The truth is coming out - Rumsfeld OK'd Abuses

[theSurlyMermaid]

Yes, you're absolutely right.

In fact, even if we cut off an arm or a leg, it wouldn't be as bad as beheading them. You know, I bet we could even get away with shooting them....quick, painless-like....because it STILL wouldn't be as bad as those beheadings were. In fact, if we could cut off their heads in a painless quick manner...you know, guillotine-like, it STILL wouldn't be as bad as beheading them...because, we wouldn't be, you know, making them beg for their lives.

We could do almost anything and STILL never be as bad as the bad guys!!!! Yay, us!

 

[AirForceRocks]

Originally posted by theSurlyMermaid
Yes, you're absolutely right.

In fact, even if we cut off an arm or a leg, it wouldn't be as bad as beheading them. You know, I bet we could even get away with shooting them....quick, painless-like....because it STILL wouldn't be as bad as those beheadings were. In fact, if we could cut off their heads in a painless quick manner...you know, guillotine-like, it STILL wouldn't be as bad as beheading them...because, we wouldn't be, you know, making them beg for their lives.

We could do almost anything and STILL never be as bad as the bad guys!!!! Yay, us!

Play Twister much? I'm sure that you know exactly what I'm saying, but if you want to play word games, that's cool with me.

When I see even half of the outrage over the beheadings that I've seen over the prisoner abuse, I'll start believing that people actually understand that the latter, while terrible, is not nearly as bad as the former.

 

[tiggersmom2]

Originally posted by theSurlyMermaid
Yes, you're absolutely right.

In fact, even if we cut off an arm or a leg, it wouldn't be as bad as beheading them. You know, I bet we could even get away with shooting them....quick, painless-like....because it STILL wouldn't be as bad as those beheadings were. In fact, if we could cut off their heads in a painless quick manner...you know, guillotine-like, it STILL wouldn't be as bad as beheading them...because, we wouldn't be, you know, making them beg for their lives.

We could do almost anything and STILL never be as bad as the bad guys!!!! Yay, us!

 

[theSurlyMermaid]

Originally posted by AirForceRocks
Play Twister much? I'm sure that you know exactly what I'm saying, but if you want to play word games, that's cool with me.

When I see even half of the outrage over the beheadings that I've seen over the prisoner abuse, I'll start believing that people actually understand that the latter, while terrible, is not nearly as bad as the former.

I'm flattered you believe I'm so flexible. Who have you been talking to?

I was taking your argument out for a spin and seeing where it would go. Skiing a slippery slope, if you will. It's quite liberating, actually. And I came to the same conclusion you have: America is never as bad as the next guy! Comparatively, we rock! And you're offended?

I've seen plenty of grief, sorrow and outrage over the beheadings (and rightfully so!) and I've also seen anger at the prisoner abuse, though certainly not lately. I'm not sure why you haven't, but rest assured, it is being well covered.


eta: Tiggersmom.....oh yeah?.... SO there!

 

[AirForceRocks]

I've seen plenty of grief, sorrow and outrage over the beheadings (and rightfully so!) and I've also seen anger at the prisoner abuse, though certainly not lately.

Let's see, the prisoner abuse was the lead story on every national newscast for 2 or 3 weeks, not to mention the two entire hours devoted to the story by "60 Minutes II"

The latest beheading happened yesterday, and it wasn't the lead news story on any of the broadcasts I saw tonight.

Yeah, they're devoting as much news time to one as the other...right...

 

[theSurlyMermaid]

Originally posted by AirForceRocks
Let's see, the prisoner abuse was the lead story on every national newscast for 2 or 3 weeks, not to mention the two entire hours devoted to the story by "60 Minutes II"

The latest beheading happened yesterday, and it wasn't the lead news story on any of the broadcasts I saw tonight.

Yeah, they're devoting as much news time to one as the other...right...

Out of curiousity what was the lead story on the broadcasts tonight? Prisoner abuse?

I tend to get my news in print is all....the latest beheading was on the front page of the Washington Post.

 

[AirForceRocks]

Originally posted by theSurlyMermaid
Out of curiousity what was the lead story on the broadcasts tonight? Prisoner abuse?

I tend to get my news in print is all....the latest beheading was on the front page of the Washington Post.

