The Running Thread - 2018

[OldSlowGoofyGuy]

Got an appointment with a doctor...

Thinking of you, hoping for a good diagnosis, sending osteoblastic thoughts...

 

[dis_or_dat]

So jealous of everyone's mileage. Still can barely eek out 25 min for a run. But will attempt a 12 mile run this weekend. Just a little nervous as I started to get a twinge of left hamstring pain and a whiff of PF after a long run last week.

August:
Total: 123.32
Pace: 7:48

@DopeyBadger sorry to hear about your ankle. Maybe it's best to be seen by a sports medicine specialist, especially one that works with runners/is a runner. If I want to see a specialist I'll usually email my primary with a detailed explanation of my problem and ask for the referral. Everyone's coverage is different, but can't hurt to try.

 

[Keels]

Thanks for the tip. I can't view any of the TrainerRoad workouts/plans at the moment. Do you find them to be a better choice then the Zwift ones (which you can view here - link)? I'll defer to your experience. It looks like my speed/cadence sensor and cheap trainer would be supported by the Virtual capability. But if I'm going to be doing this more often, then it might be time to invest in something. Although my wife wants to get a Peloton bike when the house is finished (and me possibly the Peloton Tread). Thanks for the help.

I’ll take a look at the Zwift plans when I get back to mainland tomorrow. @FFigawi is familiar with that, but - like me - he also has a coach that loads in training loads for him to do and Zwift is just a way to execute the training load for that workout.

But speed/cadence is only so helpful, honestly. It’s two small variables that play into overall cycling theory.

The best investment I made was a power meter. It ties into my bike computer and gives a far better reading of my output. For instance - there’s no way you’re averaging 22 mph on your trainer rides. You’re just not. That’s like TdF speed. Are you clipped in? Or just using flat pedals and sneakers? If it’s the later, then it’s impossible ... you’re more likely clocking around 12-15 mph - which is still fine, but you’re relying on HR and a “dumb” trainer to come up with these numbers, and you’re not doing any training with climb or resistance to simulate what a trainer is supposed to do - long-distance ride outside when you can’t ride.

On your next ride, do the most tension you can on your trainer and then try to do the ride in the highest gear possible (IDK what gear-set you have on this bike, but I’d say biggest ring, highest gear) and give your legs a real workout at the same cadence and see how you fair. You’ll be surprised.

 

[DopeyBadger]

I’ll take a look at the Zwift plans when I get back to mainland tomorrow. @FFigawi is familiar with that, but - like me - he also has a coach that loads in training loads for him to do and Zwift is just a way to execute the training load for that workout.

But speed/cadence is only so helpful, honestly. It’s two small variables that play into overall cycling theory.

The best investment I made was a power meter. It ties into my bike computer and gives a far better reading of my output. For instance - there’s no way you’re averaging 22 mph on your trainer rides. You’re just not. That’s like TdF speed. Are you clipped in? Or just using flat pedals and sneakers? If it’s the later, then it’s impossible ... you’re more likely clocking around 12-15 mph - which is still fine, but you’re relying on HR and a “dumb” trainer to come up with these numbers, and you’re not doing any training with climb or resistance to simulate what a trainer is supposed to do - long-distance ride outside when you can’t ride.

On your next ride, do the most tension you can on your trainer and then try to do the ride in the highest gear possible (IDK what gear-set you have on this bike, but I’d say biggest ring, highest gear) and give your legs a real workout at the same cadence and see how you fair. You’ll be surprised.

Take your time, no rush.

All fair points. I mean the dumb trainer I have does have a computer attached to it that has nothing to do with the speed/cadence sensors (mileage is coming from the computer). But I've always doubted it's accuracy (even though it gave the same value as Zwift it's all based on bad data). That's the biggest thing that has bothered me the most with my biking is all the bad data. Knowing me, I'd just dive into the highest end rig I could find just so I could finally have extremely accurate data.

Since my only desire is indoor biking, then would a smart trainer make more sense for me than a power meter? Maybe something like the Elite Direto. Or is a power meter/computer still needed even with a smart trainer like that one? Just a really pricey investment which isn't good timing right now.

