Thinking of buying resale

Bshapiro

Earning My Ears
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Nov 29, 2015
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15
Highly considering purchasing resale and looking for some input from others

Our history. We have been vacationing at Disneyland 3-6 days every two years on average for the past 20 years. We live in California. We have been to DisneyWorld twice and Aulani once over the past 6 years. We are planning another DisneyWorld trip in 2019. I’ve been researching DVC for the past 3 years since our Aulani visit. Our last trip to DisneyWorld we rented points from David’s DVC for 6 nights at GFV in a 2 bedroom that we split with another family. Everything was amazing and we were shocked at the low cost for what we got. While we certainly love Disneyland, our DisneyWorld trips are just something extra special. We can also afford to hit up Disneyland on our non DisneyWorld years for a few days if we want to. Disneyland for us is a 1-3 day weekend getaway, where DisneyWorld feels like a more extravagant “big” Holliday that we very much enjoy. We have 3 daughters, 3, 7 and 25. The 25 year old has her girlfriend and they usually try and come with us when we go. We certainly plan on going to DisneyWorld every other year over the next 10 and likely 20+ years. We will likely always want a 2 bedroom as it gives our immediate 6 person crew room to spread and/or if we bring another family with us we can cram in, at least until the 3 and 7 year old outgrow smaller beds.

We have stayed at the GFV and at the Boardwalk. We liked the ability to walk to Epcot, but the elegance of the Grand is 2nd to none. We also ate at Victoria and Alberts and would certainly plan to do so again on each future visit. While we don’t need to be staying at the Grand to do so, it’s certainly convenient.

We can easily afford to rent points every other year, however, doing this we likely wouldn’t necessarily pay for the full cost of a 2 bedroom ourselves. We would split it with another family or make the 25 year old help cover some of the costs. If though, we purchased DVC to cover the points for a 2 bedroom, we would be happy to invite the 25 year old to come for free and either invite another family (friends or siblings) for free or extremely low rate, perhaps simply the years maintenance fee. Being able to do this, would feel great, especially as family vacations are very important to us. Since I work in education we can only really vacation during Thanksgiving week or Christmas break. From what I can gather, we would need 220 points a year to be able to have the 433 points for a 2 bedroom during the times we would need.

Doing a simple calculation, saying that inflation for both the cost to rental points and the cost of maintenance fees going up would be about the same: If we were to purchase 220 GFV points at $145/point (which is the average that the April ROFR thread listed) it would cost us $31,900. Even if we financed some of it for a short term our total could be around $34,068. Whit this in mind, I estimated out that for the full 46 years of the contract it would cost us $96,100 (not including rise in MF). If we simply rented the same points it would cost us $318,688 (not including rise in rental cost). That is a savings of $222,584 over the life of the contract. Since we are very likely planning to vacation every other year at DisneyWorld over the next 20 years at least the math seems to be a no brainer to me.

While I had looked at some of the other DVC resorts that would be less expensive upfront, when looking at the length of the contract compared to say BRV, BWV or BCV it’s difficult to dismiss the value over time that GFV has. The only thing that might change our thoughts of GFV would be if we wanted to get a Grand Villa at say Animal Kingdom. But I don’t see that as something we would need for maybe 20-30 years, when the 3 and 7 year old start families of their own. At which point, we could likely afford to add to our GFV points, or sell and then buy at AKV or who knows. As we would only possibly be looking into a Grand Villa in 20+ years, I can’t see getting into one of the DVC that only has 25 years on the contract.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
 
It sounds like DVC could be a good fit for you. As you probably know VGF is extremely popular around Christmas so you definitely need to own there and be online right at 8am to book 11 months out.

A simpler way to think of it is on a per point basis. You're paying $145 for 46 years of points, or $3.15 /point /year. Then the maintenance fees are $5.90 so your effective annual cost is $9.05/ pt ($3.15 + $5.90). You can compare that to the $17 /point it would cost you to rent-- so a big savings.

Now of course this ignores that fact that you are dropping $32k upfront. If you could invest that money elsewhere and make just 3%, that adds $4.35/pt ($145 * 3%) of opportunity cost pushing your effective cost up to $13.40/pt. Still 20% cheaper than renting, but not as drastic.
 
