This is just so sad,,and makes me ask WHY would someone do this?? I don't call it 'playing'??

[ronandannette]

But, that doesn't mean they won't do something. I would be surprised if some kind of change isn't made.

You could be right, but whatever it is, it's likely to be more of a gesture than any real increased safety measure, short of retrofitting the open spaces with steel mesh screens or something.

 

[sam_gordon]

It seems like your distaste regarding the family engaging a lawyer is coloring your opinion that he had to know the window was open. None of us know what he thought the situation was. My point is, what people think is a given, really isn't. I don't know what he thought the situation was at that moment. None of us do.

I'm not trying to be difficult. I'm really not. I'm just trying to make the point that was as humans tend to believe that things are absolute. That nobody could make this mistake or that mistake. But, sadly it happens.

Yes, I have been that close to glass and not known whether it was open or not. I walked right into the glass and ended up on the ground because I hit it so hard.

And you don't know what I'm thinking. I have no problems with the family engaging a lawyer. I would have recommended it early on when it looked like charges could be filed. Having a 3rd party fight for your rights is a good idea. What I have a problem with is the family giving the lawyer the ok to sue RCI claiming negligence.

 

[ronandannette]

The lawyer's statements are irrelevant to me.
The actions of the local authorities give me much better clues about the general direction of the investigation.
In addition to video and witnesses, I am sure the authorities will get weather info related to the winds/direction that day and time. Could one feel the breeze easily? Was the breeze blowing parallel to the ship, harder to feel? Or was it a still day?

I can only guess that the possible charge here would be reckless endangerment and I don't know what the standard of proof for that actually is. No one anywhere can argue against the Grandpa's action 100% caused this preventable tragedy but whether or not the standard of "a reasonable person acting prudently" may be up for grabs.

 

[sam_gordon]

But, that doesn't mean they won't do something. I would be surprised if some kind of change isn't made.

I really hope they don't. Freedom launched in 2006. So it's been sailing for 13 years. I know she's gone through dry dock for three weeks. So 13 years * 52 weeks/year = 676 weeks. Subtract the three weeks in dry docks and you're at 673 weeks. The ship holds ~ 4000 passengers. 673 weeks * 4000 = 2,692,000 passengers. Does it make sense to make a change for the one person who made a bad decision? And how do you justify making a change at these windows that wouldn't need to be made on every balcony cabin and weather deck?

 

[PrincessShmoo]

There would be no "language barrier" issues at the level of a criminal police investigation.

Correct. But I think the "language barrier" thing was more likely the news reports (in Spanish) then being translated into English.

So, the police issued a statement (in English? Spanish? Both?). Reporter submits story (in Spanish) for printing. Another reporter picks up story and translates it into English (thereby picking the wrong word when there were two possibilities) and reports the story. '

Then the whole story winds up being different than what may have been originally reported.

 

[Allison]

And you don't know what I'm thinking.

Sorry, I didn't intend to say I did.

 

[ronandannette]

Correct. But I think the "language barrier" thing was more likely the news reports (in Spanish) then being translated into English.

So, the police issued a statement (in English? Spanish? Both?). Reporter submits story (in Spanish) for printing. Another reporter picks up story and translates it into English (thereby picking the wrong word wen there were two possibilities) and reports the story. '

Then the whole story winds up being different than what may have been originally reported.

I completely agree this is contributing to what seem like conflicting and inconsistent accounts of the incident. As well, there was a pp upthread that asserted everyone in public service in Puerto Rico is fully bi-lingual, which may or may not be true, but I have seen at least one news interview where a member of law enforcement administration was being asked questions in English, answering in Spanish and have the answers translated back into English.

 

[msjprincess]

I really hope they don't. Freedom launched in 2006. So it's been sailing for 13 years. I know she's gone through dry dock for three weeks. So 13 years * 52 weeks/year = 676 weeks. Subtract the three weeks in dry docks and you're at 673 weeks. The ship holds ~ 4000 passengers. 673 weeks * 4000 = 2,692,000 passengers. Does it make sense to make a change for the one person who made a bad decision? And how do you justify making a change at these windows that wouldn't need to be made on every balcony cabin and weather deck?

