This brought the Segway Lawsuit to mind

[chirurgeon]

I saw this on CNN.com
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/05/08/vet.segways/index.html

Kim

Amputee vets see eye-to-eye on Segways

From Paul Courson
CNN


ARLINGTON, Virginia (CNN) -- U.S. Army Sgt. Jacque Keeslar lost both legs in Iraq nearly two years ago. To get around, he relies on a wheelchair and a pair of artificial legs, which help him walk in short bursts.


Veterans at Walter Reed are using Segways that are custom designed for their injuries to get around.

"If I have to do a half mile or mile of walking, it just exhausts me," Keeslar said.

Now, thanks to a specially designed Segway, the battery-powered transporter, Keeslar says he can ditch his wheelchair and get around without people looking down on him.

Keeslar was among 30 vets who received their own modified Segways this week, courtesy of Disability Rights Advocates for Technology.

The nonprofit group presented its latest batch of Segways to the veterans in a ceremony Wednesday at the Army-Navy Country Club in Arlington, Virginia. That brings the number of Segways they have donated to vets to about 150.

Leonard Timm, who founded DRAFT in 2005, calls the mission "Segs-4-Vets."


"[The Segways] provide them with another mobility option that will increase their distance, and will give them a way to communicate with the world standing up," Timm said.

Segway-equipped amputees in physical therapy at the Walter Reed Army Medical Center train on their new rides as part of an informal club at the facility. On Fridays, they wheel their machines as a group around the site in Washington.


The machines cost about $6,000 each and are provided at a discount to DRAFT by Segway dealers around the country. The manufacturer, cautious that the machine is not certified as a medical device, has not been directly involved in the campaign, which is supported by donations.

The machines are popular with law enforcement for sidewalk patrols. Recently, tourists have started using them to go sightseeing.

 

[Disneybridein2k3]

Your post reminded me of this....

http://www.wdwinfo.com/news/Theme_P...n_Mad_Tea_Cup_Party_assault_to_sue_Disney.htm

Victim in Mad Tea Cup Party assault to sue Disney
Apr 24, 2008

Aimee Krause, the victim in the Mad Tea Cup Party is planning to sue Disney following the conviction of her assailant.

Eban Self, Krause's attorney indicated that Disney's lack of security will be part of the lawsuit. Self stated "It's just one in a long line of many incidents where this kind of thing has happened before."

Victoria Walker, the assailant in the case, was found guilty of battery and sentenced to 90 days in jail. Her son, Tony Phillips commented "Ms. Krause, that's her, you know what I'm saying? She's doing her thing - and that's suing Disney."

 

[rayelias]

Aimee Krause, the victim in the Mad Tea Cup Party is planning to sue Disney following the conviction of her assailant.

Eban Self, Krause's attorney indicated that Disney's lack of security will be part of the lawsuit. Self stated "It's just one in a long line of many incidents where this kind of thing has happened before."

Victoria Walker, the assailant in the case, was found guilty of battery and sentenced to 90 days in jail. Her son, Tony Phillips commented "Ms. Krause, that's her, you know what I'm saying? She's doing her thing - and that's suing Disney."

Lack of security at Disney?!?

I'd bet their security is at least 5X as great as walking down the street in any major US city.

If you get mugged on the streets in public, you can't sue the municipality for "lack of security", when it's their CONSTITUTIONAL DUTY to protect us. And, I'll guarantee that MUCH more money is spent by cities on security than Disney does - and I don't know about you, but I feel a thousand times safer in Disney at 2AM than I do at noon in any US city.

So, now Disney has to spend tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars to defend themselves at the least, and if they lose, potentially millions of dollars.

You want to know why it costs so much for tickets? Why Disney has to increase costs on stroller rentals? Why Disney dining keeps increasing?

 

[merryweather20]

Man that Segway lawsuit ticked me off. From what the judge said the parties weren't even planning on visiting Disney. Its a bummer that Disney has to waste money on that kind of stuff

 

[transitguru]

Since it looks like the Judge here is not going to allow a suit against Disney over Segway use without proof of an actual denial by Disney, I suggest the following steps:

1) Get yourself to Downtown Disney, with a ticket to one of the parks.

