The Running Thread - 2020

[PrincessV]

Kinda specific for a QOTD, but I'm asking anyway, in case anyone here has knowledge!

Despite doing everything right, genetics caught up with me as I approach age 50 and I've started taking a calcium channel blocker (amlodipine) for high blood pressure. From all I read, I expected not to notice any difference in my running, or possibly a decrease in ability, but no: after 3 weeks on the med, my workouts keep feeling better and better! Running at the same perceived level of effort - a comfortable pace I can do for 10 miles or more, no huffing and puffing, able to hold a conversation - I'm hitting faster paces, and I'm handling heat soooo much better than ever. I frankly feel like I'm doping! All of which is amazing and awesome. BUT - I've also noticed that my HR at that same comfortable pace is 10 points or more higher than it was at the same feeling of effort before the BP med.

Dr. Google is totally letting me down on this: I can't seem to find anything useful. Is this higher BP bad?? Or is it a sign of increased cardio capacity and I just need to do a new max HR test to get new target zones? Previously, I was running in a 138-150 range for a zone 3; now, running at the same perceived effort, I'm coming in around 148-160 bpm.

I have a follow-up with my doctor in a few weeks, but thought I'd throw it out there in case anyone here can shed some light on this weird situation...

 

[Waiting2goback]

With warm weather (and a conscious effort to shorten my stride), I continue to have great runs. Saturday was an easy 3 miles and I came back feeling great and like I could have kept going even though I'd adjusted my intervals down from 50 seconds walking to 45. Felt very tempted to immediately adjust again, but next weekend's run will be a bit longer again so I'm going to hold off and see how I feel about it at a longer distance.

Question (slightly gross):
For those who carry their phones in a pocket in their running outfit, how do you prevent it from being destroyed by your sweat? I have fallen in love with my skirt from Skirt Sports and its three (three!!) pockets, and I am very happy to ditch the armband for my phone and carry it in a leg pocket instead. So far I've just kept it turned with the back of the case against my leg to minimize moisture transfer, but I think as I get out on longer runs that's not going to cut it. Do I just put the phone in a ziplock bag?? I hate to because it adds bulk, but maybe I just need to find a ziplock size closer to the size of my phone. Any other ideas? Thankfully I no longer need to run a headphone cord from the phone, as I've gone to wearing Aftershokz and it's all bluetooth. Don't even have to get the phone out to pause the music.


Mmm, oatmeal craisin cookies used to be my go-to potluck dessert. I like them better than with regular raisins; the contrast between the mellow oatmeal and the tangy cranberry is the best. Haven't made them in years; I should revisit that....

I use a RooPouch. It fits right around my waistband of my shorts/pants and it’s water proof. I discovered it before the 2016 Disney full and have been using one since. The large fits an iPhone 8+ with a case on it and it has more room for keys and nutrition if needed.

I run in the rain and heavy sweat situations in the summer and never a problem with my phone getting wet.

Kinda specific for a QOTD, but I'm asking anyway, in case anyone here has knowledge!

Despite doing everything right, genetics caught up with me as I approach age 50 and I've started taking a calcium channel blocker (amlodipine) for high blood pressure. From all I read, I expected not to notice any difference in my running, or possibly a decrease in ability, but no: after 3 weeks on the med, my workouts keep feeling better and better! Running at the same perceived level of effort - a comfortable pace I can do for 10 miles or more, no huffing and puffing, able to hold a conversation - I'm hitting faster paces, and I'm handling heat soooo much better than ever. I frankly feel like I'm doping! All of which is amazing and awesome. BUT - I've also noticed that my HR at that same comfortable pace is 10 points or more higher than it was at the same feeling of effort before the BP med.

Dr. Google is totally letting me down on this: I can't seem to find anything useful. Is this higher BP bad?? Or is it a sign of increased cardio capacity and I just need to do a new max HR test to get new target zones? Previously, I was running in a 138-150 range for a zone 3; now, running at the same perceived effort, I'm coming in around 148-160 bpm.

I have a follow-up with my doctor in a few weeks, but thought I'd throw it out there in case anyone here can shed some light on this weird situation...

Isn’t blood pressure medication supposed to drop your numbers? But if this is making running easier can you send me a box please?

I wish I knew the answer. I would probably analyze the numbers too but I felt jealous reading it and thinking, just enjoy the improvements and forget the numbers. : )

 

[Waiting2goback]

This isn’t directed at Princess V, just a coincidence it popped up today. Seemed fitting for this virus situation. I find myself struggling with being stuck in the house more and more as time passes.

