This may be a harsh article but.... AK Rivers of Light problem.

[AngiTN]

I do wonder whether there will be standing room outside the seating area from around the lake -- seems like it from the types of photos people have been able to get of construction...even the area in Asia seems to have views to the lake...it was all walled up the last time we were there, so I could be completely wrong about that, but I have a hunch more than the 5000 seated will be able to see the show

No one knows for sure but it's not likely you can see much from outside the seat area. There are projections and such that are designed to be seen from the seats. Those outside the seats will have either back or obstructed views.

I haven't been following this closely, but my understanding is that this is an after-dark-only show, right? So you can't schedule one before about 9:00pm in the summer. Assuming a very quick turn around of the theater and the show, three shows a night means keeping AK open until what - 11:00? Even later? That makes little sense to me.

Why is that? What's wrong with AK being open till 11:00?

 

[sunshinemelody]

Agree. But if this show is a hit and it can generate $$$ then why not stay open? The costs to keep AK open later are probably lower than other parks since less rides and lower lighting etc.

Remember they are adding a night safari and once Avatarland opens that park can fully support long hours, maybe out of necessity.

Just reporting what has been put out there including some screen shots off of MDE that were caught before they were pulled. Why would Disney even type those lines into MDE if it weren't going to be an option at times.

So three viewings, eh? Sweet.

 

[AngiTN]

Also, I'm sorry but I found major fault in the article when he stated that Frozen attractions are not opening on time. While he did point out the info didn't come from Disney I don't see how it can be said to not be on time when no time has ever been given.

And that's just a start. This is more of an opinion piece than one having much fact in it

 

[HopperFan]

FWIW,these are RoL times I have seen mentioned when(if) there are "Three Show Nights"(not to be confused with Three Dog Night).
8:30pm- 9:45pm- 11:00pm

And am sure the 11 pm would be handled like the late shows of Nemo and Lion King (even the final show at MNSSHP) where the park is officially closed at that point so by time the show is over it will be only those guests walking out of the park.

 

[AngiTN]

And am sure the 11 pm would be handled like the late shows of Nemo and Lion King (even the final show at MNSSHP) where the park is officially closed at that point so by time the show is over it will be only those guests walking out of the park.

Plus over in HS they have F! shows that start at or even just after park closing. It can work at AK too.

 

[HopperFan]

I do wonder whether there will be standing room outside the seating area from around the lake -- seems like it from the types of photos people have been able to get of construction...even the area in Asia seems to have views to the lake...it was all walled up the last time we were there, so I could be completely wrong about that, but I have a hunch more than the 5000 seated will be able to see the show

That is what I'm curious about too, will they allow it or structure it in a way you can't.
- I can not imagine them letting folk gather on the bridge between Asia and Dino to watch, more like CMs with wands to keep moving.
- Last I remember on the Dino side past the bleachers it is heavily landscaped with trees. For aesthetics I don't see that changing.
- Many pictures are coming via zoom from Flame Tree BBQ Pavilions and I totally seeing them as restricted during shows.
- Kinda leaves Asia which has a few pockets but again many trees and bank landscaping is there.
They may do some clearing .... but I wouldn't expect it. I guess my question is will they let you stand along walls behind the seating?

 

[Love Tink]

Why is that? What's wrong with AK being open till 11:00?

I didn't say anything was "wrong" with that. What I said was it didn't make sense to me.

It doesn't make sense to me because it is a park that regularly closes at 5:00 or 6:00pm. It is a park that, currently, is open after dark very rarely. It is a park built around attractions - the safari, the conservation station, Discovery Island Trails, Maharajah, Pangani, the Oasis, Flights of Wonder - and atmosphere and entertainment experiences that are currently not enjoyable after dark. (I know there is a night safari coming.)

Keeping a park open four or five extra hours, with only a handful of things to do, makes no sense to me. Paying all those extra operating costs in the hopes of trapping people there to shop/eat doesn't seem like a workable idea. I believe most people will either leave and come back just for the show, or not be willing to stay at all. So you'll be running a ghost town from dusk until 11:00.

The opening of Avatarland would certainly help with this. People may be more willing to stay, or hop in late, if there are more then five or six things to do. Maybe.

 

[DisneyWishes14]

Comparing the delay of RoL to the on-time opening of Harry Potter in CA is comparing apples to oranges. RoL is a show. Harry Potter is a whole park. And putting in the same breath as the resignation of Tom Staggs is also ridiculous. The delay of RoL is a blip on Disney's radar. Why in heaven's name would they open a show that isn't ready yet? Should they have announced a date? No, probably not. But possibly putting performers, CM's and animals at risk (and possibly the audience, too) or putting up a show that isn't ready yet and thereby disappointing guests is simply not a good idea. And I also think capping attendance to 5,000 was a GREAT idea! Yes, the location automatically created that cap, but basically creating an immediate demand for the show because seating supply is limited is genius. Hello - dining package revenue! VIP dessert party anyone? Three shows a night so 5,000 people see it while the others going to later shows mull around and spend money in the park, genius. So, will they miss out on that revenue while the show is delayed, sure. But they never increased park hours so they won't be losing money, either. I really don't see this as a big fail on Disney's part. Yes, they disappointed many guests who had planned to see the show in late April and May, but if it's not ready, it's not ready. Many a Broadway show has not opened ontime due to technical difficulties and I see this as akin to that.

