The Running Thread -- 2022

[LSUlakes]

I'm probably getting a little ahead of myself here but here I go. I will complete c25k by late April and found a 5k near me about month later in May. I think this will give me plenty of time to not just complete the 5k, but to run it comfortably under 30 minutes. Well that search then had me looking into other months for races and I then remembered a night time trail run of 10 miles in August. This is where it went extreme, I looked into the date for our local marathon (Louisiana Marathon) and it's mid January. I thought, that's interesting... then proceed to go through our books to finally find the one book in the back "Advanced Marathoning". Hmmm 18 weeks, peek at 55 miles/week. Well I've done it before, what does recommend before starting the program? Well the answer was 25 mpw and 12-13 mile long run comfortably...hmmm. So 18 weeks plan is starting in September.. ok. Finish 5k training in April would then give me 4.5 months to get up to running 10-15 mile long runs? So I did what any non responsible person would do while at work, I continued research and worked backwards from race day. Come to find out, it is possible to do so and to do so safely. The not safe part... my wifes reaction when I tell her of this crazy idea.
I think for now I will continue my 5k plan and see how things go. I started looking at my past race results and came across my last marathon time which was a PW by 2 hours at WDW. That was the result of lot of things that resulted in nearly no training. IDK, but I have the itch and I am looking forward to each run that I have on my plan now... they are just so spread out lol.

Updates on the medical part of things. Sleep study result posted, but I do not see the doctor till April 13. From my uneducated observations of the report it looks like I will be getting one of those mask things. I'm told its a game changer once you get use to it, but boy I am not looking forward to it.

 

[gosalyn_mallard]

That looks like a really cool race! Is it much cooler in the cave for the last bit of the run?

Surprisingly, it was slightly hotter and humid in the cave!... I think due to several small ponds in the cave and a narrow-ish tunnel near the entrance. The water made for some really cool formations. At one point my daughter remarked that it looked like Big Thunder Mountain's cave.

Really unique race, plus they had live music and pulled pork sandwiches at the finish line!

 

[DopeyBadger]

March 2022 Training Summary

Running duration = 22:06 hours
Running mileage = 156.2 miles
Average Pace = 8:30 min/mile (about 65 sec/mile slower than recent Marathon)
Average HR = 121 (24 bpm less than recent Marathon)
Strength Training = 0 hours
Total Training Time = 22:06 hours

It was a nice relaxing March. I did the 5k+Princess Challenge in February. I came out healthy and feeling alright. I considered doing a training plan focused on the mile like I did in Spring 2020. But I decided just to back off the specificity of the training for the time being. I've been doing a lot of treadmill running. The conditions outside weren't terrible (wind, snow, rain, etc on most of the days). If I were training for something specific, I'd have been outside. But instead I watched March Madness, some recent movies and TV shows, and I've been playing Elden Ring (video game on the Xbox) so I've resorted to watching YouTube walkthroughs for it because I don't have 200+ hours to spend beating this game on my own. So I've just mostly been setting the treadmill to 7mph (8:35 min/mile) and zoning out on whatever is on the TV. It's been nice. I've got two 5ks with my daughter coming up in May and June. So we'll get back outside to resume her running soon enough. Otherwise, the only other thing I'm eyeing is the November Madison Marathon. I'm just kind of letting the running come to me and staying in a good holding pattern. Nice to have run 156 miles this month and feel pretty fresh as if I haven't stressed that hard.

 

[DopeyBadger]

I don't know how you feel about people tweaking the plans you set up for them, @DopeyBadger, but you might want to add my experience this month as a data point in your plan efficacy metrics. I used the Dopey plan you set up for me back in 2017 to train for both the 100k and 100m races I've run. I modified them a bit by moving mileage to the weekend to give some longer Saturday runs before my Sunday long runs, but kept total weekly mileage to what you'd designed. I think it says something that the plan, with a maximum long run of 16 miles, prepared me to complete the 100k and get through 76 miles of the 100 miler. I still maintain that I would have finished with a better early race strategy and weather conditions, too. Thanks again for a plan that continues to serve me well!