 

[DopeyBadger]

Kinda specific for a QOTD, but I'm asking anyway, in case anyone here has knowledge!

Despite doing everything right, genetics caught up with me as I approach age 50 and I've started taking a calcium channel blocker (amlodipine) for high blood pressure. From all I read, I expected not to notice any difference in my running, or possibly a decrease in ability, but no: after 3 weeks on the med, my workouts keep feeling better and better! Running at the same perceived level of effort - a comfortable pace I can do for 10 miles or more, no huffing and puffing, able to hold a conversation - I'm hitting faster paces, and I'm handling heat soooo much better than ever. I frankly feel like I'm doping! All of which is amazing and awesome. BUT - I've also noticed that my HR at that same comfortable pace is 10 points or more higher than it was at the same feeling of effort before the BP med.

Dr. Google is totally letting me down on this: I can't seem to find anything useful. Is this higher BP bad?? Or is it a sign of increased cardio capacity and I just need to do a new max HR test to get new target zones? Previously, I was running in a 138-150 range for a zone 3; now, running at the same perceived effort, I'm coming in around 148-160 bpm.

I have a follow-up with my doctor in a few weeks, but thought I'd throw it out there in case anyone here can shed some light on this weird situation...

Definitely seems like a conversation with the doctor. It seems a tad unusual given the limited research I could find in a cursory search of running and amlodipine. Seems like the majority suggest no major change in performance metrics (VO2max, LT, time to exhaustion, HR, etc).

https://link.springer.com/article/10.2165/00044011-199612030-00003https://www.drugs.com/tips/amlodipine-patient-tipshttps://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10689266
So what you're seeing is an increased HR with faster pace, but yet the effort feels lower? Is the pace to HR relationship the same with and without the medication? So cardiovascularly you're the same (HR v Pace still same), but tolerance is better. I would say it would be surprising to see your maxHR dramatically increase, but this is definitely outside my wheel house. Maybe you're reducing your blood pressure increases you normally see during your exercise in hot conditions? I'd say be cautious with your pacing until you can talk it through with your physician who hopefully has some background in running/endurance.

I know a few years ago my doctor had prescribed me Diltiazem (a different calcium channel blocker) for my Raynaud's. But there was good research on that particular one that it could inhibit performance and lower resting HR. Since my resting HR at the time was 45, I convinced them to prescribe something different. I believe they prescribed me Amlodipine because it was suppose to have minimal effects on running performance and resting HR. I ended up choosing not to take the Amlodipine they prescribed me because of the tapering effects of the medication and cause I wanted to try other measures to control the Raynaud's before going the medication route. But I think in practice Amlodipine was the go to calcium channel blocker for runners.

I'll be interested to hear the outcome!

 

[avondale]

Definitely seems like a conversation with the doctor. It seems a tad unusual given the limited research I could find in a cursory search of running and amlodipine. Seems like the majority suggest no major change in performance metrics (VO2max, LT, time to exhaustion, HR, etc).

https://link.springer.com/article/10.2165/00044011-199612030-00003https://www.drugs.com/tips/amlodipine-patient-tipshttps://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10689266
So what you're seeing is an increased HR with faster pace, but yet the effort feels lower? Is the pace to HR relationship the same with and without the medication? So cardiovascularly you're the same (HR v Pace still same), but tolerance is better. I would say it would be surprising to see your maxHR dramatically increase, but this is definitely outside my wheel house. Maybe you're reducing your blood pressure increases you normally see during your exercise in hot conditions? I'd say be cautious with your pacing until you can talk it through with your physician who hopefully has some background in running/endurance.

I know a few years ago my doctor had prescribed me Diltiazem (a different calcium channel blocker) for my Raynaud's. But there was good research on that particular one that it could inhibit performance and lower resting HR. Since my resting HR at the time was 45, I convinced them to prescribe something different. I believe they prescribed me Amlodipine because it was suppose to have minimal effects on running performance and resting HR. I ended up choosing not to take the Amlodipine they prescribed me because of the tapering effects of the medication and cause I wanted to try other measures to control the Raynaud's before going the medication route. But I think in practice Amlodipine was the go to calcium channel blocker for runners.

I'll be interested to hear the outcome!

