This marriage is doomed

[Sagginit]

Several years ago, I worked with a young woman who constantly wailed about her $29,000 in credit card debt and how she couldn't keep up with the minimum charges. Then one day she walks into work bragging about a purse that she had just bought for $350; apparently she "couldn't pass it up" as it was a $1000 purse. At that point, I just wanted to grab the purse out of her hands and beat some sense into her head with it. I get the urge to do that quite often these days.....

i work in NYC and a coworker recently said ONE of her CC's min payment is higher than her rent. i wanted to lunge for her wallet and cut up her cards. she keeps buying things off amazon that she needs. what she needs is a budget.

 

[kittengal13]

Young and naive, $50 a week would be $1100 a year, still may be awhile before they get a house. $19000 with a car loan may be they only spent a few thousand to get the apt the way they wanted it. Kids today want instant gratication and a lot don't want to work for it. DD's boyfriend told my mom he would be making 200,000 a year when he graduates (of course he is only 16 and clueless) we're all saying sign me up!

$50 pw is £2600 a year

 

[eliza61]

We have been married almost 13 years. For the first 11 1/2 I was completely against budgeting but DH wanted a budget. Now I have come around but not quite where DH would like. I'm working on it. I have done well in some areas and bombed others. I will continue to try. DH and I never felt doomed.

That's my point and thank you. The post says this girl is married a little under 1 YEAR Jeez louise. I'm glad I wasn't held up to dis standards my first year of marriage. Me and my dh saved NOTHING. We had no kids and we lived in an apartment with no plans on buying a house. We were two income, no kids Manhattanites. so I guess by budget board standards my marriage also would have been doomed.
Yet some how miraculously we managed to do quite well. As we got older, we learned new things, we communicated, we set priorities.

people change, they learn. the letter writing said she is very willing to try it for 6 months. Maybe she'll end up seeing the value of the budget. Maybe she won't. maybe they will come to a compromise. Maybe once on the budget she'll see where her money is going. I know once I started tracking my money it came to me as quite a shock, how much we spend on eating out.


did every one here fall out of the womb knowing how to be the perfect mate. Maybe it's the word "doomed" that irks me.

 

[crisi]

We have been married almost 13 years. For the first 11 1/2 I was completely against budgeting but DH wanted a budget. Now I have come around but not quite where DH would like. I'm working on it. I have done well in some areas and bombed others. I will continue to try. DH and I never felt doomed.

I don't have a budget. I had a budget early on when we didn't have much money - but we haven't had a budget in more than 16 years.

My budget is to check my statements every month and see if my net worth went up or down. If it went up, good, no worries. If it went down, we want to know why (a few months ago, it was a new car - expected. Last month, the market took a dive, it will come back - its almost there already). When it goes down because we overspent on unplanned things, we go on a spending diet for a bit and I remind my husband not to spend money he doesn't need to spend.

But I'm frugal and he has learned that I'm happier when the net worth goes up every month - so he has gotten MUCH more careful than when we married almost twenty years ago. Since money is not tight, and our needs are easily met each month, no need for a budget.

I don't know if this woman's marriage is doomed - she could have a very understanding spouse. I do think that her learning curve is going to be long and difficult, because from the quote, it sounds like she doesn't really get the difference between a "need" and a "want" and is willing to take on debt for those not-really-needs. If she doesn't manage to make it through the learning curve, either her marriage ends, or her husband ends up paying in terms of not being able to retire because there is still credit card debt and they haven't saved enough.

 

[eliza61]

I don't have a budget. I had a budget early on when we didn't have much money - but we haven't had a budget in more than 16 years.

My budget is to check my statements every month and see if my net worth went up or down. If it went up, good, no worries. If it went down, we want to know why (a few months ago, it was a new car - expected. Last month, the market took a dive, it will come back - its almost there already). When it goes down because we overspent on unplanned things, we go on a spending diet for a bit and I remind my husband not to spend money he doesn't need to spend.

But I'm frugal and he has learned that I'm happier when the net worth goes up every month - so he has gotten MUCH more careful than when we married almost twenty years ago. Since money is not tight, and our needs are easily met each month, no need for a budget.