 

[Wendy98]

Thanks for the tip. I can't view any of the TrainerRoad workouts/plans at the moment. Do you find them to be a better choice then the Zwift ones (which you can view here - link)? I'll defer to your experience. It looks like my speed/cadence sensor and cheap trainer would be supported by the Virtual capability. But if I'm going to be doing this more often, then it might be time to invest in something. Although my wife wants to get a Peloton bike when the house is finished (and me possibly the Peloton Tread). Thanks for the help.



Uneducated guess would be an ankle stress fracture. But I'm struggling to find any pain to touch and I've only failed the jump test once. So I'm not entirely sure. It started just above the ball of my ankle. It has since moved about 1-2 inch above that area. But the shin splint pain on Tues/Wed was about 2-3 inch below the knee (on the same inner side of the leg).

If you can't find a "sore spot", then I don't think stress fracture. Possibly a tendon issue? This is one area that has always plagued me and I still have problems there. Do you have any odd feet issues? My flat fleet kind of get blamed for everything but I think it is because they don't know what else to say. Most recently, I have seen a orthopedic foot and ankle specialist (podiatrist is worthless for this kind of stuff). To get the best diagnosis, you will need an MRI so they can see what is going on inside.

 

[Wendy98]

August running:

total miles: 270.32
avg. pace: 7:15/mile

Month started out slow because of a spontaneous trip to WDW but picked up the last couple of weeks. I am still battling plantar fasciitis and I am just plain "over it".

 

[Bree]

August total:

65 miles

Side note: I was sharing with my husband the number of miles others ran this month (in my amazement) and he asks how many I ran. I meekly answered and he gives me a look. Then he says " That's a lot!" And he's right. When I started this journey a few years ago, my goal was to run 1 mile without stopping. Then my goal was to run a 5k without stopping. My plan was to stick to 3 miles being my longest run. Now here I am training for a half marathon! I should be proud of me and I am proud of me. DH is also proud of me . All is well!

65 miles is a lot of miles! You should be proud of yourself! The half marathon is my favorite distance. Which half are you training for? I’m sure you’ve mentioned it, but my memory is horrible.

 

[Smilelea]

65 miles is a lot!!! This is my first journey into crazy numbers and I'm already excited for my post race break. Be proud!!
Ps I really like half marathons

Thank you! On one hand, I'm pumped about the half. On the other hand, my long run today was 7 miles and by the end I was thinking "I have lost my mind! I want to run almost double this far in 5 months?!?"

Congrats on 112 miles! I can't imagine that many in one month at this point. But maybe one day......

65 miles is a lot of miles! You should be proud of yourself! The half marathon is my favorite distance. Which half are you training for? I’m sure you’ve mentioned it, but my memory is horrible.

Thank you! I'm doing the half in January. Not only my first half marathon but also my first Disney race. Woohoo!

 

[Kathymford]

Thank you! On one hand, I'm pumped about the half. On the other hand, my long run today was 7 miles and by the end I was thinking "I have lost my mind! I want to run almost double this far in 5 months?!?"

I soooo remember these days when training for my first half! Then every weekend was like that! It’s amazing what we can do when we put our minds (and bodies) to it!

August Totals
Running: 8.6 miles, A very sad August of only 4 runs
Bike: 18.8 miles, also only 1 ride this month

So apparently, a very lazy August for me. I knew it was true but seeing it in data like this is very jarring. No injury excuses, not even that busy at work. Just super lazy. Need to figure out how to get out of this rut.

And on that note, I’m going for a run now. Thanks for the motivation.

 

[Baloo in MI]

Hello to all,

I hope that everyone out there on the thread are having a good end of summer. I dropped off the thread again. It has been really hard to read, talk, even think about running lately. I did have my surgery. After being bumped around a bit from my primary to several specialists I ended up setting a surgery date only to learn about another doctor who focused on runners/athletes, who was highly recommended. So I went to him and after just one conversation knew he was my guy! It postponed surgery by two more weeks but it will be worth it. So now I am post surgery by 4 days and stuck in a lazyboy chair. Foot up with no weight bearing at all for three weeks... The novelty of watching tv and “relaxing” has long evaporated and I am now slowly going mad! But the good news is the surgery was a success. Turns out the injury was a lot worse than the MRI showed. I had longitudinally shredded my paroneal tendon and also stretched out the structural ligaments in my ankle. My doctor said it was the worst case he had ever operated on. So it will be a long recovery after these first three weeks and I hope to be able to begin running again by winter.

