This is one reason we need Tort Reform

[rickybobby]

All of this is nonsense. Phenergan (Promethazine) is a commonly used anti-nausea medication. It used to be given by IV push (the method used here), but is now still given that way but is recommended to be dilute as it is a somewhat caustic medication (easily irritates veins). The dose is a usual dose, the route is okay.
The mistake was on the part of the nurse, not the physician. Sounds like the IV was in the wrong place, artery instead of the vein. This is easy to spot by a decent nurse when placed. Once it is in and clamped, it is not easy to spot.
A jury made up of at least some medical professionals would have seen right through this, and placed the blame where it lay, but nurses don't have deep pockets. MD's and of course the cruise line are seen as the financial targets.
http://www.foxnews.com/health/2018/...to-workers-arm-amputation-lawsuit-claims.html

 

[mnrose]

The lawsuit was against the CRUISE LINE, which hired both the doctor and the nurse. Read the complaint. The doctor was not sued. Whether the doctor or the nurse made the mistake is immaterial. It's like when a worker at Disney screws up, and the affected party sues Disney. And, what exactly would be the "right" compensation for the loss of an arm by a young, healthy person? Are you content to live without one of your arms? Even YOU acknowledge a mistake was made and that a competent nurse would not have made the mistake. The mistake led to loss of an arm. Not like "ooops" my bad. He lost an ARM. I think the compensation is entirely appropriate for the injury caused by NCL and it's agents. They are responsible....they should pay.

 

[MillauFr]

Why cite that case? These are far more supportive of your position

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-news/7-most-ridiculous-lawsuits-nike-3238861

 

[nephthys43]

Why cite that case? These are far more supportive of your position

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-news/7-most-ridiculous-lawsuits-nike-3238861

but the mcdonalds lawsuit wasn't frivilous. they were selling coffee near the boiling point. against food safety regs. she asked for just her medical bills to be covered. they refused and offered her like $800 or something. they should have just covered her medical and been done with it.

 

[allison443]

According to the article link to the decision, NCL’s own medical director admitted the standard of medical care was breached. Also this was an arbitration award, not a jury verdict. Employers are generally responsible for employees’ negligence in the course of their employment; I don’t think tort reform would change that.

 

[DLgal]

I read about this case and honestly think where the cruise line went wrong was denying this crew member speedy medical treatment stateside, since they COULD have had him airlifted off the ship due to the ship's proximity to the US, but did not. Clearly the amount of time that passed led to the complications endured. In that way, the cruise line was liable.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

The patient had compartment syndrome, which is a surgical emergency, and should've been med-flighted off the ship right away if the attending doctor (and/or nurse) on the ship didn't know how to recognize or deal with it.

This can and does happen rarely during the administration of certain peripheral IV medications and other products (like blood, parenteral nutrition, etc.) due to infiltration and extravasation. Fluid leaves the vein and travels out into the cellular space, or compartment, causing inflammation and pressure build up to the point that the tissues (nerves, muscles, blood vessels) in the space die.

"Massaging" the limb for over 24 hours just wasn't enough; the patient needed surgical intervention. It's very unfortunate that the doctor wasn't able to do even a minor surgical procedure right there on the ship that might've relieved some of the pressure while they were evacuating him. If they could've done that AND gotten him to a hospital in time, amputation might not have been necessary.

So who do you blame for hiring incompetent medical staff?

BTW this patient was likely in a tremendous amount of pain for those 24hrs. They may have been giving him something like morphine to mask it.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

"A few hours later, Loncar’s right forearm turned black and blue. But instead of immediately evacuating him from the ship via helicopter, an expensive exercise, the medical staff massaged the affected area for 24 hours and waited until the ship reached the next dock."

The patient was a waiter on the ship; so an employee, not a guest.

What I would want to know if I were involved in this case is this:

Who made the decision that he was not going to be med-evacuated?

Was it the doctor, who didn't recognize the need?

Or was it an "administrator" who didn't want to have to justify the large cost for such an undertaking?

For that we would need to hear what the doctor said about the incident. Were there any records of that?

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

The lawsuit was against the CRUISE LINE, which hired both the doctor and the nurse. Read the complaint. The doctor was not sued. Whether the doctor or the nurse made the mistake is immaterial. It's like when a worker at Disney screws up, and the affected party sues Disney. And, what exactly would be the "right" compensation for the loss of an arm by a young, healthy person? Are you content to live without one of your arms? Even YOU acknowledge a mistake was made and that a competent nurse would not have made the mistake. The mistake led to loss of an arm. Not like "ooops" my bad. He lost an ARM. I think the compensation is entirely appropriate for the injury caused by NCL and it's agents. They are responsible....they should pay.

How DARE you interrupt our dis rants with reality!!!!

 

[smokeyblue]

All of this is nonsense. Phenergan (Promethazine) is a commonly used anti-nausea medication. It used to be given by IV push (the method used here), but is now still given that way but is recommended to be dilute as it is a somewhat caustic medication (easily irritates veins). The dose is a usual dose, the route is okay.
The mistake was on the part of the nurse, not the physician. Sounds like the IV was in the wrong place, artery instead of the vein. This is easy to spot by a decent nurse when placed. Once it is in and clamped, it is not easy to spot.
A jury made up of at least some medical professionals would have seen right through this, and placed the blame where it lay, but nurses don't have deep pockets. MD's and of course the cruise line are seen as the financial targets.
http://www.foxnews.com/health/2018/...to-workers-arm-amputation-lawsuit-claims.html

I disagree with you. There was negligence all the way around. The man received just compensation.