2) Attempt to Board a Disney bus to the chosen park

3) When refused, sue. (A video tape of the refusal would be nice)

The reason for choosing a bus is that the Federal Transit Administration has already ruled that although the Segway is not a Wheelchair, it is an assistive device like canes, crutches and walkers and thus MUST be allowed on a bus when being used as such.

This is effectively the law. Thus, by starting on a Disney bus, the acceptable part has already been decided. See: www fta.dot.gov/civilrights/ada/civil_rights_3893.html

 

[rayelias]

Since it looks like the Judge here is not going to allow a suit against Disney over Segway use without proof of an actual denial by Disney, I suggest the following steps:

Gee, you seem saddened that the lawsuit was thrown out.

1) Get yourself to Downtown Disney, with a ticket to one of the parks.

2) Attempt to Board a Disney bus to the chosen park

3) When refused, sue. (A video tape of the refusal would be nice)

The reason for choosing a bus is that the Federal Transit Administration has already ruled that although the Segway is not a Wheelchair, it is an assistive device like canes, crutches and walkers and thus MUST be allowed on a bus when being used as such.

This is effectively the law. Thus, by starting on a Disney bus, the acceptable part has already been decided. See: www fta.dot.gov/civilrights/ada/civil_rights_3893.html

And they wonder why Lawyers are so disliked.

Thanks for the advice. I'll remember that when I can't afford to go to Disney anymore.

Want to know why there are so many lawsuits? Anytime ONE lawyer gets work at least THREE lawyers get paid (defendant, plaintiff, judge). One back scratches two others.

That's why lawschool is 7 years. 4 years to learn the law, and 3 years to suck the humanity and ethics out of you.

 

[UrsulasShadow]

When Segways are designed by the manufacturer to be assistive devices, then there's a case. Just because one branch of the administration has made a foolish ruling, it doesn't mean it will stand up in a court case...indeed, I really hope that ruling is overturned.

Suppose some person decides that it is in his best interest to wear, oh, say, jet-propelled boots. Every time he employs the jet propulsion on said boots, someone in close proximity gets scorched. But because his idiot doctor/civil rights lawyer has said that he NEEDS these boots in order to get around, it doesn't matter that it threatens the safety of those around the wearer, not to mention the wearer himself...he NEEDS those boots (which the manufacturer did NOT design for this use, BTW), so should be allowed to wear them wherever he wants.

Why not allow heelies then? Aren't children impaired, by having short legs and smaller energy reserves? Doesn't this constitute a proper use as an "assistive device"?

If there has been a ruling that a device is being used contrary to manufacturer's intent for the purpose of assisting the handicapped, the ruling should be overturned until said device is actually designed and tested and proven to be safe and effective. THEN it should be allowed in the parks, not before. There are already approved devices for the handicapped which are on the market, which lift the rider up to eye level, as well as climb stairs, pivot on a dime, and are MUCH more stable and safe. They probably are very expensive, true, but they are out there.

Surprised a lawyer for Segway hasn't already taken up on this.

 

[rayelias]

Aren't children impaired, by having short legs and smaller energy reserves?

You had me until you said "smaller energy reserves." It may, in fact, be smaller, but they sure use it more efficiently! I wish I had half the energy as the average child! Hey... maybe *I* should be allowed to wear healies!

 

[amyhughes]

Since it looks like the Judge here is not going to allow a suit against Disney over Segway use without proof of an actual denial by Disney, I suggest the following steps:

1) Get yourself to Downtown Disney, with a ticket to one of the parks.

2) Attempt to Board a Disney bus to the chosen park

3) When refused, sue. (A video tape of the refusal would be nice)

The reason for choosing a bus is that the Federal Transit Administration has already ruled that although the Segway is not a Wheelchair, it is an assistive device like canes, crutches and walkers and thus MUST be allowed on a bus when being used as such.

This is effectively the law. Thus, by starting on a Disney bus, the acceptable part has already been decided. See: www fta.dot.gov/civilrights/ada/civil_rights_3893.html

It may be allowed on a metro transit bus such as Orlando would employ. But the Disney Transportation is reserved for guests of the park not the public at large. Therefore would it not fall under the scope of private property?