I take Diltiazem for Raynaud's. I've been doing this for many years...maybe since before I started running? Can't remember for sure. However, my rheumatologist says it's OK for me to start and stop taking it as I want, so sometimes during the summer I stop it for awhile. I have not noticed any effect on my HR or BP - my BP is naturally pretty low. My resting HR is on the low end but not really unusual. I have also not noticed an effect on my running effort/HR/whatever.

When I first starting taking a calcium-channel blocker for Raynaud's, I started with a different drug. Perhaps it was amlodipine, since you both reference it. Whatever it was, it make me bloat up and gain >5 pounds water weight in about a week, so I talked to the doc about trying something else.

 

[avondale]

I have never put my phone in a ziplock in my pocket and I have never had an issue with sweat damaging my phone. But I guess I will knock on some wood right now.....

My current phone and my last couple before it were waterproof/resistant, so I have never worried about it when running. The only time I've really thought the baggie would be useful is when the phone gets so wet that the touch-screen doesn't work. I've had runs in the pouring rain where I can't get the phone dry enough to distinguish the touch of my finger from all the wetness.

 

[PrincessV]

Isn’t blood pressure medication supposed to drop your numbers?

Only BP - and it has done that: I'm down by about 15 points! Everything I read said it shouldn't affect HR one way or another.

So what you're seeing is an increased HR with faster pace, but yet the effort feels lower?

Yep. I mean, I'm still slow, but it's a faster slow and the same feeling of effort, lol! I was running around a 13:45-13:55 avg pace pre-amlodipine, and every run with amlodipine I'm running at the same feeling of effort, but watching my pace drop - yesterday it dropped to a 12:55 avg.

Maybe you're reducing your blood pressure increases you normally see during your exercise in hot conditions?

That's my theory - figure if amlodipine works by dilating blood vessels, more blood flowing = better heat tolerance due to better cooling? In 75* + meds, I now feel like I did running in 50* and no meds. It's more striking than HR.

So putting this all together, yeah - maybe it really is a matter of just plain feeling better at the higher HR, not necessarily that my overall HR range has increased. That could make sense. My resting HR is the same: around 50-60. My max was around 185-190; I can't imagine that's gotten higher. IIt might be worth trying to run/walk based on HR instead of perceived effort and see what pace that winds up being.

But I think in practice Amlodipine was the go to calcium channel blocker for runners.

My doc picked that one particularly because it's usually well tolerated and doesn't seem to negatively impact athletes. Also because it doesn't require constant lab tests.

Whatever it was, it make me bloat up and gain >5 pounds water weight in about a week, so I talked to the doc about trying something else.

I gained 3lbs immediately! But 3 weeks later it's coming back off. I was warned it can cause leg swelling, but I haven't noticed that.

Sorry - we're getting into TMI territory here, but if we can talk about cold butts, y'all can handle this, right?! Another thought: at the same time I started the amlodipine, I also stopped taking a birth control pill. I've read repeatedly that the pill can decrease athletic performance. So it's entirely possible I'm seeing "increased" performance from that, as opposed to the amlodipine.

 

[DopeyBadger]

I take Diltiazem for Raynaud's. I've been doing this for many years...maybe since before I started running? Can't remember for sure. However, my rheumatologist says it's OK for me to start and stop taking it as I want, so sometimes during the summer I stop it for awhile. I have not noticed any effect on my HR or BP - my BP is naturally pretty low. My resting HR is on the low end but not really unusual. I have also not noticed an effect on my running effort/HR/whatever.

Thankfully for now I've been able to get my Raynaud's under control. It's really only an issue when driving the car. But the vessels popping a few years ago hasn't happened since that one winter (thankfully!). In addition to my normally low resting HR, I have passed out a few times in my life at a specific time of day which the doctor thinks was due to a very sudden drop in blood pressure. So just more reasons I was really apprehensive about starting it up.

I'm sure you've investigated this, but could there be any connection between the use of Dilitazem and your chronic headaches/migraines? Like it's dropping your blood pressure too low?

Yep. I mean, I'm still slow, but it's a faster slow and the same feeling of effort, lol! I was running around a 13:45-13:55 avg pace pre-amlodipine, and every run with amlodipine I'm running at the same feeling of effort, but watching my pace drop - yesterday it dropped to a 12:55 avg.

That's pretty awesome! As long as it ends up being safe, I'd say that's a nice side effect!

That's my theory - figure if amlodipine works by dilating blood vessels, more blood flowing = better heat tolerance due to better cooling? In 75* + meds, I now feel like I did running in 50* and no meds. It's more striking than HR.

