Thinking about buying into DVC

[tracyj]

My family (4 children and my husband and I) just returned from a week-long trip to Orlando. We stayed at a resort through my mother's timeshare (non- DVC) and went to a DVC open house. Our whole family (young kids inlcuded) just loved Disney World! We seem to be sold on buying into Saratoga Springs, but had some questions.

Although we like Saratoga Springs, we also like the proximity of the Beach Club Villas to Epcot, as well as some other Disney resorts, but don't know what number of points to buy into, whether to go through Disney or resale, or what points to use for 6 of us for a Disney Cruise (which sounds like our next vacation). What perks do you get for buying into Disney, or for adding on through Disney, and what kind of services do Member Services have (i.e. good deals on airline tickets to WDW). I see some things about annual passes, and other perks, but what are they? What about getting the shopping list to member services for groceries--does that include buying food such as meat or is it just convenience store stuff? What are the advantages? Also, what about using Holland America cruise lines through DVC--what kinds of points do they require? We have lots of questions, and have to get back to the DVC guide person on Monday about our decision if we want to use Disney financing. Help!
:jumping4:

 

[robinb]

Although we like Saratoga Springs, we also like the proximity of the Beach Club Villas to Epcot, as well as some other Disney resorts, but don't know what number of points to buy into, whether to go through Disney or resale, or what points to use for 6 of us for a Disney Cruise (which sounds like our next vacation).

First of all, Welcome to the DIS!!!

The best piece of advise is to buy where you want to stay. You can buy points at Beach Club Villas (BCV) on the resale market. I bought both my resales from the board sponser, The Resale Store. Othere resale agents are also good and I'm sure you'll get some other recommendations.

With 6 people, you'll need enough points to rent a 2 BR. The number of points you will need all depends on the time of year and how many days you will usually be staying. The minimum point purchase of 150 is too few for a 2 BR. You'll need a minimum of 270 points for a week in Adventure season all the way up to 462 points for Premium season (Easter, Christmas, New Year's). You'll probably want something inbetween. Here's a point chart: http://www.mouseplanet.com/dtp/dvc/7_DVCCharts/BCV_04_points.htm .

Many people here on the DIS DVC board (myself included) do not think that using points outside of the DVC resorts is cost effective. I would not recommend using points for a cruise.

What perks do you get for buying into Disney, or for adding on through Disney, and what kind of services do Member Services have (i.e. good deals on airline tickets to WDW). I see some things about annual passes, and other perks, but what are they? What about getting the shopping list to member services for groceries--does that include buying food such as meat or is it just convenience store stuff?

If you buy into DVC though Disney you have the opportunity to sell your first year's points back to Disney to bring the cost of the points down. You also do not pay a closing fee and Disney will finance your purchase.

Discounts include Annual Passes (new in 2005) and discounts on food and activities. Here's a link: http://allearsnet.com/pl/discounts.htm .

If you need more information, read more on this board. Also, you can check Mouse Planet: http://www.mouseplanet.com/dtp/dvc/ .

Good luck with your decision!

 

[FamilyGuy]

With 6 people, you'll need enough points to rent a 2 BR. The number of points you will need all depends on the time of year and how many days you will usually be staying. The minimum point purchase of 150 is too few for a 2 BR. You'll need a minimum of 270 points for a week in Adventure season all the way up to 462 points for Premium season (Easter, Christmas, New Year's). You'll probably want something inbetween. Here's a point chart: http://www.mouseplanet.com/dtp/dvc/7_DVCCharts/BCV_04_points.htm .

Many people here on the DIS DVC board (myself included) do not think that using points outside of the DVC resorts is cost effective. I would not recommend using points for a cruise.

I agree that using points outside the DVC resorts is not a good financial alternative. Paying cash will yield you the best deal on a cruise or any other non-DVC resort. Personally, I even find the GF or CR to be a better deal as a cash customer, particularly with AP discounts (when available).