Glad to hear it. More evidence that good aerobic training doesn't mean you've got to put in massive single run mileage. A nice balance, adequate recovery, appropriate pacing, paying attention to duration can all be means to a successful race day. More than half of the battle when it comes to race day is balancing doing enough in training to meet your goals and avoiding doing too much.

 

[ckb_nc]

March was a good month with 96 miles of running; and 327 miles of riding. My goals were actually to reduce my mileage in 2022 but I had a good deal of both time to train and relatively good weather here in North Carolina. My biggest impediment has been the pollen.

I had my first race of the year in March, which I did a first for me - a DNS. Why? My wife is a high school teacher and her school was the boys 3a high school championship. We followed the team all year, and the championship game was at noon 3 hours away. The race was back at 6pm at home, but I knew I could spend all day traveling and then race.

 

[gjramsey]

Blue Bell Fun Run Half Marathon Race Report

There are hills, and the hills are hard! Brenham is the home of Blue Bell ice cream, and this event is in its 44th year. They added a Half to the event about 4-5 years ago. I have done the 10k a couple of times, so this was the first time for the trying the half. I had run a good part of the course last June, so knew there were climbs, and climbs and more climbs, and for this Houston area flat-lander, hills are rare. I swear we went up much more than we went down. Garmin recorded 880 feet of elevation gain during the run.

They have packet pickup the morning of the race, so I got on the road early for the hour drive to Brenham. Parked in the fairgrounds parking lot for the event and walked to the school to get my bib and shirts. They handed out the half finishers shirt and medal at pickup, so I could have just headed home and saved my legs. Went back to the car and hung out for about 30 minutes before warming up and heading to the start line, which was about a half mile from the parking lot. The half was capped at 500 runners. Saw several folks from my running club and chatted for a while before the race started.

Race started at 7:30 and the temp was around 60 with a dewpoint about the same. Not ideal. The Bluebonnets were out in force and some real nice fields between miles 7 and 8.

Mile 1 - 7:41
Mile 2 - 7:42
Mile 3 - 7:41
Mile 4 - 7:48
Mile 5 - 7:36
Mile 6 - 7:34
Mile 7 - 7:44 (longest sustained uphill stretch)
Mile 8 - 7:46
Mile 9 - 7:31 (mostly downhill)
Mile 10 - 7:32
Mile 11 - 8:33 (hills suck!) (mainly the one that looks like a wall to go over a railroad track)
Mile 12 - 7:29 (seemed like the flattest mile of the race)
Mile 13 - 8:14 (uphill, slight downhill, long uphill)
Finish - 1:18 (sub 7 pace, all downhill to the finish)

elevation map of the half

1/7 AG, 31/193 male, 36/418 overall.

Really happy with the results and really did not expect to win my age group. Had a race back in early Feb and realized that running does not equal training.

 

[lookingforsunshine]

I have a confession… I went on my first run since MW today . I have been doing a lot of walking, strength, and my Peloton but it’s about to be triathlon season so my triathlon coach is having me run 1x week until I get back from my bike trip in mid-May. It was very easy (more walking than running) and felt good.

 

[avondale]

Blue Bell Fun Run Half Marathon Race Report

There are hills, and the hills are hard! Brenham is the home of Blue Bell ice cream, and this event is in its 44th year. They added a Half to the event about 4-5 years ago. I have done the 10k a couple of times, so this was the first time for the trying the half. I had run a good part of the course last June, so knew there were climbs, and climbs and more climbs, and for this Houston area flat-lander, hills are rare. I swear we went up much more than we went down. Garmin recorded 880 feet of elevation gain during the run.

They have packet pickup the morning of the race, so I got on the road early for the hour drive to Brenham. Parked in the fairgrounds parking lot for the event and walked to the school to get my bib and shirts. They handed out the half finishers shirt and medal at pickup, so I could have just headed home and saved my legs. Went back to the car and hung out for about 30 minutes before warming up and heading to the start line, which was about a half mile from the parking lot. The half was capped at 500 runners. Saw several folks from my running club and chatted for a while before the race started.

Race started at 7:30 and the temp was around 60 with a dewpoint about the same. Not ideal. The Bluebonnets were out in force and some real nice fields between miles 7 and 8.

