Thoughts on why crowds are lower this summer so far??

[mi*vida*loca]

I was waiting on today to comment on several posts I've read in this thread. We've been visiting WDW since 1993 on a yearly basis.I remember the mornings I would wake up early, 180 days before our trip to make our dining reservations and still struggled to get some we desired. This is the first year that I've been able to get everything we want without an issue. Actually everything was available on several days. This is the first time this has ever happened in all of my years of planning. I know this is not an indicator of crowd level at parks but it does show a decline in the amount of people eating at table service restaurants. I've also noticed several special events with availability, MNSSHP has openings on everyday but Halloween night. I can remember years that I've switched airfare because the party was sold out. I was also able to book Epcot fireworks dinner which I've only been able to get a couple times in previous years. I understand people are still visiting but I do believe everything I've mentioned above is an indicator that people are going elsewhere. Price is a factor, as well as the state of the economy. When we visited early December 2021 the crowd level was insane. I mentioned to someone in our group how surprised I was with the amount of people and a cast member overheard and stated this is our stimulus crowd. We live by a small amusement park in western Pa. and spent the fourth of July walking around an empty park. This is the first year we watched fireworks and no one was around. I do believe amusement park sales are down and more people are opting for less expensive escapes. Example, we can take our 4 kids to a beach, which is free with the exception of parking, and spend a day for very little money. When the economy improves I believe the amusement park industry will pick up. Vacations are a luxury and one of the first things to take a hit when someone is struggling. I've also worked for Hilton for over 25 years and our numbers are down. People who normally spend two nights are switching to one and we are seeing less wedding blocks filled. Our rooms have doubled in price in the last two years and it reflects on our numbers. I'm not standing up for Disney and yes the price is crazy but they are on par with how the travel industry is going. We recently visited Niagara Falls for the weekend. We had almost $2000 into a weekend trip which is crazy considering the main attraction is free. Just my thought on the topic.

I think people are taking their TS budget and applying it to G+. I know that’s what we did last trip and plan on doing next trip.

My daughter is leaving 7/21 for a 5 night trip with a friend. Today she decided to do Beaches and Cream on arrival day. I told her good luck getting that ADR so close to arrival. I pulled it up and there were tons of opening that evening and for the entire week. And I’m not talking about 9pm or so. They had 4:45 up until 10 pm. There were gaps between 5-7 but still plenty of openings.

 

[disneyseniors]

I gasped at your eggs!! I am in the cities, but we have a summer place up near Superior. The difference in groceries at home and up there is noticeable. Which sucks because the wages are lower in those small towns. Mayo here - $3. Mayo there - $8 (only one I recall off the top of my head from this last journey to the store up there).

We buy a cow every few years, so I don't know about beef prices, but I get chicken for about $1.89/lb (as of today). Milk is about 2.30/gal., etc. I have always been a meal-planner and shopped frugally for groceries, so maybe that has helped? The stuff we have always eaten has not taken a hit (fresh produce, eggs, beans, grains)?

Utilities have stayed the same or gone down (also had a kid move out of state, so that probably helped). Gas is minimal most of the year since I WFH and DH only has a 7 mile drive. Escrow analysis just came in last week and our taxes and insurance went down so much that our monthly mortgage payment is going down a TON.

I know we are fortunate to not feel a pinch as other areas of the country (and state) have, but that is just why I posted originally - some people are doing better than ever, which might contribute to the influx of traveling, new cars, new houses, etc.

Oh, I see why you have better pricing. We live in N. Mn. in a smaller town so that must be why? We live in the resort/national forest area with lots of tourists. It's really awful how much prices have gone up here, but am glad you are having it better with the prices. It's odd that two cities in the same state have such different pricing.

 

[DCLMP]

I think people are taking their TS budget and applying it to G+. I know that’s what we did last trip and plan on doing next trip.

My daughter is leaving 7/21 for a 5 night trip with a friend. Today she decided to do Beaches and Cream on arrival day. I told her good luck getting that ADR so close to arrival. I pulled it up and there were tons of opening that evening and for the entire week. And I’m not talking about 9pm or so. They had 4:45 up until 10 pm. There were gaps between 5-7 but still plenty of openings.

I was surprised at all the TS reservations. We are doing Beaches and Cream and the new Mexican place at Swan and Dolphin. The other two nights will probably just eat at the pool bar. Definitely not how we used to eat at WDW, but the restaurants are too expensive now. I'm even wondering if door dash will deliver there.
Beaches and Cream is probably the cheapest WDW restaurant and normally difficult to get.

