This just really annoys me!

[Goofycampers]

True we are living longer, but that is thanks to better nutrition, antibiotics and other medical developements that weren't available years ago. We also have soaring levels of diabetes and cardiac disease which has been directly linked to obesity. Many people- my MIL is one of them, can actually reduce their blood sugar levels to norm by loosing weight. I don't see how you can correlate the 2, sorry.

 

[wvjules]

Good Lord, I'm not attributing that to obesity; I'm pointing out that in spite of soaring obesity levels, we are still living longer than at any time in history.

And that is due to science and advances in medicines, access to better healthcare, etc.

 

[jrmasm]

I haven't read the whole thread but one of the things that is bugging me are all the people commenting negatively on the "size 0 people." The clothing industry has forced what I view as regular sized people into tiny sizes. I am 5' 5" and weigh 115 - 120 pounds. I certainly don't consider myself overweight but I am by far not the skinniest person on the planet. I have pretty much been this size since high school. Back then, I wore medium sized shirts and size 6 or 8 pants. Fast forward 30 years and I am wearing size 2 or 4 pants. The fours are generally way too big in the waist. Unfortunately, the smaller sizes have too much of a teeny bopper look for me so I have to stick with the "larger" sizes (2's or 4's). A small top now hangs on me in most cases yet I used to wear a medium. I have an awful time finding clothing that looks appropriate for my age that fits nicely.

My point being, the clothing industry forced me into these sizes. My height and weight haven't changed. For those commenting on the "size zero people" understand that most would not have worn a zero 20 some years ago.

Doesn't matter, you're still high maintenance.

 

[LisaR]

Doesn't matter, you're still high maintenance.

Well that's a given!

 

[palavra]

True we are living longer, but that is thanks to better nutrition, antibiotics and other medical developements that weren't available years ago. We also have soaring levels of diabetes and cardiac disease which has been directly linked to obesity. Many people- my MIL is one of them, can actually reduce their blood sugar levels to norm by loosing weight. I don't see how you can correlate the 2, sorry.

My point is that people are living longer with Diabetes and managing it well. Maybe 60 years ago, Diabetes was less common. It was also much more deadly. Also, 60 years ago, people died from Polio and other diseases that have been all but eradicated today. Medicine today allows people to mamage diseases and live normal lives.

There are many people who don't fit the healthy eating/exercise=health profile. I'm one of them. I have PCOS which causes me to have high blood pressure, increased blood sugar levels and higher tryglicerides. I've had these problems since my teens, and I am 44 now. During the years I lived overseas, in my 20's and 30's, I ate very healthy, walked everywhere and weighed about 115lbs. Did this make me healthy? No. My blood sugar, pressure and triglycerides were still high. I know that in my case, my health is genetic. My grandmother (who lived to a ripe old age of 81) had PCOS and all the high levels I have, and I also have a cousin who has PCOS. So, I guess you can see that we get really frustrated when people tell us to "just lose weight or exercise more."

Another example is from my mother's family. There are three girls in the family. My mother and her older sister have been overweight most of their lives. They are now 68 and 70 years old, and neither has had significant health problems. Their younger sister has been slim most of her life. She is now battling life threatening breast cancer.

I guess you could say that it really irritates me when people look at health in isolation, as though just losing weight or exercising more is going to for sure make you healthy and live a long life.

 

[FireDancer]

And that is due to science and advances in medicines, access to better healthcare, etc.

It is also due to a lower infant mortality rate. The infant mortality rate up to the early 20th century dragged down the average life span.

 

[sparks19]

I'm overweight... obese really. I've recently started a new lifestyle and am working to be at a healthier weight... but I hope when I get there I won't start judging everyone who is the size I am now. It's not an easy thing to do especially if you don't believe you CAN do it. Sometimes you need to have a "come to jesus" moment before you really realize what's happening to you. I just don't want to look at everyone that's a larger size than me and think "WEll I did it... why aren't you". it's not my business.

I don't begrudge women that are in a smaller size than me or ones that are a larger size than me. I don't why anyone would.

