The we loooooove Club Wyndham Bonnet Creek Part 4

[Upatnoon]

I was just told by Michel Sullivan Wyndham has changed their booking policy as to personal use versus rental and we can only book 60 days in advance now for rentals. Anyone know what is up in more details?

Wyndham is rolling out a lot of changes that will impact the businesses that have turned timeshare renting into a business. The rules haven't started yet, but I appears it will be harder for those businesses to make much money as they have been unless they can somehow convince renters to pay more for those earlier reservations.

How will this impact renters? I think it will mean if you want to plan and book early, the big renters will likely want to charge more, especially in the short term.

With higher prices, there will likely be less early renting and thus perhaps more inventory available. That may create a scramble to rent as many units as possible late, which could drive the price down for those.

This is all speculation. It will be interesting to see what happens.

In the end, for timeshare renters, there are only two things to consider -- the price you negotiate and if you are comfortable renting from the person. Wyndham rules, super renter tricks, points calendars and all that stuff don't apply to renters. For renters, the only rules that really matter are supply and demand.

 

[BigredNole]

What will happen now is that the megarenters will just book all inventory at the hottest resorts, seek a premium, and if they can't get the premium dump inventory back at the 15-day mark. This will cause a massive glut of unused inventory and all of the VIP owners trying to offload discounted inventory inside 15-days. None of it will be guaranteed because none will book until they have cash in hand. By that time, the unit(s) could be gone.

 

[Cdn Gal]

That is vey true. When mega renters go and reserve the units they are to put it the guest's name. To change the guest name is $100. So even though they will continue to get great inventory they won't make nearly as much money on the deal since they can't use 50% less points on the cancel/rebook strategy, plus when they have a renter to change the name into that guests name will cost $100. Ultimately it means that the prices for renting will increase overall. Wyndham did this because they are trying to stop the mega renters. They could not sell timeshares when people would go to the meetings and say why should I buy when I can rent cheaper?

 

[Biggen]

Wanted to say that I also spoke with Michael Sullivan at WinPointVIP inc. over e-mail and I can confirm what MommyinHonduras said. Michael told me that if I want to book at Bonnet Creek (or any Wyndham property) more than 60 days out, then his cost of booking more than doubles. He also said this new "system" goes into effect on May 19 and its retroactive. He is having to eat the costs of the increase from Wyndham all those people he booked more than 60 days that already are in place. Said the whole thing is a totally disaster.

I'm going to have to figure out what to do now. I need a 3-bedroom at Bonnet Creek in January and I've always book through him for the last 5 years. I don't think it is wise to wait 60 days out as the 3-bedrooms are in short supply compared to the 1 and 2 bedrooms.

 

[Biggen]

For anyone else having issues booking at Bonnet Creek, check out Vacation Strategy. They were some able to get the bedroom that WinPointVIP couldn't get for the price I have always been paying. So who knows how or why they could but I just locked in a 3-bedroom for January through them.

 

[kangamangus]

Michael told me that if I want to book at Bonnet Creek (or any Wyndham property) more than 60 days out, then his cost of booking more than doubles.

Hold on. For those of us that went through VRBO a year out, for the sake of simplicity and security might now have to pay twice as much? All because the mega-renters are gaming the system too well? If that is true, then we will have to go back to renting a house. I don't see how this can be beneficial for Wyndham

 

[Cdn Gal]

That's terrific on getting the 3 bedroom!!! I know that over on TUG the mega renters are scrambling trying to figure out what to do to save their businesses. Part of the problem is, is that Wyndham never set it up for owners to create businesses within the system and to rent out points. It's on our contract actually that we not do it, however Wyndham has always looked the other way with the renters. But now their inventory is getting low, they are unable to sell timeshares because as I said it's cheaper to rent and they are getting bad reviews because some have paid thousands and thousands of dollars for their timeshare and when they go to book they can't because of less inventory. For us, this has never really affected us since we bought resale off of ebay, we plan waaaaaay in advance because we have to. We can only travel during peak times, and let's be honest, there are NO cheap flights out of Canada so to get a reasonable airfare you have to book almost a year in advance. I think that if people can plan ahead and firm up their reservations at a reasonable price now they should before the new changes takes place. I also hope that if people decide to purchase a timeshare they seriously do their due diligence and research, research, research. We knew exactly what we were getting into and have no regrets.

 

[Cdn Gal]

It's beneficial for Wyndham because they also rent so they can get rent off 1-2-3-4 bedrooms at a profit for themselves, they still get new people in to go on the tours and potentially buy then, and get inventory back into their system for the owners. We stayed at both the Hilton and WBC this past Christmas and we much prefer WBC. It was a nicer resort and less money. People will begin to pay what we pay, (maintenance fees for the points they use) plus a bit more (profit for megarenters).