Mile 1 - 7:41
Mile 2 - 7:42
Mile 3 - 7:41
Mile 4 - 7:48
Mile 5 - 7:36
Mile 6 - 7:34
Mile 7 - 7:44 (longest sustained uphill stretch)
Mile 8 - 7:46
Mile 9 - 7:31 (mostly downhill)
Mile 10 - 7:32
Mile 11 - 8:33 (hills suck!) (mainly the one that looks like a wall to go over a railroad track)
Mile 12 - 7:29 (seemed like the flattest mile of the race)
Mile 13 - 8:14 (uphill, slight downhill, long uphill)
Finish - 1:18 (sub 7 pace, all downhill to the finish)

elevation map of the half
View attachment 659520
1/7 AG, 31/193 male, 36/418 overall.

Really happy with the results and really did not expect to win my age group. Had a race back in early Feb and realized that running does not equal training.

Congratulations! That's a terrific race, especially with all the hills!

 

[xjillianpaige]

quick request for some advice...

I need to adjust my long runs this month because I'm going to nantucket for a weekend and my plan calls for 19 that saturday. I'd prefer not to run 19 miles in a place I don't know (surrounded by the ocean) by myself, but if I have to I will...

Anyway, here are my long runs (not including this weekend's 17 miles) through that weekend up to race day:

18
13
19 (nantucket weekend)
12
20
12
8
race day

would it be a bad idea to switch the 13 and 19 mile run? I told my friends I had the miles to do and if I had to wake up early I would do what I must, but it would be nice to be able to get out for 2 and a half hours instead of almost 4 hours. thoughts? other ideas? - is there a way to build mileage during the week and cut that week way down?

 

[FFigawi]

You're not going to lose much by dropping your 19 down to 13-ish, especially if you're doing 17 this week and 18 next week. If you feel you need to keep the total weekly mileage the same as in your plan, you could add a mile or two to your weekday runs. For what it's worth, I wouldn't worry about running alone on Nantucket. It's tough to get lost, and the island itself is quite safe.

 

[DopeyBadger]

Anyway, here are my long runs (not including this weekend's 17 miles) through that weekend up to race day:

18
13
19 (nantucket weekend)
12
20
12
8
race day

would it be a bad idea to switch the 13 and 19 mile run? I told my friends I had the miles to do and if I had to wake up early I would do what I must, but it would be nice to be able to get out for 2 and a half hours instead of almost 4 hours. thoughts? other ideas? - is there a way to build mileage during the week and cut that week way down?

I went a little backwards through your training journal because knowing what you've done recently is relevant as well.

2/27-12
3/6-9
3/13-14
3/20-15
3/27-HM Race
4/3-17
4/10-18
4/17-13
4/24-19 (nantucket weekend)
5/1-12
5/8-20
5/15-12
5/22-8
5/29-race day

First thing. You're on an absolute roll with your training right now setting a ton of PRs. So the least you deviate from the original training plan the better. Because you can keep the ball rolling and best set yourself up for race day.

But of course, there's the life considerations when it comes to the training plan. I think the 13 miles on 4/17 represents a critical down period in training. You'll have done 5 weeks in a row of building (14, 15, HM race, 17, 18). If you push the 19 miler on the back end of this, I think you're putting yourself in a really bad place. Without the down period in training you're potentially not allowing the bones to heal appropriately and may develop a bone related injury. Certainly not a 100% thing it would happen, but the odds continue to go up the more consecutive weeks of stacking. So I don't think moving 19 miles to 4/17 is a good idea. In addition to @FFigawi's suggestion, I suggest the following:


4/3-17
4/10-13
4/17-19
4/24-13 (nantucket weekend)
5/1-15 (taken at a slower than normal long run pace)
5/8-20
5/15-12
5/22-8
5/29-race day

This will mess with peaking a little compared to your original plan, but I think it'll serve you better than moving the 19 miler behind the 18 miler.

If you choose to spread out some mileage during the week instead, then adhere to the following. Don't exceed 120 min on more than one weekday, and it should occur on Wednesday/Thursday. If you're not usually doing greater than 60 min weekday runs, then don't stack two consecutively. If you're not usually doing greater than 90 min weekday runs, then don't stack two consecutively. The body responds differently to runs at durations of >60 min, 60-90 min, 90-120 min, and >120 min. So the sequence of the weekday runs matters to make sure that you have appropriate recovery/adaptation time between the different duration types.