That being said if getting the best deal for your money is not of the utmost importance. IE, you like the convenience of not having to pay cash or save up for a trip or shop for the best deal, then you may wish to use the DVC for your annual vacations (Disney cruise, DVC, and non Disney vacations). However, another alternative would be to use (initially) use the DVC only once every couple of years (by banking, and/or borrowing), and therefore you will not need as many points initially. You may very well end up adding more points at a later time.

If you buy into DVC though Disney you have the opportunity to sell your first year's points back to Disney to bring the cost of the points down. You also do not pay a closing fee and Disney will finance your purchase.

Actually, with the current promotion running at SS, you pay $95 per point and receive a $10 per point rebate (or credit), but you do not have to "sell back your first years points." You keep all first year points for your own use and pay a net of $85 per point.

 

[robinb]

Actually, with the current promotion running at SS, you pay $95 per point and receive a $10 per point rebate (or credit), but you do not have to "sell back your first years points." You keep all first year points for your own use and pay a net of $85 per point.

Isn't that the pre-sale price for the next phase of SSR? If so, you won't get your first points until mid 2005 and you can't borrow.

 

[tjkraz]

...or what points to use for 6 of us for a Disney Cruise (which sounds like our next vacation).

Using DVC points toward a cruise is not a good move from a financial perspective. If you assign an approximate value of $10 per point, per year (which is what points tend to rent for on the secondary market), you would find that paying cash for a cruse costs much less.

What perks do you get for buying into Disney...

The main advantage is convenience. You can buy into DVC with a single phone call and even make your first reservation immediately. DVC will finance the purchase for you at a fairly competitive rate. Also, points at SSR are generally only available direct from DVC, and only that resort carries the 2054 expiration date. All other resorts have ownership that ends in 2042.

Buying a resale is like buying a home. You need to find a seller (typically with the help of a broker), negotiate on the terms and sign a contract. Then the contract goes to DVC who has the option of exercising Right of First Refusal. To be blunt, if DVC thinks the terms of the contract you negotiated are too favorable, they will simply take the contract themselves at your negotiated price and you get nothing. A resale will likely save you a few dollars per point, but you'll need to finance yourself (or pay cash) and will take much more time and energy than buying direct.

...or for adding on through Disney...

Adding on is typically as easy as the initial purchase. One phone call and you're done. But, if you're wanting points at any resort other than SSR, you may have to wait weeks or months for Disney to acquire the points that match your resort and Use Year needs.

You can also add-on via a resale. That will leave you with completely separate contracts, which can be something of an administrative headache. But it's nothing you can't overcome if you are careful.

...and what kind of services do Member Services have (i.e. good deals on airline tickets to WDW).

MS can book rental cars and (I believe) airfare. But don't expect any exclusive deals. They simply act as a travel agency and pass along the pricing at cost. DVC does not discount these items as a "perk" for its members.

To answer your "what is Member Services" question, it's basically our communications link with DVC. They handle all reservations, point banking and borrowing, and so forth. MS can also get Priority Seating for members, which can be nice since it's a toll free call rather than 407-WDW-DINE.

What about getting the shopping list to member services for groceries--does that include buying food such as meat or is it just convenience store stuff?

Member Services doesn't handle that--the resort does. I believe it's a service available to all resort guests, it just so happens that the grocery lists are on the member web site.

Don't get the impression that they will run to Publix for you. The items available for delivery are the same items that are stocked in the gift shop / general store at all DVC resorts. There are probably 50-75 items for each resort. You'll find all of the staples like milk, OJ, fruit, soda...on up to frozen pizza, Pop Tarts and cold cereal.

You'll still pay the standard Disney prices for each item, which is 1.5 - 2 times normal grocery store prices. And there is a flat $5 charge added-on for room delivery.

You can save yourself the $5 by just picking up the items when you arrive. And you can save even more by shopping at Pubix.

Convenience is the only advantage I can think of here.