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I am an owner at VGF, and we love it there. We started with 250 points, thinking we could go for 10 days in a studio or 5 days in a 1BR (per year). As it happened, our adult kids (and their kids) loved it, too. So we added on additional points so now we are able to go twice a year, including a week in a 2BR. It is simply a great resort. My kids have said they would come for the Grand Floridian even if the parks weren't there. I know you already have stayed there. I am just saying that it holds up well with repeated trips.

I can see the need to add on enough points for a Grand Villa as more grandchildren come along.
 
We travel from the west coast as well, but like to go once a year for 10 or 11 days.
I bought VGF resale last year because I love the resort. I already owned at AKV, so we did a split stay last year and are doing AKV this year w/ VGF next year. Much as I love AKV, there is something very special about the GF and the villas are lovely. IME, it is so much easier to eat at V & A's when you are staying at the GF, although I do wish they had a bud vase in the villas to put the roses in.
 

It sounds like DVC could be a good fit for you. As you probably know VGF is extremely popular around Christmas so you definitely need to own there and be online right at 8am to book 11 months out.

A simpler way to think of it is on a per point basis. You're paying $145 for 46 years of points, or $3.15 /point /year. Then the maintenance fees are $5.90 so your effective annual cost is $9.05/ pt ($3.15 + $5.90). You can compare that to the $17 /point it would cost you to rent-- so a big savings.

Now of course this ignores that fact that you are dropping $32k upfront. If you could invest that money elsewhere and make just 3%, that adds $4.35/pt ($145 * 3%) of opportunity cost pushing your effective cost up to $13.40/pt. Still 20% cheaper than renting, but not as drastic.

Thanks for this! I had not thought about breaking it down to a per point basis. I also know that when we stayed at VGF with rental points it was in a off week in late January and we were able to book at 7 months, was a spur of the moment trip. Staying there had been a 10 year dream. Fortunately we're a much better place now, and older, ha, so it's more of a reality.
 
We travel from the west coast as well, but like to go once a year for 10 or 11 days.
I bought VGF resale last year because I love the resort. I already owned at AKV, so we did a split stay last year and are doing AKV this year w/ VGF next year. Much as I love AKV, there is something very special about the GF and the villas are lovely. IME, it is so much easier to eat at V & A's when you are staying at the GF, although I do wish they had a bud vase in the villas to put the roses in.

As a fellow west coaster, comparing VGF and AKV, do you feel that AKV is out of the way?

I'm torn with our 2019 trip about trying to buy points now to use, or holding off for one more trip and renting points to go to AKV. When you did a split stay, how long did you go for? If we went for 7 days and did like 4 at VGF and 3 at AKV or something like that, to get a feel for the two before buying, is that doable?
 
I would suggest a purchase of GFV seems to be the correct choice for you. But, be aware that you will need to book at exactly 11 months because you're booking during extremely popular times.
 
While I had looked at some of the other DVC resorts that would be less expensive upfront, when looking at the length of the contract compared to say BRV, BWV or BCV it’s difficult to dismiss the value over time that GFV has.

6 months ago we were looking to add on an Epcot resort and we ended up buying at VGF for the same reasons you list. Also, we really love the resort and love V&A (and all the restaurants there, actually).

I am an owner at VGF, and we love it there. We started with 250 points, thinking we could go for 10 days in a studio or 5 days in a 1BR (per year). As it happened, our adult kids (and their kids) loved it, too. So we added on additional points so now we are able to go twice a year, including a week in a 2BR. It is simply a great resort. My kids have said they would come for the Grand Floridian even if the parks weren't there. I know you already have stayed there. I am just saying that it holds up well with repeated trips.

I can see the need to add on enough points for a Grand Villa as more grandchildren come along.

We started with 200 at VGF and are in ROFR for our second VGF contract! It is our family's favorite resort, too. Its price per point hasn't gone up as much as other resorts (looking at you, BCV and BLT!) in the last year or two, either. We've stayed there twice, once at the hotel and again on rented points. If you think you would go at least every other year, then it would probably be a good fit for you. The danger comes when you see the points and start thinking you'd like to go more than once a year...
 
