The Running Thread--2024

[Bree]

APRIL:
Running: 60.1 miles for a total 15 hours and 55 mins
Walking:11.6 miles (focused on hills on treadmill)
Strength and Yoga: 6 hours and 19 mins

I have been trying to add in more cross training with focus on hills while walking on treadmill. Then Yoga and strength training. I want to get faster to get a POT for Dopey. But I am not improving fast enough. I knew it was always a stretch but in May my 10 miler Colfax run will be happening and I just cannot sustain 11 min miles. I can do it for a mile or two... so if I am pushing it I bet I could do it for a 5k but not for 10 miles... it just sucks. Cause I see on the internet all these people who just started training and throw down 10 to 11 min miles no problem... while I still struggle. I know I have improved since I started 3 years ago... but it is just soo slow compared to the leaps and gains I see others do. And I know I should not compare... but it happens... even in so called safe groups like slow as f facebook group, I see people say they run slow with 10 min miles and it just hurts that I cannot even run their slow speed.
Sorry for the whine... I just need to vent.
I guess I just need to accept I will be in the back of the corrals and I will never be in faster corrals in Disney.

It took me years to get to where I am. My easy pace now used to be my race pace. And when I say years I’m talking 10 years. I am 47yo so I’m not likely to see much more progress. I’m just trying not to keep injuring myself (none of it running related). Some people are just naturally gifted when it comes to running, singing, painting, math…..

It’s hard not to get caught up in what I call pace envy. When that happens I take a step back from social media and just concentrate on me and my accomplishments.

@DopeyBadger When you used the Jack Daniels' plan for 5K training, did you run five times or six times per week? I'm trying to decide which would be best for me. I honestly don't know if my body needs only one day of recovery or two. I ran six days a week using the Hanson's HM plan and I obviously survived without any major setbacks, but I did strain my hamstring towards the end of the training plan. I don't know if that was too much for my 50 year old body or if it was just one of those things that happen when you train hard.

How often does the rest of the gang run per week? This is always an interesting topic with various perspectives.

I run 5 days, but during marathon training I have found I like to add in that 6th day with another easy run.

APRIL 2024
Running 22.1 miles

Doctor cleared me on 4/26 to ease into normal activities. I just didn’t mention the magical 19.3 miles before that appt

 

[SheHulk]

Good luck to everyone running Broad Street today! Rain just started so it should be a cold one!

If anyone wants to say hi, look for the weirdo in the pink poncho and trash bags covering her shoes sitting on the bleachers.

I was actually in the track area, but didn't see this before the race (or you). Hope you had a great race!

I was seriously considering staying in bed, because I wasn't trained to PR and I didn't want a repeat of being soaked like last year. The sky really pretty much held up, aside from some sprinkles at the start. I was cold waiting in the corral but once I got started I felt great! Crowds came out despite the rain threatening too. I was glad I didn't stay in bed!

I was in the green corral, the one that is shunted off on Somerville Ave instead of Broad Street, waiting to start. We couldn't hear the PA system at all so it was a kind of strange experience. I think some folks had something similar at the DL Half? Anyway for a few minutes there I was wondering if they were going to forget about us!

I ran a 1:32:02, which would just miss an A corral placement for a future Disney half. But I do have a PoT for now, just looking to when my most recent one expires in a year or two, so not a tragedy at all. It was still my 2nd fastest time ever for a 10 miler, so I'm pretty psyched about that, given that I had recently dropped from 5 days a week to 4 days of running, and had to skip most speedwork with illness and injury.

It was a fine day, but it's always more fun when the weather is nice. I'll sign up again, I'm sure. Hope springs eternal that the next year, we won't have a rainy, cloudy, cold race and it will feel like spring. When that nice weather hits as it should the first weekend in May, Broad Street is the best!

 

[Guidman]

Bookended races in PA today, it was marathon weekend here in Pittsburgh. Similar weather to Philly, 60 degrees and rained right before the start and first two miles. Not ideal but could have been worse. The rain didn't last too long and it was cloudy the whole time so that kept temperatures at bay.

I ran the half, goal was to hopefully get under 1:30. I knew it'd be pretty close. There's no half pacers for that time so I went out with the 3:00 group. There was a record number of participants across all the races this year, so the first mile was packed. We were alittle slow on the pace. Found our groove after that and ticked away the miles. I fell off pace in mile 12 which is all uphill over the Birmingham Bridge and another hill right after (7:17). Finished in 1:30:18.

In all the years I've been doing this event, this was easily the most spectators on the course. The city showed up today, it was great. A few aid stations seemed a bit short staffed but that was the only minor quibble I had. Fun morning, it's one of my favorite weekends here.