 

[RivShore]

Literally everything else (including my property taxes, insurance, etc.) has gone down in the last 4 years.

You must be the only on in all of the USA. i have never heard of property taxes going down multiple years in a row unless the town did some kind of major revaluation of properties. And auto/homeowners insurance is up everywhere, saw a stat this week that had auto insurance up 24%, on average nationwide, in the last year alone. We need an introduction to your insurance agent! LOL

 

[DCLMP]

You must be the only on in all of the USA. i have never heard of property taxes going down multiple years in a row unless the town did some kind of major revaluation of properties. And auto/homeowners insurance is up everywhere, saw a stat this week that had auto insurance up 24%, on average nationwide, in the last year alone. We need an introduction to your insurance agent! LOL

How do your property taxes go down unless the value of your house goes down? Were fixed at 0.64% and ours still goes up We are extremely fortunate in that regard. Regardless it still goes up a little every year because the value of our home goes up. Their town must have lowered rates. Good for them.

I have a job where I talk to hundreds of different people a month. I'm even inside their homes. I've I think I've only heard one person say he didn't notice inflation, but he lived alone and his opinions were more derived from politics than reality.

 

[123SA]

I think people are taking their TS budget and applying it to G+. I know that’s what we did last trip and plan on doing next trip.

I agree. I only have 2 TS booked for a 9 day trip.

 

[maxiesmom]

I agree. I only have 2 TS booked for a 9 day trip.

We have 4 for a 7 day trip. But 2 are lunches, to try and keep it a smidge less expensive.

 

[mi*vida*loca]

I agree. I only have 2 TS booked for a 9 day trip.

We are going in May and we aren’t booking many either. Three we plan on doing are because we are staying at AKL so we must try Jiko and both meals at Boma. And then one character breakfast. Other than that I don’t see us booking many more. We have to see what LLMP is going to cost us first. This is for a 9 day trip also.

 

[Minnie1222]

I also notice that ADRs are very easy to get since 2022. I usually don't book them until the night before. Even with the late booking, I still had to cancel several reservations due to their conflicts with the LL/iLL which I had no control over until the morning of.

 

[tom1944]

We are going in May and we aren’t booking many either. Three we plan on doing are because we are staying at AKL so we must try Jiko and both meals at Boma. And then one character breakfast. Other than that I don’t see us booking many more. We have to see what LLMP is going to cost us first. This is for a 9 day trip also.

I might cancel some on our 9-day trip in August. The new cost of the LLMP is a small factor but to be honest I have 2 very picky eaters that going to expensive restaurants is really just throwing money away.

I love to go out to restaurants on vacation, so I figure that is just a required cost. I do not see how I can tell my wife and SIL to not come out with us. Neither eats more than a 1/4 of their meal and if we take it back to the resort it gets thrown away in a day or 2 untouched anyway.

 

[J-Dog]

I think it's been more interesting than most threads. No one is forcing you to read it.

I disagree that it's more interesting. It the same as all the others. But thanks for the lesson on how to work this new-fangled internet thing.

 

[jeneric997]

I'm glad other people have had success with Beaches and Cream, we can't get anything for a party more than 2 on the date we want since the 60 day mark.

 

[katyjeka]

We have only traveled "through" your state but

I'm glad other people have had success with Beaches and Cream, we can't get anything for a party more than 2 on the date we want since the 60 day mark.

Not sure of your dates but I just checked and they have openings all day from September 9th and beyond. I checked for our party of 7.

 

[Kingkonig]

I'm glad other people have had success with Beaches and Cream, we can't get anything for a party more than 2 on the date we want since the 60 day mark.

We were able to get reservations day of back early June. Not sure how often this is successful, but I also see a few slots available tomorrow for lunch as well.

 

[Minnie1222]

I'm glad other people have had success with Beaches and Cream, we can't get anything for a party more than 2 on the date we want since the 60 day mark.

Check closer to your trip. Even before this new change to ADR, we were always able to dine at all hard-to-get restaurants due to people canceling at the last minute.

 

[Upatnoon]

I'm glad other people have had success with Beaches and Cream, we can't get anything for a party more than 2 on the date we want since the 60 day mark.

We have a party of 5 and I have only seen a reservation once over the past several years of trips, looking at multiple times, etc.

The strategy of looking the night before is a good one, as you can see many other "hot" places, but Beaches is certainly difficult.