I would suggest a purchase of GFV seems to be the correct choice for you. But, be aware that you will need to book at exactly 11 months because you're booking during extremely popular times.

This is another big reason for buying as I'm worried we would not be able to get rental points even at 11 months out.
 
If the numbers work and you know which resort is your favorite and you don't change and start spending more money at Disney, then buying may save you some money. We don't care if our favorite resort has a shorter termination date and costs more, we want to stay there.

:earsboy: Bill

 
You've been to WDW twice in the past six years. If you buy points at WDW, do you plan on increasing the number of trips you take to WDW? Getting GCV at seven months can be very hard. I think there are only two GVs there and the odds of them being booked before you could book at seven months out would be great. If you plan on using points at DL/CA yearly or nearly yearly, you need to own there. You say you are planning on annual trips to WDW, but is that nailed down or just a guess at this point. You probably could book Aulani at seven months out. If you are planning on a GV yearly for the next twenty years, buy your points at a place where you can book that GV at eleven months out. You'll need that for Thanksgiving or Christmas.
 
You've been to WDW twice in the past six years. If you buy points at WDW, do you plan on increasing the number of trips you take to WDW? Getting GCV at seven months can be very hard. I think there are only two GVs there and the odds of them being booked before you could book at seven months out would be great. If you plan on using points at DL/CA yearly or nearly yearly, you need to own there. You say you are planning on annual trips to WDW, but is that nailed down or just a guess at this point. You probably could book Aulani at seven months out. If you are planning on a GV yearly for the next twenty years, buy your points at a place where you can book that GV at eleven months out. You'll need that for Thanksgiving or Christmas.

I can clarify. In the past, we have done Disneyland every other year (at least) for over 20 years. Once we finally did WDW, for us, it was a whole new experience that we really enjoyed. We have been twice, with 1 time to Aulani in between every other year over the past 6 and are going to WDW in fall of 2019. We would likely continue to go every 2 years. Sure if we did not own DVC we might skip a year here or there. We can also still afford to do another week long vacation on our non WDW years, so we are not really worried about being stuck only doing Disney. For the foreseeable future we will be more than fine with a 2BR, and really if it were just us and the 2 younger kids a studio. My 25 year old often comes with us, though I don't expect that she always will. As the two younger ones get older, the 2 BDR will be nice as well. Its going to be at least 15 and likely closer to 20 years before the kids have kids. So I can't really see planning for a grand villa now. Though the cost of a 2BR at VGF is about the same as a Grand Villa Savanah view at AKV.

We may do our 2019 trip and split between AKV and BRV or CCR. With that we will have then visited all the places we would consider buying into.
 
As a fellow west coaster, comparing VGF and AKV, do you feel that AKV is out of the way?

I'm torn with our 2019 trip about trying to buy points now to use, or holding off for one more trip and renting points to go to AKV. When you did a split stay, how long did you go for? If we went for 7 days and did like 4 at VGF and 3 at AKV or something like that, to get a feel for the two before buying, is that doable?
We did 5 nights at AKV followed by 3 at BWV followed by 3 at VGF when I was deciding between buying at BWV or VGF. Despite my love of Epcot, I preferred VGF, so that's what I bought - I used my AKV points to try out BWV/VGF that trip. I'd also stayed cash in an AKV villa before I bought my AKV points, but I like to thoroughly research things.
Last year we split 6 nights at AKV and 5 at VGF.
Regarding AKV being far from everything. Every resort is far from something. AKV is bus only and it would be nice to have alternate transportation or walking access to at least one park like most of the other deluxe resorts. AKV isn't for everyone - and it's very different from VGF. I like each for different reasons.
 