Hope the race was good for you too @gosalyn_mallard.

 

[gosalyn_mallard]

Bookended races in PA today, it was marathon weekend here in Pittsburgh. Similar weather to Philly, 60 degrees and rained right before the start and first two miles. Not ideal but could have been worse. The rain didn't last too long and it was cloudy the whole time so that kept temperatures at bay.

I ran the half, goal was to hopefully get under 1:30. I knew it'd be pretty close. There's no half pacers for that time so I went out with the 3:00 group. There was a record number of participants across all the races this year, so the first mile was packed. We were alittle slow on the pace. Found our groove after that and ticked away the miles. I fell off pace in mile 12 which is all uphill over the Birmingham Bridge and another hill right after (7:17). Finished in 1:30:18.

In all the years I've been doing this event, this was easily the most spectators on the course. The city showed up today, it was great. A few aid stations seemed a bit short staffed but that was the only minor quibble I had. Fun morning, it's one of my favorite weekends here.

Hope the race was good for you too @gosalyn_mallard.

Glad you had a good race!

I loved this race. Running over 3 bridges, past the stadiums, and past the incline was so fun. The course was amazing. I was blown away by the crowd support! So many entertaining signs - especially "Yinz got this". Finish line with Panera bagels and Eat'n Park smiley cookies was great. We stayed in a hotel downtown so logistics were a breeze. Plus, the guy running in the Jedi costume wearing a sombrero for a May the 4th/Cinco de Mayo mash-up made my day. Totally worth the long drive for us. Definitely recommend this race!

 

[Naomeri]

My 5K this morning was absolutely beautiful, but slightly disappointing for me. Despite the fact that in 2022, it was cold, raining, I was sick, and my headphones died halfway through, I did better than I did this year (only by 9 seconds, but still)

 

[michigandergirl]

I see that I'm not alone with trying to make strength training a priority. For those that do have a consistent strength training routine, could you help me figure out what days I should be doing my strength training??

My summer maintenance plan will have me running 4 days a week. The strength program I'll be following is 3 days a week and consists of an upper body, a lower body, & a full body workout. Ideally I would like one total rest day (or yoga day). Where should I fit these 3 strength workouts in?

M - ?
T - easy run
W - ?
Th - workout run (hills, tempo, speed)
F - ?
S - easy run
S - long run

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[prncssjas]

For those that do have a consistent strength training routine, could you help me figure out what days I should be doing my strength training??

My running coach usually never places my strength training, which can be weight sets/core work/mobility routines (which lasts 45 mins to 50 mins) near a speed workout or long run. I usually do speedwork on a Thursday and my long run on Saturday. So strength training can be done Monday or Tuesday to avoid those days. I hope you find a schedule that works well for you.

 

[prncssjas]

Because I know some may understand, my saga with the quest for a better PoT continues.

DH and I lined up on Saturday for our 10k at a very small local race. This race was so small that DH and I ended up near the front of the start (like seriously, no one wanted to get up there....). I'm in the black and white singlet and DH is next to me in the hot pink arm and calf sleeves. The woman in orange won the women's race (in an amazing 38 minutes or so ).

The medals and shirts were really nice and I love the subtle (or not so subtle?) Star Wars theme.

It was a solid effort, DH paced me to a 59 second PR for my 10k distance (whoooo!) but I struggled at miles 3 and 4. So I shall continue to chip away, minute by minute. Thinking a lot about what you said regarding endurance in your last long post @DopeyBadger and will see if that helps. Based on my most recent race effort 5k, I should be able to do this.

Congrats to everyone who raced this weekend--looks like a lot of good running took place.

 

[Mr_Incr3dible]

Glad you had a good race!

I loved this race. Running over 3 bridges, past the stadiums, and past the incline was so fun. The course was amazing. I was blown away by the crowd support! So many entertaining signs - especially "Yinz got this". Finish line with Panera bagels and Eat'n Park smiley cookies was great. We stayed in a hotel downtown so logistics were a breeze. Plus, the guy running in the Jedi costume wearing a sombrero for a May the 4th/Cinco de Mayo mash-up made my day. Totally worth the long drive for us. Definitely recommend this race!

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Great photos. Interesting story (I hope).
I used to regularly fly into Pittsburgh and drive across and along the river on the way to Johnstown. There is a bridge that is no longer there, but its foundations are, and I drove by them dozens of times.
Fast forward a few years and I'm at the High Museum in Atlanta with family and there is a photography exhibit. One of the photos was of the now demolished bridge, but I instantly recognized it due to knowing the foundations. So my fam is looking at me oddly as I get all excited about a bridge photo and knowing what I was looking at.
Other fun fact: one of the other still-active funiculars is in Johnstown, and there is one in Altoona at the horseshoe bend.
Plus I grew up in Chattanooga, which has the Inclined Railway, which is still operational.
So without meaning to, I've seen or ridden many of the still operational funiculars.
More useless trivia, as the DW would say....