We are DIS shareholders and I can tell you pretty confidently that the delayed opening of RoL did not affect DIS stock price AT ALL. The Staggs announcement, perhaps, but they have time to sort that out. He had a vote of no-confidence from the board and has no film experience, so that was probably a good move.

 

[HopperFan]

I didn't say anything was "wrong" with that. What I said was it didn't make sense to me.

It doesn't make sense to me because it is a park that regularly closes at 5:00 or 6:00pm. It is a park that, currently, is open after dark very rarely. It is a park built around attractions - the safari, the conservation station, Discovery Island Trails, Maharajah, Pangani, the Oasis, Flights of Wonder - and atmosphere and entertainment experiences that are currently not enjoyable after dark. (I know there is a night safari coming.)

Keeping a park open four or five extra hours, with only a handful of things to do, makes no sense to me. Paying all those extra operating costs in the hopes of trapping people there to shop/eat doesn't seem like a workable idea. I believe most people will either leave and come back just for the show, or not be willing to stay at all. So you'll be running a ghost town from dusk until 11:00.

The opening of Avatarland would certainly help with this. People may be more willing to stay, or hop in late, if there are more then five or six things to do. Maybe.

Disagree. I've been in the AK after dark and it is stunning and I love it. And I've always had lots of other folks there doing the same.
It doesn't matter that the animal attractions are closed since there are rides open and new things opening.

- Having a Nemo and LK show at around 5-6 pm fills in the early gap for some.
- Dinosaur
- All of Dinoland
- It's a Bugs Life
- Expedition Everest (great at night, I'd ride a few times)
- Kali River will be open after dark
- Nighttime Safari
- Extend some Character Meets
- Tree of Life Night time Awakening - show many times a night only after dark
- Discovery Island Carnivale - night time dance party
- Harambe Wildlife Parti - after sun set celebration with many entertainers
- Tiffins, Tusker House, Yak & Yeti and RFC for TS meals
- Am sure multiple QS and walk up bars will be open
- Shops will be open

And Rivers of Light. And someday Avatarland.

More than enough to keep guests busy the entire evening and not get everything done.
They are doing what it takes to make AK a destination park for the full day, and it's hopping value just jumped.

 

[Sevey13]

Plus over in HS they have F! shows that start at or even just after park closing. It can work at AK too.

Agree. Fool is a fairly click-driven website, and obvious in their attempts. They want to sell you their prediction packages for buying and selling stocks. They use articles like this to seem more 'in the know' about companies so you buy their products.

 

[Love Tink]

Disagree. I've been in the AK after dark and it is stunning and I love it. And I've always had lots of other folks there doing the same.
It doesn't matter that the animal attractions are closed since there are rides open and new things opening.

- Having a Nemo and LK show at around 5-6 pm fills in the early gap for some.
- Dinosaur
- All of Dinoland
- It's a Bugs Life
- Expedition Everest (great at night, I'd ride a few times)
- Kali River will be open after dark
- Nighttime Safari
- Extend some Character Meets
- Tree of Life Night time Awakening - show many times a night only after dark
- Discovery Island Carnivale - night time dance party
- Harambe Wildlife Parti - after sun set celebration with many entertainers
- Tiffins, Tusker House, Yak & Yeti and RFC for TS meals
- Am sure multiple QS and walk up bars will be open
- Shops will be open

And Rivers of Light. And someday Avatarland.

More than enough to keep guests busy the entire evening and not get everything done.
They are doing what it takes to make AK a destination park for the full day, and it's hopping value just jumped.

I have highlighted what the vast majority of people would consider attractions available after 6:00. And anyone who had been at the park all day would have already done all of these. Only a couple have much re-ride appeal once you've done them once or twice between 9:00 and 6:00. I agree with you that Everest is definitely a ride that people want to do over and over.

You and I disagree about whether character meets (of which all but one take place outside) will be extended.

You list a bunch of nighttime parties and restaurants and shops. We disagree about whether shops and restaurants being open is an enticement for the regular visitor. That's okay.

 

[Jing]

My snap reaction to the delay is that this is based purely on suppressing labor costs until the end of the quarter to give Shanghi a couple of weeks to start earning their keep. It's a lot of staffing money to expand park hours, particularly with only one additional food option to draw revenue. This delay also provides time to evaluate the success of the extra hours experiences at MK to see if the AK night options are a viable up-charge event.

