the why behind fastpass+

[clsteve]

For those continuing to talk about FP+ remaining an onsite only perk, it would seem that Disney's own marketing - the 2014 Vacation Planning DVD - would refute that.

In the DVD they talk about FP+, and they specifically define FP+ as the ability to prebook your favorite rides before your trip. They also specifically say that FP+ is included with theme park admission for all guests. There is no small print anywhere to say that this is an onsite only perk. Whereas when they describe EMH, there IS small print on the screen stating that it requires staying at a Disney resort.

Is it specifically spelled out saying "offsite guests will be able to prebook"? no, it isn't. But it is definitely worth noting that they do NOT indicate that FP+ requires an onsite stay, as they do for all of the other onsite perks they mention in the DVD.

It would be shocking if there wasn't some sort of advanced booking for off-site, at some point. They're too large a percentage of their revenue stream to completely cut them out.

Now, what they do to "lock them in" - time-limited MB's or tickets, will be interesting to see - along with what type of extra incentive they may give to on-site, like a longer booking window. tiering of resort types, etc.

 

[mom2rtk]

Now, what they do to "lock them in" - time-limited MB's or tickets, will be interesting to see - along with what type of extra incentive they may give to on-site, like a longer booking window. tiering of resort types, etc.

This is why I see advance booking coming for offsite. They are probably the most likely to wander off to other parks, so there is much to be gained from "locking in" this segment.

 

[clsteve]

This is why I see advance booking coming for offsite. They are probably the most likely to wander off to other parks, so there is much to be gained from "locking in" this segment.

Plus, this whole fiasco of huge lines at the kiosks we just saw isn't sustainable during the busy season. They've got to get a large percentage of those off-site guests booking in advance or there's going to be a riot when it gets hot......

 

[AthenaBolina]

Of course the rates are dropping. Who the hell can afford the deluxe resorts (GF, BC/YC/BW, Poly) in particular. The rack rate for those hotels is over 450 a night. Who the hell can afford that? The only reason I stay at those places is because I travel with 2/3 adults and we can split up the cost equally. But a working dad/mom who has to pay for a family of 4/5 and stays there. Hard to figure.

Id kill to stay at the poly again. But I stayed as a single widowed mom with four kids, and we did it as a once in a lifetime trip on the First anniversary of my husband passing. Plus we were pixi dusted with a lagoon view room! Now we're going back with my 2nd husband, but for 6 of us it's near impossible to stay anywhere but a value. The cabins beds are too small for my kids, so hopefully AOA will fit us. I have two teens, a 12 year old and an 8 year old. It's just too pricey otherwise, and we're still spending 8K on this week long trip with dining and airfare.

 

[mom2rtk]

Plus, this whole fiasco of huge lines at the kiosks we just saw isn't sustainable during the busy season. They've got to get a large percentage of those off-site guests booking in advance or there's going to be a riot when it gets hot......

I agree. I think even if that wasn't their plan, it would be now that they've seen how this is going. I also agree that adding heat to the situation is only going to make it worse.

 

[faneuil]

I also agree that adding heat to the situation is only going to make it worse.

Both literally and figuratively.

 

[JimmyV]

Plus, this whole fiasco of huge lines at the kiosks we just saw isn't sustainable during the busy season. They've got to get a large percentage of those off-site guests booking in advance or there's going to be a riot when it gets hot......

Right.

I agree. I think even if that wasn't their plan, it would be now that they've seen how this is going. I also agree that adding heat to the situation is only going to make it worse.

And right again. I have always been skeptical about the notion that this is in the "testing" phase. But I did see many suited CMs observing and assisting i-Pad CMs, trying to organize the kiosk chaos and quell the complaints of angry guests. So if there is any legitimacy to the notion of testing, the problem has been noted and changes have to come soon. The most obvious change would be to allow pre-booking. As I noted elsewhere, I was amazed at the ratio of i-Pads versus kiosks. And I doubt that they intend the CMs with i-Pads to be permanent fixtures. At some point, they are going to want to get this workforce back to doing what they usually do. That means that kiosks will be the only (or primary option). There aren't nearly enough kiosks to meet the demand on a busy day. They would need 10, maybe 20 times the number of kiosks in each park. That is a big capital expense. Easier to simply unlock the pre-booking option which is "free". Solves the problem of long lines. Solves the problem of having a paid workforce doing a secondary job. Solves the problem of intial kiosk costs plus future maintenance. All that said, I don't see a 60 Day window. Guests with plastic admission cards can come at their whim, and allowing them to book 60 days out will result in too many "I might go that day, so I better book Soarin'" FP+s. Maybe 10 days out is more realistic. Off site guests will not get the pick of the litter of FP+ return times, just as they don't get the pick of the litter of ADRs. Hard to argue against that.