 

[DopeyBadger]

I see that I'm not alone with trying to make strength training a priority. For those that do have a consistent strength training routine, could you help me figure out what days I should be doing my strength training??

My summer maintenance plan will have me running 4 days a week. The strength program I'll be following is 3 days a week and consists of an upper body, a lower body, & a full body workout. Ideally I would like one total rest day (or yoga day). Where should I fit these 3 strength workouts in?

M - ?
T - easy run
W - ?
Th - workout run (hills, tempo, speed)
F - ?
S - easy run
S - long run

Thanks in advance for your help.

M - upper body strength
T - easy run + lower body strength
W - OFF
Th - workout run (hills, tempo, speed)
F - total body strength (going easy on the legs)
S - easy run
S - long run

OR

M - upper body strength
T - easy run + lower body strength
W - OFF
Th - workout run (hills, tempo, speed) + total body strength (going easy on the legs)
F - OFF
S - easy run
S - long run

Depends on whether you can get a good quality strength workout in after the Thursday run. I always suggest morning run and afternoon strength if you're doubling up and the priority is running.

OR

M - upper body strength
T - easy run + lower body strength
W - OFF
Th - workout run (hills, tempo, speed) + total body strength (going easy on the legs)
F - OFF
S - easy run + total body strength (depends on how hard it is on the legs and if recovered within 24hrs)
S - long run

Depends on whether the total body workout leg soreness lasts >24hrs and influences your long run capabilities.

 

[DisneyParrothead]

I see that I'm not alone with trying to make strength training a priority. For those that do have a consistent strength training routine, could you help me figure out what days I should be doing my strength training??

My summer maintenance plan will have me running 4 days a week. The strength program I'll be following is 3 days a week and consists of an upper body, a lower body, & a full body workout. Ideally I would like one total rest day (or yoga day). Where should I fit these 3 strength workouts in?

M - ?
T - easy run
W - ?
Th - workout run (hills, tempo, speed)
F - ?
S - easy run
S - long run

Thanks in advance for your help.

Your schedule is similar to mine. Here's what I'm doing in my maintenance phase:

M - total body strength
T - easy run of 40-45 minutes
W - lower body and core
Th - speed/hill work at lunch. Total body barre after work
Friday - rest
S - Cycle and core work
S - long run

I hit the weights hard on Monday since it's total body and balances out the work between my upper and lower body. Wednesday is a little bit lighter weights but still challenging. Barre is body weight work and a way I can challenge the small muscles that I need to work on.

I'm also doing 10-20 minutes of yoga each day to keep things loose. I have found by addressing yoga for small periods of time each day, it's actually better for me and my muscles. I consider it a little bit like stretching, and I am feeling a difference in how my back isn't as tight and I can address my hips before things get bad.

 

[DopeyBadger]

Thinking a lot about what you said regarding endurance in your last long post @DopeyBadger and will see if that helps. Based on my most recent race effort 5k, I should be able to do this.

Congrats on the PR!

I can see if there's anything that sticks out in the data to me.

What was the recent 5k? What were the conditions of the race (course elevation and T+D at time of race (weather underground has historical hour by hour)?

What was the 10k goal? What were the conditions of the race (course elevation and T+D at time of race (weather underground has historical hour by hour)?

Describe your training in the last eight weeks. Paces, volume, etc.

 

[Mr_Incr3dible]

Some people are just naturally gifted when it comes to running, singing, painting, math…..

It’s hard not to get caught up in what I call pace envy. When that happens I take a step back from social media and just concentrate on me and my accomplishments.

1. What gets really annoying is those who are talented in so many categories. An unfair distribution of talent, I say!
2. Pace envy. Yeah, this one is tough, especially when I'm around co-workers, friends, or family with paces that leave me in the dust.

Then I point out to myself that they are:
1. Younger
2. Thinner
3. Don't have athsma
4. All of the above

And that while I would love to be faster, my pace is my pace, won't get too much (if any) faster, but will get me to the finish line and that there are people behind me who likely would be happy to have my pace. And that I'm doing something that a lot of people can't or don't do.
It's all about perspective.

 

[prncssjas]

Congrats on the PR!

I can see if there's anything that sticks out in the data to me.

What was the recent 5k? What were the conditions of the race (course elevation and T+D at time of race (weather underground has historical hour by hour)?