So what have I learned? The MCU Movies are really good, a lazyboy chair is comfortable for a few hours and then is plain evil, if you feel a twinge in an ankle/knee/hip DO NOT run through it, seek second and third opinions and mostly enjoy running! I miss it. I will try to catch up on the thread, I have some downtime currently... good luck to all who might be racing this weekend!

 

[Keels]

Take your time, no rush.

All fair points. I mean the dumb trainer I have does have a computer attached to it that has nothing to do with the speed/cadence sensors (mileage is coming from the computer). But I've always doubted it's accuracy (even though it gave the same value as Zwift it's all based on bad data). That's the biggest thing that has bothered me the most with my biking is all the bad data. Knowing me, I'd just dive into the highest end rig I could find just so I could finally have extremely accurate data.

Since my only desire is indoor biking, then would a smart trainer make more sense for me than a power meter? Maybe something like the Elite Direto. Or is a power meter/computer still needed even with a smart trainer like that one? Just a really pricey investment which isn't good timing right now.

I’m about to give up on this CFB season, so I’ll look at the Zwift plans in a few.

Power meter vs Smart Trainer ...
I would probably go Smart Trainer - I ride my bikes outside more than in, so the power meter is more for that than anything else.

Personally, I wouldn’t shell out the $$$ for one straight out of the box. Watch Craigslist and Facebook groups in your area for people selling them as they upgrade/update. My fluid trainer was over $200 brand new, but I got it for $50 on a Facebook group. (Honestly, the computer, PM and S/C sensors are the only bike stuff I’ve boughr brand new ... so much more value in used stuff).

I’d also see if you can find a triathlon trainer/box/gym in your area and take your current bike up for a programmed Computrainer session, just to get a feel for what it’s supposed to feel like. The first Tri box I trained with would offer a kind of package where you could get V02Max testing with a couple Computrainer sessions for really reasonable - I’m thinking $75? Then you’ll get an idea of what a smart trainer workout is like (don’t worry about what kind of bike you’re using and definitely don’t let that stop you from going into a Tri box), but also all the professional base level data you’ll want to maximize those workouts.

I also did group swim workouts with them every Sunday, which was actually awesome - it was a good fatigue workout, but I also felt like I got a full body workout AND stretched out all my muscles like I guess yoga would do. But, then again, I really like swimming.

And I wouldn’t discount outdoor biking! I’ve even really started enjoying casual rides with my friends and their kiddos on the weekends. It’s a nice way to get outdoors.

 

[camaker]

I’m about to give up on this CFB season, so I’ll look at the Zwift plans in a few.

Power meter vs Smart Trainer ...
I would probably go Smart Trainer - I ride my bikes outside more than in, so the power meter is more for that than anything else.

Personally, I wouldn’t shell out the $$$ for one straight out of the box. Watch Craigslist and Facebook groups in your area for people selling them as they upgrade/update. My fluid trainer was over $200 brand new, but I got it for $50 on a Facebook group. (Honestly, the computer, PM and S/C sensors are the only bike stuff I’ve boughr brand new ... so much more value in used stuff).

I’d also see if you can find a triathlon trainer/box/gym in your area and take your current bike up for a programmed Computrainer session, just to get a feel for what it’s supposed to feel like. The first Tri box I trained with would offer a kind of package where you could get V02Max testing with a couple Computrainer sessions for really reasonable - I’m thinking $75? Then you’ll get an idea of what a smart trainer workout is like (don’t worry about what kind of bike you’re using and definitely don’t let that stop you from going into a Tri box), but also all the professional base level data you’ll want to maximize those workouts.

I also did group swim workouts with them every Sunday, which was actually awesome - it was a good fatigue workout, but I also felt like I got a full body workout AND stretched out all my muscles like I guess yoga would do. But, then again, I really like swimming.

And I wouldn’t discount outdoor biking! I’ve even really started enjoying casual rides with my friends and their kiddos on the weekends. It’s a nice way to get outdoors.

Do you have a recommendation for a power meter for road biking? I’ve been riding based only on GPS data and a cadence sensor and more data always seems like a good thing. Most of my riding is on crushed gravel “trail” and paved greenways as I’m not comfortable enough with my clipless pedals to spend significant time on the road yet.