But I must say I do begrudge the lady on my Dancing with the Stars work out video when she says "I really feel the burn in my abs" NO YOU DON"T lol don't patronize me

 

[disneyquestions]

It was size 16 not 20. And maybe she should have left out the parts about health and taking care of one's self and one's family?
\/QUOTE]

Actually, it wasn't me that came up with the size 16 - it was the size of the mother in the article.

The point is that size 16 is "real." Real women come in all sizes, and the fashion industry seems to think we're all 5'10 and 100 lbs. "Real" women are 2, 8, 16, 24, whatever.

Your right, no matter what size you are, you are real. However, when do you see a magazine, or tv show or anyone referring to someone who is a size 6 as a "real woman." The fashion industry has labeled this "real woman" logo for plus sizes. Its like when you shop at (I think) Macys plus dept. (a place I used to shop in for years) its the WOMANS department. So if your an adult woman, and a size 6, you can't shop in "womens"??? As if they are saying that only "Real woman" are plus size. Personally, I think its to make women (someone I used to be, remember) feel better about it, and again, to make it OK; the norm. I would see WOMENS DEPT and think, "Ooh, this isn't for fat girls (what I was), its for WOMEN. This is what is supposed to happen to our bodies after having kids."

And I was a 18-20 at my biggest, and it was BIG. I'm only 5'1 and at the time, I didn't think anything of it. I knew I was over weight, obese even, but didn't think there was anything I could really do about it - untill I just did it. And thats what upsets me. I think there are lots of people out there that just figure "Well, this is who I am, this is what it is. Can't do anything about it." They are unhappy with it, but again, don't think its possbile to change it. And when you see these advertisments for "real women" meaning plus size, it almost confirms these thoughts. I know part of this will be totally taken out of context, but I'll say it here, that I realize that not EVERY woman is like this. There are percentages.

And another thing - that genetics line is such BS. Give me a break!!! My mother, father, and 4 brothers and sisters are all overweight. I totally could have used the genetics "out" to give up on weight loss, but you don't have to. Just a thought....

 

[disneyquestions]

And you can still die at an early age from cancer and other factors that are not attributed to healthy eating or exercising. Research is proving more and more that genetics plays a huge role in an individuals long term health.

Well heck, lets all go out, buy 20 cartons of cigs, a BUNCH of vodka, and go at it. I mean, whats the use anyway, we COULD just die of cancer tomorrow anyway.

 

[Liberty Belle]

It was size 16 not 20. And maybe she should have left out the parts about health and taking care of one's self and one's family?
\/QUOTE]

Actually, it wasn't me that came up with the size 16 - it was the size of the mother in the article.



Your right, no matter what size you are, you are real. However, when do you see a magazine, or tv show or anyone referring to someone who is a size 6 as a "real woman." The fashion industry has labeled this "real woman" logo for plus sizes. Its like when you shop at (I think) Macys plus dept. (a place I used to shop in for years) its the WOMANS department. So if your an adult woman, and a size 6, you can't shop in "womens"??? As if they are saying that only "Real woman" are plus size. Personally, I think its to make women (someone I used to be, remember) feel better about it, and again, to make it OK; the norm. I would see WOMENS DEPT and think, "Ooh, this isn't for fat girls (what I was), its for WOMEN. This is what is supposed to happen to our bodies after having kids."

And I was a 18-20 at my biggest, and it was BIG. I'm only 5'1 and at the time, I didn't think anything of it. I knew I was over weight, obese even, but didn't think there was anything I could really do about it - untill I just did it. And thats what upsets me. I think there are lots of people out there that just figure "Well, this is who I am, this is what it is. Can't do anything about it." They are unhappy with it, but again, don't think its possbile to change it. And when you see these advertisments for "real women" meaning plus size, it almost confirms these thoughts. I know part of this will be totally taken out of context, but I'll say it here, that I realize that not EVERY woman is like this. There are percentages.

And another thing - that genetics line is such BS. Give me a break!!! My mother, father, and 4 brothers and sisters are all overweight. I totally could have used the genetics "out" to give up on weight loss, but you don't have to. Just a thought....

What do you suggest they call it? Fat Girls? They shouldn't belittle women who are overweight (besides, who'd shop there). Making someone feel good about themselves helps them to treat themselves better, not worse.