 

[faneuil]

Guests with plastic admission cards can come at their whim, and allowing them to book 60 days out will result in too many "I might go that day, so I better book Soarin'" FP+s. Maybe 10 days out is more realistic. Off site guests will not get the pick of the litter of FP+ return times, just as they don't get the pick of the litter of ADRs. Hard to argue against that.

As a local AP holder, I would be delighted with 10 days. I usually make my Disney park day weekend plans early in the week, and I'm much more flexible with my times - but I'd still want the FP+ booked instead of having to run to a kiosk. We got a really nice CM w/ an iPad at the Studios a few weeks ago, but it was frustrating to need to do that. The only reason he wasn't busy was because it was raining.

I would have been happy being able to book FP+ with only 48-72 hours notice actually.

 

[JimmyV]

As a local AP holder, I would be delighted with 10 days. I usually make my Disney park day weekend plans early in the week, and I'm much more flexible with my times - but I'd still want the FP+ booked instead of having to run to a kiosk. We got a really nice CM w/ an iPad at the Studios a few weeks ago, but it was frustrating to need to do that. The only reason he wasn't busy was because it was raining.

I would have been happy being able to book FP+ with only 48-72 hours notice actually.

Didn't I read that AP holders do have some sort of window now, and that it rolls forward each day, or is that something else?

 

[faneuil]

Didn't I read that AP holders do have some sort of window now, and that it rolls forward each day, or is that something else?

If we do, I haven't received any communication from Disney about it. (SHOCKER) Disney's communication skills aren't the best though.

I can use it day of, in the parks, but so far, nothing else. Unless, of course, I book a hotel stay.

Just logged in and tried. Tells me I'm ineligible, then links me to reservations.Everything on the AP site says, "in the coming months", which it's said for nearly a year.

 

[JimmyV]

If we do, I haven't received any communication from Disney about it. (SHOCKER) Disney's communication skills aren't the best though.

I can use it day of, in the parks, but so far, nothing else. Unless, of course, I book a hotel stay.

Just logged in and tried. Tells me I'm ineligible, then links me to reservations.Everything on the AP site says, "in the coming months", which it's said for nearly a year.

Got it. Maybe it was during one of the Fall "testing phases".

 

[clsteve]

Right.


And right again. I have always been skeptical about the notion that this is in the "testing" phase. But I did see many suited CMs observing and assisting i-Pad CMs, trying to organize the kiosk chaos and quell the complaints of angry guests. So if there is any legitimacy to the notion of testing, the problem has been noted and changes have to come soon. The most obvious change would be to allow pre-booking. As I noted elsewhere, I was amazed at the ratio of i-Pads versus kiosks. And I doubt that they intend the CMs with i-Pads to be permanent fixtures. At some point, they are going to want to get this workforce back to doing what they usually do. That means that kiosks will be the only (or primary option). There aren't nearly enough kiosks to meet the demand on a busy day. They would need 10, maybe 20 times the number of kiosks in each park. That is a big capital expense. Easier to simply unlock the pre-booking option which is "free". Solves the problem of long lines. Solves the problem of having a paid workforce doing a secondary job. Solves the problem of intial kiosk costs plus future maintenance. All that said, I don't see a 60 Day window. Guests with plastic admission cards can come at their whim, and allowing them to book 60 days out will result in too many "I might go that day, so I better book Soarin'" FP+s. Maybe 10 days out is more realistic. Off site guests will not get the pick of the litter of FP+ return times, just as they don't get the pick of the litter of ADRs. Hard to argue against that.