 

[Baloo in MI]

@DopeyBadger I am so sorry to hear you are dealing with an injury. It looks like many others have already shared good feedback. I would also encourage you to see a running specialist. Before the specialist I went with I was being led to believe that it was a minor issue, and it was not! The hard part for me was that I had minimal pain, but just a lack of power in and around my ankle. In the end I had four different doctors say four different things - the keys where getting the second MRI and going with a docotor who is a runner and works with runners. He was able to lay it all out for me and show me the problem.

I hope that it turns out to be minimal!

 

[Keels]

Do you have a recommendation for a power meter for road biking? I’ve been riding based only on GPS data and a cadence sensor and more data always seems like a good thing. Most of my riding is on crushed gravel “trail” and paved greenways as I’m not comfortable enough with my clipless pedals to spend significant time on the road yet.

I have a PowerTap G3 Hub - it’s rear-wheel. It got good reviews on DC Rainmaker and I got a good deal on Amazon for it. When I’m healthy, I’d ultimately like to move it and that wheel set from my Ruby to my Dolce and then get a custom-fit crank and power pedals on my Ruby.

But here’s a link to DC Rainmaker’s guide and you can see what works best for you!

https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2017/11/power-meters-annual-buyers-guide-2017-edition.html

 

[camaker]

I have a PowerTap G3 Hub - it’s rear-wheel. It got good reviews on DC Rainmaker and I got a good deal on Amazon for it. When I’m healthy, I’d ultimately like to move it and that wheel set from my Ruby to my Dolce and then get a custom-fit crank and power pedals on my Ruby.

But here’s a link to DC Rainmaker’s guide and you can see what works best for you!

https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2017/11/power-meters-annual-buyers-guide-2017-edition.html

Thanks! I’ll take a look there. I ended up with a Roubaix, which I think is pretty similar to your Ruby. It’s been awesome. The only thing I wish I’d done was move up to the model with the hydraulic disc brakes.

 

[DopeyBadger]

If you can't find a "sore spot", then I don't think stress fracture. Possibly a tendon issue? This is one area that has always plagued me and I still have problems there. Do you have any odd feet issues? My flat fleet kind of get blamed for everything but I think it is because they don't know what else to say. Most recently, I have seen a orthopedic foot and ankle specialist (podiatrist is worthless for this kind of stuff). To get the best diagnosis, you will need an MRI so they can see what is going on inside.

Tendon was definitely my first thought. No real odd issues I'm aware of. My ankles crack like someone who cracks their knuckles. They've done that for a long long time. The MRI is going to be a tough sell because the last one in 2015 cost me $500-700. That's a steep price to pay for a hobby and a one time expenditure. And yes, I know health and all. Doesn't make it any easier to absorb that kind of cost for our family. Different then other things in terms of priority of cost.

Power meter vs Smart Trainer ...
I would probably go Smart Trainer - I ride my bikes outside more than in, so the power meter is more for that than anything else.

Sounds good.

Personally, I wouldn’t shell out the $$$ for one straight out of the box. Watch Craigslist and Facebook groups in your area for people selling them as they upgrade/update. My fluid trainer was over $200 brand new, but I got it for $50 on a Facebook group. (Honestly, the computer, PM and S/C sensors are the only bike stuff I’ve boughr brand new ... so much more value in used stuff).

Good thought. I'll keep an eye out.

I’d also see if you can find a triathlon trainer/box/gym in your area and take your current bike up for a programmed Computrainer session, just to get a feel for what it’s supposed to feel like. The first Tri box I trained with would offer a kind of package where you could get V02Max testing with a couple Computrainer sessions for really reasonable - I’m thinking $75? Then you’ll get an idea of what a smart trainer workout is like (don’t worry about what kind of bike you’re using and definitely don’t let that stop you from going into a Tri box), but also all the professional base level data you’ll want to maximize those workouts.

I'll see if I can find anything like that in the area.

I also did group swim workouts with them every Sunday, which was actually awesome - it was a good fatigue workout, but I also felt like I got a full body workout AND stretched out all my muscles like I guess yoga would do. But, then again, I really like swimming.

Always been a land based animal myself. Would take a lot of work for me to be able to swim properly. Also a bigger time commitment then I might be able to make.

And I wouldn’t discount outdoor biking! I’ve even really started enjoying casual rides with my friends and their kiddos on the weekends. It’s a nice way to get outdoors.

I'd have to drive somewhere else to do it, and that would add to the time commitment issue. Not the safest area around here to bike. Plus, I don't like to be far from home. So I certainly understand the appeal, but I'll stick to indoors for now.