 

[RivShore]

As we talked about alternatives to WDW in this thread, this list has a few that came up (and no, WDW did not make the list!):

The ‘most disappointing’ tourist attraction nationwide is in Florida. Do you agree?​

https://www.clickorlando.com/news/l...-tourist-attraction-nationwide-is-in-florida/

Rank	Attraction	Percentage of “disappointed” 1-3 star reviews
1	Kennedy Space Center	20.19%
2	Rock and Roll Hall of Fame	19.61%
3	Mammoth Cave National Park	19.38%
4	Biltmore	18.20%
5	USS Arizona Memorial	17.48%
6	National WWII Museum	15.74%
7	Art Institute of Chicago	14.89%
8	White House	14.75%
9	Country Music Hall of Fame	14.10%
10	Graceland	13.64%
11	Mount Rushmore	13.46%
12	Grand Canyon South Rim	12.71%
13	Bellagio Conservatory and Botanical Gardens	12.06%
14	Space Needle	11.76%
15	The Alamo	11.71%
16	Old Faithful	11.36%
17	The Breakers	11.35%
18	Alcatraz Island	11.09%
19	Hollywood Walk of Fame	10.71%
20	Fountains of Bellagio	9.71%

 

[Jack Kerouac]

Concerts have skyrocketed as well, but to me that’s handpicking very specific things to try and justify the cost or Disney’s massive price spike. Even taking into account inflationary impacts in general, Disney far outpaced it and I personally believe it’s starting to show the impact in attendance.

I'm not trying to handpick things to justify our Disney trips, but here are some things I've noticed over the last couple of years:
we did a long weekend in the Wisconsin Dells for my middle son's birthday in September 2022. We found Disney prices everywhere and paid out the nose for cruddy experiences. For example, an adult beverage at the resort was $30 for the first one and $18 for a refill. Got a veggie wrap at a restaurant and it was basically a tortilla with lettuce inside. Paul Bunyan's breakfast ran us about $80 for breakfast and the boys were asking for McDonald's afterwords. A 45-minute ride on the Ducks cost us nearly $80 after pre-booking and saving 20%. A coworker of mine said her husband went to the local Six Flags this year and a slice of pizza was $18. Our local zoo's (Brookfield in Chicago) pretzel and cheese cup cost more than they cost at WDW. We looked at a concert (Kacey Musgraves with Nickel Creek opening) since we wanted to see the opener and it was going to be $200+ per person.

Yes, Disney is expensive. But everything is expensive. I think everyone else realized that if people pay Disney prices at WDW, they will pay Disney prices everywhere.

When I hear others tell me what they pay to eat out at a certain restaurant, or do something fun with their kids, I just think, wow, I should go to WDW and save some money.

If there was a place that provided awesome entertainment AND value, everyone would do that. Let us know if you find it. I have three kids, so I could definitely use some help on saving money. But make sure to tell me before you tell anyone else. I don't really like crowds.

 

[lovin'fl]

I think folks now going in the cheaper seasons (which also are less hot times) and just taking kids out of school. Disney needs to maybe change up seasons as summer will now be the off season.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

As we talked about alternatives to WDW in this thread, this list has a few that came up (and no, WDW did not make the list!):

The ‘most disappointing’ tourist attraction nationwide is in Florida. Do you agree?​

https://www.clickorlando.com/news/l...-tourist-attraction-nationwide-is-in-florida/

Rank	Attraction	Percentage of “disappointed” 1-3 star reviews
1	Kennedy Space Center	20.19%
2	Rock and Roll Hall of Fame	19.61%
3	Mammoth Cave National Park	19.38%
4	Biltmore	18.20%
5	USS Arizona Memorial	17.48%
6	National WWII Museum	15.74%
7	Art Institute of Chicago	14.89%
8	White House	14.75%
9	Country Music Hall of Fame	14.10%
10	Graceland	13.64%
11	Mount Rushmore	13.46%
12	Grand Canyon South Rim	12.71%
13	Bellagio Conservatory and Botanical Gardens	12.06%
14	Space Needle	11.76%
15	The Alamo	11.71%
16	Old Faithful	11.36%
17	The Breakers	11.35%
18	Alcatraz Island	11.09%
19	Hollywood Walk of Fame	10.71%
20	Fountains of Bellagio	9.71%

A gambling website probably isn't a place where I'm going to look for tourist attraction ratings. I did think someone in the comments of the article you posted had a valid point that using a software program that only looks for key words won't pull the best results.