I'm overweight. I don't care what they call it (I don't like fat, because brings bad memories and overweight is a more neutral term). They could call it "Ideal woman" "princess size" "sexy size" whatever. It doesn't make me feel any better about being overweight. It doesn't make me feel it's ok.

But, like I said, the better I feel about myself, the more I work out, eat better, etc. If I feel ugly and "what's the use", I'm not going to do those things.

 

[NikitaZee]

I think there are lots of people out there that just figure "Well, this is who I am, this is what it is. Can't do anything about it." They are unhappy with it, but again, don't think its possbile to change it. And when you see these advertisments for "real women" meaning plus size, it almost confirms these thoughts.

This is what I read out of it as well. If I had acne, I'd still like myself as a person, but I'd do whatever I could to get rid of the acne. The same with too much extra fat. I can't really believe that anyone actually likes their fat, it's the attitude above of 'this is me, I'm great anyway'. Yeah, you are great anyway, nobody is saying you are not, but fat is not great! Nobody is their fat! Why get defensive on behalf of 'fat', KWIM? My husband smokes. I love him, he's great! But I don't love his cigarettes!

 

[NotUrsula]

Besides all that, why is it not OK to say that it is idiotic of the fashion industry to imply that all heavy women deserve is sackcloth (and that all that thin older women deserve is yet another endless variation on the black sheath)?

Any other industry and we would be laughing up our sleeves at how foolish that is from a business standpoint: if there is a need that you can fill, why not make money filling it? Well, apparently because they feel like they can make more money if they give "average-sized" shoppers the illusion that the store isn't "cheapening" itself by selling to "those people".

There is a prejudice in much of the higher-end retail clothing industry that says, essentially, let WalMart have them, because we would rather die than let ourselves be associated with THOSE people, and besides, they shouldn't let themselves be seen in public so all that they really need are sweats and tees. So, higher-end mfrs. who don't want to die and do make clothing for "those people" end up having to sell these sizes online ONLY, as if they were selling child porn or undies for transvestites.

There is an parallel here for men's fashion. Most men's stores routinely carry waist sizes up to about 46 or so, which is comparatively much larger than a size 14 would be. What don't they carry? Short sizes. And why not? Because in that retail sector there is a belief that "average" men don't want to associate themselves with a store that sells to short men. The analogy is that a short man is just as much of a fashion pariah as a fat woman.

This whole discussion reminds me of an episode of Mad Men called "The Fog." In the story, Pete had the ad account for Admiral Television, and they were complaining that sales were flat. He did some research and discovered that their best sales were in predominantly African-American areas, so he suggested making it a point to go after that market. The clients recoiled, because they didn't want to be known as a favorite company of black folks. This is just the same kind of prejudice all over again: all about maintaining "image" even when it doesn't align with reality. (Ah, there's that word real again.)

PS:

The fashion industry has labeled this "real woman" logo for plus sizes. Its like when you shop at (I think) Macys plus dept. (a place I used to shop in for years) its the WOMANS department. So if your an adult woman, and a size 6, you can't shop in "womens"??? As if they are saying that only "Real woman" are plus size.

Bless your heart -- you've misunderstood their intent entirely. What they are saying is that "woman" is a euphemism for frumpy old lady, and that old ladies are most likely to be fat. Because after all, don't you know, all femailes over the age of 18 are flattered when you imply that they are younger than they really are.

What do you suggest they call it? Fat Girls? They shouldn't belittle women who are overweight (besides, who'd shop there). Making someone feel good about themselves helps them to treat themselves better, not worse.

Why do our clothes need to be divided into size departments anyway? The current categories, "Juniors", "Misses" and "Womens" are meant to imply AGE, not size; but the tailoring difference is based on sizing and vertical body measurements, specifically the distance between your crotch and shoulder, the bust size, and the distance from your waist to the base of your neck. Ask any thin elderly woman what the problem is with apparel retail and she'll tell you that everything in her size is "too young" for her. Menswear doesn't have this particular distinction. Yes, they often have "Young Men's" departments, but the sizing isn't different, the fit is, and the clothing sold in that department is always casual. If a man wants to buy a suit he can do so in the Suits Department no matter how old he is, or how thin or heavy. (Well, there are size limits, but they are actually based on reality; the sizes available in most men's suits departments range from 32 up to 46. That's a waist size range of 14 inches, while the standard for Misses sizing from 2-14 covers only a range of 7 inches in hip size, from 34 to 41.)