 

[transitguru]

It may be allowed on a metro transit bus such as Orlando would employ. But the Disney Transportation is reserved for guests of the park not the public at large. Therefore would it not fall under the scope of private property?

Actually the FTA does in fact regulate the Disney Busses. They got in trouble a few years ago for not having Wheelchair lift equipped busses on their routes, and now they are nearly at 100% lift compliance.

Because Disney holds themselves out to the public, they must follow the transit laws. They also have been given local government authority here (Reedy Creek Improvement District), and that makes them liable as well.

Guess I see the whole issue as a 2 edge sword. If Disney banned Segway's for everyone, including the EPCOT tour and the Cast Members, I might understand a flat out ban on them. However, for them to allow their use in tours and CM's, but forbid their use by the people featured in the article is wrong. That article talked of providing Segways to recent Veterans who have artificial legs from the current wars, and use a Segway instead of a wheelchair because of their limited walking range.

My understanding from reading other reports on these Veterans the reason it is very difficult for this group of Veterans to use Wheelchairs is that many of the limbs used do not have a knee joint, resulting in the inability to sit in a wheelchair normally. They must either have leg extensions or remove their legs to sit. Thus, I can understand why a Segway would be useful for those featured.

Why not something more objective, such as top speed limit for mobility devices, or more generally for everyone. Like a "No Running" policy. My understanding is the Segway comes with more than one key, each color coded key limited to a certain top speed. Simply insist that only the color key used by CM's be used, as it is my understanding that CM's are not allowed to use the fast key (Red), but are permitted to use the middle key (Yellow) which permits a speed of 8mph.

As for other types of mobility devices, I have a good friend that goes to Disney on a regular basis in a power chair that can do 19.5 MPH. My understanding is the top speed of a Segway is 12.5 MPH. He would never consider going that fast, but it is ironic that they let him in with a device that could overtake a Segway.

Of course we all know the ECV's provided by Disney seem to be limited to about 2 MPH. This is a good thing considering they allow non-trained people to rent them.

Disney should be able to be enjoyed by all. I do hope that groups featured in the article are able to convince Disney to change their policy without legal action. However, I am not opposed to taking such action if needed, and thus why I stated what I see as the perfect formula to create "standing", which is what the Judge found was lacking in the last suit. Basically the Judge did not believe the people suing intended to visit Disney. A lawyer letter to Disney citing the FTA policy might go a long way to getting the policy changed for those that need it without the need for another lawsuit.

 

[wannabprincess]

Welcome to DIS, I'm so glad you're first two posts were to bash Disney
Disney goes way out of the way to make sure handicap people are more than taken care of. Maybe if you spent your time enjoying Disney instead of figuring out ways to sue Disney would would be a a lot happier person.

Since it looks like the Judge here is not going to allow a suit against Disney over Segway use without proof of an actual denial by Disney, I suggest the following steps:

1) Get yourself to Downtown Disney, with a ticket to one of the parks.

2) Attempt to Board a Disney bus to the chosen park

3) When refused, sue. (A video tape of the refusal would be nice)

The reason for choosing a bus is that the Federal Transit Administration has already ruled that although the Segway is not a Wheelchair, it is an assistive device like canes, crutches and walkers and thus MUST be allowed on a bus when being used as such.

This is effectively the law. Thus, by starting on a Disney bus, the acceptable part has already been decided. See: www fta.dot.gov/civilrights/ada/civil_rights_3893.html

 

[chirurgeon]

So, the ruling says Segways have to be allowed on busses. I don't see anything saying they have to be allowed in the parks.

Kim

 

[transitguru]

I have been going to Disney with wheelchair people for a long time and I admit that most of the time the CM are very friendly to our party. However, this Segway bit seems so contrary to the normal friendly Disney attitude toward the disabled, and thus I am shocked that Disney has taken the attitude they have. Has Disneyland had this problem as well? Seems to me that the Segway is even more popular in Southern California than Florida.

 

[chirurgeon]

Disney is not discriminating against the disabled. They are simply stating that they will not permit the Segway. They can use wheel chairs, power chairs or ECVs. I believe one of the main reasons for the ban on Segways is the available speed. There is no way for Disney to put speed governers on privately owned Segways and they can be set to go up to 20 mph. The ones used in the parks have speed governers that limit the speed to I think 5 mph. Personally I don't want anyone using a vehicle that can go that fast where I am walking. I had to use an ECV on one of my trips and I had a lot of trouble not hitting people who stepped in front of me. If some one did that with a Segway both the Segway driver an the pedestrian would be injured, possibly severely. I have gone on the Epcot World Showcase tour. I love it, I woud love a Segway of my own but not in the parks.