The lead story tonight that I saw was the Saudis offering amnesty to the terrorists that turn themselves in.

As for the Post, yeah I'm looking at it right now...picture of the S. Korean victim's parents, with a headline and caption. And what's on the column right next to it, also with a big headline?

"Memo on Interrogation Tactics Is Disavowed"

And this is what, a month or more into the prisoner abuse? I'm sure that the beheadings will still be front page news a month from now.

 

[tiggersmom2]

eta: Tiggersmom.....oh yeah?.... SO there! [/B]

Whatever, why don't you do something constructive and ride one of your rollercoasters

It really bothers me that American citizens cannot differentiate between the beheadings and mere humiliation in an Iraqi prison. Your sarcastic post proved to me that you just don't understand and it is sad that Americans are undermining the war effort. Why can't people understand we need to win at all cost! These people we are fighting are barbarians, they have no human compassion. When they beheaded Mr. Johnson they said "the infidel is DEAD". Hello, they play by different rules! I can only hope our military stands strong and does what needs to be done at whatever cost.

 

[theSurlyMermaid]

Okay, AFR, I can see your point of view on this one, I can.

However, the latest beheading, while certainly as horrible, disgusting and repehensible as all the others, did not occur to an American, so based on that alone I would expect it is not going to receive the same treatment.

Whether that is right or wrong is another question entirely. However, the rest of the world perceives we care only about ourselves for a reason.

As for the prisoner abuse still being news, well, my take on that (although I honestly haven't seen too much lately) is that it's an ongoing thing where more and more is being discovered as time goes on. Who did these horrible beheadings and why is not really the same kind of unfolding mystery. They are horrible events that happened, received alot of coverage and I know I haven't forgotten. The Paul Johnson beheading was absolutely given alot of coverage over last weekend (and I couldn't get it out of my head vacation or not).

But to constantly cover it....to what purpose? It happened, we know who did it and we surely know why. His family probably just wants to grieve in private.

I guess I'm curious as to what type of coverage you feel would be appropriate.

 

[theSurlyMermaid]

Originally posted by tiggersmom2
Whatever, why don't you do something constructive and ride one of your rollercoasters

It really bothers me that American citizens cannot differentiate between the beheadings and mere humiliation in an Iraqi prison. Your sarcastic post proved to me that you just don't understand and it is sad that Americans are undermining the war effort. Why can't people understand we need to win at all cost! These people we are fighting are barbarians, they have no human compassion. When they beheaded Mr. Johnson they said "the infidel is DEAD". Hello, they play by different rules! I can only hope our military stands strong and does what needs to be done at whatever cost.

Wow, you know what? I was responding to you EXACTLY how you responded to me. So before making your nasty little comments, General Win-At-All-Cost, look in a mirror.

 

[Douglas Dubh]

As for the prisoner abuse still being news, well, my take on that (although I honestly haven't seen too much lately) is that it's an ongoing thing where more and more is being discovered as time goes on.

I haven't noticed that at all. What I see is a lot of attempts to blame the President for them, and those attempts failing.

 

[theSurlyMermaid]

Well, that would have something to do with our viewpoints being somewhat different, wouldn't it?

 

[AirForceRocks]

However, the latest beheading, while certainly as horrible, digusting and repehensible as all the others, did not occur to an American, so based on taht alone I would expect it is not going to receive the same treatment.

The other two recent beheadings were Americans, and they didn't receive nearly the same amount of press as the prison abuses either, so I don't think we can attribute the most recent lack of interest in the media to "It wasn't an American"

But to constantly cover it....to what purpose?

So that people won't forget what kind of savage animals we're fighting against. I could ask you the same thing - what is the point of the neverending coverage of the prison abuses?

I guess I'm curious as to what type of coverage you feel would be appropriate.

At least as much, if not more, than the prison abuse is getting.

 

[theSurlyMermaid]

Sorry AFR, I think they did. And I'm basing that on the fact that I still think about the all the time and the prisoner abuse barely at all. I could sit here and say it all day long and you're not going to change your opinion. There obviously no way on earth to prove either one of us is right....we aren't going to unearth every article and newscast ever done on these things and it's highly doubtful either of us has even read or watched anywhere close to all the coverage either has received. And even if we had, I highly doubt either one of us would change our opinion.