We have lots of questions, and have to get back to the DVC guide person on Monday about our decision if we want to use Disney financing.

You shouldn't have to decide immediately if you want DVC financing...they will offer financing to anyone, anytime (pending credit approval.) But if you took the tour, I suspect there may be a time limit imposed if you wish to take advantage of the $10 per point credit.

If this is true, and if you are reasonably certain that DVC is right for you, here is what I would recommend. Call DVC before your deadline and place a deposit on your ownership. That will lock in the promotional discount before their deadline expires. You will be asked to give DVC a relatively small deposit (usually $500) on your credit card.

At this point, there is absolutely no commitment on your part. DVC will issue your purchase agreements and other paperwork and forward to you via Fed Ex. You can sit on that paperwork for a month if you wish. Take that time to research DVC further and even the resale market if necessary.

When you are ready to move forward, sign the paperwork and send it back with the balance of your deposit.

If you decide to go the resale route, call DVC and tell them you changed your mind. You will get the entire $500 back and you can then move forward on the resale.

The key is to give DVC the verbal go-ahead before your deadline passes. If that date should pass without any action on your part, you will likely be stuck paying full price if you ever decide you want to buy points at SSR.

Good luck and feel free to ask other questions.

 

[Beca]

tjkraz gave you some very good advice. We did just that...we had our SSR papers in hand while we were still researching the resorts...we ultimately decided that SSR was not for us, and we went the resale route (although, SSR does have a lot to offer...the least of which is another 12 years for about the same price.

Here's my 2 cents on Beach Club...it is a BEAUTIFUL resort..we are currently trying to add-on via DVC there ourselves. It is the second smallest "on site" DVC property, and is extremely popular. We were told by our guide to expect a MINIMUM 8-12 month wait list, and I have heard that some guides will put you on the waitlist as a new member, while others will not...if you want/need to go via DVC for Beach Club...make sure (up front) that your guide will get you on this list, and remember...there are NO incentives for "sold out resorts".

If you choose to buy BCV via resale...all I can say is, "Grab one when you see it". Those contracts go VERY quickly. You really might want to get on the lists at several of the reseller sites...you will get a contract much more quickly than thru DVC, but with DVC all contracts come with full current points. With resale contracts, BCV contracts are often "stripped", and after you pay the "premium" price for BCV, and then pay closing costs...you are paying almost, if not the same, that DVC is selling them for ($89 per point for sold-out resorts). Just be aware that BCV points are hard to come by, and getting them can be a bit of a race.

That being said...if that is where you want to stay...GO FOR IT!!! With BCV being one of the smallest resorts, and with the DVC member base growing at an alarming rate...getting into BCV without the 11 month advantage could become a tricky thing to do in a few years. The motto of this board is "buy where you want to stay"...and, I for one think it is a pretty good motto!!!

Good luck, and please let us know what you decide,



Beca

 

[tracyj]

Thanks for the input. My husband and I are trying to decide what to do. For our budget, we are thinking of buying the initial 150 points and like SSR because of having 50 years of vacations (well, 49 after January 1st), but we want to stay at BVC rather than SSR and want to bank our points for a vacation in early December 2006 at BVC. After reading some of your posts, we might have some problems with losing our points if we have a June use year (is that right?) and can't book more than 7 months ahead if not at SSR. The reason we would like BVC is the proximity to Epcot, which is our favorite place. Is there a way we could buy in at SSR and bank our points for BVC in Dec. 2006? Could we ask our guide to see if DVC offers resale directly for BVC after we buy in, in order to get a reservation at a "home" resort that far in advance? Do we have to do the resale thing for an extra 50 points at BVC to get a reservation, and if so, can we use all our points (theoretically 150 at SSR and 50 at BCV?)

As for having a yearly vacation nearby (we live in St. Louis), our thinking is to maybe buy a resale timeshare for Lake of the Ozarks and use that in off-years when not at WDW.

Sorry for the confusion, it seems for me there is a steep learning curve with this.