 

[xjillianpaige]

You're not going to lose much by dropping your 19 down to 13-ish, especially if you're doing 17 this week and 18 next week. If you feel you need to keep the total weekly mileage the same as in your plan, you could add a mile or two to your weekday runs. For what it's worth, I wouldn't worry about running alone on Nantucket. It's tough to get lost, and the island itself is quite safe.

Thanks! I found a half marathon route on nantucket that seems manageable. If I get on the road by 6:30 am and do a half marathon, I should be back to our Airbnb by 9 am and can shower and join my friends for breakfast and the rest of the day. Running 19 miles would most likely get me back closer to 10:30 and now, with showering and breakfast, I've lost more of my day.

I went a little backwards through your training journal because knowing what you've done recently is relevant as well.

2/27-12
3/6-9
3/13-14
3/20-15
3/27-HM Race
4/3-17
4/10-18
4/17-13
4/24-19 (nantucket weekend)
5/1-12
5/8-20
5/15-12
5/22-8
5/29-race day

First thing. You're on an absolute roll with your training right now setting a ton of PRs. So the least you deviate from the original training plan the better. Because you can keep the ball rolling and best set yourself up for race day.

But of course, there's the life considerations when it comes to the training plan. I think the 13 miles on 4/17 represents a critical down period in training. You'll have done 5 weeks in a row of building (14, 15, HM race, 17, 18). If you push the 19 miler on the back end of this, I think you're putting yourself in a really bad place. Without the down period in training you're potentially not allowing the bones to heal appropriately and may develop a bone related injury. Certainly not a 100% thing it would happen, but the odds continue to go up the more consecutive weeks of stacking. So I don't think moving 19 miles to 4/17 is a good idea. In addition to @FFigawi's suggestion, I suggest the following:


4/3-17
4/10-13
4/17-19
4/24-13 (nantucket weekend)
5/1-15 (taken at a slower than normal long run pace)
5/8-20
5/15-12
5/22-8
5/29-race day

This will mess with peaking a little compared to your original plan, but I think it'll serve you better than moving the 19 miler behind the 18 miler.

If you choose to spread out some mileage during the week instead, then adhere to the following. Don't exceed 120 min on more than one weekday, and it should occur on Wednesday/Thursday. If you're not usually doing greater than 60 min weekday runs, then don't stack two consecutively. If you're not usually doing greater than 90 min weekday runs, then don't stack two consecutively. The body responds differently to runs at durations of >60 min, 60-90 min, 90-120 min, and >120 min. So the sequence of the weekday runs matters to make sure that you have appropriate recovery/adaptation time between the different duration types.

Thank you! I think I'm going to shift my plan to the long runs you've outlined here. It feels manageable with life stuff. Below is the rest of the Higdon plan I've been using (novice 2). The 19 and 20 mile runs have me doing 5-5-5 during the week (which is much more easily attainable now that I'm back in the office 4 days a week) so I'll adjust so that I do that weekday plan for the 19 and 20 in this adjusted plan.

Then the other weeks I'll do 5-8-5 (or whatever is outlined after the 20 week).




Thank you both again for your perspectives and guidance! Right now my race day plan is to hang out with the 5:30 pace group and see how I feel as I get closer to the finish. I feel like they'll help me sort of slow down at the start so I have fuel in the tank at the end to really kick it into high gear.

 

[Naomeri]

So…pro tip for any Disney runners that actually make it to fireworks time in Magic Kingdom and don’t care about seeing the projections on the castle (or really, seeing the castle at all) and just want a great view of the big fireworks. Go sit at the tables outside Gaston’s Tavern. It’s closed, so nobody is there, and there’s stools, so you don’t have to stand!

I can‘t focus on the castle projections and fireworks at the same time, so I would rather just see the pyrotechnics, and this worked out great tonight after more than 50,000 steps in the 10 miler and the parks.

 

[steph0808]

I forgot to update for the last two months.