I'm pretty sure Voyager class ships have the same windows in the pool area. So they've been around at least 20 years.

 

[John VN]

Looking at this pic, I would have thought the middle one was open, as there are reflections on both the far right and far left panes.

Interesting, my perception is night time through opened windows with lights glaring as they do in photos and my older eyes with the tinted (darker) windows.

 

[sam_gordon]

I'm pretty sure Voyager class ships have the same windows in the pool area. So they've been around at least 20 years.

And I'm guessing Liberty of the Seas (Freedom's sister ship) has the same windows.

 

[John VN]

Just a question as I don’t know anything about cruise ships. But it’s like a wall of windows right? Why don’t they open the upper windows instead of those at that level? I mean I get that they don’t plan for people to do whatever grandpa did but it seems like it would be safer.

I'm guessing it's so people can feel the breeze. If the upper windows were open, I don't know that anyone would feel the effects.

This is just a guess though.

This cruiser enjoys the unobstructed view, no glass between my eyes and outside, and could care less about the breeze.

 

[msjprincess]

And I'm guessing Liberty of the Seas (Freedom's sister ship) has the same windows.

I've never been on Liberty but I have been on Independence a couple of times and they definitely had them as well. I know Allure has them so I assume the have them on all Oasis class ships.

 

[okeydokey]

Have you ever been within 2' of a window and NOT know whether it was open or not? If he was that close to the window and still couldn't tell it was open, he shouldn't have had responsibility for a toddler put into his care.

This was a tragic accident. Whatever decisions he made he will have to live with for the rest of his life. However, instead of saying "I made the wrong decision" or "I don't know exactly what happened", they (the family) try to put all the blame on the cruise line. That is reprehensible IMO.

Yes I have. Not this particular window, but I have mistaken a closed or open window before in my lifetime. So I should never handle a child again, right?

 

[gwynne]

Yes I have.

Was this on a ship in a location where trade winds regularly blow?
If so, I'm just curious about what you felt as well as what you visually noted.
(Edited to add--Your post edit with additional comments popped up on my phone just a sec ago-)

 

[sam_gordon]

Yes I have. Not this particular window, but I have mistaken a closed or open window before in my lifetime. So I should never handle a child again, right?

Just to clarify, you stood next to an open window and thought it was closed?

ETA: I could understand being a distance away from the window and thinking it's closed. But once you get next to it, how do you still think it's closed?

 

[mjkacmom]

Just to clarify, you stood next to an open window and thought it was closed?

ETA: I could understand being a distance away from the window and thinking it's closed. But once you get next to it, how do you still think it's closed?

I walked into a screen door a few weeks ago, very embarrassing.

 

[Disneylover99]

ETA: I could understand being a distance away from the window and thinking it's closed. But once you get next to it, how do you still think it's closed?

I can see not realizing there was an open window from far away and then getting close with the assumption that all windows are closed, so not really thinking to doublecheck. Foolish mistake of course.

 

[PollyannaMom]

I disagree. There's nothing more needed at all to provide a reasonably safe environment. Slipping on a wet pool deck or stumbling down a staircase when the ship is moving are far more realistic risks, and things like that are simply impossible to 100% prevent. Minimizing the risk of a baby being dropped out of an open window is a crazy-implausible scenario to actively mitigate against.

But, that doesn't mean they won't do something. I would be surprised if some kind of change isn't made.

I was just thinking they'll post signs saying "please stay well back from the windows" in a few different languages.

 

[msjprincess]

I was just thinking they'll post signs saying "please stay well back from the windows" in a few different languages.

I hope not. I like to lean up against those railings while looking out. Like I do with all other railings around the ship.

 

[msjprincess]

Even at a distance it's pretty obvious when one of the windows is open.