 

[robinb]

If you bank your SSR June 2005 points into June 2006 you'll have to use your June 2005 points by the end of May 2007. You can plan on using them for early December 2006 at BCV, but be aware that early December is a very busy time for DVC. I think it's because the point costs are really low and all the Christmas decorations are up. There is a chance that you will not get what you want with your SSR points since you have to wait until the 7 month booking window. Even if you get a 50 point add-on, only those points can be used at the 11 month window.

Since you seem to really want to stay at BCV, I will recommend again that you buy a BCV resale. I would call a couple of resale agents and let them know what you're looking for. Many choice contracts are sold without being listed on the websites. My BWV resale was one of them .

 

[tjkraz]

I totally agree with Robinb's comments, and just want to add two more of my own:

1. As you're trying to decide on a Home resort, remember to think "big picture." This is a commitment for the next 40-50 years. In your post you make frequent mention of this December '06 trip. While there's nothing wrong with advance planning, remember this decision will impact your vacations for as long as 5 decades--that includes a period long after your 4 children are grown and out of the nest.

I always recommend choosing a Home resort primarily on the basis of what is right for you and your significant other. You'll frequently have the opportunity to book other resorts at the 7 month window which may better suit your vacations with young kids. But remember those kiddies won't be young forever.

2. If you decide to go with a resale, just be aware that you need to pay cash or finance the entire purchase independently. Home equity loans are a very affordable way to do this, and the interest is tax deductible. But if you try to get a loan from your bank specifically for a timeshare purchase, many of them will turn you down flat due to the risks inherent to many other timeshare purchases.

 

[bongo59]

well i will disagree...........i would buy the 150 from disney at SSR and i would add on at the BCV for 50 on a resale...........that way you get your 11 month window cheaper but you can pay the SSR points to stay at the BCV..........plus you will likely need a min of 160 points right now..........160 points gets you one week in a one bedroom anywhere in the DVC family of resorts.......in the los seasons of course............that way you kill two birds with one stone

 

[tjkraz]

i would buy the 150 from disney at SSR and i would add on at the BCV for 50 on a resale...........that way you get your 11 month window cheaper but you can pay the SSR points to stay at the BCV

Yeah, but you can only use the 50 BCV points to book BCV at 11 months. Banking and borrowing can raise that number, but only once every 2-3 years depending on the number used. To use the SSR points at BCV, you still have to wait until the 7 month window.

Personally, I think many people take the Home resort issue far too seriously. But to each his own. If a potential member thought that he/she would spend the vast majority of their trips in the same resort, it only makes sense to buy at that resort.

On the other hand, for those who are like me and really don't have their heart at a single property, there are many advantages to buying SSR direct from DVC.

 

[bongo59]

well we have used this technique alot over the last 10 yrs and it has never failed..........we now own a little piece of every DVC resort because of this technique and larger chunks at the places we really like.

 

[tjkraz]

well we have used this technique alot over the last 10 yrs and it has never failed...

I never meant to imply that it wouldn't work...just wanted to make sure tracyj understands that 150 SSR pts and 50 BCV points don't get you 200 to book at BCV at 11 mos.

 

[tracyj]

First, thanks for all your advice! We are really torn. We definitely want to get into DVC, but where? We are leaning towards getting in at SSR for 150 points with DVC because of the perks and financing. but are frightened by all the talk of home resorts and reservation windows. We really appreciate the comments!!! You all picked up on our fixation on December '06 and BCR! What is driving that fixation is our desire to vacation regularly in December and the apparent accesibility of BCR to both Epcot and MGM (not to mention the magic kingdom) for our four kids (the ability to return to the room for an afternoon nap, etc.). If we buy at SSR, how difficult will it be for us to get a week at BCV in December, or conversely, how accessible is SSR to Epcot and the Magic Kingdom (I understand its a boat ride and a monorail ride - how many minutes are we talking about versus BCR)? The thought has occured to us to that SSR might well be a very desireable place for us and our kids LONG TERM.

