The tipping point

[TW1]

Just returned from another great week and continue to feel our DVC purchase was the right thing.

However, this was the first trip that the talk around the hot tub (sort of the office water cooler) was about selling memberships ‘cause it just wasn’t worth it. We sat and listened to several members say they were in the process of, or just sold, their memberships.

Each of these members felt they are not getting their money’s worth. In their opinion they feel they do not get the services worthy of the price. One member said they used to get trash & towel service more than once every three days and it was more than trash & towels. Another said it was actually cheaper to just pay for the rooms they needed when they needed them buy pointing points from members, rather than pay the dues every year. Another claimed they used to receive more discounts that made their membership more valuable to them than it is today. Finally, one said the parks had become too expensive and they just don’t go as often as they used too. All of these members seemed to be owners for six or more years.

Anyway, it made we wonder how other long-term members felt. Basically, it works for me and that’s what counts. But it made us talk about what the tipping point may be for us.

So my question is...is there something that would push you over the edge to make you sell? I think of this with the view that, if that tipping point comes for too many, will it de-value our ownership to the point that we would be selling at a loss. And would Disney care?

 

[CarolMN]

I plan to sell when I no longer enjoy our annual trips. I see that happening, but not for quite a while yet.

Since DVC was not providing the "free park passes" when we bought, perhaps my expectations are less than those who bought OKW early on. I think the AP discount as well as the other perks are fine - really love the AP discount (and the DDE discount that comes with it). I have no problems with the level of service - I kind of think complaining about lack of towels is petty, myself.

FWIW, I don't think it is reasonable to expect to sell a timeshare (especially one with a RTU arrangement)and get your original investment back. Yes, those who bought early on have been able to sell and some have even realized a gain. I hope to get something back when we sell, but we bought to get better accomodations for less than we were already paying. Once we break even (should be soon, now), I know we will have been better off with DVC than we would have been without it. (We do not go more often than we used to before DVC). So I won't be stessing about "selling at a loss".

IMHO, those who are unhappy with DVC probably should sell. I dont' agree that they will always be able to rent for a reasonable price, though. They might miss the "control" factor, too.

Best wishes -

 

[Lynn-Marie]

We are *thinking* about selling our OKW DVC. We live in California, so being able to use our points at DLR hotels was a big selling point because we knew we could always use the points in CA if not in FL. However, they have steadily increased the amount of points needed to secure DLR rooms -- to the point where we feel we are paying more than we would if we paid cash. For that reason, we are really looking closely at selling.

Having said that, we are leaving for OKW next Sunday -- our first trip to FL in 5 years. We may be thinking differently after this trip.

 

[Beca]

I honestly think that owning DVC may not be for the "masses", but rather for the few Disney freaks. I have to admit that I am amazed at how big DVC is growing!!!

It IS very expensive, and that is why I am not sure that offsite properties would work as well (although, it would give current members more variety).

We look at our DVC membership as providing the "traditional summer getaway" that so many families enjoy. I have friends that own a cabin in the mountains. They go there a few times a year, and consider it their "second home". That is how I see BCV...my family's second home. I HOPE that my dd does not become "jaded" by having WDW too accessible, but I hope that she thinks of it as "the vacation tradition" that we take every year.

This is yet another reason that I think people should "buy where they love". I consider BCV a "destination" unto itself. I know many SSR owners see SSR in much the same way, with the spa and DTD. I often read trip reports where people do not even go into the parks, but just enjoy their resort and the "freebies" that WDW can offer. I can see a time where the parks are "less important" to us...but, for sentimental reasons...I think I will always like to "drop in" on them at least for a couple of hours per day. But, if I took a vacation where I just "hung around" BCV and SAB for a week....what a great vacation!!!!

However, I certainly think WDW has at LEAST as much to offer as my friends' cabin in the woods...actually, I think it has a LOT more to offer!! And, although they own their cabin "free and clear", they paid a lot more for it, and have to "maintain" it themselves. Of course, they can use it anytime and don't have to worry about "availability". But, I really like leaving all that to someone else....it is a tradeoff, but I find that WDW has spoiled me for other vacations. We may not take advantage of all that WDW has to offer every trip, but it is wonderful to know that we can...the "freedom" of your vacations is awesome!!!

So...to answer your question...it would take a LOT to make me sell. Granted, I am a new member (1 year), but I am thrilled with my purchase!!!

 

[Maistre Gracey]

In my opinion, if you visit WDW often and enjoy deluxe accommodations, there is no better value than DVC.

Personally I don't give a rats behind if T&T is twice a week, or three times a week. I also didn't factor in any of the "temporary perks" that were in place when we purchased, so that doesn't hold water with me.
To me, that's a very weak argument to sell.

Now, that being said, if a Member is tired of their annual pilgrimage to WDW, or thinks the parks are too expensive, that's a different story.
That would be a reflection of personal taste, or personal budget, rather than a reflection of DVC.

The above is just my opinion...

MG

 

[Laurabearz]

We bought DVC for the villas.... not the parks... Right now, we enjoy our 2 times a year at WDW and our stays at HHI.