@DopeyBadger I am so sorry to hear you are dealing with an injury. It looks like many others have already shared good feedback. I would also encourage you to see a running specialist. Before the specialist I went with I was being led to believe that it was a minor issue, and it was not! The hard part for me was that I had minimal pain, but just a lack of power in and around my ankle. In the end I had four different doctors say four different things - the keys where getting the second MRI and going with a docotor who is a runner and works with runners. He was able to lay it all out for me and show me the problem.

I hope that it turns out to be minimal!

Thanks man. The guy I saw earlier this year is only available to me on a referral. So I've got to see my primary first, and then I can meet with him to see. But an MRI is going to be a tough sell to the family with the cost. We'll see.

 

[Keels]

Thanks! I’ll take a look there. I ended up with a Roubaix, which I think is pretty similar to your Ruby. It’s been awesome. The only thing I wish I’d done was move up to the model with the hydraulic disc brakes.

I have a Ruby Elite! Is the Expert the one with hydraulics? Back when I got this bike, I didn’t even think about stuff like that - it was just such a good deal and it already had some upgrades to it (aerobars, tubeless wheels, etc.).

 

[camaker]

I have a Ruby Elite! Is the Expert the one with hydraulics? Back when I got this bike, I didn’t even think about stuff like that - it was just such a good deal and it already had some upgrades to it (aerobars, tubeless wheels, etc.).

I got the Roubaix Sport. The Elite is the first model with the hydraulic discs, at least in the 2018 models. I got mine new from a local store that did a lot of work with me. Knowing as little as I did about bikes when I started looking I figured it would be good to establish that relationship. The only extra I’ve added so far is the cadence sensor. I have enough trouble leaning over into the drop bars, im definitely not ready for aero bars yet.

We’ve got a lot of nice greenways and bridle trails to ride on locally here. The Roubaix is great for paved and relatively flat crushed gravel, but gets squirrelly if the gravel gets too loose or sloped. I’m already considering looking for something like a used Diverge or Crux that I could use for a little more aggressive training on hilly trails, now that I have a little better idea what I’m doing.

 

[Bree]

View attachment 347494 Hello to all,

I hope that everyone out there on the thread are having a good end of summer. I dropped off the thread again. It has been really hard to read, talk, even think about running lately. I did have my surgery. After being bumped around a bit from my primary to several specialists I ended up setting a surgery date only to learn about another doctor who focused on runners/athletes, who was highly recommended. So I went to him and after just one conversation knew he was my guy! It postponed surgery by two more weeks but it will be worth it. So now I am post surgery by 4 days and stuck in a lazyboy chair. Foot up with no weight bearing at all for three weeks... The novelty of watching tv and “relaxing” has long evaporated and I am now slowly going mad! But the good news is the surgery was a success. Turns out the injury was a lot worse than the MRI showed. I had longitudinally shredded my paroneal tendon and also stretched out the structural ligaments in my ankle. My doctor said it was the worst case he had ever operated on. So it will be a long recovery after these first three weeks and I hope to be able to begin running again by winter.

So what have I learned? The MCU Movies are really good, a lazyboy chair is comfortable for a few hours and then is plain evil, if you feel a twinge in an ankle/knee/hip DO NOT run through it, seek second and third opinions and mostly enjoy running! I miss it. I will try to catch up on the thread, I have some downtime currently... good luck to all who might be racing this weekend!

Oh man that looks painful! Are you out of work for three weeks as well? Maybe get some books or magazines? Watching tv & movies when I had to be immobile got old for me too. I remember napping a lot just to make the hours go by!

 

[Keels]

I got the Roubaix Sport. The Elite is the first model with the hydraulic discs, at least in the 2018 models. I got mine new from a local store that did a lot of work with me. Knowing as little as I did about bikes when I started looking I figured it would be good to establish that relationship. The only extra I’ve added so far is the cadence sensor. I have enough trouble leaning over into the drop bars, im definitely not ready for aero bars yet.

We’ve got a lot of nice greenways and bridle trails to ride on locally here. The Roubaix is great for paved and relatively flat crushed gravel, but gets squirrelly if the gravel gets too loose or sloped. I’m already considering looking for something like a used Diverge or Crux that I could use for a little more aggressive training on hilly trails, now that I have a little better idea what I’m doing.

Check out Surley for gravel/mountain bikes - they’re really great.