I want store design parity with the men. I want the clothes to be grouped only by the formality of the style, and I want a 14 inch size range in each group, further differentiated by Short, Medium, and Tall on the labels for height. Just put those size label discs on the racks and let me figure out which end I need to start on.

 

[PrincessKsMom]

Does anyone take into account why people are overweight? Some of it might be genetics, some of it might be lack of exercise and poor eating habits, and sometimes it's emotional. Crappy marriage, sick spouse/parent/child, loss of job, abusive relationship (spouse/parent) or just generally being unhappy in ones life. Do you really think I don't know I'm fat? Do you really think I'm that blind? Sometimes life just beats you down enough that you give up. Sometimes you don't think you'll ever be worthy of being happy. So instead of beating people down more, do something nice for someone. Pay it forward. Smile at a stranger today, say something nice to someone or just be polite and remember to say please and thanks. Tell someone you like their blouse, shoes, hair.

Jez, we dump a load of crap on our kids about not bullying, yet we pass insensitive comments and judgments on internet boards and think it's okay? And WTH gives anyone the right to think they're better than someone else? Because you're thinner that makes you a better person? Because I'm fat makes me a bad person? Compassion is something that starts at home. Why don't we try that route first 'cause I can tell you judging isn't going to work.

 

[Pigeon]

While I'm not crazy about the label "real women" just applying to one segment of the female population, I see the point. The reality is that the average dress size of the American woman is a 14, which is the point where a lot of stores stop carrying clothing. There are a whole lot of size sixteen women out there and oddly, they expect to be able to purchase clothing for their immense and disgusting selves.

So many stores now expect women in larger sizes to order online, which is beyond irritating. Or, if they haven't managed to cut out those sizes altogether, they carry a tiny selection of clothes tucked into the worst real estate available in the store. Which, for some of you is way more than those women have any right to expect.

While I do get the point that a few of you are trying to make that larger women should be punished by not being able to buy decent looking clothing in larger sizes, maybe we could talk manufactures into not making any clothing at all, or only making the most hideous garments out of sack cloth. Then all these large women would come to their senses and realize that their fellow women think they are "not OK," are going to corrupt the minds of children by their very existence, and will drop dead on the spot, thus freeing up space for the slender.

 

[disneyquestions]

What do you suggest they call it? Fat Girls? They shouldn't belittle women who are overweight (besides, who'd shop there). Making someone feel good about themselves helps them to treat themselves better, not worse.

I'm overweight. I don't care what they call it (I don't like fat, because brings bad memories and overweight is a more neutral term). They could call it "Ideal woman" "princess size" "sexy size" whatever. It doesn't make me feel any better about being overweight. It doesn't make me feel it's ok.

But, like I said, the better I feel about myself, the more I work out, eat better, etc. If I feel ugly and "what's the use", I'm not going to do those things.

Did you really just say that? That is just plain

Its sad how people can't take THEMSELVES out of the picture, and just see the post for what it is. Its about marketing, its about what its doing to the people its marketed to. No one (meaning me) said anything to anyone about them being "fat and ugly" yet there are MANY posts from people saying that this is what was said. If thats the way you feel about yourself, just from reading this, getting all defencive, I think its time to get some help and do something about it, for yourselves.

 

[lustergirl]

There are a lot of skinny rich people that I would not call healthy...

EXACTLY: to name a few:

Angelia Jolie
Courtney Love

They look anoxeric. I am a plus size women, size 14. This is terrible that in today's age that would be considered overweight. I am very active and have a lower cholesterol level then my skinny husband.

 

[mhsjax]

ITA with the bolded. If you are not happy with yourself at your current weight, you are not going to be happy 20 pounds thinner or 20 pounds heavier.

A person that is unhappy with themself and depressed about weight is NOT going lose weight in a healthy manner if at all.