So that's that.

 

[AirForceRocks]

Sorry AFR, I think they did.

Sorry, but they didn't. If they had, Paul Johnson's beheading would still be the lead story - it wasn't even a week ago that he was killed, and the only mention made on the news of him tonight was that they still hadn't found his body. And that was part of another story (the S. Korean beheading) that 10 minutes into the broadcast.

You may not watch the news, but I do, and I can assure you that the coverage of the beheadings was nowhere near as extensive and long running as the coverage of the prison abuse was (and still is).

 

[theSurlyMermaid]

Originally posted by AirForceRocks
Sorry, but they didn't. If they had, Paul Johnson's beheading would still be the lead story - it wasn't even a week ago that he was killed, and the only mention made on the news of him tonight was that they still hadn't found his body. And that was part of another story (the S. Korean beheading) that 10 minutes into the broadcast.

You may not watch the news, but I do, and I can assure you that the coverage of the beheadings was nowhere near as extensive and long running as the coverage of the prison abuse was (and still is).

Sorry, but I think they did.


We can go back and forth all night on this. Did you not read my last post? I said LET IT LIE. You aren't going to change my opinion and I'm not going to change yours.

What's your problem?

 

[palmtreegirl]

Originally posted by AirForceRocks
Who in the world is defending what the military guards did? What they did was wrong, and I hope they're punished. But please explain to me how the abuse that we've all seen is AS BAD AS CUTTING OFF SOMEONE'S HEAD????

To say that one is not as as bad as the other is not to defend the lesser crime. I don't understand why you can't see that.

I totally agree. The prisoners that were abused were not innocents, the people who are being kidnapped and killed are, big, big difference. There's no comparing the two and when someone does so it makes everything else in their arguement invalid as far as I'm concerned.

 

[AirForceRocks]

Originally posted by theSurlyMermaid
Sorry, but I think they did.

We can go back and forth all night on this. Did you not read my last post?

And you're dead wrong. How much time on newscasts has been devoted to the different issues isn't a matter of opinion, it's fact. You've said that you don't even watch the news, so how can you possibly even form an intelligent opinion about what is or isn't being shown?

I said LET IT LIE.

Oh my bad - I didn't realize that you had been made a moderator and put in charge of telling people when they can or can't post.

What's your problem?

I don't have a problem at all. I'm just wondering why someone that has admitted that they don't watch the news would then turn around and tell someone that watches multiple newscasts every night what was or wasn't on those newscasts. If you don't watch the news, then you are totally ignorant of what is being shown...how can you then presume to say what was or wasn't broadcast?

 

[theSurlyMermaid]

AFR, you are seriously the most self-righteous, hostile poster I've ever encountered.

And I'm not DEAD wrong. And if you're trying to suggest that you've seen, weighed and measured every single newstory in every single publication about these events that has been published, broadcast or televised across the nation, then you're even more deluded than you come across. You don't have all the facts either, much as you like to scream that you do.

 

[AirForceRocks]

AFR, you are seriously the most self-righteous, hostile poster I've ever encountered.

Oh, I see...you can dish it out but you can't take it? I'll try to keep that in mind in the future.

And I'm not DEAD wrong.

Yeah, you are. One doesn't have to watch every single news broadcast or read every single newspaper or periodical to know FOR A FACT that the beheadings haven't gotten nearly as much press coverage as the prison abuses. You claim to read the Washington Post, so let's peruse the headlines...

Saturday: Paul Johnson's beheading makes the front page after his execution of Friday.

Sunday: Paul Johnson is mentioned briefly in the context of a front page story about Saudi security forces killing 4 terrorists.

Monday: Two days after the beheading, Mr. Johnson is again mentioned briefly on page A16, in the context of the S. Korean man begging for his life on the video.

Tuesday: No mention of Mr. Johnson's death that I could find.

Wednesday: Another brief mention of Mr. Johnson in the context of the beheading of the S. Korean man.

So, 5 days after Mr. Johnson's beheading, he's pretty much forgotten by the Post...yet the prison abuse story, which broke over a month ago is STILL front page news.

And you can say with a straight face that the media coverage for the beheadings have been as extensive as the media coverage of the prison abuses?