The Running Thread -- 2022

[Marebear_runs]

Went out and did a 5k this weekend despite the knee pain. Knee brace helped a little but still was disheartening to not be able to run pain free and the pace I normally run. So with being discouraged I reached out to some local resources. The common theme I got was to stop trying to treat the knee by rolling it out, massage gun, etc, but to fix the root of the problem and that it is more than likely weak glute medias and TFL area. They said a sports message therapist can help release the IT band and provide some temp relief but the issue will come back unless those two areas are strengthened. I did some YouTube video browsing after that and saw lots of videos that had this same way of thinking and exercises to strengthen those areas. Going to try those out and see how it goes.

I struggled with an IT band issue a few years ago. In my case, my PT figured out it was caused by my mild scoliosis, which I’ve known about since I was a kid but never think about because it’s never caused any issues.
I struggled through PT and massage for months, focusing on strengthening the side glute/hip per her recommendation. I had pain through everything and nothing seemed to make any improvement. My knee would “pop” throughout the day and even getting out of bed hurt. I eventually gave up and stopped all exercise other than walking until I was completely pain free throughout the day (probably took me 2 months). Then I slowly eased back into exercise and running.

I have been fine ever since but I make sure to run on mostly even surfaces and avoid tracks. I’ve noticed things start to get tight if I’m on a slanted road or if I run loops on a track with too many turns. I’ve also noticed that crossing my legs at work too much makes it more sensitive.

Obviously, this is anecdotal and your experience may be entirely different but I just wanted to say I know how extremely frustrating and painful this can be. I hope it improves quickly for you!

 

[GreatLakes]

I had quite the snow slog yesterday. I love trail running in the snow and it wasn't even cold enough for a jacket yesterday (25° and wind chill of 14°) but I did a little 6.8 mile run that was brutal. The trails weren't really broken so the snow was a little deep but the problem was the composition. We have been getting this really light and airy snow, which is great for shoveling, but even with my deep lug trail shoes I got no grip. I'm glad I powered through but it was rough going and resulted in a lot of walking as opposed to running.

The scenery was beautiful and the trail went through thick old growth evergreen clusters and a Christmas tree farm so it wasn't all bad.

 

[SarahDisney]

Bad idea. Even if you finish, being so undertrained sets you up for injury. If you are just not feeling it, maybe this is the time to take a break from running and give yourself a chance to miss it. Is this just felling blah about running or is there something else going on with your physical/mental health that needs attention? Any chance you can defer the entry?

If I defer I have to pay again next year. No way to cancel or bib transfer. And it's an expensive race. So not running isn't really an option. The options are running the race untrained or (what seems to be the better option) making myself miserable for 2 months of training.

ETA: Sorry I realized this sounds really witchy. But this idea of not running the race isn't a luxury I feel I have. I'm kinda surprised that so many people are just willing to eat the registration fees but I guess its just a different people feel differently about money thing?

 

[Herding_Cats]

If I defer I have to pay again next year. No way to cancel or bib transfer. And it's an expensive race. So not running isn't really an option. The options are running the race untrained or (what seems to be the better option) making myself miserable for 2 months of training.

will the misery of 2 months of training be worth the cost of the bib? (I would never be able to sign up for a race and then not do it, so I understand that part of things. But mental health is also important.)

There's a higdon 3-day/week plan for half marathons that you could probably follow to get yourself to a "good enough" level to completely your race without too much misery. I'm super inexperienced, so take anything i say with a healthy dose of caution. If I were in your shoes I would find some kind of 3-day-per-week plan, do that to get myself into "good enough" shape to do the race, use intervals, and call it good.

 

[GreatLakes]

If I defer I have to pay again next year. No way to cancel or bib transfer. And it's an expensive race. So not running isn't really an option. The options are running the race untrained or (what seems to be the better option) making myself miserable for 2 months of training.

ETA: Sorry I realized this sounds really witchy. But this idea of not running the race isn't a luxury I feel I have. I'm kinda surprised that so many people are just willing to eat the registration fees but I guess its just a different people feel differently about money thing?

As an economics professor once told me, never consider sunk costs in a decision. The money is spent regardless, it comes down to the opportunity cost of training. Depending on your fitness frequent 4 or 5 miles runs could train you just as much as less frequent longer runs.

 

[michigandergirl]

ETA: Sorry I realized this sounds really witchy. But this idea of not running the race isn't a luxury I feel I have. I'm kinda surprised that so many people are just willing to eat the registration fees but I guess its just a different people feel differently about money thing?

If you were injured and couldn't physically run the race, you would either defer or eat the registration fees, right? Why does it have to be different for mental health? If it's going to cause you stress and unhappiness to train for a race you don't want to run, then your option are: 1) train and be miserable or 2) eat the fees and be okay.