All in all this is a safety issue and I think Disney is right and within the law.

Kim

 

[EltonJohn]

Victim in Mad Tea Cup Party assault to sue Disney
Apr 24, 2008

Aimee Krause, the victim in the Mad Tea Cup Party is planning to sue Disney following the conviction of her assailant.

How proud her parents must be If she had training in the martial arts then she could have probably successfuly defended herself at the time of the original inicident.

 

[transitguru]

Guess we will find out soon, as I have learned that the Segway Suit is back on.

Seems that on Feb 21, the case was dismissed without prejudice, and the Plaintiffs were given 10 days to amend their complaint. Most likely, it simply needed a statement that the Plaintiffs intended to visit Disney which was missing the first time.

On March 4, it appears that the Judge signed a case management order that gives the schedule of the case, and it looks like it is back on again. See: www keepingupwithjonas.com/keeping_up_with_jonas/files/aultsignedorder.pdf for the order.

We will see soon what happens.

I would guess Disney would have an easier time if their staff did not use the devices and it was simply an outright ban for everyone, but I would never try to guess a Federal Court. It of course could go either way, but at least we WILL get an answer.

 

[merryweather20]

I think its likely there was some misinformation in your previous posts. None of the plaintiff's were veteran amputees. The plaintiffs wanted the Seways to ease mobility issues arising from multiple sclerosis, Lou Gehrig's disease and from a foot amputation arising from a personal accident.

Most Power wheel-chairs go between 3 and 5 mph after an exhaustive internet search I was able to find one that topped out at a whopping 6.5 mph. If your friend's really does go 19 mph his is a very rare and costly wheel-chair indeed.

 

[Disneybridein2k3]

I'm not going to comment on how fast ECVs can go, but as an outsider looking in, here's what I see: as Kevin pointed in another post, you don't have to give any reason why you want to rent a wheelchair or ECV/stoller and I imagine the same will apply with with segways. That being said, if the segway suit gets passed and just anyone can rent a segway, you'll have people who don't know how to use them renting them which will cause problems. DH and I did a segway tour that lasted 3 hours and while some people were comfortable, I wasn't and I can't be the only one. If just anyone is allowed to drive a segway in the parks, it could be downright dangerous.

 

[Euphscott]

You want to know why it costs so much for tickets? Why Disney has to increase costs on stroller rentals? Why Disney dining keeps increasing?

I kind of assumed it was greed...

 

[transitguru]

Many power chairs are custom made from a variety of parts from various manfacturers. In order to do the faster speed, an 80 amp or in some cases even a 100 amp controler is used, along with "taller" gearing. This is often done for persons that "Commute" in their chairs within a place such as a city. Limiting the chair to the standard 5-6 MPH increases the time it takes to get from place to place in a city. This is why this user obtained a chair that has a higher top speed. The higher amp controler and batteries raised the price about 600 dollars from standard, which he felt was worth it.

Disney got the first round suit dismissed in February, but lost in its attempt to dismiss the amended complaint re-filled in March. This is a copy of the order: www
keepingupwithjonas. com/keeping_up_with_jonas/
files/Deny_Motion_Dismiss_AmendCmplt_Ault
.pdf

Thus, unless Disney settles, guess this will go to trial.

The Vet group is the most famous users of the Segway's, I did not mean to imply the they were the current plaintiff. However, they are the group that sees the most press. The court document does not seem to state the nature of their disability.

I think its likely there was some misinformation in your previous posts. None of the plaintiff's were veteran amputees. The plaintiffs wanted the Seways to ease mobility issues arising from multiple sclerosis, Lou Gehrig's disease and from a foot amputation arising from a personal accident.

Most Power wheel-chairs go between 3 and 5 mph after an exhaustive internet search I was able to find one that topped out at a whopping 6.5 mph. If your friend's really does go 19 mph his is a very rare and costly wheel-chair indeed.