I can see the delay going to the end of the fiscal year in September, though I really hope not.

 

[Acerad]

Having been a Motley Fool subscriber in the past, they tend to "churn" news that has been out in other venues

 

[hakepb]

When AK opened, it had regular, 3 hour evening EMH (and that was before EE)

To me, AK closing during daytime is the weird thing. Guests have been subjected to AK weirdness far too long.

 

[saskdw]

Space dictated size.

Now if the rumors are correct and there are multiple shows a night, then it's not a problem. It might actually work for them.

Say 8000-10,000 are sitting at Fantasmic, with the crazy long lines and the forever exit ... Disney is making no money other than some initial concessions and it seems most are not buying. Yes you might have two shows but the lost time before and after the show impact.

Now you have 3 shows a night with 5000 at each (which would not surprise me based the looks of the anticipated show). While 5000 are watching, 10,000 will be in the park eating, drinking, shopping and doing some rides. Many will be purchasing dining packages to insure seating since theater is smaller. Also will be much easier to load and unload.

Even with costs to run the show, I will guess their cash flow from folks in the park waiting for their show could far outweigh it ... especially if the theater is mostly dining packages and fastpass ... because standby lines don't spend money.

Agreed.

Also, with in a year Avatarland will open and there will plenty to absorb people at AK at night.

The seating for this show will only be an issue for the first little while as everyone wants to see it for the first time. In the grand scheme of things for the long term future of AK I believe it will be fine.

 

[JimmyV]

Keeping a park open four or five extra hours, with only a handful of things to do, makes no sense to me.

[Bolding has been changed from the original post.]
I agree with your statement. But the solution isn't to refuse to keep the park open late. Instead, the solution is to keep the park open with the majority of things still open. As HopperFan points out, the majority of things at AK are not time sensitive and can be operational at 9:00 p.m. just as easily as they are at 9:00 a.m.. And increasing operating hours will provide Disney incentive to add more stuff to the park. Right now, there is little need to add more since the park closes at 5:00. There are just the right number of attractions and shows to fill the 8:00-5:00 hours. But if the park operates from 8:00 a.m. (or 9:00 a.m.) to 9:00 p.m. (or 10:00 p.m. or later), then there will be greater need to add more stuff to fill the time. Avatar is a good start. But let's not stop there.

 

[Sevey13]

My snap reaction to the delay is that this is based purely on suppressing labor costs until the end of the quarter to give Shanghi a couple of weeks to start earning their keep. It's a lot of staffing money to expand park hours, particularly with only one additional food option to draw revenue. This delay also provides time to evaluate the success of the extra hours experiences at MK to see if the AK night options are a viable up-charge event.

I can see the delay going to the end of the fiscal year in September, though I really hope not.

That assumption is based on an incorrect premise that Operations and Capital budgets affect each other. They do not. Any Fortune 500 businessperson will tell you that the two budgets are kept very, very separate. Cutting hours of a worker in operations budget will have zero impact on large-scale improvements in capital. It's just not how businesses work. There may be a reason, but we can't blame Shanghai for this one.

 

[ArwenMarie]

My snap reaction to the delay is that this is based purely on suppressing labor costs until the end of the quarter to give Shanghi a couple of weeks to start earning their keep. It's a lot of staffing money to expand park hours, particularly with only one additional food option to draw revenue. This delay also provides time to evaluate the success of the extra hours experiences at MK to see if the AK night options are a viable up-charge event.

I can see the delay going to the end of the fiscal year in September, though I really hope not.

This is my guess too. It's a huge jump to convert DAK to a nighttime park in terms of costs, especially in the beginning. They may also be working out additional upcharge details as is the current trend.

 

[hakepb]

That assumption is based on an incorrect premise that Operations and Capital budgets affect each other. They do not. Any Fortune 500 businessperson will tell you that the two budgets are kept very, very separate. Cutting hours of a worker in operations budget will have zero impact on large-scale improvements in capital. It's just not how businesses work. There may be a reason, but we can't blame Shanghai for this one.

Budgets are kept seperate, but I have seen major business events causing large changes in committed projects (including not opening a facility after physical construction and initial hiring completed... It just got put on hold for a year.

 

[Jing]

That assumption is based on an incorrect premise that Operations and Capital budgets affect each other. They do not. Any Fortune 500 businessperson will tell you that the two budgets are kept very, very separate. Cutting hours of a worker in operations budget will have zero impact on large-scale improvements in capital. It's just not how businesses work. There may be a reason, but we can't blame Shanghai for this one.

Yes, they are different budgets with different pots of money, but decisions regarding one park may be based on the success and failure of another. I realize the internet went nuts with accusations US parks getting cuts to fund Shanghi under the umbrella of Disney Parks Division. Just because Disney did not confirm or deny (why would they?) does not mean it is not a factor.