The Running Thread - 2016

[roxymama]

@Miranda I do not do intervals anymore, just straight running/jogging. But I was the same as you in reaction to the "run slower" really seeming odd once I saw what slow would mean for me. To give you an idea...during races 9:30-9:50ish is a sweet spot but my non-tempo training runs go up in the 12's for easy days and in the low 11's for my long runs. I actually think slowing down for these A) helps me like running more...in that I don't end up feeling dead after every training run and I don't want to skip them as much B) it makes me feel like when I attack my tempo/speed runs once a week (or even races) that I'm really doing something different and important.
It basically makes training runs more enjoyable for me and races/tempo as something "different" - in that I'm trying to "race."
I know it has benefits that I'm not listing but the above is a really good side effect.

QOTD: I am curious about how everyone plans their running schedule. How far into the future does your training plan go? How often do you find yourself revising pace/distance/ect once you originally planned them?
ATTQOTD: My "formal" training plans that have set schedules and workouts and paces are for my A races. I had one in the Spring and then I'm going to start one coming up later in July that takes me to my 15k in October. I've already told @DopeyBadger that I'm gonna bug him for help but I want to see how my body handles my 10k coming up to see what kind of paces we should go with (same as last time or something different.) I did a "blind" tempo run during my last training period with my watch totally covered and reported back my findings. I eerily hit my pace exactly on mile one which was crazy. Ended up not changing my paces for rest of the training period. I came within 2 seconds of my goal so I think it worked for me.
Right now I'm in an in-between time since I decided a July challenge weekend was not the time to have an A race because HOT HUMID HOT HUMID HOT. So I've been using my training strategies but adapting as I go.

 

[Miranda]

I think cross-training is pretty important, too, although I do have a hard time fitting in all the cross training that I feel like I "should" be doing. I never get any strength training in, and I had decided to do more yoga at least if I wasn't going to strength train, but my yoga membership has gone unused for months now, and I need to change that. I do cross train 2x per week with a spin class, though.

 

[roxymama]

Oh I forgot to mention, because I type to much and forget what I meant to type...
Last year my training was focused on "how can I get faster"
This year its on endurance "can I add distance while maintaining my current fitness and getting faster would be just a nice side effect but not the end game"
So training is different for me this year in that regard.

 

[Chaitali]

QOTD: I am curious about how everyone plans their running schedule. How far into the future does your training plan go? How often do you find yourself revising pace/distance/ect once you originally planned them?

My training plans are based around goal races. I tend to do early Spring races and late Fall races as goals so I generally have a large block of time in the Spring/Summer when I don't have a formal training plan. I just kind of wing it during that period to try to maintain fitness, do shorter races, and try new types of work outs for variety. Than I'll start my 12-16 week training plan according to my goal race.

Hi! I'm new to running, and new around these boards (although I have been following along for a while). I'm planning to do my first half marathon at the Star Wars Light Side weekend in January and I'm currently training for a 10k in August and trying to figure out a HM training plan for after that. One specific question I have is how important is cross-training? I got into running thinking I would follow the Galloway HM plan but I am not doing the run-walk method in my current training and I know many people think doing longer week-day runs (than the Galloway plan) is also a good idea. So, I am looking at other plans. However, most of the other plans I have seen include cross-training days (usually 2-3 per week) and I am wondering how important those are. I am currently running 3 days a week - I might be able to add a 4th day of activity (either running or cross-training) but probably not much more. So I am wondering if I can follow a HM training plan for the running days only and skip the cross-training? Or is that a bad idea? And if I can add a 4th day of activity to my schedule, would that time be better spent just doing more running, or adding in a cross-training activity? Thanks for any advice you are able to give! I have already learned so much from reading the discussions here

I think this is going to vary from person to person. Some people can run every day and not do any cross training and be fine. It didn't work well for me. I had a lot of knee pain when I started running. A PT recommended some exercises to strengthen my hips, core and glutes and it really helped. So maintaining the strength training is a priority for me. My ideal schedule is running 3 times a week and strength training 2 times a week.

 

[Miranda]

@Miranda I do not do intervals anymore, just straight running/jogging. But I was the same as you in reaction to the "run slower" really seeming odd once I saw what slow would mean for me. To give you an idea...during races 9:30-9:50ish is a sweet spot but my non-tempo training runs go up in the 12's for easy days and in the low 11's for my long runs.

Did you do anything in particular to cut out the intervals? I would love to cut out the intervals, but I'm not really sure how... just keep extending them maybe? My actual running paces seem to range between 9:30-10:30 on shorter runs/races, but of course I'm not running the whole time, so that drags down my overall pace.