 

[MommyinHonduras]

It's beneficial for Wyndham because they also rent so they can get rent off 1-2-3-4 bedrooms at a profit for themselves, they still get new people in to go on the tours and potentially buy then, and get inventory back into their system for the owners. We stayed at both the Hilton and WBC this past Christmas and we much prefer WBC. It was a nicer resort and less money. People will begin to pay what we pay, (maintenance fees for the points they use) plus a bit more (profit for megarenters).

What does that average for a week stay in a 3 bedroom look like based on point maintenance fees?

 

[DISfirstTimer]

I'm just getting ready to book WBC through Vacation Strategy. I'm confused is the price they quoted me likely to change?!?!

Also I was debating on a 1 BDR or 2 BDR for my family of 4. I like the option of a separate bedroom so we can put the kids to bed and sit up for a glass a wine and/or get ready for the next day etc. I had hoped the 1 BDRM would have 2 queen beds (it's not a concern for us to share a room) but then I learned it's a king in room and queen sleeper sofa in living room. I don't wish to sleep on sleeper sofa so I'm wondering do I pay more for a two bedroom or do you think it would be feasible for kids to be on sleeper sofa and still be able to be in kitchen etc without disturbing them or possibly have room to put an air mattress in bedroom for them to sleep on.

 

[BigredNole]

Michael told me that if I want to book at Bonnet Creek (or any Wyndham property) more than 60 days out, then his cost of booking more than doubles.

His cost does not more than double. What he is stating is that he is currently doing a Book/Rebook inside 60-days. At the 60-day mark it cost him HALF his points and a free upgrade (even less points to book). What he is not telling his renters is that he is taking $7/1,000 points. Lets take Prime season as an example. A 2BR Dlx is 224,000 points. He charges them $1,568 (assumes $7/1,000). He books it for them, collects his money, and sits. At the 60-day mark, he searches inventory, verifies a 1BR Dlx is available at 166,000 points. He cancels the 2BR Dlx, books the 1BR Dlx at 50% of the points + free upgrade to the 2BR Dlx. Now, he gets the 2BR Dlx for 83,000 points. The original renter is still paying $1,568. I am 100% sure he is not passing that discount to the renters. The new price would be $581.

Before the Wyndham changes, PlatVIP owners had a tremendous benefit using this system. They will still be able to use it, but not as easily. Prime season will be the most difficult because of limited inventory.

What he is complaining about now, is that he is not going to be able to get max use of his points. He will have to leave the reservation at 224,000 for the $1,568 he collected. They will figure out how to manage it. There are enough megarenters that will cause so many issues for Wyndham. They can simply take inventory in the highest demand places, hold it until the 15-day window, then dump it all back to Wyndham. They will also figure out how to manage the Wait Lists also knowing people are going to dump inventory. At the end of the day, if you are flexible, you will still get insane deals at the 2-week mark.

 

[BigredNole]

I'm just getting ready to book WBC through Vacation Strategy. I'm confused is the price they quoted me likely to change?!?!

You are signing a contract with a timeshare owner. There is always a risk, but it is less minor with the big companies. Everything people are talking about is the benefits the actual owner gets. They book you are room for XXX,000 points, you pay for it, all is good. What some owners don't say is that they then rebook it for less than 50% of the points and they make more money per point used. That means they can make ~3 reservations with the same number of points. In the example above, they would make $1,568 for each 83,000 point rental. That turns to ~$4,750 for 3 rentals totaling the same as just the initial rental. That alone almost covers the MFs of 1M+ points.

People need not worry about it. Let the timeshare owners get it all figured out. They were taking advantages of huge loopholes. They will still be able to book, but they will be limited to rebook inside 60-days. The waitlists will gobble up the rooms as they are freed up. That means someone else will be able to rent it.

 

[KristinU]

I'm just getting ready to book WBC through Vacation Strategy. I'm confused is the price they quoted me likely to change?!?!

Also I was debating on a 1 BDR or 2 BDR for my family of 4. I like the option of a separate bedroom so we can put the kids to bed and sit up for a glass a wine and/or get ready for the next day etc. I had hoped the 1 BDRM would have 2 queen beds (it's not a concern for us to share a room) but then I learned it's a king in room and queen sleeper sofa in living room. I don't wish to sleep on sleeper sofa so I'm wondering do I pay more for a two bedroom or do you think it would be feasible for kids to be on sleeper sofa and still be able to be in kitchen etc without disturbing them or possibly have room to put an air mattress in bedroom for them to sleep on.

Personally, I'd go for the 2 bedroom. We just really like having a separate sitting space that doesn't need to be made up. The kitchen is very open to the living room, so I think they'd need to be hard sleepers for you to be able to do do stuff in there without disturbing them. I also don't think there would be enough floor space in the bedroom to set up air mattresses without having to step on the air mattresses to get into and out of bed. And that second bathroom might come in really handy depending on the ages of your kids. Just my .02 since you asked

 

[Upatnoon]

What does that average for a week stay in a 3 bedroom look like based on point maintenance fees?