 

[Laurabearz]

The OP said she is a family of 6.... 50 points at any resort doesnt go far when your booking a 2 bedroom.... I would find one home resort and stick with it for add on's under 100-150 range. Some people enjoy changing resorts during their stay... booking each resort 11 months out. Spices things up.... I know that right now we will not move mid trip, but when the kids are more independent we will split our stays.

Here is a link to Caskbills planner... Play around with it to get a better idea of how many points you think you will need and go from there. http://web.nalu.net/~wneth/dvcplanner.htm

Oh and WELCOME TO THE DIS!

Please ask as many questions as you need, as you can see we all have something to say about just about everything and all of us, were where you are at some point.

 

[bongo59]

the more info she drops the more i think she needs at least 300 points at the BCV.............BCV is very hard to get in DEC

 

[tjkraz]

...but are frightened by all the talk of home resorts and reservation windows.

Many members will book a room at their Home resort right at 11 months, just to guarantee that they have A room...any room. They will then try to move that reservation to another resort when the 7 month window opens. DVC makes this a very painless process.

So, IMO, the first question you should ask yourself is whether you feel any stay in which you are "stuck" with SSR would be a disappointment. If so, then definitely look elsewhere.

If you read enough on these boards, you'll pick up on a lot of doom and gloom regarding the ability to book non-Home resorts--particularly as the program adds more and more members. I won't give you chapter and verse on my take. The Cliff's Notes version is this: I believe that if you are prepared to call RIGHT AT 7 months to move your reservation to another resort, and to go on the waiting list if necessary, you will rarely be disappointed.

Some would call that POV naive on my part--but right now we're all making educated guesses. There really isn't much difficulty booking non-Home resorts now. The main question is to what degree that situation will change as DVC adds more and more members at SSR.

All of that said, December is definitely one of the more difficult months to book. So, if you view December as a recurring vacation month for your family, that's all the more reason to choose your Home resort carefully.

If we buy at SSR, how difficult will it be for us to get a week at BCV in December

Well, let's just say that it will never be easy. If you call right at 7 months, you may get lucky and can book immediately. More likely you will be forced to go on the waiting list. But 7 months is an awful lot of time for other folks' plans to change and free up a room for you.

Also, don't forget about the Boardwalk Villas, which are right across the water from BCV. Unless you have your heart set on the Stormalong Bay pool complex or some other aspect exclusive to BCV, you've really got about 600 rooms at both BCV and BWV with the same proximity to Epcot and MGM.

...or conversely, how accessible is SSR to Epcot and the Magic Kingdom (I understand its a boat ride and a monorail ride - how many minutes are we talking about versus BCR)?

SSR has dedicated bus service to all 4 theme parks, water parks and Downtown Disney. While the Disney bus service isn't always ideal, it is far and away the most frequently used transportation option in all of WDW. Most of the 20+ resorts rely entirely on bus transportation.

Transportation really is a tough topic to discuss because there are so many variables. If you arrive at the SSR bus stop just as the MGM bus arrives, you could easily be at the theme park in 10 minutes. But, if you just miss the boat to MGM at the BCV dock, it could easily be 20+ minutes before you arrive at the park.

IMO, BCV and BWV really shine due to the walking distance to the parks. The boats are unreliable. But if you're willing to walk a little more and/or like to take spur-of-the-moment trips, then those locations are nice. Depending on your room location, you can get from BCV to Epcot in about 5-10 minutes, or MGM in about 20-25. BWV is situated more in the middle of the two theme parks--about 10-15 to Epcot or 15-20 to MGM.

The thought has occured to us to that SSR might well be a very desireable place for us and our kids LONG TERM.

Be sure to factor that in, too. We loved our recent visit to SSR. On the other hand, I'd be lying if I said that I haven't considered adding points at the Boardwalk. We own at SSR, and in our first three trips we booked BWV twice, BCV once and SSR once (wanted to stay at SSR--didn't try to move to another resort.)