February Running
Miles: 77.6
Time: 13:47:19
Avg HR: 140
Avg Pace: 10:43

March Running
Miles: 105.8
Time: 18:30:33
Avg HR: 137
Avg Pace: 10:33


Feeling good and excited to hit 100 miles in March! I ran a 10k on Saturday (the 10th anniversary of my first race!) and did 51:57. It was about a minute slower than when I ran the same course in October - but I was doing high mileage and running 5 days/week in preparation for a marathon then. I'm happy with my time this weekend!

I'm not sure what my race schedule looks like for the year. I wanted to do a half marathon next month, but I think I might have to fly out that day for a work trip.

I think I'll just keep aiming for 25-30 miles/week for now, and cross my fingers that I get into Dopey when registration opens later this month. That will determine my fall training plan.

 

[kps7795]

@DopeyBadger I distinctly remember seeing a guideline for post-race recovery from Jack Daniels based on the number of miles/kilometers run in a race and how many days off for recovery. However, I cannot locate that section of the Daniel's Running Formula. Do you remember what the formula is and where to find it in the book? I remember that it breaks down to two weeks for a marathon.

 

[GreatLakes]

I finally got to run the Cherry Blossom 10 miler that I signed up for in late 2019 this past weekend. What a great event. It was a quick trip out with just one of my friends. We left Friday afternoon and came back after the race. Back when we signed up I thought my son would be too young to really enjoy a weekend in DC but with the two year delay he would have had a blast. I think this is a race I'll do again at some point and bring him for the kid's race and a day at the Smithsonian.

The course was pretty flat, the support was really good, and every meal I had in DC was excellent. It has been a few years and I forgot how much I love walking around the city.

I have been in recovery mode since MW trying to make sure I am not injured going into the summer and then Boston (hopefully) training in the fall so I wasn't sure what to expect. I started the race by feel and after a few miles I decided to try and come in under 1:30 half pace (6:52) and came in at 6:49. It felt hard but I wasn't on the edge the whole time so I think my W&D goal of a sub 40:00 10K followed but a sub 1:30 half is doable.

 

[DopeyBadger]

@DopeyBadger I distinctly remember seeing a guideline for post-race recovery from Jack Daniels based on the number of miles/kilometers run in a race and how many days off for recovery. However, I cannot locate that section of the Daniel's Running Formula. Do you remember what the formula is and where to find it in the book? I remember that it breaks down to two weeks for a marathon.

Daniels suggests one day off or easy for every 3k of racing. So a HM at 21km would be 7 days off or easy (21km / 3km = 7). If it's the end of a training cycle, then I'd lean more towards off. If the race is in the middle of a training cycle, then I'd lean towards easy days instead of off. Then it comes down to whether it's an attempt at multiple "A" races and an attempt to maintain peak, or a series of "B" races leading into an "A" race.

As a side note, Daniels has a formula for "rate of decay of VO2max" in his 3rd edition book. He states that running VO2max drops 0.3% for every day off without non-running aerobic leg exercise, and drops 0.15% per day with non-running aerobic leg exercise. The maximal loss (or complete detrain) occurs at 8 weeks (or 72 days) at a loss of 20% of peak. So typically people worry about taking time off and how they'll lose so much fitness. If you took off 7 days post-HM, you'd go from a 100% VO2max value to 99.4-99.7% VO2max. That's like going from a 41:20 peak fitness 10k to 41:28-41:32. Extremely minimal impact in the short term. You might feel lethargic when you come back, but the fitness is there.

He also recommends equal time return to equal time off. So if you take off 7 days post-HM, then you'd want a minimum of 7 days easy running before resuming any type of structured training.

As for where to find these things, I don't remember off hand exactly. I believe the "rate of decay" is in a table near the back of the book when it talks about what to do when injured and returning to running. The time off for running is somewhere towards the racing section of the book, but I don't remember where. If I remember, I can try and look tonight.

 

[kps7795]

Daniels suggests one day off or easy for every 3k of racing. So a HM at 21km would be 7 days off or easy (21km / 3km = 7). If it's the end of a training cycle, then I'd lean more towards off. If the race is in the middle of a training cycle, then I'd lean towards easy days instead of off. Then it comes down to whether it's an attempt at multiple "A" races and an attempt to maintain peak, or a series of "B" races leading into an "A" race.