 

[xjillianpaige]

Maybe it was here that I mentioned potentially running the Martha's Vineyard Marathon in May.

Well, we can take that off the table because I have a major work event (our annual gala) that night.

Luckily... there's the Vermont City Marathon a week later. Has anyone run this? Thoughts?

 

[SarahDisney]

Thanks for all the comments and responses and reminders that if I'm gonna run this thing, training is key.

One thing I did not mention ... I ran 10 miles just for "fun" in December after having run a total of about 40 miles in the two months before that and was just fine so I doubt I would end up injured even if I didn't train.

Also ... since a few people have mentioned mental health: running the race would be good for my mental health. I've done this particular race twice before and it always makes me feel so great. Training is a different story. In my experience, races are good for my mental health, training makes me misterable. So skipping the race would probably not be the "good for my mental health" decision.
Also I know myself well enough to not make running decisions based on mental health because as someone who has lived with mental health conditions for 20 years, I know that small things like this aren't what make an impact for me. But that's me - I know a lot of people do see things like this having a major impact on mental health so I appreciate everyone bringing it up!

There's a higdon 3-day/week plan for half marathons that you could probably follow to get yourself to a "good enough" level to completely your race without too much misery. I'm super inexperienced, so take anything i say with a healthy dose of caution. If I were in your shoes I would find some kind of 3-day-per-week plan, do that to get myself into "good enough" shape to do the race, use intervals, and call it good.

Oh, I wasn't going to run more than 3 days a week even if I do train. I mostly write my own training plans and the last one I wrote was three runs per week. That's about as much as I can tolerate.
Also, lack of experience doesn't equal lack of knowledge and your input is super valuable!

If you were injured and couldn't physically run the race, you would either defer or eat the registration fees, right? Why does it have to be different for mental health? If it's going to cause you stress and unhappiness to train for a race you don't want to run, then your option are: 1) train and be miserable or 2) eat the fees and be okay.

This sounds crazy but I don't really get major running injuries so it's not a factor I would consider at all. Also, it's not training for a race I don't want to run, it's not wanting to train for a race I want to run. So that makes it even more confusing.

 

[sandam1]

Went out and did a 5k this weekend despite the knee pain. Knee brace helped a little but still was disheartening to not be able to run pain free and the pace I normally run. So with being discouraged I reached out to some local resources. The common theme I got was to stop trying to treat the knee by rolling it out, massage gun, etc, but to fix the root of the problem and that it is more than likely weak glute medias and TFL area. They said a sports message therapist can help release the IT band and provide some temp relief but the issue will come back unless those two areas are strengthened. I did some YouTube video browsing after that and saw lots of videos that had this same way of thinking and exercises to strengthen those areas. Going to try those out and see how it goes.

The advice that you are finding is the exact advice that my PT (who is also a runner) gives. You can apply as many band-aids (braces, massage guns, biofreeze, etc.) as you want, but if you don't fix the actual problem, you are going to eventually run yourself out of running because it gets so bad. Oh, and the sooner you address an injury, the quicker the recovery (P.S. My PT probably wants to tattoo this concept on the inside of my eyelids as I am a very slow learner when it comes to this principle. )

I hate to beat a dead horse, but I love the training program that my PT put together called RunSmartOnline as it is designed to prevent and treat injuries specifically in runners. For me, the RSO recovery theories make sense, even if it isn't always what I want to hear. If you are interested, below is a link to a 5 minute video that explains his theory quite concisely:

https://fb.watch/aKDe2R9uoS/

P.S. I don't get anything from recommending the program. I just like the "all in one" design and overall accessibility of it. And it isn't stupid expensive either.

 

[Naomeri]

In my experience, races are good for my mental health, training makes me misterable.

Do virtual races give you the same happiness as in-person races? If yes, maybe turn some of the training runs into virtual races?

I’m a bling-motivated runner, so signing up for virtual races that correspond to training runs give me extra boost to get off my butt and do the darn run, whether I’m really in the mood or not.

 

[Bree]

Went out and did a 5k this weekend despite the knee pain. Knee brace helped a little but still was disheartening to not be able to run pain free and the pace I normally run. So with being discouraged I reached out to some local resources. The common theme I got was to stop trying to treat the knee by rolling it out, massage gun, etc, but to fix the root of the problem and that it is more than likely weak glute medias and TFL area. They said a sports message therapist can help release the IT band and provide some temp relief but the issue will come back unless those two areas are strengthened. I did some YouTube video browsing after that and saw lots of videos that had this same way of thinking and exercises to strengthen those areas. Going to try those out and see how it goes.