The real appeal to us of SSR (from a transportation standpoint) is its proximity to Downtown Disney. Admittedly it's attractive to be able to walk to Epcot and MGM 2 or 3 times during our stay. But Downtown Disney is an even more frequent destination. Between the shopping, dining and other activities available, it's not a stretch to say that we could be at DD every night of a given trip.

We timed our walk to DD from SSR on a recent stay. It was less than 5 minutes on foot from DD to the closest resort building. Walking from DD to our actual room (which was in the 2nd furthest building from DD, 2nd floor) it took a total of 12 minutes. It proved to be a pretty nice perk, and would have been even better if the temps hadn't gotten down into the 40s every night.

Unfortunately there's no magic formula for choosing a Home resort. Some have higher maintenance fees than others. Some are harder to acquire than others. And obviously they all have their own plusses and minuses. And, in the end, you may find that you guessed wrong and like a different resort than the one you select as your Home. I guess that's why God (and DVC) created add-ons.

 

[robinb]

The Cliff's Notes version is this: I believe that if you are prepared to call RIGHT AT 7 months to move your reservation to another resort, and to go on the waiting list if necessary, you will rarely be disappointed.
{snip}
All of that said, December is definitely one of the more difficult months to book. So, if you view December as a recurring vacation month for your family, that's all the more reason to choose your Home resort carefully.

I agree with your comments about the 7 month booking window and about December. I have had very little trouble booking at any DVC resort using my OKW or BWV points. Including BCV twice. However, when we decided that we wanted to stay at BWV every New Year's Eve in a Standard View we bought 200 points at BWV. We knew that any room at BWV for NYE at the 7 month window was problematic and a Standard View is almost impossible to get outside the 11 month window.

Also, don't forget about the Boardwalk Villas, which are right across the water from BCV. Unless you have your heart set on the Stormalong Bay pool complex or some other aspect exclusive to BCV, you've really got about 600 rooms at both BCV and BWV with the same proximity to Epcot and MGM.

And it's much easier to get a resale at BWV than BCV .

 

[NMW]

We too always prefer to vacation the beginning of Dec. We ALSO love the Epcot location. Both the BC and BWI became my 2 fav resorts to stay in because how easy it was to get to Epcot and MGM. This from a person who only wanted to ever stay at the POLY! Epcot is DH's fav park and you can walk into it in minutes and the boat to MGM is really fast. The MK bus ride wasn't ever too bad for us. The morning ones for people who have PS's for the breakfasts are really, really great in fact. AK bus ride is fine too. The only bus ride that stinks is downtown Disney at night. We looked at SSR but, after reading about how difficult it can be to get early Dec at these resorts we decided to buy resale at either BCV or BWV. We bought a BWV resale and we are getting ready to book our Dec 2005 vacation pretty soon. MS suggested that I do it day by day, so that is what I am going to do.
If that is really where you want to stay and you love early Dec like we do, buy at one of those resorts. When your kids are older and you want to be close to Downtown Disney just book SSR at 7 months. Based on the size of SSR, I think if you wanted to book it at the 7 month window, even in Dec, you'd probably get it most of the time.
We used the Timeshare store for our resale and they were great! Good luck! I hope everything works out for you.

 

[caracarn]

One never can guarantee availability, but just as a point of reference, our home resort if VWL, and we decided to try BCV this time around. We did not decide this until well into the 7 month window. I think we were going in December and decided to try to switch to BCV in September. We were placed on a wait list and by the end of October I had everything I had wanted in BC. We traded two studios, one for 10 days and one for 5 and again, while it took about 6 weeks of waitlisting, getting a day at a time every few days, it all came through and with nearly 2 months to spare.

I do find that waitlisting for an entire stay is more difficult. If you are willing to take the chance of not having a night come in here or there, then do what we did and just grab days as they come. I do think if I had waited for a full 10 day block to open all at once that I might not have gotten in.