So putting this all together, yeah - maybe it really is a matter of just plain feeling better at the higher HR, not necessarily that my overall HR range has increased. That could make sense. My resting HR is the same: around 50-60. My max was around 185-190; I can't imagine that's gotten higher. IIt might be worth trying to run/walk based on HR instead of perceived effort and see what pace that winds up being.

Seems plausible!

 

[avondale]

Thankfully for now I've been able to get my Raynaud's under control. It's really only an issue when driving the car. But the vessels popping a few years ago hasn't happened since that one winter (thankfully!). In addition to my normally low resting HR, I have passed out a few times in my life at a specific time of day which the doctor thinks was due to a very sudden drop in blood pressure. So just more reasons I was really apprehensive about starting it up.

I'm sure you've investigated this, but could there be any connection between the use of Dilitazem and your chronic headaches/migraines? Like it's dropping your blood pressure too low?

I do have to be self-aware about dizziness from sudden BP drops. Not usually an issue. But following up on your recent birthday, Raynaud's tends to get worse as you get older...so many joys of aging.

One of the reasons that I went off diltiazem for awhile last summer was to see if it had an effect on my headaches. Not that I could tell. I started the diltiazem many years before the headache started, also. And they aren't migraines, thank goodness. It just goes on and on.

 

[TheHamm]

@YawningDodo , I tend to put my phone in a sandwich bag when I will be running in a chance of rain, when it is humid, or on a long run when I know I will be sweaty. I have found sandwich bags are thin enough I can still use the touch screen through the plastic whereas I cannot when I use the thicker freezer bags.

 

[Princess_Nikki]

I’m crazy and run with my phone in my hand for everything. I’ve run four marathons that way and I train that way.

Same. I do too.

 

[Grumpy_42K]

I'm old-school and have never run anywhere with my phone. EVER!
It stays dry and pristine on the counter.
I know many of you simply can't relate...

 

[YawningDodo]

The "how to protect your phone from sweat/rain" is always fun for figuring out who lives in FL vs. who doesn't, lol! As a Floridian, my phone goes in a baggie about 90% of my runs. 1. because it's hot enough most of the year that my clothes - including pockets where phone goes - get soaking wet with sweat, not just a little damp, and 2. because for most of the year there is always a chance of spontaneous rain.

I grew up in Colorado and live in Montana now--so we've got that whole dry heat thing going on. I honestly worry a little about my first time running in Florida being the marathon; I hadn't started running yet when I lived in Florida and then Texas so I never got a feel for how the humidity might affect my performance. I tend to prefer running in warm or even hot weather, but I have a feeling that's going to be less true where it's not so dry!

Good point about the rain, though...much less frequent chance of it here, but the best times of year for running are also the times of year I'm most likely to get doused.

@YawningDodo , I tend to put my phone in a sandwich bag when I will be running in a chance of rain, when it is humid, or on a long run when I know I will be sweaty. I have found sandwich bags are thin enough I can still use the touch screen through the plastic whereas I cannot when I use the thicker freezer bags.

I was playing around with it the other night and I was surprised how well the touch screen worked through a ziplock bag! I think I'd built it up in my mind as this big thing where it was going to make my phone unusable and bulky (not that I get it out much if at all during the run anyway) and it turns out it's really not that big of a deal to just bag it.

 

[Angelica123]

Kinda specific for a QOTD, but I'm asking anyway, in case anyone here has knowledge!

Despite doing everything right, genetics caught up with me as I approach age 50 and I've started taking a calcium channel blocker (amlodipine) for high blood pressure. From all I read, I expected not to notice any difference in my running, or possibly a decrease in ability, but no: after 3 weeks on the med, my workouts keep feeling better and better! Running at the same perceived level of effort - a comfortable pace I can do for 10 miles or more, no huffing and puffing, able to hold a conversation - I'm hitting faster paces, and I'm handling heat soooo much better than ever. I frankly feel like I'm doping! All of which is amazing and awesome. BUT - I've also noticed that my HR at that same comfortable pace is 10 points or more higher than it was at the same feeling of effort before the BP med.

Dr. Google is totally letting me down on this: I can't seem to find anything useful. Is this higher BP bad?? Or is it a sign of increased cardio capacity and I just need to do a new max HR test to get new target zones? Previously, I was running in a 138-150 range for a zone 3; now, running at the same perceived effort, I'm coming in around 148-160 bpm.

I have a follow-up with my doctor in a few weeks, but thought I'd throw it out there in case anyone here can shed some light on this weird situation...