Definitely don’t roll or massage the knee. The IT band at the knee is angry and it will only make it worse. I roll areas higher with either a foam roller or my new favorite - a lacrosse ball between my body and a wall. It really gets in there deep!!! I use Voltaren on my knee 3-4 times a day along with icy hot or biofreeze as needed. I’m still icing after any periods of activity. The masseuse at the PT works higher up on my leg and in the glute area. The PT spends a lot of time stretching and doing active release along with exercises and strength training that I also do at home. Progress has been slow, but I’m far better off than I was two months ago.

ETA: I am lifting weights again. The only thing my knee says no way to is any kind of step up or box jump. Squats and deadlifts feel just fine. I have to do modified lunges due to just how weak my left side is, but it’s getting easier!

 

[SarahDisney]

Do virtual races give you the same happiness as in-person races? If yes, maybe turn some of the training runs into virtual races?

Ooh, that's something I hadn't thought of! I fell kinda out of love with virtual races during the pandy when everything was virtual, but its been long enough since I did one that maybe that's worn off ... maybe I'll try a free virtual race (the race organization that does my half also does some virtual runs that have a free option and the strava badge is strangely motivating to me) to see how that feels before I move on to paid races. But that's a good call.

... or maybe I'll register for virtual princess and force myself to run a half a month earlier than planned, which is a crazy idea but good bling

 

[sandam1]

Progress has been slow, but I’m far better off than I was two months ago.

That brings me to one more thing - you need to have PATIENCE, particularly if this is an injury that has been brewing for a long time.

And yes, my PT is laughing hysterically somewhere at me offering this advice because I regularly ask him the "when can I" question with a great deal of impatience. But I know that whenever I have tried to rush things and/or cut corners, it has come back to bite me. I still get a little cranky when I see the "not yet" on my weekly training plan, but I have started to trust the process and I trust my PT implicitly.

Runners are not the most patient people on the planet.

 

[garneska]

That brings me to one more thing - you need to have PATIENCE, particularly if this is an injury that has been brewing for a long time.

And yes, my PT is laughing hysterically somewhere at me offering this advice because I regularly ask him the "when can I" question with a great deal of impatience. But I know that whenever I have tried to rush things and/or cut corners, it has come back to bite me. I still get a little cranky when I see the "not yet" on my weekly training plan, but I have started to trust the process and I trust my PT implicitly.

Runners are not the most patient people on the planet.

Funny i did not want you to think i forgot about the runsmart program. My PT said she would look at it but i am pretty sure i am going to try it out. AFTER my PT gives me the clear to do stuff. I am a broken record on the i was injured the entire training cycle for the marathon and a bit worse after. I too like to say when can I. Before the race I told her I was planning a reset take a little time off to recover. I went last week monday and was full of can i do this, what about this. She was like no walking more than 4 miles (why because i was walking for exercise, not running) but i could still feel pain in the knee. Not enough that i had to stop or anything but definitely i can feel that knee walking but the other one is completely fine. So she capped me, said to try the elliptical or bike (which i am doing as well) and only go as hard as it not hurting. I asked about exercises and she said, I NEVER say this, but non weight bearing. I got the point, she wants me to rest for two weeks. I see her again next monday. I am still expecting no running but moving up on the doing things because over the weekend when i went for my walk my knee did not hurt.

TL;DR: Not patient, want to do stuff, PT shut me down and really was like take a little time off. Just a week in and i am able to walk without pain .

 

[garneska]

@SarahDisney wanted to comment on can you run a half without training. The answer is yes. For one, you do other stuff. You are not sitting on the couch all day doing nothing. You do barre, you walk, you are being active. My DH did the half at MW. He may have ran like 4 times before the half. I know it is not a great comparison but he did it. He set his expectations to be I want to get through this. In his case he does not enjoy running or races and yet we not throwing away his registration fees (plus i think he wanted the medal). During the race he has some specific strategies so he did not bonk. In his case not go out to fast, in fact be intentionally slow.

So the answer is you can do the half without training.

Edited to add he has run and trained for halfs before. He was just really bad about it this time. Pandemic and all.

 

[sandam1]

Funny i did not want you to think i forgot about the runsmart program.

No worries! It'll be there when you are ready. And actually on our monthly Q&A last night we got a preview of some new features that they are going to be adding in the next few months and they look VERY cool.

My PT said she would look at it but i am pretty sure i am going to try it out. AFTER my PT gives me the clear to do stuff. I am a broken record on the i was injured the entire training cycle for the marathon and a bit worse after. I too like to say when can I. Before the race I told her I was planning a reset take a little time off to recover. I went last week monday and was full of can i do this, what about this.

That sounds exactly like me. I think my PT was impressed today when he asked what was next on my calendar and I told him nothing until I got his okay. He got me through Marathon Weekend (well, as much as he could) and now I'm going to be patient and actually finish healing.

