Thoughts on why crowds are lower this summer so far??

[focusondisney]

I see your point. I agree that you shouldn't use crowd calendars. They'll never do the thing you're looking for.

The concerns I'd have with trying to measure "feels crowded" as a metric are:

• It's subjective. Everyone's definition is going to be different. And everyone's definition is correct -for that one specific person.
• It's almost impossible to measure on a daily basis to determine crowds. Other than standing in the parking lot and asking people as they leave, I don't know how we'd do it.

So we can't measure it, and even if we could, nobody would agree on what it means. That is not a great basis for analysis.

The advantage to using posted wait times are that they're objective and easy to verify.

They're not perfect - they're often wrong in ways that limit how accurate an analysis can be.

But they solve those two issues, and they allow us to do at least some analysis work.

I guess I didn’t explain myself well. I didn’t say I don’t believe or use the crowd calendars. I’ve subscribed to your site for as long as I can remember & understand how & why your calendar operates the way it does. Not everyone does tho so I’m just pointing out that the parks may sometimes feel different than the numbers listed. It’s just something to keep in mind when using the site. The information you provide is objective data, but other factors, like Disney playing with staffing or people mingling in walkways play a part in how crowded the parks feel. For me personally, I like knowing your numbers, even if the park feels more crowded to me than they show. It helps me set my expectations when I see that number going forward. Plus I love participating by submitting posted & my own timed wait times.

 

[123SA]

It does not appear to be just isolated to a handful of dates. It looks like those hours are cut for all of July starting on July 8th for the rest of the month (in MDE app at least).

I'm not sure, but I think these are just the standard hours...Disney hasn't updated the hours beyond July 13th.

 

[focusondisney]

I am heading to DW in a couple weeks and just noticed that parks like MK (9AM-10PM vs 8AM-11PM) and AK (9AM-6PM vs 8AM-7PM) are going to start opening and hour later and closing an hour earlier then entire week I am there. Is that normal for July or is it related to the smaller crowds this summer? I figured that might reduce hours at AK during the shorter daylight months but July is definitely not one of those.I am now starting to feel like I am going to be rushed each day instead of having those extra 2 hours.

Even tho Disney has posted park hours thru the middle of August, those are really just the standard generic hours. There is never a guarantee of how many hours the parks will be open, the fine print always says they are subject to change. However 2-3 weeks out, the hours are adjusted & often extended, usually for about a week at a time. MK will probably be extended, especially on the weekend. Although if admissions are down as much as some are reporting, it is always possible they won’t be extended.

 

[RivShore]

A good example is Cedar Point. Their passes and food plan has gone up maybe $30 in that time.

For $400 I have access to all Cedar Fair parks, meals covered twice a visit plus parking. It's been that price since 2019.

WDWs lowest cost single park ticket has actually gone down since 2019 - $125 vs $109.

 

[RivShore]

I'll believe it when I see it. I don't think see them lowering the price on anything.

So what about the lower price i noted above and the discounts they have been offering the last few months?

 

[Jrb1979]

WDWs lowest cost single park ticket has actually gone down since 2019 - $125 vs $109.

How often can you get it at $109? My point was more about many saying every entertainment has gone up in price. Many ignore the regional parks that have kept roughly the same ticket and pass prices since 2019

 

[RivShore]

How often can you get it at $109? My point was more about many saying every entertainment has gone up in price. Many ignore the regional parks that have kept roughly the same ticket and pass prices since 2019

They simply don't have the pricing power (demand) to do that. You don't think they would if they could?

 

[Jrb1979]

They simply don't have the pricing power (demand) to do that. You don't think they would if they could?

I disagree. Maybe not all of them could but their definitely is some parks that could easily raise their prices to that.

I'm looking at Knotts, Cedar Point, Dollywood, Busch Gardens, and Magic Mountain.

3 million visitors over 4-5 months is nothing to scoff at. If they were open year round they would probably have close to 10-12 million visitors. There is demand just it's not how they run those parks. They are run with the goal to get as many people into the parks as possible. The more people in the parks the more food and merch they sell. That's where the money is.

 

[RivShore]

I disagree. Maybe not all of them could but their definitely is some parks that could easily raise their prices to that.

I'm looking at Knotts, Cedar Point, Dollywood, Busch Gardens, and Magic Mountain.

3 million visitors over 4-5 months is nothing to scoff at. If they were open year round they would probably have close to 10-12 million visitors. There is demand just it's not how they run those parks. They are run with the goal to get as many people into the parks as possible. The more people in the parks the more food and merch they sell. That's where the money is.

Right, so in the company's view, demand has not exceed supply, so the price stays lower. Once they actually hit capacity they will have no choice but to increase prices...or disappoint a lot of people they turn away at the gate.

 

[Minnie1222]

I disagree. Maybe not all of them could but their definitely is some parks that could easily raise their prices to that.

I'm looking at Knotts, Cedar Point, Dollywood, Busch Gardens, and Magic Mountain.

3 million visitors over 4-5 months is nothing to scoff at. If they were open year round they would probably have close to 10-12 million visitors. There is demand just it's not how they run those parks. They are run with the goal to get as many people into the parks as possible. The more people in the parks the more food and merch they sell. That's where the money is.

