Theatre-ish photo question - updated 11/9/06

[Snurk71]

I have a question on taking photos in a theatre for a bodybuilding contest. The contest will be held in a smaller theatre – the size you would have at a community college. The audience area will be dark to dimly lit, the stage will have some light from above, but also light shown on the competitors from the front of the stage floor (better not to create shadows on the competitors shining from above).

I’m still going to be using a P&S (DW is balking at the XT because I buy a lot of electronic toys). I haven’t had a lot of luck in the past using the auto setting on the P&S – shots usually come out blurred.

So my question is what type of settings would be best for this kind of shot. The camera has ISO only up to 400, can turn the flash off (will probably be around 20-30 ft from the competitors), don't remember the aperature setting off the top of my head, shutter speed from 1/600 to maybe 2.

Suggestions?

Thanks

 

[Kelly Grannell]

Set ISO to 400, use spot metering (if available), if not use partial metering... and hope for the best.

 

[JR6ooo4]

If the background is dark then filling the frame with "Body" will give more light for the camera.

Look for the posing pauses to get a shot. Use a tripod if the shutter is longer than 1/60 for those shots. If you want to freeze any action the shutter must be much quicker.

Mikeeee

 

[ukcatfan]

This makes me feel like popping in my copy of "Pumping Iron" If you ever have a chance, go to the Arnold Classic. It is an incredible experience. I met Lou Ferrigno, Dorian Yates, and Monica Brant there.

Good luck with the pics.

Kevin

 

[Kelly Grannell]

One thing for sure, you can't use something like Panasonic Lumix TC-1 due to its severe digital noise level.

 

[mabas9395]

If you did have an XT that could go up to ISO 1600 and an IS lens, you could take pictures like this. Not that they are perfect, but I was very impressed with how my set up handled this theatre-ish environment. They're from the Aladin show at California Adventure.

 

[alan]

If you can, use a tripod.

regards,
/alan

 

[Snurk71]

Thanks for the feedback. A few more questions based on your comments...

1) I'd prefer not to lug a tripod. Will a monopod do okay (I know it's not as stable as a tri, but better than my shaky hands)?

2) Flash or no flash? I don't think my flash will get to the subject area on stage.

3) Focus - I've read Kelly's instructions to stay away from multi point focus. Should I stick with the center focus, set the focus at the 7 meter setting on the camera (hoping to be about 20 ft away), or go to no focus (the ellipsis setting)? If it makes a difference, I will not only be taking shots of an individual, but will also want shots of the whole lineup of competitors (maybe 5 - 8 at a time).

Thanks

 

[Snurk71]

If you ever have a chance, go to the Arnold Classic. It is an incredible experience.

DW went to the Arnold a couple of years ago. She said it was an experience - the size and variety of the event was quite a spectacle to see and experience. DW is actually the one competing that I'll be taking pictures of. Kansas City in September and NYC in November.

 

[ukcatfan]

Tell her that the Disboards wish her luck!

Try to post some pictures after the competition.


One of the best things with The Arnold is the exposition. I came home with four new shaker bottles, about a dozen MRPs and bars, and a couple pounds of protein powder.

 

[Kelly Grannell]

Thanks for the feedback. A few more questions based on your comments...

1) I'd prefer not to lug a tripod. Will a monopod do okay (I know it's not as stable as a tri, but better than my shaky hands)?

2) Flash or no flash? I don't think my flash will get to the subject area on stage.

3) Focus - I've read Kelly's instructions to stay away from multi point focus. Should I stick with the center focus, set the focus at the 7 meter setting on the camera (hoping to be about 20 ft away), or go to no focus (the ellipsis setting)? If it makes a difference, I will not only be taking shots of an individual, but will also want shots of the whole lineup of competitors (maybe 5 - 8 at a time).

Thanks

1. Monopod should be okay

2. If you're sure the flash is strong enough, then by all means, if allowed, go ahead and use it

3. The elipsis setting means it's running all points of focus, IIRC. I still prefer centre focus on the subject NEAREST to me and shoot. If your camera has A-DEP setting, then use that instead of centre focus. It'll adjust focus and depth of field to get everybody in focuse as much as the camera can.