I don't know if this woman's marriage is doomed - she could have a very understanding spouse. I do think that her learning curve is going to be long and difficult, because from the quote, it sounds like she doesn't really get the difference between a "need" and a "want" and is willing to take on debt for those not-really-needs. If she doesn't manage to make it through the learning curve, either her marriage ends, or her husband ends up paying in terms of not being able to retire because there is still credit card debt and they haven't saved enough.

true but the way I read it was that they were very young. I think a lot of factors go into it. first there are still days when I spend on things that are wants.
I'm redoing my kitchen and since I love to bake now, I'm splurging on a professional oven. Originally I wanted an Aga stove but now I'm deciding between a wolf or a Viking. Now truthfully does anyone NEED a 5,000 dollar range? No probably not. technically my kitchen is fully functional but at 19 years old it's ugly and outdated. I won't have to charge but it
will put a nice dent in the emergency savings.

like I said, if I measured my early marriage up against what seems to be dis standards I assure you, you guys would have said probably the same thing. We spent our salaries. We traveled, we went to live in Lisbon for a year, we went out to dinner almost nightly. Heck, I didn't buy pots until I was 30. I remember at my bridal shower I got pans from my husbands family, my dads girlfriend wanted to know what they were for?

Now maybe it's a different age but I certainly did not stress about budgets and will I have enough for retirement at 21, 22, or 25
We didn't start savings for our retirement well into our 30's and as a previous poster said, at no time did we feel "doomed" or that we would not be able to retire. Our priorities changed and we loved one another so we simply sat down and made mutual decisions together. which this young lady seems to be willing to do (she did say she is going to try a budget for 6 months)

I have conflicting thoughts on all the news that we're going to be eating dog food in our old age. Many of my friends are retired or starting second careers. No they are not wealthy, the live pretty modestly, travel once or twice a year, drive Toyotas and a few luxury cars. use their credit cards (I'm assuming they pay them off but it's only an assumption) NO one is on welfare, no one is on food stamps and no one is living in fear of not having enough money. So I've always wondered about these reports that say we'll need millions of dollars in order to retire. now every know and then I think of what would have happened if I had joined my jobs 401K plan when I first started but I don't obsess over it.

My sister retired from the NYC police department, started a second career in interior design and promptly purchased a million dollar house in Hudson valley. Yep, she perfectly happy with the fact that she'll have a mortgage until she dies but she's happy, healthy, works when she wants, and lives off her policemans pensions and her husbands pension. they are still to young to collect ss.

oh well, all hypothetical situations. I'm probably just a cockeyed optimist.

 

[ICF]

.

 

[disykat]

eliza61, you seem to be missing one big point. You HAD money, you weren't spending money you didn't have. There is no comparison between you and and the couple in the OP people called doomed. Money simply wasn't an issue for you and didn't need to be. In the OP the wife has spent 19K that she didn't have and felt justified doing so. Now she's upset because her husband wants to "budget," which presumably means live within their means - something they aren't currently doing. Money IS an issue for them, and they haven't been communicating about it.

 

[crisi]

There is a huge difference however between a want you can afford (a Viking stove - I'd go for the Aga myself, a friend has one and its wonderful - skip the Viking, the repair guy comes out for my sisters all the darn time). You can afford a "need" that is really a want. someone putting $19k on credit cards can't.

And young is actually more of a red light to me. In my experience, those that needed matching furniture when they were young and newly married have the worst finances in their late 40s early 50s where we are now, because then they needed to redo things as fashion changed. Those of us with a sheet thrown over a used couch and a coffee table that once was a door had the money for Aga stoves.

 

[NotUrsula]

Eh, I got married at 28, and we both had a heck of lot of student loan debt. The debt I had was my cheap car and a fair amount on credit cards; it was all expenses from moving cross-country twice in one year for my first two postgraduate jobs. The minute we got married we set to work paying it all down.

I distinctly remember putting cash in envelopes devoted to groceries, so that we wouldn't succumb to the urge to impulse-buy at the supermarket. Back then we limited our grocery spending to $50 a pay period. We allowed ourselves one evening out per month, though more often than not we spent it at the cheap-seats movie theatre. We no longer budget like that, but we did it until we could buy a house, 5 years into the marriage.