I would not want to be at a park where the goal is to pack as many guests as possible. Personally, I would rather serve 10 people spending $100 each than 1000 people spending $1 each. That's why high-end boutiques lock their doors when they have a big spender in the store. Disney is obviously not a high-end boutique, but they still need to maintain a decent park experience. Having too many guests would diminish the experience.

 

[Minnie1222]

How often can you get it at $109? My point was more about many saying every entertainment has gone up in price. Many ignore the regional parks that have kept roughly the same ticket and pass prices since 2019

Yes, and please focus on the word regional. Disney and Universal are world-famous destinations. The local parks are not in the same league.

 

[focusondisney]

How often can you get it at $109? My point was more about many saying every entertainment has gone up in price. Many ignore the regional parks that have kept roughly the same ticket and pass prices since 2019

Beyoncé & Taylor charge way more for a concert than a local band. Major league baseball teams charge more than the AA minor league team. Regional parks aren’t in the same league as Disney & Universal. I’ve been to Cedar Point. It’s fine for hard core coaster fans, but it doesn’t compare to WDW.

 

[greeneyedchick]

It does not appear to be just isolated to a handful of dates. It looks like those hours are cut for all of July starting on July 8th for the rest of the month (in MDE app at least).

That's weird. When I worked at Disney 20+ years ago, we had the longest hours in the summer. I guess this is part of their cost cutting It also makes the parks feel more crowded since the same number of people have less hours in which to spread out.

 

[123SA]

That's weird. When I worked at Disney 20+ years ago, we had the longest hours in the summer. I guess this is part of their cost cutting It also makes the parks feel more crowded since the same number of people have less hours in which to spread out.

Again, the revised hours haven’t been released yet for most of July. It is very annoying when you are planning. I don’t think it is time to start worrying that July hours have been cut

 

[Shughart]

I am heading to DW in a couple weeks and just noticed that parks like MK (9AM-10PM vs 8AM-11PM) and AK (9AM-6PM vs 8AM-7PM) are going to start opening and hour later and closing an hour earlier then entire week I am there. Is that normal for July or is it related to the smaller crowds this summer? I figured that might reduce hours at AK during the shorter daylight months but July is definitely not one of those.I am now starting to feel like I am going to be rushed each day instead of having those extra 2 hours.

They extended the hours just a few days before our June trip trip (6/12-6/16) so it looks like they didn't last long.

 

[balance_jow]

Even tho Disney has posted park hours thru the middle of August, those are really just the standard generic hours. There is never a guarantee of how many hours the parks will be open, the fine print always says they are subject to change. However 2-3 weeks out, the hours are adjusted & often extended, usually for about a week at a time. MK will probably be extended, especially on the weekend. Although if admissions are down as much as some are reporting, it is always possible they won’t be extended.

Thanks for that detail! This is only our third trip to DW over the last 10 years but the first that I have started to plan our days more than a week before our stay.

 

[mickeyluv'r]

The willingness to take kids out of school, especially in older school years, is different since the pandemic. I have friends and family who are teachers and school administrators, and they all talk about this.

As a parent myself, I feel it too. We used to hem and haw over whether to take the kids out for longer than a few days in a given school year.

Now? It’s much more like, “What’s two weeks in the grand scheme?”

Part of this shift may be due to pricing at WDW and other spots. It isn't just the cost of Disney, but also air travel and offsite hotels. When I look at the price of holiday week airfare it is sky high compared to 2019 prices. (no pun intended)

Disney's pricing has also gotten out of hand for holiday weeks. No way are WDW's mediocre buffets worth $60 per person. Some folks here might say they are, but a great many feel WDW's prices are out of hand.

Many people are also waiting for Epic Universe to open.

 

[mickeyluv'r]

If @RivShore was handpicking, then please cite some actual data to the contrary. For my own interests, I would love to know about some comparable tourist or entertainment venues that have NOT increased in price dramatically in recent years.

State and National Parks? FL has quite a few that are well worth visiting!

Looking at Chicago:
Chicago Cultural Center, Lakefront Trail, walking the Riverwalk, Clarke house Museum, Garfield Park Conservatory, Jane Addams hull-house Museum

Looking at DC:
the Smithsonian Museums, tour of Kennedy Center (and the free Millennium Stage performances), Library of Congress, National Archives

Looking at Orlando
Cornell Fine Arts Museum, tour Orlando Brewing, visit Disney's Wildness Preserve (now has 3 miles of trails), see the ducks at the Peabody Hotel, Zora Neal Hurson Museum, Silver Springs glass bottom bout tour (this plus multiple other natural springs parks are close to free to enter), Fort Augustine, Harry P. Leu gardens, Charles Hosmer Morse Museum,

Looking at Oklahoma City
45th Infantry Division Musuem, Centennial Land Run Museum, Will rogers Park, Charles B. Hall Airpark

 

[mickeyluv'r]

So what about the lower price i noted above and the discounts they have been offering the last few months?

Discounts =attendance is soft.

 

[mickeyluv'r]

Looking at Major League Baseball teams:

Orioles tickets can be had for under $20. Kids up to age 9 can get in w/paid adult.
Marlins' tickets can be had for $11-15. Sneiors can get 2 free tickets to some games!

That's just looking at 2 teams. Many of the above games also have free giveaways too, like get a free shirt. Or get 4 tix+4soft drinks+4 hot dogs+4popcorns for $44.