I have always fed my kids healthy foods. Always had lots and lots of healthy snacks around for them. Two sons--constantly trying to figure out how to GAIN weight. They were constantly told they weren't big enough for their sport. But yet, both extrememly talented in what they do. One daughter--constant fight to make sure she doesn't think she needs to LOSE weight. But yet, she is a good size and is healthy.

Its ridiculous. Why not just stop worrying about a size and just worry about healthy?? Healthy haibts make a healthy body. Let the weight fall where it may.


As for the people judging each other. Men are no where near as judgmental of each other as women. Women constantly tear each other down.

YOu can't put everyone in the not being happy with themselves, just as so many of you are saying that you can't say that all overweight people are unhealthy.

I have lost weight 3 times. All except one was due to child, birth All the healthy way, I ate grilled chicken and fish, whole grains, cut out sugar. Lots of veggies, some fruit. Pretty healthy if you ask me. i also started working out, how isn't this healthy. I also kept the weight off for about 8 years before I got pregnant the first time. I wasn't happy with my 60 pound weight gain with each of the kids. But I lost the weight after each After I lost the weight I was very happy with myself, it boosted by energy, my self esteem, everything about me. YOu can't say that if you aren't happy with yourself over weight then you won't be happy after you lose the weight that is absurd. Just another excuse not to lose weight as far as I am concerned.

 

[diznygirl]

Did you really just say that? That is just plain

Its sad how people can't take THEMSELVES out of the picture, and just see the post for what it is. Its about marketing, its about what its doing to the people its marketed to. No one (meaning me) said anything to anyone about them being "fat and ugly" yet there are MANY posts from people saying that this is what was said. If thats the way you feel about yourself, just from reading this, getting all defencive, I think its time to get some help and do something about it, for yourselves.

Right, it's just a marketing gimmick.

It doesn't invalidate you as a person, or what you've accomplished. And yet here you are, so many pages later, insisting that it's accusing you personally of not being "real."

My advice to you: "If thats the way you feel about yourself, just from reading this, getting all defensive, I think its time to get some help and do something about it, for yourselves."

 

[Liberty Belle]

This is what I read out of it as well. If I had acne, I'd still like myself as a person, but I'd do whatever I could to get rid of the acne. The same with too much extra fat. I can't really believe that anyone actually likes their fat, it's the attitude above of 'this is me, I'm great anyway'. Yeah, you are great anyway, nobody is saying you are not, but fat is not great! Nobody is their fat! Why get defensive on behalf of 'fat', KWIM? My husband smokes. I love him, he's great! But I don't love his cigarettes!

I can see how, especially if someone is overweight from childhood, they are "their fat." It's psychological.

 

[disneyquestions]

Does anyone take into account why people are overweight? Some of it might be genetics, some of it might be lack of exercise and poor eating habits, and sometimes it's emotional. Crappy marriage, sick spouse/parent/child, loss of job, abusive relationship (spouse/parent) or just generally being unhappy in ones life. Do you really think I don't know I'm fat? Do you really think I'm that blind? Sometimes life just beats you down enough that you give up. Sometimes you don't think you'll ever be worthy of being happy. So instead of beating people down more, do something nice for someone. Pay it forward. Smile at a stranger today, say something nice to someone or just be polite and remember to say please and thanks. Tell someone you like their blouse, shoes, hair.

Jez, we dump a load of crap on our kids about not bullying, yet we pass insensitive comments and judgments on internet boards and think it's okay? And WTH gives anyone the right to think they're better than someone else? Because you're thinner that makes you a better person? Because I'm fat makes me a bad person? Compassion is something that starts at home. Why don't we try that route first 'cause I can tell you judging isn't going to work.

Wow, I'm so sorry that your having such a tough time. Really, I am. Life is not easy, trust, me. I've been depressed, I've been medicated for it, etc - I know what its like.

But can you, or anyone else, please explain to me how my point of this thread (labeling plus size clothing as clothes for "real women", making it seem OK and almost giving permision to be unhealthy (again, not the entire population of humanity am I talking about here, but a good percentage) in any way is saying that "thin women are BETTER than over weight" or that "fat people are bad people" or bullying?