Why did we have this foresight? We both had SAHM's, and fathers who died young, so we were both on our own financially from our teens. By the time that we married after 10 years on our own, we had learned to live within our means.

 

[eliza61]

eliza61, you seem to be missing one big point. You HAD money, you weren't spending money you didn't have. There is no comparison between you and and the couple in the OP people called doomed. Money simply wasn't an issue for you and didn't need to be. In the OP the wife has spent 19K that she didn't have and felt justified doing so. Now she's upset because her husband wants to "budget," which presumably means live within their means - something they aren't currently doing. Money IS an issue for them, and they haven't been communicating about it.

No I get that. sorry for being so confusing. My main point is that from what I read this is a young girl newly married and young. So basically your saying she's horrible because you don't like that she got herself in debt? and that makes her different from the people on the other thread?

When we first got married we made awful stupid money mistakes. Now you're right we were not in debt but that wasn't from any great effort on our part but mainly from sheer dumb circumstances. When we grew up and got married, credit was simply not the "thing" to do. but as I've said many times we did not save a dime, we spent what we earned. Once again by your standard, my husband should have run for the hill also.

Sure she felt justified because now in this day and age. shopping is a competitive sport. young adults really believe they need iphones, cars at 17 and disney trips. We" ve taught this lesson (society) for the last 30 years.
It's like teaching a person to be a thief and then getting upset when they start stealing!

How many times do people here swear by Dave Ramsey. Oh if you only do Dave Ramsey you will be saved, yet some how this young lady (who said she is willing to try the budget thing) is condemed. Sorry I just find that and these boards to be so hypocritical especially since doesn't Dave himself say he went bankrupt and had horrible credit card debt when he first started out?

My point is this.
She got herself into a financial bind, UHM like 200 million other people and supposedly like the enter thread of debt dumpsters but because you guys don't like the way she did it (redecorating her apartment) she's "doomed".

Financial literacy is taught, we learn it. for the last 30 years we have not taught that lesson to our youngesters. when I say we, I mean society in general because every one here is going to swear up and down that their kids are financial geniuses.

Maybe like ursula, in 10 years they will have embraced a new life style.

i wish there was a way to check up on her in 6 months. I wonder how many people here would congratulate her if she came back and said she's embracing the budget life (I'd put good money on zero)

In the interest of harmony I will change my view.

yes she is a spoiled selfish brat and a she and people like her are the reason the economy is so mucked up. Hubby better look for a divorce lawyer pronto.

 

[eliza61]

So let me ask every one a question.

From the tone of the thread, anyone who gets themselves in debt for whatever reason (it seems here there are acceptable reasons and non acceptable reasons) is doomed to be a drag on society and will never be able to retire

Why advise them to change or follow DR at all? Heck, if she's newly married and the marriage is kaput for because she has 19K already. If the guy will never be able to retire if he stays with her? why change?

sort of like telling an overweight person, no matter what you do, diet exercise getting healthy, you're done for and will be obese any way.


I guess I'm not seeing some tragic divorce case waiting to happen. I see a young newly married couple who made some stupid mistakes (wonder if hubby helped) like a gabillion other young married couples and who hopefully will learn the lesson probably painful and go on to not be a drag on society and live probably a fairly normal boring life.

I see myself and my dh who like I said managed to some how get our financial life in order, make some stupid mistakes, get in debt, get out of debt, have kids, start a business (whew talk about obtaining debt) save a little, save a lot, live within our budget, blow the budget all to hell and back.
never once doomed, never once on the government dole, never once entertain the thought we were not ging to retire.

 

[HM]

I think the problem is that she doesn't see that there IS a problem. She doesn't see that a debt of $19,000 is not normal.

I don't think they are doomed either, but I think they have a rough road ahead if she doesn't see that a budget is going to be necessary to get out from under their debt.