For renters, none of this matters. The only thing that matters is the price you negotiate for the room. The fees that Wyndham timeshare owners pay vary from resort to resort. It's not a simple system and nothing to be concerned about if you are a renter.

 

[Cdn Gal]

What does that average for a week stay in a 3 bedroom look like based on point maintenance fees?

It depends on the time of year that you want to go- do you want me to look it up for Jan? If so, which week?

 

[Cdn Gal]

His cost does not more than double. What he is stating is that he is currently doing a Book/Rebook inside 60-days. At the 60-day mark it cost him HALF his points and a free upgrade (even less points to book). What he is not telling his renters is that he is taking $7/1,000 points. Lets take Prime season as an example. A 2BR Dlx is 224,000 points. He charges them $1,568 (assumes $7/1,000). He books it for them, collects his money, and sits. At the 60-day mark, he searches inventory, verifies a 1BR Dlx is available at 166,000 points. He cancels the 2BR Dlx, books the 1BR Dlx at 50% of the points + free upgrade to the 2BR Dlx. Now, he gets the 2BR Dlx for 83,000 points. The original renter is still paying $1,568. I am 100% sure he is not passing that discount to the renters. The new price would be $581.

Before the Wyndham changes, PlatVIP owners had a tremendous benefit using this system. They will still be able to use it, but not as easily. Prime season will be the most difficult because of limited inventory.

What he is complaining about now, is that he is not going to be able to get max use of his points. He will have to leave the reservation at 224,000 for the $1,568 he collected. They will figure out how to manage it. There are enough megarenters that will cause so many issues for Wyndham. They can simply take inventory in the highest demand places, hold it until the 15-day window, then dump it all back to Wyndham. They will also figure out how to manage the Wait Lists also knowing people are going to dump inventory. At the end of the day, if you are flexible, you will still get insane deals at the 2-week mark.

Yes and no with respect to mega renters creating problems. Many of their contracts have been frozen since last September. Only recently have they been able to continue to make guest confirmations, and more and more continue to be frozen. Wyndham is going through many of the big contracts.

 

[Brian Noble]

They could not sell timeshares when people would go to the meetings and say why should I buy when I can rent cheaper?

Nonsense. Wyndham recently reported earnings for their first quarter (Jan-Mar '17). When it comes to timeshare sales:

Vacation Ownership
Revenues were $648 million in the first quarter of 2017, compared with $641 million in the first quarter of 2016.

Gross VOI sales increased 3% in the first quarter of 2017. Volume per guest (VPG) was up 4.9%, reflecting both a higher average close rate and transaction size. Tour flow declined 1.7% due to the closure of sales offices as part of a restructuring in the second half of last year.
​

 

[Cdn Gal]

You are signing a contract with a timeshare owner. There is always a risk, but it is less minor with the big companies. Everything people are talking about is the benefits the actual owner gets. They book you are room for XXX,000 points, you pay for it, all is good. What some owners don't say is that they then rebook it for less than 50% of the points and they make more money per point used. That means they can make ~3 reservations with the same number of points. In the example above, they would make $1,568 for each 83,000 point rental. That turns to ~$4,750 for 3 rentals totaling the same as just the initial rental. That alone almost covers the MFs of 1M+ points.

People need not worry about it. Let the timeshare owners get it all figured out. They were taking advantages of huge loopholes. They will still be able to book, but they will be limited to rebook inside 60-days. The waitlists will gobble up the rooms as they are freed up. That means someone else will be able to rent it.

Yes but, if you are travelling at peak times- Christmas, spring break etc, you will be paying premium because at the 60 day mark there won't be any inventory. You are not able to do the cancel/rebook thing anymore. You can use less points if there is availability, and you may get an upgrade, but I can tell you this that Christmas for next year is already all booked up. This is why we picked bonnet creek as our home resort. At the 13month mark we can call in and get our reservations and have no problem getting whatever size of unit that we want.

 

[Cdn Gal]

Nonsense. Wyndham recently reported earnings for their first quarter (Jan-Mar '17). When it comes to timeshare sales:

Vacation Ownership
Revenues were $648 million in the first quarter of 2017, compared with $641 million in the first quarter of 2016.

Gross VOI sales increased 3% in the first quarter of 2017. Volume per guest (VPG) was up 4.9%, reflecting both a higher average close rate and transaction size. Tour flow declined 1.7% due to the closure of sales offices as part of a restructuring in the second half of last year.
​

I Have met a number of people that we have met at bonnet creek that told us that's what they told the timeshare sellers when they went to the timeshare meetings.

 

[Cdn Gal]

Brian, I can't seem to login to our account tonight, are you able to get on?