As a side note, Daniels has a formula for "rate of decay of VO2max" in his 3rd edition book. He states that running VO2max drops 0.3% for every day off without non-running aerobic leg exercise, and drops 0.15% per day with non-running aerobic leg exercise. The maximal loss (or complete detrain) occurs at 8 weeks (or 72 days) at a loss of 20% of peak. So typically people worry about taking time off and how they'll lose so much fitness. If you took off 7 days post-HM, you'd go from a 100% VO2max value to 99.4-99.7% VO2max. That's like going from a 41:20 peak fitness 10k to 41:28-41:32. Extremely minimal impact in the short term. You might feel lethargic when you come back, but the fitness is there.

He also recommends equal time return to equal time off. So if you take off 7 days post-HM, then you'd want a minimum of 7 days easy running before resuming any type of structured training.

As for where to find these things, I don't remember off hand exactly. I believe the "rate of decay" is in a table near the back of the book when it talks about what to do when injured and returning to running. The time off for running is somewhere towards the racing section of the book, but I don't remember where. If I remember, I can try and look tonight.

Thank you as always. It's just driving me crazy because I KNOW that I previously read this in the book following the marathon, but I cannot find it anywhere.

 

[Kerry1957]

Race Report - Run the Bluegrass Half Marathon, Lexington, KY

This is another race report where the word "hills" will be mentioned several times. This was my fourth RTB and for a race that describes itself as "America's Prettiest Half Marathon" it does not disappoint. The race starts and ends at Keeneland thoroughbred racecourse and winds through hilly and narrow and hilly roads surrounded by horse farms.

I'll get the hilly part out of the way first, by saying my Garmin reported I ran up 98 flights and ran down 96 flights during the HM, so in addition to 13.1 miles horizontally, I made it up and down a near 100-story building.

This was a fun run for me, with no expectation of a PR. I started with the 2:45 pace group. When I asked the leader if she was going to run continuous or intervals she said intervals, but that we will not walk down any hill and will be forced to walk up many hills. I liked that approach, and started with the group, but after a couple of miles I felt good and started pulling away and ran most of the race on my own. I ran pretty steady mile paces and finished in 2:36 (just under 12:00 minutes per mile).

The race weekend is a celebration of running, horses, and bourbon. This year featured Affirmed, the horse who won the Triple Crown in 1978. Steve Cauthen, Affirmed's jockey was on hand to sign medals and a special single barrel bourbon release. He is the only jockey to ever win Sports Illustrated Sportsman of the Year and was an absolute delight to chat with. All in all, a very fun event.

 

[GollyGadget]

We're over 1/4 of the way into 2022 so I thought now was a good time to reflect on my goals for the year.

I've signed up for the 1000 mile challenge

I ended March with 256 miles so right on track with this one. Had a bit of a slow start with marathon weekend recovery and some subsequent pain on my lower right side but things are clicking right along now.

I'd like to set a new HM PR (<1:50:49)

Time will tell how this goes. My training this session hasn't been great but it's been okay. I only need to cut ~4 min from my time in January and that included lots of photo stops. I'm not sure how accurate Garmin moving time is, but that was 1:53, so maybe just 2 min improvement...10 seconds per mile? Sounds possible.

My first test will be in 3 weeks. If that doesn't work out, I'm registered for another half in 9 weeks because I apparently can't resist signing up for races that start a few blocks from my house.

Speaking of races near my house, I signed up for a late September 10K last week because it's literally 3 blocks away. I didn't have 10K PR in my goals for the year, but now I'm thinking about it. My current pr is 50:15 and if I'm actually capable of a 1:50 hm, seems a sub 50 10k is also possible.

I don't know the last time I trained for a 10k specifically or if I even have. What training plans do y'all recommend for the distance?

- Reintroduce some cross training into my life.

This goal is not going so well. I was forced to add some PT exercises due to the hip/knee pain in Jan and Feb. I do much better if I have a program to follow and now that I'm settled into my new home I have the space, weights, and DVDs to get on this. However, with 3 weeks to go before my race I feel like I should wait until after... But there's also no time to start like the present?

- Last but not least, train for the 2023 WDW Marathon

Haven't started on this one but still looking good. I'll have 15 weeks for marathon training after the aforementioned 10k.

How's everyone else progressing with their goals?