 

[BenbowInn]

Hopefully they will find a happy medium. My husband and I went though the same thing. He's more of a saver and I'm more of the "can't take it with you" type so we meet halfway. Of course I'm not the type to think debt is okay, except or a mortgage. We drive used cars and are debt free besides our house which is much smaller and cheaper than we can "afford".

Basically I have no problem spending money on DS, especially things like vacations and enrichment activities. I think they are only little once and i would rather have memories than a high bank account. DH is more of a saver but sees my point. He says he's just glad I spend money on family/household things and organic foods rather than tanning beds, hair salons and fast food like the wives of all his male friends, lol.

So if the couple can find a medium they will be okay. But I can see the wives point. Nothing is guaranteed in life and I would much rather have a happy life (and I don't mean buying things brings happiness, but sometimes nice things or experiences can improve how you feel) than live in a way that I'm uncomfortable with just to have a lot of money that my husband don't want me to spend.

 

[BenbowInn]

And to add... I do not agree with going into debt for anything other than a house. Car included. We are happy with our Old vehicles and smallish house and the money we save from those two things goes directly into savings. I just think people can get too caught up with "living debt free" that they don't really live and die with nothing more than a lot of money someone else will inherited and blow.

 

[DVCmom4]

We don't have a budget but we have an agreement that before we buy something over $200 we will talk about.

We have been married for 22 years and have 4 children. We own our home, both cars, and no cc debit as well as nice nest egg and retirement funds. I haven't worked in over 18 years. I think you need to talk no matter what!

 

[NotUrsula]

I think the problem is that she doesn't see that there IS a problem. She doesn't see that a debt of $19,000 is not normal.

I don't think they are doomed either, but I think they have a rough road ahead if she doesn't see that a budget is going to be necessary to get out from under their debt.

Exactly. The husband recognizes that they are in over their heads and need to do something about it, but the wife is refusing to get on board with that and make the effort.

As to people with debt being a drag on society, never be able to retire, etc. ... nah, I don't think so at all. However, what I do think (and statistics back me up) is that the most common reason that marriages fail is fundamental disagreements over handling money matters. It is the most common reason for arguments to erupt, and incessant arguing is the most common reason people give up on a marriage. (Infidelity comes in second, believe it or not.)

If the wife came back after a while and said that she realized that her husband was right and embraced the need to budget, I'd be yelling "bravo!" Young and stupid is one thing, but bullheaded selfishness and blind denial is something else again. The first step to fixing mistakes is to be big enough to admit that you made them.

 

[keri125]

I have just scrolled through the responses and didn't read the linked article, so I apologize in advance if this has already been covered. I have a couple of thoughts - 1. This bride has already shown that she is open to change and compromise by agreeing to write the letter and follow the recommendations for at least six months. She has not said she will not change or is refusing to accommodate her husband, just that she is hoping she won't have to do so. And 2. From the responses here it seems like the young groom agreed to the 19,000 debt as well - did the full article say she had that debt before they were married? If he agreed to the car/credit card, he is as responsible for the debt as she is. It seems a lot of posters are blaming her for not following his lead, but it seems to me he went along with it and now is trying to back peddle. Which is fine, but kind of unfair to just expect her to go along with it, especially if they were on the same page before, even if it was irresponsible. However, given that she has shown a willingness to try something new gives me hope for them as a couple.

 

[disykat]

Exactly. The husband recognizes that they are in over their heads and need to do something about it, but the wife is refusing to get on board with that and make the effort.

As to people with debt being a drag on society, never be able to retire, etc. ... nah, I don't think so at all. However, what I do think (and statistics back me up) is that the most common reason that marriages fail is fundamental disagreements over handling money matters. It is the most common reason for arguments to erupt, and incessant arguing is the most common reason people give up on a marriage. (Infidelity comes in second, believe it or not.)

If the wife came back after a while and said that she realized that her husband was right and embraced the need to budget, I'd be yelling "bravo!" Young and stupid is one thing, but bullheaded selfishness and blind denial is something else again. The first step to fixing mistakes is to be big enough to admit that you made them.

I agree. People saying her marriage is "doomed" just meant that they won't make it if they don't get on the same page financially. I don't think anyone meant she was without the possibility of "redemption" if she made changes.