What was the 10k goal? What were the conditions of the race (course elevation and T+D at time of race (weather underground has historical hour by hour)?

Describe your training in the last eight weeks. Paces, volume, etc.

Thanks so much @DopeyBadger, you are so kind to weigh in and help!

My recent 5k PR was a 26:13:33, 7:45am start, 51ft of elevation, 66 degrees, cloudy, 87% humidity.

My 10k goal was 54:45 (LOL, yes, that's the corral A PoT for the half only). The weather for the 10k this past Saturday was 60 degrees, 57% humidity, 8:40am start time. 62 ft of elevation. I ran a 57:02.

If it helps, I ran a half marathon exactly one month ago in 2:02:03 (6am start, 35 degrees at start, sunny, 17% humidity, 33 ft of elevation).

I generally run 20-25 miles per week, some weeks up to 30 miles. 80% of my runs are EZ pace (around 11 min per mile). I do speedwork once a week (8:30 to 9:30 min per mile for varied intervals). I also train heavily on hills during my long runs on Saturdays (keeping the pace/effort easy on the hills).

Any thoughts?

 

[Professor_Cookie]

Great photos. Interesting story (I hope).
I used to regularly fly into Pittsburgh and drive across and along the river on the way to Johnstown. There is a bridge that is no longer there, but its foundations are, and I drove by them dozens of times.
Fast forward a few years and I'm at the High Museum in Atlanta with family and there is a photography exhibit. One of the photos was of the now demolished bridge, but I instantly recognized it due to knowing the foundations. So my fam is looking at me oddly as I get all excited about a bridge photo and knowing what I was looking at.
Other fun fact: one of the other still-active funiculars is in Johnstown, and there is one in Altoona at the horseshoe bend.
Plus I grew up in Chattanooga, which has the Inclined Railway, which is still operational.
So without meaning to, I've seen or ridden many of the still operational funiculars.
More useless trivia, as the DW would say....

There’s a funicular at deer valley to get to the St Regis if you’re ever out this way

 

[michigandergirl]

M - upper body strength
T - easy run + lower body strength
W - OFF
Th - workout run (hills, tempo, speed)
F - total body strength (going easy on the legs)
S - easy run
S - long run

OR

M - upper body strength
T - easy run + lower body strength
W - OFF
Th - workout run (hills, tempo, speed) + total body strength (going easy on the legs)
F - OFF
S - easy run
S - long run

Depends on whether you can get a good quality strength workout in after the Thursday run. I always suggest morning run and afternoon strength if you're doubling up and the priority is running.

OR

M - upper body strength
T - easy run + lower body strength
W - OFF
Th - workout run (hills, tempo, speed) + total body strength (going easy on the legs)
F - OFF
S - easy run + total body strength (depends on how hard it is on the legs and if recovered within 24hrs)
S - long run

Depends on whether the total body workout leg soreness lasts >24hrs and influences your long run capabilities.

Thank you! As always, you are so helpful!!

 

[DopeyBadger]

My recent 5k PR was a 26:13:33, 7:45am start, 51ft of elevation, 66 degrees, cloudy, 87% humidity.

My 10k goal was 54:45 (LOL, yes, that's the corral A PoT for the half only). The weather for the 10k this past Saturday was 60 degrees, 57% humidity, 8:40am start time. 62 ft of elevation.

If it helps, I ran a half marathon exactly one month ago in 2:02:03 (6am start, 35 degrees at start, sunny, 17% humidity, 33 ft of elevation).

Weather seems comparable. The T+D was near 105 for the 10k, and near 128 for the 5k. For most, but not all, optimal performance is going to happen when the T+D is 80-100. So the 10k actually had good weather.

The 5k of 26:13 has a 10k equivalent of 54:29 and HM equivalent of 2:00:44. So it's the best performance of the three. You have the pre-requisite speed for the 10k performance desired.

What was the 10k time you ran? What were the splits of each mile (and I think we can ignore the grade adjusted pace since the race average was 10 ft/mile, unless it was completely flat for five miles and then 61 ft in a single mile)?

I generally run 20-25 miles per week, some weeks up to 30 miles. 80% of my runs are EZ pace (around 11 min per mile). I do speedwork once a week (8:30 to 9:30 min per mile for varied intervals). I also train heavily on hills during my long runs on Saturdays (keeping the pace/effort easy on the hills).

So averaging 25 ish miles per week. About 20 miles per week around 11 min/mile, and then five miles of ~9 min/mile pace. That would be about 220 min + 45 min = 265 min (4.4 hrs) per week? How long was the training plan with volume averaging around 4.5 hrs per week?