If anything, we would extend our HHI stay to two weeks and visit the world once...

When the kids are gone... then we will talk... but I forsee my husband and I heading down to WDW long after the kids are done with it.....

 

[SleepyatDVC]

All of these members seemed to be owners for six or more years.

Anyway, it made we wonder how other long-term members felt. Basically, it works for me and that’s what counts. But it made us talk about what the tipping point may be for us.

So my question is...is there something that would push you over the edge to make you sell? I think of this with the view that, if that tipping point comes for too many, will it de-value our ownership to the point that we would be selling at a loss. And would Disney care?

I suspect that some of them want to get out and sell while they feel the market is hot - meaning that they could either get their original investment back or even make a profit. If they still want a DVC fix they feel that they can always rent points.

Remember all the hoops we went through to "justify" our DVC purchase? How it devalues less than other timeshares (although we all know that timeshares are not investments but pre-paid vacations) and how if times get tough we could always rent out the points to cover the maintenance (although I would never actually give up any of those points )?

I guess if one has gotten lots of use out of their DVC purchase and it looks like a good time to sell and one has the reassurance that they can always get a DVC fix through the rental boards, then one can certainly "justify" a sell too! Lol!

 

[Deemarch]

I guess we must be in the same place in life. I have plans for May and November of 2006. I guess if we get sick of it, we'll always have the option to sell. But our yearly dues wouldn't even pay for a week at a moderate resort (DH doesn't like them, anyway) and we have been taking 2 - 1 week vacations with DVC.

We are also Disney Maniacs and proud of it!! So I guess we get less tired of the place than others.

 

[DrTomorrow]

I guess that I'm not surprised; no one can really predict travel likes/dislikes (or anything) years into the future. I'd also bet that enough people have life changes (children get older, job (vacation) changes, financial setbacks, etc.) that make DVC less attractive. Of course, this is all anecdotal - I'd love to see some official turnover rates from Disney....

As for all the "things ain't as good as they used to be" talk; well, most people seem to have a need to justify to others why they are doing something. In this case, they're putting down DVC to explain why they're selling it - not many folks are honest enough to admit (to strangers in a hot tub, particularly) that they either are getting "sick of DVC" or that they made a mistake in the first place.

ETA: Oops, OP asked a question. Well, we're getting pretty excited here at Dream Manor (the ancestral home of Dr. & Mrs. Tomorrow) about going to WDW in a few weeks, so no talk of selling yet. While I can see the "possibility" of getting sick of DVC vacations, I think there are many less drastic things to do (non.Disney.park vacations, skipping a year or so and renting out the points) before I'd sell.

 

[DVCLiz]

It's possible I might sell my DVC if it no longer suited my family's needs, but I don't think any of the OP's tipping points would be a valid reason for me.

1. I wouldn't receive daily housekeeping under any circumstances, so the frequency of T & T wouldn't really be a tipping point with me. I tidy after myself as I see fit, and if I needed more towels I'd either buy a new pack or wash them myself. Anyone staying at any DVC resort on points makes this decision during their vacation, and it's a matter of personal preference, but I can't see deciding to sell because I had to wash towels four times a week instead of two. Just not a big deal to me...

2. It will probably always be cheaper to rent points from owners, but this is true of many things. I could save a lot of money renting an apartment instead of paying my mortgage every month, too. But I don't want to live in an apartment, and I don't want to rent points. This wouldn't inspire me to sell either. And, there's no guarantee that this policy will continue to be in effect for the next 38 years, is there? (Or is there something to that effect in the fine print somewhere?) Or that the price point will stay so reasonable?

3. Again, any discounts offered or withdrawn didn't factor into my decision to become a DVC owner, and the lack of them wouldn't make me sell. It's nice to have a perk, but it doesn't take away from the DVC experience for me if it's not there.

4. Everything is getting more expensive, not just vacations in Florida. If I couldn't afford to vacation and use DVC effectively, I'd sell, but that wouldn't be the fault of DVC - it would be that my leisure income had not kept up wiyh some of my leisure choices and I'd have to cut back. Not the fault of DVC, either.

No whining allowed...

 

[crisi]

Depends,

We may sell when the kids get old enough to tire of WDW, if they do - that's probably the biggest reason we've been able to resist the add on bug. Or we may hold on and golf away our early retirement. I really can't see us owning and using the contract until the end of its life though.

If the parks no longer hold their charm, we will probably sell. Or if maintenance fees get too high or maintenance issues impact the quality of the vacation.

 

[Greysword]

I think Disney is trying hard to make the resorts a destination by themselves, and make it so people who are burnt out on the parks still visit the WDW Resort. Of course, the other collections allow us to use our points elsewheer instead of WDW.

As for selling, we are new members who plan to start a family, so we won't be selling for quite a while. My parents live in the Tampa area, so it is another reason to visit both them and the mouse.

As for those who plan to sell, I support you 100%. If you do not feel you are getting any value from this product, then by all means stop using it. This is the beauty of our freedoms, and I am sure someone else would just love to have your BCV, BWV, VWL, and OKW properties. All I ask is that if someone sells their share in the club, then they do not complain that the wait to rebuy into it is long, the prices are high, or the maintenance is shotty. You can't win if you don't play, and that goes for electing goverment officials or having a say in how things are done at DVC.