She was like no walking more than 4 miles (why because i was walking for exercise, not running) but i could still feel pain in the knee. Not enough that i had to stop or anything but definitely i can feel that knee walking but the other one is completely fine. So she capped me, said to try the elliptical or bike (which i am doing as well) and only go as hard as it not hurting.

You should feel lucky - you got more latitude than me. Last week I was tied to the bike for the week. I wasn't happy about it, but I had to admit that he was right as the foot is still a bit tender from time to time. This week I got him to (reluctantly) give me okay to walk as long as I kept it short, relatively slow, and stayed in the level 1-2 on his pain scale (aware of it or feels it).

I asked about exercises and she said, I NEVER say this, but non weight bearing. I got the point, she wants me to rest for two weeks. I see her again next monday. I am still expecting no running but moving up on the doing things because over the weekend when i went for my walk my knee did not hurt.

TL;DR: Not patient, want to do stuff, PT shut me down and really was like take a little time off. Just a week in and i am able to walk without pain .

I've been in non-weight bearing jail as well - when I first went in to see him for the plantar fasciitis and right after we got back from our November trip to Florida when I managed to completely overdo it. It's not a lot of fun! But I will tell you that you will appreciate everything you can do 1000 times more when you get released. For this week, I've got a full slate of PT exercises and I'm looking for them since it means that I get to do something which is much better than nothing.

 

[lookingforsunshine]

Thinking about my race schedule for the rest of the year and the potential of my Goofy or Dopey redemption. My primary race right now this year is the Chicago Olympic Triathlon the last weekend of August. This will involve a .9 mile swim, a 24.8 mile bike, and a 10k run. The Detroit International Half Marathon is October 16, so 7 weeks after the triathlon. This race has a challenge that caught my eye— you do the 1 mile and 5k races on Saturday and then the half on Sunday. This would give me some early marathon weekend practice with racing two days in a row (my best half time ever also came with a similar challenge in Little Rock— I think the short Saturday run helps me work out some nerves). So, my question is— is the 7 weeks enough time? I imagine I’ll get up to 8 miles in running distance during triathlon training because we tend to go over the distance since you are combining sports. & should I just go for the challenge?

 

[gosalyn_mallard]

Training is a different story. In my experience, races are good for my mental health, training makes me miserable.

What is it about training that makes you miserable?

 

[FFigawi]

Thinking about my race schedule for the rest of the year and the potential of my Goofy or Dopey redemption. My primary race right now this year is the Chicago Olympic Triathlon the last weekend of August. This will involve a .9 mile swim, a 24.8 mile bike, and a 10k run. The Detroit International Half Marathon is October 16, so 7 weeks after the triathlon. This race has a challenge that caught my eye— you do the 1 mile and 5k races on Saturday and then the half on Sunday. This would give me some early marathon weekend practice with racing two days in a row (my best half time ever also came with a similar challenge in Little Rock— I think the short Saturday run helps me work out some nerves). So, my question is— is the 7 weeks enough time? I imagine I’ll get up to 8 miles in running distance during triathlon training because we tend to go over the distance since you are combining sports. & should I just go for the challenge?

You'll be in plenty good enough shape after you Olympic to roll right into the challenge. An Olympic will take you somewhere between 2:15 to 3:15. That’s about the same time/endurance as a half marathon. Dial back some bike mileage, add a bit to your runs, and you’ll be fine.

 

[SarahDisney]

What is it about training that makes you miserable?

Hmm. Gotta think about that. It's mostly a general feeling of dreading every run, but I guess there are a few factors that I can identify:
1 - Consistently getting out of bed early (running later in the day is not an option for a few reasons), particularly this time of year when I'm awake before the sun
2 - The repetition. I can vary my routes a bit, I can vary my speed a bit (although I usually don't), I can even vary my music, but as a general concept, running is a fairly repetitive act. And varying the types of runs I do doesn't seem to help much, mostly because its before coffee and I'm not great at remembering what I was planning to do.
3 - It feels so time consuming. Even when its not. Sometimes I come home, look at the clock, and realize I had time for another mile or two. But while I'm out there, I always feel like I'm rushed. Which is probably in part because I'm slow, but also probably a reflection of the fact that running isn't important enough to me for me to want to spend that much time on it.

Interestingly, looking at this list, a lot of it can apply to races too, but I think the race being a special event makes it more enjoyable.

Also, I did go out and run this morning. 3 miles, which is about average for me (minus when I'm on vacation or visiting family, I've been doing one or two 2-4 mile runs every week), so I am running, its just the being forced to be consistent about it because its training and not just movement time that's rougher on me.