 

[DopeyBadger]

Hi! I'm new to running, and new around these boards (although I have been following along for a while). I'm planning to do my first half marathon at the Star Wars Light Side weekend in January and I'm currently training for a 10k in August and trying to figure out a HM training plan for after that. One specific question I have is how important is cross-training? I got into running thinking I would follow the Galloway HM plan but I am not doing the run-walk method in my current training and I know many people think doing longer week-day runs (than the Galloway plan) is also a good idea. So, I am looking at other plans. However, most of the other plans I have seen include cross-training days (usually 2-3 per week) and I am wondering how important those are. I am currently running 3 days a week - I might be able to add a 4th day of activity (either running or cross-training) but probably not much more. So I am wondering if I can follow a HM training plan for the running days only and skip the cross-training? Or is that a bad idea? And if I can add a 4th day of activity to my schedule, would that time be better spent just doing more running, or adding in a cross-training activity? Thanks for any advice you are able to give! I have already learned so much from reading the discussions here

It depends on person to person but in general: If you want to become a better runner, run more. If you want to become more fit and reduce chances for injury, then run and mix-in cross training.

For me personally, I use a medicine ball workout twice per week that takes only about 15 min to complete - link to workout. The only one I've changed is #7. I made it a leg-up in the air but parallel with ball behind my head, then I lift the ball towards my toes and crunch my body (from both directions legs closer and chest closer to mid-section) with only my rear touching the ground. I think it has helped my core strength and aided me in staying injury free. For me, I've found that the 15 min workout is enough. I can do them while I watch tv.

So my advice would be to do both. Add a 4th day of running and add in 2 brief medicine ball workouts. But what works for one may not work for another.

 

[opusone]

Right now, I do run/walk intervals (90/30).

Your walk breaks at 90 seconds appear to be around a 13:00-15:00 min/mile (so let's split the middle and say 14:00 min/mile), which means you're covering about 0.11 miles per walking break. To have your overall pace be around a 12:36, it would require your run of 30 seconds to be around a 9:42 min/mile (covering 0.05 miles per 30 seconds).

Just wanted to make sure you two are talking the same intervals. @Miranda stated 90 seconds of running and 30 seconds of walking, and @DopeyBadger is talking 90 seconds of walking and 30 seconds of running. If 90/30 run/walk is the correct intervals, then the run interval would be:
12:12/mi if the walk interval is 14:00/mi
11:58/mi if the walk interval is 15:00/mi
11:46/mi if the walk interval is 16:00/mi
11:27/mi if the walk interval is 18:00/mi

 

[Miranda]

Just wanted to make sure you two are talking the same intervals. @Miranda stated 90 seconds of running and 30 seconds of walking, and @DopeyBadger is talking 90 seconds of walking and 30 seconds of running. If 90/30 run/walk is the correct intervals, then the run interval would be:
12:12/mi if the walk interval is 14:00/mi
11:58/mi if the walk interval is 15:00/mi
11:46/mi if the walk interval is 16:00/mi
11:27/mi if the walk interval is 18:00/mi

Oops! Yes, I run 90, walk 30. I did notice he said "your run of 30s" but I thought it was a typo and hadn't gone back yet to re-read the paces more closely (have it bookmarked for later ).

 

[DopeyBadger]

Just wanted to make sure you two are talking the same intervals. @Miranda stated 90 seconds of running and 30 seconds of walking, and @DopeyBadger is talking 90 seconds of walking and 30 seconds of running. If 90/30 run/walk is the correct intervals, then the run interval would be:
12:12/mi if the walk interval is 14:00/mi
11:58/mi if the walk interval is 15:00/mi
11:46/mi if the walk interval is 16:00/mi
11:27/mi if the walk interval is 18:00/mi

Whoops! Nice catch!

 

[Chaitali]

Did you do anything in particular to cut out the intervals? I would love to cut out the intervals, but I'm not really sure how... just keep extending them maybe? My actual running paces seem to range between 9:30-10:30 on shorter runs/races, but of course I'm not running the whole time, so that drags down my overall pace.

Not directed at me but I thought I'd jump in. One of my goals for the year was to try to eliminate the walk intervals for shorter races. I've been doing 2:30 running and :30 walking. I just did this by gradually increasing the time period before I started my walk intervals. I got up to doing 5k races and not taking a walk break until mile 2 or so. But I noticed that it's actually made me slower In order to be able to maintain the running for longer periods without taking a walk break, my run pace had to go down. I'm currently trying to decide whether I want to keep going with this goal just to say I did it or amend it since it doesn't seem to be making me faster.

 

[roxymama]

Did you do anything in particular to cut out the intervals? I would love to cut out the intervals, but I'm not really sure how... just keep extending them maybe? My actual running paces seem to range between 9:30-10:30 on shorter runs/races, but of course I'm not running the whole time, so that drags down my overall pace.