 

[bcvillastwo]

No one can predict the future, some try, some even guess correctly from time to time. So with that said, we have no intention of selling at this time, and no plans for renting points so that we can use the money elsewhere. We still love WDW, prefer to stay onsite, and DVC still fits our vacation desires.

However, it is nice to know that DVC continues to hold its value in a world where almost every other timeshare loses value and does so rapidly. If anything, sellers who've been DVC members for more than three years should thank their lucky stars they bought into DVC because it's likely they will recoup almost as much and probably more than they initially invested (particularly if it's an on site property). How many timeshare owners can make that claim?

 

[colleen costello]

I live in the Midwest and Orlando offers me spring break in a beautiful community. Dreaming of the flowers and sunshine literally keeps me going in January and February. I used to struggle with seasonal depression after Christmas was over. Now I spend those 8 weeks planning our spring break and it has been the best medicine...

I know quite a few people from school who have Florida timeshares. One friend just bought a "floating week" from Ron Jon in Cocoa Beach (who are these two guys anyhow?) As I look at it, my timeshare is not just "Disney" but Florida. As my family gets older, maybe we won't go to the parks all the time... But we still have access to the beautiful weather, the ocean, even Universal. Heck, we can go to Gatorland... I can't see us EVER getting sick of Florida, even if we did tire of Disney! The DVC resorts offer at least as much to do as upscale resorts across the country.

 

[LIFERBABE]

I can't see us EVER getting sick of Florida, even if we did tire of Disney! The DVC resorts offer at least as much to do as upscale resorts across the country.

I agree!

Going to Dallas and staying at a fancy Hotel for the weekend just isnt the same.
We purchased DVC instead of a Vacation Home or RV for many of the reasons Beca stated. No maintenance work, the resorts are Destinations, etc. If we grow tired of the parks, we will still have top notch accomodations.

What would prompt me to sell is if the resorts are not maintained properly, not the parks. I would just stop spending money on the parks if they decline, but I could still see us visiting BCV and SSR as destinations.

 

[Pumbaa_]

We are seriously considering selling 1 or 2 of our contracts. In the next 3 years or so we are planning on moving to Florida and will travel differently, mostly weekends.

For us, if we were to sell now it would be to take advantage of the great resale rate going on with BCV. Since I have 3 contracts, we could easily sell the BCV contrats and still be able to have a week a year there. Plus get the AP discount and the DDE card. We haven't lost our love of Disney, only planning long term.

 

[CGregoryJr]

One of the biggest financial risks of DVC ownership is the increasing disparity between the purchase price (whether through DVC or resale) and the underlying rental rate. Since I began evaluating DVC many years ago, the rental rates have remained relatively flat while the purchase price has consistently climbed. In the end analysis, since this program is essentially a right to use DVC properties, eventually, the rental rate becomes the most significant element of each potential purchaser's consideration (at least an informed purchaser). It is my contention that even Disney's ROFR, which effectively mitigates the impact of free market pricing, will eventually be insufficient to support the elevated pricing without a related increase in rental rates. With all due respect to those who fundamentally object to the rental alternative, this is a pretty nonsensical approach. After all, comparing home ownership versus renting an apartment is not the question here--in the world of DVC, the apartment “tenant” gets identical accommodations as the DVC "owner".

We remain generally positive about our purchase made 2 years ago. That said, our concern about relative value continues to grow, due in large part, to the "rent versus buy" equation.

 

[Cyndy]

I also agree with many points made, especially the DVC as a destination resort. We're empty nesters who have used DVC both for the parks and simply to vacation without doing parks. What a fantastic option. I recall a few years ago Vegas did that "family" destination campaign, now really!! Maybe we can't gamble at WDW (fine with me) we can take our GK and be sure that they will be delighted. We can also book HHI and Vero for a beach fix, so when we were comparing DVC to other resorts, none could offer the inside WDW which is what tipped the scale for our buying. So far I have yet to see any TS that can guarantee WDW reservations for any time I choose.

We have 2 of the 4 contracts we are purchasing as part of our retirement plan which will then be deeded one to each of our 4 kids....they can decide if they want to sell or not. It's a decision I could never make without a drastic circumstances forcing my sale.

 

[Dean]

We've sold two of our four contract getting down from a high of 885 to 565. We are planning a group trip for Xmas 2006 and once that is set and completed, we'll likely sell one of the remaining two. It's even possible we'll do a small add on then sell everything else. DVC is only a good value for those to use exclusively at DVC and mostly avoiding weekends. We plan to do more weekends and we're FL residents. We also own other timeshare and can trade in for much of the year far cheaper than owning. Plus we are planning other things for our full week trips over the next few years.

 

[drakethib]

But our yearly dues wouldn't even pay for a week at a moderate resort


Never thought of it like that.

Your right, our yearly dues would not pay for a moderate resort. If they would it would be due to a big "sale" or discount.

Plus the money saving if you have a meal or two pretty well seals the deal IMHO.