BTW . . . The hospital I worked at stopped allowing Phenergan IVP 10 years ago.

 

[cedricandsophie]

Many people want tort reform, whatever that means to them, until they are the injured party. Then they want as much as they can get. This specific instance was hardly cause for a rant about tort reform. All steps along the way were negligent and serious permanent injury occurred. The judicial system did exactly what It was meAnt to do, award a person who was permanently and seriously damaged because of someone else’s negligence. My husband is an honest and ethical personal injury attorney. He has turned awAy potential clients when he thought there was no merit and helped many others get an award when deserved.

 

[Happyinwonerland]

We give 25 mg of IV phnergan regularly at my hospital, but we dilute it in a small bag of saline run it in slowly. While 25 is a high dose, it isn't an unusual dose by any means. The assertation that it should have been 6.25 mg is strange to me. I don't think I have ever administered that dose.

I disagree with the lawyer's argument that zofran is the more appropriate choice, as it can cause lethal heart rhythms.

 

[Christine]

but the mcdonalds lawsuit wasn't frivilous. they were selling coffee near the boiling point. against food safety regs. she asked for just her medical bills to be covered. they refused and offered her like $800 or something. they should have just covered her medical and been done with it.

I am currently studying the McDonald's case in a business law course I'm taking. I also was "duped" by the media campaign on this and thought the coffee case was crazy; until I actually read what happened.

Yes, McDonald's serves coffee about 40 degrees hotter than industry standards. Hot enough that if it gets on your skin you will suffer third degree burns. That's a full burn through every layer of your skin down to the muscle. The customer suffered these burns all over her thighs and groin area. Had she gone to Dunkin Donuts and had the same thing happened, she would have merely scalded the top layer of skin. She also asked McDonald's to pay her $20,000 medical bills. They scoffed at her. She then went to get her $20,000 through a lawyer and the courts then assigned punitive damages in the millions for McDonald's behavior and setting their coffee temps way outside the norm for coffee. The customer was assigned 20% of the blame (adding creamer to coffee while sitting in her car) and had her award reduced by that much. After it was all done, they went on a media campaign smear to discredit the customer.

 

[amcnj]

I am currently studying the McDonald's case in a business law course I'm taking. I also was "duped" by the media campaign on this and thought the coffee case was crazy; until I actually read what happened.

Yes, McDonald's serves coffee about 40 degrees hotter than industry standards. Hot enough that if it gets on your skin you will suffer third degree burns. That's a full burn through every layer of your skin down to the muscle. The customer suffered these burns all over her thighs and groin area. Had she gone to Dunkin Donuts and had the same thing happened, she would have merely scalded the top layer of skin. She also asked McDonald's to pay her $20,000 medical bills. They scoffed at her. She then went to get her $20,000 through a lawyer and the courts then assigned punitive damages in the millions for McDonald's behavior and setting their coffee temps way outside the norm for coffee. The customer was assigned 20% of the blame (adding creamer to coffee while sitting in her car) and had her award reduced by that much. After it was all done, they went on a media campaign smear to discredit the customer.

Thanks for the details on the Mc Donald’s case. Just wondering, what was the opinion of the class as to the assignment of fault? Did they agree that the customer was 20% to blame?

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

And, what exactly would be the "right" compensation for the loss of an arm by a young, healthy person? Are you content to live without one of your arms?

When I worked for the insurance companies some states had death and dismemberment coverage on the auto policy. I couldn't tell you the actual figures as I've forgotten them but suffice to say there was an exact dollar amount placed on limbs including different amounts for different fingers.

Not saying it's necessarily the same as the case this thread is talking about but the reality is at least in terms of coverage some things do assign a specific dollar value. That's not to say it stops someone from attempting to collect more I just don't know the rate of success.

 

[Christine]

Thanks for the details on the Mc Donald’s case. Just wondering, what was the opinion of the class as to the assignment of fault? Did they agree that the customer was 20% to blame?

Most people did not believe she had any fault as they felt that pulling over, parking the car, and adding cream and sugar was not irresponsible behavior.

 

[Boardwalk Jedi]

I'm not sure why you think a jury of medical professionals would have seen things differently. My first thought was who is overseeing both doctor and nurse in terms of evidence based practice and the nurse's scope of practice? My hospital hasn't done IV push phenergan in quite a while and I really don't see why this man even needed an IV. Why not oral medication or IM? Was he so bad that he needed fluids? If he was that bad, the doctor should have been as involved as the nurse.

I guess you could say I "see right through this". I'm seeing a company (and cruise lines are known for cheap employment) that cut corners in terms of hiring and medical standards.

 

[slpeters]

Tort reform would probably stand a better chance if even half of it's most vocal advocates actually understood what it was...

 

[_19disnA]

^^ I agree. All of the those saying medical costs are too high don't seem to grasp that costs are the result of a LOT of different factors (malpractice insurance and the chance for huge judgements is one example) and has to be looked at holistically. It is naive to think the govt can just pass a few laws and magically costs will go down...........doesn't work that way in the real world. Especially when you hear a lot of people talking like they have no basic grasp of how insurance even works.

 

[Klayfish]

Don't even get me started on the need for tort reform. Cases like this are unusual, and somewhat outside of the scope of the norm, so not going to make much comment on it. My comment about the need for tort reform is more from your "routine" stuff like minor auto accidents, slip and falls, etc... There is an entire industry built around highly unethical plaintiff attorneys and their doctors who do nothing but use people as pawns to line their pockets with your money, and give their "clients" a small cut of it. It's beyond ridiculous.