This is just so sad,,and makes me ask WHY would someone do this?? I don't call it 'playing'??

[okeydokey]

I have never once, ever... promoted any conspiracy theories.
Just sayin'
But, hey...
Have at it!!!! Just too funny!
Nice to see you guys are still so predictable at doing what you do.
Kudos!

And, let's see what you can do with using semantics to keep it going here!
Should be almost to that next phase in the mode of operation.
That should be interesting!
Nice way to take a thread completely off topic, in order to pull of the agenda.

Nope, you don’t get to imply the family killed their baby for the money and then get all hurt and offended that you were called out for saying such a repulsive thing. You blame other people for always ganging up on you instead of taking an actual look at your own words and behavior.

 

[Imzadi]

r.e. -- my bold --

Adults of sound mind AND reasonable intelligence DO STUPID THINGS ALL THE TIME and often fall back on the "Hindsight is 20/20" proverb.

Problem is this WAS SOMETHING other people could foresee and that is why reasonable people with at least 2 properly functioning brain cells don't do.

I think that’s exactly what they are saying though. No one would ever think anyone would hold a child out a window of an 11 story building so the cruise line had no cause to have warning signs.

Yes, people DO do stupid things all the time. Sometimes, they are lucky that nothing happened while they were being stupid.

Michael Jackson dangled his son, Blanket, out a window, too. But, for all of 3 seconds. He got a clue how stupid it was when Blanket started wriggling and he pulled him back in.

The grandfather held Chloe out or next to the window for 34 seconds. He even changed arms when one arm got tired or something. You'd think he would have gotten a clue during those 34 seconds, "Maybe this isn't a good idea."

I mentioned several pages back that NYC now has a law in which metal window gates must be installed in apartment windows housing children. Yet, I lived here decades before that law was in place. A few times, here and there, not often, there would be news stories of a child falling out a window. I think almost all of them said the child was unattended at the time, or the adult walked into another room for something. While there was no video footage at the time, usually there is some neighbor/witness who could have seen if someone had been dangling a child out the window before falling.

We even have ticker tape parades and sometimes the news footage does show people dangerously hanging out the windows or kids perched next to the window sill, leaning out, lucky they didn't topple, headlong over. No one perched their kid with their feet on the window sill, as PP described, so they could fall right through. We've never needed a sign warning people that children can fall through an open window.

It's ridiculous to blame RCI for not having signs. I read once that laws are designed for people to have a reasonable level of intelligence. Thus RCI's lawyers/PR people stating their comment as such, "no reasonable person could have foreseen." Laws aren't designed to try to out-think every possible scenario a STUPID person comes up with.

 

[Imzadi]

There's gotta be something wrong with that guy.

Ya think?

People behave in (predictable) patterns all the time. For example, when people say, "You're not acting like your self today." Or, "Darn! I knew DD would forget her homework project if I didn't leave it by the front door and remind her to take it."

It's because people behave in patterns.

I keep wondering if the parents, who are a cop and an former prosecutor, didn't already have previous clues that the grandfather sometimes has extreme lapses in judgement, especially in regards to their daughter's safety? Like there were times where they might have had to say, "Hey Gramps, don't let Chloe play next to the road like that. And when the ball goes into the middle of the road, don't let Chloe chase after it to pick it up. A car could come speeding by and not know she's there." Situations that an average, reasonably intelligent human knows better. But not this grandfather. (Sorry, the, "he never had kids of his own," excuse doesn't work. Because even most teens, generally know better.)

I keep wondering if, maybe they decided on a cruise because they thought, "What could happen to Chloe with Grandpa on an enclosed vessel? She should be safe there." It was reasonably enclosed. He PICKED HER UP, dangled her out and held her next to an open window, not designed for such purposes.