This is where MB's might come in- MB's for purchase for off-site, which they've stated will happen. For this thing to work for them, the process must be more automated- they're getting killed on the Ops budget side right now.

You have to have an account on MDE for this to work and they have to lock you in to a range of dates.

MB's with a date-range would accomplish that.
They could even come pre-loaded with FP's. Think of:

• An EPCOT "Day One" and "Day Two" set of FP's: Soarin' one day TT the other
  
• An MK Day One "The Mountains" set of pre-loaded FP's
  
• An MK Day Two "Parades and Fireworks" set of per-loaded FP's
  
• Etc.

Disney accomplishes the lock-in goal and their goal of getting you in the Park they want when they want you there, as well.

The MB's for off-site could also be linked to a CC, also accomplishing their goal of increasing the spend rate.

Planning is overwhelming for first-timers, this would make it "easy". And, as important, it would help automate this. And , it would work for the BTG's - a huge part of their revenue stream. They can't keep throwing manpower at it forever....

 

[flicx]

They can't keep throwing manpower at it forever....

At some point they may have to stop. However with the magnitude of the investment they have now it really forces them to make it work. Even if it is an edsel!

 

[delmar411]

If we do, I haven't received any communication from Disney about it. (SHOCKER) Disney's communication skills aren't the best though.

I can use it day of, in the parks, but so far, nothing else. Unless, of course, I book a hotel stay.

Just logged in and tried. Tells me I'm ineligible, then links me to reservations.Everything on the AP site says, "in the coming months", which it's said for nearly a year.

Pretty sure a single night at a value during the cheap season would have been worth the advance booking ability.

Just because I'm a numbers girl....our magic bands cost us $15 each x 6 people.....which is what the night at the value resort cost us. I didn't need a hotel room but I wanted full FP+ access. Since we used the, every day in summer and use them every weekend since school is back in session plus DH and I use them at various times during the week when we go out together, I'd say that upfront cost has been well worth it.

 

[kidd_freeper]

Cost reduction

 

[sheetz]

If they are struggling so much to fill rooms, why would they be building so many new hotels all the time?

Disney is overwhelmingly building DVCs, where revenues are paid upfront. I'm not even sure how DVC occupancy is included in the overall vacancy rate.

The only actual Disney hotel opened in recent years is the AoA, which was the completion of a partially built resort that was halted post 9/11. So far it doesn't seem to have done anything to help resortwide occupancy rates.

 

[helenb]

Disney is overwhelmingly building DVCs, where revenues are paid upfront. I'm not even sure how DVC occupancy is included in the overall vacancy rate.

Also, with a few exceptions, non-DVC people always seem to be able to book DVC properties. I always see DVC properties when I do a hotel search at WDW, even during summer. So clearly these are not 'selling out'.

 

[JimmyV]

Also, with a few exceptions, non-DVC people always seem to be able to book DVC properties. I always see DVC properties when I do a hotel search at WDW, even during summer. So clearly these are not 'selling out'.

I confess that I don't know the whole business plan for DVC but I think "selling out" as you are using the term would require Disney to sell enough memberships such that every week of every year was accounted for, and every member booked often enough so as to fill every DVC resort with no rooms left over for the general public. I doubt that they could ever do this, or that they would ever want to. If DVC occupancy were stuffed so full, it would be virtually impossible for members to find convenient times to go. They would constantly get "fully booked" responses to their inquiries with "but we can take you from 1/5-1/12. Sorry, but that is all we have available." In order to keep members happy, there has to be sufficient leeway for booking, otherwise members would become irate and word of mouth would sink the ship. A traditional timeshare can fully book up since you "own" a specific week. But with DVC's flexibility has to come some sort of open space in the booking module or else you'd have to book years in advance to secure your preferred vacation week. Just thinking out loud here. But the math tells me that there will always be enough slack such that rooms show up in the general pool.

 

[delmar411]

Also, with a few exceptions, non-DVC people always seem to be able to book DVC properties. I always see DVC properties when I do a hotel search at WDW, even during summer. So clearly these are not 'selling out'.

These are completely different room pools. DVC members cannot access a cash room with their points. Disney retains ownership of a portion of each resort and that's what you see available for cash. The owner occupied portion of the resorts is full all the time and most resorts are completely sold out of points.