I am just speculating here... But when you have high blood pressure, there is a high resistance to blood flow and the blood vessels are narrowed. The heart has to work to overcome that resistance. During exercise, our heart rate (and stroke volume) increases to increase cardiac output. Your blood vessels dilate to improve blood flow to your organs (primarily heart and muscle).

On the amlodopine, the blood vessels are more dilated. This vasodilation is useful for temp regulation, which is perhaps why you feel you are handling the heat better. You can get a reflex increased heart rate on amlodipine (although it's unusual) - have you noticed any change in your baseline heart rate at rest? Your body is still adjusting to a new blood pressure. When you have high blood pressure for a while, autoregulation of blood flow to organs such as kidneys and brain changes. Once high blood pressure is treated it takes a while for that autoregulation to adjust back to normal. My speculation (and this is purely speculation), is that your body is still trying to maintain your old blood pressure while exercise (because the adaption of autoregulation is slow to adapt) . To maintain blood pressure that while you are more vasodilation, the easiest way to increase cardiac output is by increasing heart rate. So I wonder if because of the benefits of the vasodilation on temp regulation, your perceived effort is lower, but your actual effort is higher. That would fit with both your heart rate being up and your pace being slightly faster. My instinct is that despite feeling great, you may be pushing your body more than you perceive and might benefit from keeping to your normal pace /HR for a few more weeks.

But this is just speculation based on my knowledge of physiology and definitely a good idea to check with your physician.

 

[PrincessV]

I was playing around with it the other night and I was surprised how well the touch screen worked through a ziplock bag!

One weird thing I've found is that when my baggie's been used a bunch of times (I reuse it until it develops a hole), my touchscreen gets a little glitchy - like it just isn't as responsive through the bag. I have two methods for dealing with this: 1. I'll just open the zipper and stick my finger in there to touch the screen, or 2. I give my phone a shake, curse at it, and try again. Both work lol!

But this is just speculation based on my knowledge of physiology and definitely a good idea to check with your physician.

This is amazing and TOTALLY makes sense - thank you!! That's basically what I concluded last night, but couldn't put into medical terms. I did a short speed workout last night - legitimate hard effort, with corresponding paces - and my HR wasn't much higher than the previous day's lower effort and pace. I think it's going to take time to adjust to what "easy" feels like now, because New Easy just plain feels better than Old Easy. I'm going to set a HR alert on my watch for my next runs and run by that instead of perceived effort - hopefully that'll help my brain adjust to what comfortable should be feeling like, without the stress of trying to hit a certain pace or constantly looking at HR.

ETA: forgot to add that my resting HR is the same - around 50-60bpm. And HR drops as normal after I stop running, down to 90-100 within a couple minutes of walking. So I'm not super worried, just confused lol!

 

[avondale]

This is amazing and TOTALLY makes sense - thank you!! That's basically what I concluded last night, but couldn't put into medical terms. I did a short speed workout last night - legitimate hard effort, with corresponding paces - and my HR wasn't much higher than the previous day's lower effort and pace. I think it's going to take time to adjust to what "easy" feels like now, because New Easy just plain feels better than Old Easy. I'm going to set a HR alert on my watch for my next runs and run by that instead of perceived effort - hopefully that'll help my brain adjust to what comfortable should be feeling like, without the stress of trying to hit a certain pace or constantly looking at HR.

ETA: forgot to add that my resting HR is the same - around 50-60bpm. And HR drops as normal after I stop running, down to 90-100 within a couple minutes of walking. So I'm not super worried, just confused lol!

For amusement value, one of my three 12-yo cats has high blood pressure (yes, imagine trying to measure BP on a cat!)...we give him amlodopine for it. It's mixed into a liquid with chicken and marshmallow flavor, and he gets a whole half-milliLiter. If you ever have trouble taking the meds, try them with chicken and marshmallow!

 

[kleph]

If the neighborhood ice cream truck plays "It's A Small World" they are obligated to take the Disney Dining Plan. No?

 

[rteetz]

Received a survey today from a local race about the future. They asked questions about whether or not I would be interested in a virtual, what sort of things I would be interested in for a race to take place like masks, spacing, etc. This race is still on as of now for August so it will be interesting to see what happens going forward.

 

[Dopey 2020]

End of another month already!
April totals
86.4 miles
9’34”/mile

hope everyone had a good month and is getting along just fine

 

[FFigawi]

April totals
Swim: 0 miles
Bike: 390 miles, ~23,000' elevation gain
Run: 3.1 miles