I'm torn with our 2019 trip about trying to buy points now to use, or holding off for one more trip and renting points to go to AKV. When you did a split stay, how long did you go for? If we went for 7 days and did like 4 at VGF and 3 at AKV or something like that, to get a feel for the two before buying, is that doable?
When in 2019 are you thinking of going? From my own experience, if your 2019 trip is likely 15+ months from now, then yes, you can do online research and buy your points now and plan to use them for 2019. Anything less than that can end up pushing you to consider contracts that may not be the best fit, just so you can get points in your account in time to use them for your trip. If your trip is <15 mo out, you can always look at rental points for the 2019 trip and then take your time looking for the "perfect" (or almost perfect) contract. It's amazing how much more relaxed we were bidding on each of our contracts because we didn't have imminent plans to use them. (Well our 1st BLT contract we made the offer about 11 months before our plan to use them, and it was pretty stressful trying to get a reservation once points were in our account 9 months before our trip; we learned our lesson after that.)

This is another big reason for buying as I'm worried we would not be able to get rental points even at 11 months out.

Depending on when you are planning to go, and which resort you want, this may or may not be a real issue. AKV often still has availability at 7 months in most views other than value and club. VGF faces the most pressure in the studios, and winter holidays, but I'm relatively new at looking at VGF availability. That said, I was able to rent a short stay at VGF (in a studio) last summer at 10 months out.

Edited to add: I know you're not considering BLT, but BLT lake view usually also has pretty good availability even at 7 mo out, except during DVC-popular times (Xmas, fall frenzy, Run Disney times)
 
I just rented AKV points from Dave's DVC rental at 11 months out for Spring Break 2019. You can wait list a request through them at 12 months out, but they cannot set up rentals before 11 months out. My point is, there are definitely points available at 11 months out, at least through points brokers. dvcrequest.com has a page where they give advice about how far out you should make requests for the best chances at various resorts and for various room types, so that might be a helpful resource if you opt to rent in 2019.
 
As a fellow west coaster, comparing VGF and AKV, do you feel that AKV is out of the way?

AKV is very close to AK and also very close to HS. It's pretty close to Epcot. It's really only "far" from the Magic Kingdom, and that's relative. Obviously as a monorail resort, VGF is closest to MK.

But for comparison sake, by car it's about 2 minutes longer to get from AKV to Epcot vs. going from VGF to Epcot. It's about 5 minutes faster to get from AKV to HS than it is from VGF to HS.

The "AKV is far from everything" talking point is really overblown. Some people just find more magic in the monorail resorts because they are monorail resorts and you can see the castle, etc. There's nothing wrong with that. But AKV isn't really as "remote" as people think, especially when you consider WDW as a whole and not just the Magic Kingdom. AKV also has very good bus service.
 
AKV is very close to AK and also very close to HS. It's pretty close to Epcot. It's really only "far" from the Magic Kingdom, and that's relative.
The "AKV is far from everything" talking point is really overblown. Some people just find more magic in the monorail resorts because they are monorail resorts and you can see the castle, etc. There's nothing wrong with that. But AKV isn't really as "remote" as people think, especially when you consider WDW as a whole and not just the Magic Kingdom. AKV also has very good bus service.

AKV Disney provided transportation is strictly buses. While it is "close" to things, unless you have a car, you're on a Disney bus. From AKV, you cannot walk to any park.

GFV, Poly, and BLT have easy monorail transportation to MK and a one transfer monorail to Epcot. You can walk to the MK from BLT.
 
Highly considering purchasing resale and looking for some input from others

Our history. We have been vacationing at Disneyland 3-6 days every two years on average for the past 20 years. We live in California. We have been to DisneyWorld twice and Aulani once over the past 6 years. We are planning another DisneyWorld trip in 2019. I’ve been researching DVC for the past 3 years since our Aulani visit. Our last trip to DisneyWorld we rented points from David’s DVC for 6 nights at GFV in a 2 bedroom that we split with another family. Everything was amazing and we were shocked at the low cost for what we got. While we certainly love Disneyland, our DisneyWorld trips are just something extra special. We can also afford to hit up Disneyland on our non DisneyWorld years for a few days if we want to. Disneyland for us is a 1-3 day weekend getaway, where DisneyWorld feels like a more extravagant “big” Holliday that we very much enjoy. We have 3 daughters, 3, 7 and 25. The 25 year old has her girlfriend and they usually try and come with us when we go. We certainly plan on going to DisneyWorld every other year over the next 10 and likely 20+ years. We will likely always want a 2 bedroom as it gives our immediate 6 person crew room to spread and/or if we bring another family with us we can cram in, at least until the 3 and 7 year old outgrow smaller beds.