And I keep wondering what was the conversation, right before it was decided that the Grandfather would go off alone with Chloe? Did the parents have any apprehension then? The parents went off to have brunch or lunch without Chloe. Yet there was also the wife of the Grandfather. And the paternal grandparents. If any one of them had said, "Gramps, I'll go with you & Chloe," this whole situation might not have happened. Sure, like Michael Jackson dangling Blanket out the window for 3 seconds, they might have missed that. But for 34 seconds, they would have eventually noticed that and told the Grandfather to pull her in from the window.

I keep wondering if the parents are, in some ways trying to get those 34 seconds back. They DID know the Grandfather was capable of this kind of lapse in judgement & safety. People behave in patterns. They can't bear that. So, they are blaming RCI. If there was just a sign warning the grandfather, that he may have finally read somewhere along those 34 seconds. . . if only the ship had been totally enclosed, with no big working windows, then Grandfather would never had a chance to dangle Chloe out of and next to.

 

[msjprincess]

I don't know. If there was someone I thought didn't have great judgement while watching a toddler one of the last places I'd leave them alone is a pool area.

 

[Figment Mom]

If you go back to the headline/article quoted in the very first post of this thread, it states that the grandfather "dangled" her out the window.

The family denied that, saying he was holding her up to bang on the glass.

I always wondered where the dangling accusation came from. The video makes it so clear.

I wonder at what point in the case the family got to see the video. There's no denying what happened.

 

[Imzadi]

I don't know. If there was someone I thought didn't have great judgement while watching a toddler one of the last places I'd leave them alone is a pool area.

But, they wouldn't be alone. There would be RCI staff watching the pool. And many passengers nearby, had she fallen in.

Even at the bar area, where they ended up, a PP said 2 men had JUST left that area. Had they stayed another several seconds and saw what was happening, maybe one of them would have said something to the grandfather to not dangle the child out the window.

 

[QueenIsabella]

I don't know. If there was someone I thought didn't have great judgement while watching a toddler one of the last places I'd leave them alone is a pool area.

That's what I'm thinking, too. If they had some clue that Grandpa was...less than attentive or otherwise clueless, I wouldn't trust him near the pool with her. And actually, watching the video, he looks pretty attentive to little Chloe--he follows after her at a fairly close pace, squats down to talk to her, and then follows her over by the window. Until he picks her up, there's nothing that would raise any suspicions to me.

The parents really need to have someone they trust watch those videos. It's been a couple months, their initial shock has passed. I know the truth will be horrible for them, but perpetuating a lie isn't helping anyone (except maybe the lawyer, but I think his chance for a big payout left town).

 

[msjprincess]

But, they wouldn't be alone. There would be RCI staff watching the pool. And many passengers nearby, had she fallen in.

Even at the bar area, where they ended up, a PP said 2 men had JUST left that area. Had they stayed another several seconds and saw what was happening, maybe one of them would have said something to the grandfather to not dangle the child out the window.

Have you been on a cruise? The pool are is very crowded and busy on embarkation day. Koids have drowned i pools on cruise ships because it was crowded and no one noticed them struggling in the pool.

Plus I would never leave my toddler with the hopes that other passengers or staff would make sure she didn't fall in a pool while grandpa wasn't paying attention.

 

[Imzadi]

Have you been on a cruise? The pool are is very crowded and busy on embarkation day. Koids have drowned i pools on cruise ships because it was crowded and no one noticed them struggling in the pool.

Plus I would never leave my toddler with the hopes that other passengers or staff would make sure she didn't fall in a pool while grandpa wasn't paying attention.

No, I haven't been on a cruise. And I didn't know the drowning statistics. And if the parents & grandparents hadn't been on a cruise before either, they might have assumed as I did, there there are enough people around to keep her safe.

 

[msjprincess]

No, I haven't been on a cruise. And I didn't know the drowning statistics. And if the parents & grandparents hadn't been on a cruise before either, they might have assumed as I did, there there are enough people around to keep her safe.

I'm not just talking about cruise ships. I would never leave my toddler with someone with bad judgement and count on strangers to watch them. And I'm a pretty laid back non-helicopter parent.