 

[0bli0]

it's going to be difficult with the p&s because of the way they meter and the range of apertures. centre spot focus on a dslr let's you focus on something which is in the centre of the lens as you are looking at the stage. this is highly effective where you have a large aperture lens as the depth of field is shallow.

i've shot body building and fitness dance comps and it's far easier than shooting concerts. the contestants generally hold poses. i generally use my 135 f2 L but sometimes i also use the 80-200 f2.8 L. i wouldn't personally recommend a flash, but on the p&s, you probably won't have a choice.

edit: a monopod will only give you about a stop and a bit.

 

[Snurk71]

Thanks for all of the above suggestions. The pictures I got from the P&S were fair. I think the lower than I would have liked quality is due to the restrictions of the P&S and not on my understanding and settings (at least, that's what I'm going with).

However...

I talked DW into letting me get a Rebel XT (sigma 18-125). I've played with the camera for a while now, and get most of the general concepts I need to work. DW has another contest this weekend and I thought I would check to see if any of the above advice changes or if anyone else has anything different to share now that I'll be using a DSLR instead of a P&S.

I'll still be using a monopod or hand held (not taking a tripod).

The only other pertinent thing I can think of to mention is that I'd like to go back and forth from wide group shots of the entire lineup, and focusing in for individual competitor shots. So I'll be going back and forth quickly from 18mm/3.5 to 80mm/5.0(???) to 18mm/3.5, etc.

Thanks

 

[handicap18]

Congrats on the new camera.

Somethingn to think about getting to compliment your current lens set up is the 50mm f/1.8. Its a prime so no zooming without using your feet, but it is relatively inexpensive. Can be had online for about $70-80. Ritz Camera has them for a little more than $80 (though you might have to check a few different stores, I couldn't find the Nikon version in 4 of their stores, but Canon stock maybe different). Also any other larger Camera/Photo stores in your area should also carry it.

With the crop factor, your getting the equilivent of an 80mm lens. Plus because it is so sharp you can easily do more cropping in post processing and still get excellent results. The wider aperture will definately make a difference, just be sure that your focus is right on because at such a wide aperture there is no depth of field.

Good luck and have fun!

 

[ukcatfan]

With your new DSLR, you can use a higher ISO and still get acceptable results. I would also shoot in RAW because you can always pull a little more out of the pic if it is underexposed than you can with JPG.

Kevin

 

[rtphokie]

Thanks for the feedback. A few more questions based on your comments...

1) I'd prefer not to lug a tripod. Will a monopod do okay (I know it's not as stable as a tri, but better than my shaky hands)?

A monopod would help but I hate lugging those on vacation too. Use a seatback in front of you to steady the camera on, even better than a monopod.

2) Flash or no flash? I don't think my flash will get to the subject area on stage.

Definately no flash. Not only is it obnoxious in a theater setting of any kind. It will put a pure white light on the subject which will look harsh and artificial. Take advantage of the stage lighting, it provides more than just light to see by, it provides the mood the designer intended.

3) Focus - I've read Kelly's instructions to stay away from multi point focus. Should I stick with the center focus, set the focus at the 7 meter setting on the camera (hoping to be about 20 ft away), or go to no focus (the ellipsis setting)? If it makes a difference, I will not only be taking shots of an individual, but will also want shots of the whole lineup of competitors (maybe 5 - 8 at a time).

I dont bother with multipoint focus either. Stick with center focus, center on the subject you want in focus, let autofocus do it's magic and then switch to manual focus and dont touch it again. You are then free to frame the shot. Quicker and easier than multipoint focus in my book. Just make sure you are putting the camera in the same spot each time for subsequent shots. (This where a tripod would help.)

 

[Snurk71]

Stick with center focus, center on the subject you want in focus, let autofocus do it's magic and then switch to manual focus and dont touch it again. You are then free to frame the shot. Quicker and easier than multipoint focus in my book. Just make sure you are putting the camera in the same spot each time for subsequent shots. (This where a tripod would help.)

Interesting idea. Seems like that would save the camera from re-autofocusing on each shot.