What's the top 3 volume weeks you've run in the last year in terms of time? What's the top 3 volume weeks you've run in the last five years?



Training paces seem to be in a good place based on the 26:13 5k fitness level. ~80% of volume at 10:27 min/mile or slower. The other 20% volume from 10:27 or faster. Worked around the desired 10k pace of 8:48.

What kind of speed workouts did you do?

 

[steph0808]

April Totals

Running:
Runs: 18
Miles: 87.8
Time: 14:54:53
Avg HR: 145
Avg Pace: 10:16

Walking:
Walks: 17
Miles: 15.65
Time: 5:08:20

Strength Training:
Sessions: 8
Time: 3:21:24

Running was down a bit due to tapering for a 10k and then resting a bit after. Strength was also down due to life (AKA softball games/tournaments for my kids). We will see what May brings!

 

[prncssjas]

What was the 10k time you ran? What were the splits of each mile (and I think we can ignore the grade adjusted pace since the race average was 10 ft/mile, unless it was completely flat for five miles and then 61 ft in a single mile)?

I ran a 57:02 at the 10k on Saturday and the weather was quite good, I agree.

My splits were: 8:48, 8:59, 9:28, 9:47, 9:29, 9:33 (then .20 at 8:01).

So averaging 25 ish miles per week. About 20 miles per week around 11 min/mile, and then five miles of ~9 min/mile pace. That would be about 220 min + 45 min = 265 min (4.4 hrs) per week? How long was the training plan with volume averaging around 4.5 hrs per week?

So I technically didn't even have a specific training block for this race. I just started a new training block in base building phase right now. I ran this 10k race using fitness from my last half marathon training block (the HM I raced on April 6th). That was a 16 week block that started in December 2023 and technically ended on April 6, 2024.

What's the top 3 volume weeks you've run in the last year in terms of time? What's the top 3 volume weeks you've run in the last five years?

Feb 2024, 38.04 miles in 9:36:43
December 2023, 39.36 miles in 9:31:32
September 2023, 37.37 miles in 7:55:28

(Last week, I ran 31.11 miles in 7:46).

If I dig way back into garmin, my top 3 volume weeks were back during my last training block for a full marathon.

October 2022, 35.31 miles in 6:30:40
October 2022, 36.55 miles in 6:32:28
November 2022, 38.12 miles in 7:04:12

I only started to train more consistently and seriously staring in January 2022 (even though I have been running since 2005).

I do a variety of speed workouts (Example 1: 4 x 1000m repeats at 10k effort, building to 5k effort with 2 min recovery job between, faster at the end. Example 2: Track workout 5 x 800m at 5k pace, rest two minutes, 2 x 200m at mile pace, rest. Example 3: 3 x Mile repeats at 10k effort, build intensity with each rep getting close to 5k effort, rest 2-3 minutes).

Thanks again @DopeyBadger

 

[DopeyBadger]

I ran a 57:02 at the 10k on Saturday and the weather was quite good, I agree.

My splits were: 8:48, 8:59, 9:28, 9:47, 9:29, 9:33 (then .20 at 8:01).

Definitely didn't start out too aggressive at the mile one split. Where was your headspace at when you hit the 8:59 and then 9:28?

So I technically didn't even have a specific training block for this race. I just started a new training block in base building phase right now. I ran this 10k race using fitness from my last half marathon training block (the HM I raced on April 6th). That was a 16 week block that started in December 2023 and technically ended on April 6, 2024.

So what was the training like in the last four weeks (post 4/6) compared to the four weeks prior to the HM? You say you went into base building, so did you pull back on volume and intensity comparably? Admittedly, that's the right choice coming off the 16 week training block, but won't put you in a race ready state a month later.

Feb 2024, 38.04 miles in 9:36:43
December 2023, 39.36 miles in 9:31:32
September 2023, 37.37 miles in 7:55:28

(Last week, I ran 31.11 miles in 7:46).

Something seems off with the volumes. You're saying 38 miles in 9:36 hrs? That's a 15:09 min/mile average. Am I misunderstanding?

I do a variety of speed workouts (Example 1: 4 x 1000m repeats at 10k effort, building to 5k effort with 2 min recovery job between, faster at the end. Example 2: Track workout 5 x 800m at 5k pace, rest two minutes, 2 x 200m at mile pace, rest. Example 3: 3 x Mile repeats at 10k effort, build intensity with each rep getting close to 5k effort, rest 2-3 minutes).

All seem like reasonable speed workouts for the intended goal. Maybe a few longer reps needed at 10k effort, but it's doable. But when did these types of efforts occur recently? Before or after the April 6th HM training plan ended?

ETA- Also what was the date of the 26:13 5K?