We have stayed at the GFV and at the Boardwalk. We liked the ability to walk to Epcot, but the elegance of the Grand is 2nd to none. We also ate at Victoria and Alberts and would certainly plan to do so again on each future visit. While we don’t need to be staying at the Grand to do so, it’s certainly convenient.

We can easily afford to rent points every other year, however, doing this we likely wouldn’t necessarily pay for the full cost of a 2 bedroom ourselves. We would split it with another family or make the 25 year old help cover some of the costs. If though, we purchased DVC to cover the points for a 2 bedroom, we would be happy to invite the 25 year old to come for free and either invite another family (friends or siblings) for free or extremely low rate, perhaps simply the years maintenance fee. Being able to do this, would feel great, especially as family vacations are very important to us. Since I work in education we can only really vacation during Thanksgiving week or Christmas break. From what I can gather, we would need 220 points a year to be able to have the 433 points for a 2 bedroom during the times we would need.

Doing a simple calculation, saying that inflation for both the cost to rental points and the cost of maintenance fees going up would be about the same: If we were to purchase 220 GFV points at $145/point (which is the average that the April ROFR thread listed) it would cost us $31,900. Even if we financed some of it for a short term our total could be around $34,068. Whit this in mind, I estimated out that for the full 46 years of the contract it would cost us $96,100 (not including rise in MF). If we simply rented the same points it would cost us $318,688 (not including rise in rental cost). That is a savings of $222,584 over the life of the contract. Since we are very likely planning to vacation every other year at DisneyWorld over the next 20 years at least the math seems to be a no brainer to me.

While I had looked at some of the other DVC resorts that would be less expensive upfront, when looking at the length of the contract compared to say BRV, BWV or BCV it’s difficult to dismiss the value over time that GFV has. The only thing that might change our thoughts of GFV would be if we wanted to get a Grand Villa at say Animal Kingdom. But I don’t see that as something we would need for maybe 20-30 years, when the 3 and 7 year old start families of their own. At which point, we could likely afford to add to our GFV points, or sell and then buy at AKV or who knows. As we would only possibly be looking into a Grand Villa in 20+ years, I can’t see getting into one of the DVC that only has 25 years on the contract.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
While buying is likely a good choice if you can plan 11 months out, pay cash and are OK with the compromises of a timeshare, I think your numbers don't reflect the true cost risk. Basically it seems you're overestimating your savings. Paying up front is a big difference and the risk in fees are guaranteed and substantial and almost certainly going to exceed any increase in rental costs. IMO the choice of use year and home resort is important from a financial perspective as well as for reservation options. If you'll travel yearly and only use at WDW and will stay mostly at VGF, I'd buy there. But if you want to try the resorts in general, I would see VGF as a poor option. Don't cut it too close on the number of points. Most should NOT take the charts and buy ONLY that amount of points for the days you are planning for. Whether this applies in your situation depends. If you're looking at studios or 2 BR (as you are), standard view, lower seasons or less than 7 days then one needs extra points. How much extra depends but usually between 10 & 20%. One option is to look at 2 different home resorts. It may increase your real cost but give you other options or save you money over time depending.

Will you continue to go to DL? If so you may want to consider points there and forego the VGF option. You could still go to WDW with the points but likely not get VGF. Don't rush to get that next trip on points, the savings for a single trip is negligible and not worth making a poor decision for.
 