1) I wouldn't keep the same focus with zooming in and out from the whole lineup to individual shot though, right? So I'm not sure this will work in this scenario.

I guess my main concern is zooming back and forth from the whole line to individual. I'd like to shoot at the lowest ISO possible to keep the noise down (when doing comparisons on something like bodybuilding, you want to have as crisp of a picture as possible to look for the smallest differences in leanness, muscle, etc).

2) Will I have much exposure change in keeping the same ISO and shutter speed at the wide shots vs. the individual shots (aperature will close down with the zoom, right?)?

I'm going to have to zoom in and out pretty quickly. Each pose isn't held for probably more than 10 seconds. So I won't have time to take a picture, switch ISO and shutter speed, and take another shot in that 10 seconds. I might be able to change the shutter speed quickly on the dial, but that's about it. I was leaning towards having the settings (shutter and ISO) set for the zoomed in shots at the smaller aperature and hope I get decent exposure on each type of shot (zoomed in, zoomed out).

3) Any more thoughts/comments on the A-DEP setting? I haven't used or played around with that at all.

 

[JR6ooo4]

Interesting idea. Seems like that would save the camera from re-autofocusing on each shot.

1) I wouldn't keep the same focus with zooming in and out from the whole lineup to individual shot though, right? So I'm not sure this will work in this scenario.
Well it is good to refocus. If I halfpress and wait more than a second while shooting anything with action I will release and refocus to make sure of the focus point


I guess my main concern is zooming back and forth from the whole line to individual. I'd like to shoot at the lowest ISO possible to keep the noise down (when doing comparisons on something like bodybuilding, you want to have as crisp of a picture as possible to look for the smallest differences in leanness, muscle, etc).

2) Will I have much exposure change in keeping the same ISO and shutter speed at the wide shots vs. the individual shots (aperature will close down with the zoom, right?)?

I'm going to have to zoom in and out pretty quickly. Each pose isn't held for probably more than 10 seconds. So I won't have time to take a picture, switch ISO and shutter speed, and take another shot in that 10 seconds. I might be able to change the shutter speed quickly on the dial, but that's about it. I was leaning towards having the settings (shutter and ISO) set for the zoomed in shots at the smaller aperature and hope I get decent exposure on each type of shot (zoomed in, zoomed out).

3) Any more thoughts/comments on the A-DEP setting? I haven't used or played around with that at all.

A-dep is automatic depth of field, correct? If so it will use all the focus points to determine the depth of field then adjust the camera to keep all the focus points in focus and then also properly exposed. So if one focus point is all the way on the background it wil try to set the DOF that deep. To get deep depth of field (DOF) the camera will set the aperture to a higher number, which is a smaller hole so less light gets in. Which means it takes longer for the ideal exposure. Which also means a longer shutter which means motion blurrrrrrrrrr.

I like shooting with Aperture Value. Low number is short DOF and quick shutter. Good for one person posing. High number for deep DOF if more people are on stage, Like three rows deep. But again it will need a longer shutter speed.
Set the AV to the lowest number and shoot some test shots then check the histogram for exposure. If any of the graph is going over the top it is overexposed. Then adjust using the exposure adjustment to darken, or lighten the scene.

Mikeeee

 

[Snurk71]

I like shooting with Aperture Value. Low number is short DOF and quick shutter. Good for one person posing. High number for deep DOF if more people are on stage, Like three rows deep. But again it will need a longer shutter speed.Mikeeee

When I talk about shooting the whole line, I'm not referring to mulitple rows of people - but many people standing along the same line (wide enough to get 12 people in the same frame along a same line, say 30 feet from where I'll be shooting from). I don't know if this make a difference or not, as to do this I'll have a lot of dark space above the competitors. I'll be able to fill the frame with a person on the individual shots.

 

[ukcatfan]

You will need to consider the distance of each person to you for the DOF. If there are any other divisions before your wife's, take some practice shots to fine tune your settings. I would also think the closer to the middle that you are, the better. I don't know what the format is, but if there is a pose off, it would look nice to have one competitor in focus as the subject and for the others farther back to be out of focus.

Kevin