 

[mjkacmom]

I'm not just talking about cruise ships. I would never leave my toddler with someone with bad judgement and count on strangers to watch them. And I'm a pretty laid back non-helicopter parent.

But we don’t know if he showed bad judgement before. My dad used to drive my kids everywhere, once we realized he was showing signs of Alzheimer’s, that ended. I know he loved my kids, but there was no way he was ever left in charge.

 

[msjprincess]

But we don’t know if he showed bad judgement before. My dad used to drive my kids everywhere, once we realized he was showing signs of Alzheimer’s, that ended. I know he loved my kids, but there was no way he was ever left in charge.

I never said he did. My posts were in response to a post saying that was a possibility. My whole point was I doubt he showed poor judgement in the past or they wouldn't have left their toddler with him at the pool.

 

[John VN]

No, I haven't been on a cruise. And I didn't know the drowning statistics. And if the parents & grandparents hadn't been on a cruise before either, they might have assumed as I did, there there are enough people around to keep her safe.

Keeping children safe when with family members is not the job of others, at least DW and I never felt it was with our kids or grandchildren.

 

[DLgal]

If you go back to the headline/article quoted in the very first post of this thread, it states that the grandfather "dangled" her out the window.

The family denied that, saying he was holding her up to bang on the glass.

I always wondered where the dangling accusation came from. The video makes it so clear.

I wonder at what point in the case the family got to see the video. There's no denying what happened.

The dangling wording came from either witnesses and/or what the grandpa himself told police. It was in the original police report.

At the time, everyone was all "witnesses are unreliable" and "you can't trust initial reports."

From the very beginning, as soon as I read that, I knew it was true.

 

[kimblebee]

Ohhh good grief...
Here we go again....
Jeez....

Glad to see my fan club is up and alive and well this morning!!!!!

What is wrong with you...
You thought out loud if the accident was planned...
Jeez....

Your imaginary fan club has every right to call you out for this!!!!!

 

[ronandannette]

Have you been on a cruise? The pool are is very crowded and busy on embarkation day. Koids have drowned i pools on cruise ships because it was crowded and no one noticed them struggling in the pool.

Plus I would never leave my toddler with the hopes that other passengers or staff would make sure she didn't fall in a pool while grandpa wasn't paying attention.

RCCL (and DCL and Norwegian) apparently all have dedicated lifeguards stationed at the pools now, in response to the drowning incident several years ago on DCL. Agreed though that the responsibility for my kid's safety always stopped with me, no matter where we were.

 

[sam_gordon]

Your imaginary fan club

oh, is there a meeting? Buttons? Signed photos? How do you join?

 

[declansdad]

Okay. I haven't been following this closely, and I actually did wonder if the Cruise Line might hold some kind of liability.
But, that video... Whoa.... OMG....
Now I am seeing the current comments here, about the parents being familiar with legalities, and that they chose this lawyer.
I am going to go out on a limb here and play devil's advocate and wonder if the absolute worst might be true.
(Yes I know that excited, distracted, overwhelmed, people do STOOPID things while on vacation....)
Could this whole thing have been something pre-conceived?
And, How could they NOT have known that there would be surveillance video EVERYWHERE.
This situation continues to confuse and disturb me.
And, how very very very sad.

I think that there might be good reason that there continue to be charges pending here.

WOW!

 

[FlightlessDuck]

I have never once, ever... promoted any conspiracy theories.

You literally posted a theory (floating an idea) of a conspiracy (the family planned out doing this in advance)

 

[sam_gordon]

Are personal attacks and clear argumentativeness supposed to be off-limits?

OK, I'll bite. What posts, and I know you know how to quote, do you consider "personal attacks"?

Again, just because someone disagrees with you does not make it a personal attack.

Last but not least, you've been here long enough to know how to report a post, why not do that instead of hoping the mods see your post in the middle of a thread?