While buying is likely a good choice if you can plan 11 months out, pay cash and are OK with the compromises of a timeshare, I think your numbers don't reflect the true cost risk. Basically it seems you're overestimating your savings. Paying up front is a big difference and the risk in fees are guaranteed and substantial and almost certainly going to exceed any increase in rental costs. IMO the choice of use year and home resort is important from a financial perspective as well as for reservation options. If you'll travel yearly and only use at WDW and will stay mostly at VGF, I'd buy there. But if you want to try the resorts in general, I would see VGF as a poor option. Don't cut it too close on the number of points. Most should NOT take the charts and buy ONLY that amount of points for the days you are planning for. Whether this applies in your situation depends. If you're looking at studios or 2 BR (as you are), standard view, lower seasons or less than 7 days then one needs extra points. How much extra depends but usually between 10 & 20%. One option is to look at 2 different home resorts. It may increase your real cost but give you other options or save you money over time depending.

Will you continue to go to DL? If so you may want to consider points there and forego the VGF option. You could still go to WDW with the points but likely not get VGF. Don't rush to get that next trip on points, the savings for a single trip is negligible and not worth making a poor decision for.

All of the above. Also, VGF can be sneaky. We just closed (like 5 months ago) on a VGF contract that we carefully considered the whole "buy a few extra points as a cushion" and are in ROFR on another 100 points. And while we have stayed at VGF before, we haven't yet stayed on our own points!

As Dean says, paying a premium price per point for VGF to stay at other resorts seems like a poor use of $ - we certainly plan to use our VGF points to stay mainly, if not exclusively, at VGF. But we've also had a lot of trips to WDW over the years, and know that that's our favorite resort after having stayed at the majority of the deluxe resorts. And we have a "cheaper" BLT contract that we will use for BLT and "sleeping around." As @Dean says, you may want to consider 2 home resorts, like VGF and either AKL, BLT or SSR. You could use them in alternate years, or use them for split stays - VGF + ____. We have 2 little kids, too, and 2/3 of our recent stays have been split stays (3-4 nights at each resort). It's not too bad to move between resorts, and this way you won't feel pressured to only use your points at VGF since you paid top dollar for them.
 
While buying is likely a good choice if you can plan 11 months out, pay cash and are OK with the compromises of a timeshare, I think your numbers don't reflect the true cost risk. Basically it seems you're overestimating your savings. Paying up front is a big difference and the risk in fees are guaranteed and substantial and almost certainly going to exceed any increase in rental costs. IMO the choice of use year and home resort is important from a financial perspective as well as for reservation options. If you'll travel yearly and only use at WDW and will stay mostly at VGF, I'd buy there. But if you want to try the resorts in general, I would see VGF as a poor option. Don't cut it too close on the number of points. Most should NOT take the charts and buy ONLY that amount of points for the days you are planning for. Whether this applies in your situation depends. If you're looking at studios or 2 BR (as you are), standard view, lower seasons or less than 7 days then one needs extra points. How much extra depends but usually between 10 & 20%. One option is to look at 2 different home resorts. It may increase your real cost but give you other options or save you money over time depending.

Will you continue to go to DL? If so you may want to consider points there and forego the VGF option. You could still go to WDW with the points but likely not get VGF. Don't rush to get that next trip on points, the savings for a single trip is negligible and not worth making a poor decision for.

Thanks this is great info to reflect on. We will still likely do DL trips, but for us, that is more of a spur of the moment 1-3 days at the most trip. Or we will go for Halloween time or sometimes for 2 days during Christmas season. Depending on when we go, for how long and what is available we will stay in everything from the Grand Californian to the super value hotels across the street. DL for us is more of a weekend getaway than a large planed "vacation" and we have easily gone over 100 times in the past 20 years.

WDW for us is our big vacation for a given year. We are flying a family of 4 or more from CA so there are added expenses where we would never go for less than 5 days and so far our trips have been for 7 nights. Having stayed at BWV and GFV and as we are likely going to WDW every 2 years for the next 10 to 20 or more years, DVC seems to make sense. Especially since we will be locked into going during Thanksgiving or Christmas.

We can pay cash upfront for our trips and really could continue to do that. What I was looking at more was that if we did purchase points for 2-BDR, we would be able to "gift" 1 of the rooms to our older daughter or a friend or family, family. Where normally we would split that cost.

I'm less worried about long term savings, though it seems to be very significant, rather that there will be year to year savings even at a small amount and/or we would be in accommodations that are very slightly above what we might otherwise pay for.
 



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