I was a newbie so my plan was not a formal plan.
I literally threw in sections during my run/walk where I was running for an extended period of time. So I would do jogging for a full minute. Then I'd tell myself I had to jog a block or two blocks no matter how long it took. Or from this drive-way to that tree. There would be a time I eventually would do a couple 5 minute runs in there. With my intervals in between. If I was feeling brave I'd do 8 minutes. And then two 8 minutes during same workout. I wasn't really focused on pace back then so much...it was more "how far did I get during X amount of time out there." So I was thinking "hey I got to 1.75 miles today, hey I got to 2 miles today." I started being more disciplined about sticking to Active.com's Couch 2 5k app that someone on WISH board reccommended and that had me work up to a week where I had to run for 20 minutes straight and I was SO SCARED! But I just dived in and did it and just told myself I was not going to walk at all those full 20 minutes. It was slow and it was hard. But after that it got better. I didn't go full running after that. I kept doing those little mix-in type workouts in between the scary C25k "run 25 min straight" days. After I got injured this spring I went back to my random intervals to test my foot and they very much helped me nurse myself back. Once I had no more foot pain I just dived back into a 1 mile straight run. And then a 2 mile. And then back to normal training.

I think what helped me to get to running without walking was I was focused on running a 5k straight. Not a 10k or a half, just a 5k. (and it took several tries to complete one without walking.) I think if you try to go from intervals to straight running with a longer distance in mind its going to be a lot harder to stick with it. But if you train for a shorter race it is super attainable. And if you like intervals better don't feel like you have to stick with straight running...I get beat my plenty of interval people who are faster intervalling that I am running.

 

[rteetz]

QOTD: I am curious about how everyone plans their running schedule. How far into the future does your training plan go? How often do you find yourself revising pace/distance/ect once you originally planned them?

My plans go until dopey right now. I don't know what if any events I'll be doing after that so I'm only going up to there at this point. @DopeyBadger designed a training plan for me that I will be using for dopey.

 

[DopeyBadger]

Did you do anything in particular to cut out the intervals? I would love to cut out the intervals, but I'm not really sure how... just keep extending them maybe? My actual running paces seem to range between 9:30-10:30 on shorter runs/races, but of course I'm not running the whole time, so that drags down my overall pace.

If you want to switch from the run/walk intervals to continuous running, then check out these paces. I would recommend that 80% of your training would be done at 14:04 min/mile or slower for a current fitness of a HM of 2:45. Do you feel as if you could sustain a run of 3 miles at 14:32 min/mile? Based on your walk intervals, I would say you are likely capable of this. It might just be a matter of slowing down.

Instead of a 9:30-10:30 run with walk intervals on a shorter distance race, what about a 11:32 min/mile without a walk interval for a 5K? Around the same overall pace, but one is run/walk and the other continuous. Do you think you could do this?

I've never done run/walk, so forgive my naivety on the subject, but what does it feel like to do run/walk? Could you describe what it feels like to run at 12:12 and then walk at 14:00? What is the feeling you have at the end of the running interval (tired legs, out of breath, etc.)? If you were to skip a walking interval, what does it feel like (tired legs, out of breath, etc.)? This will help me better relate and give advice.

 

[r2d2_runner]

It depends on person to person but in general: If you want to become a better runner, run more. If you want to become more fit and reduce chances for injury, then run and mix-in cross training.

For me personally, I use a medicine ball workout twice per week that takes only about 15 min to complete - link to workout. The only one I've changed is #7. I made it a leg-up in the air but parallel with ball behind my head, then I lift the ball towards my toes and crunch my body (from both directions legs closer and chest closer to mid-section) with only my rear touching the ground. I think it has helped my core strength and aided me in staying injury free. For me, I've found that the 15 min workout is enough. I can do them while I watch tv.

So my advice would be to do both. Add a 4th day of running and add in 2 brief medicine ball workouts. But what works for one may not work for another.

Thanks for everybody's advice! I like this idea of adding fairly brief core workouts a couple of times a week - seems fairly attainable. And in case my previous post made it sound like I was trying to "do just the minimum", I did want to clarify that I have become pretty excited and enthusiastic about running over the last few months ... but it has been an adjustment to fit it into my schedule (which previously did not involve much physical activity) so I am just trying to set realistic goals for myself with the hope that over time I can start to add more and more running into my schedule

And regarding how to eliminate walk intervals ... I used the Couch-to-5k program and slowly worked my way up to running a full 5k. It was tough at first but it worked (but also did not necessarily make me any faster!).

 

[LSUlakes]

Trust me when I say I spent the first 3 years of my training (Summer 2012-Summer 2015) legitimately tracking every training run as if it were a PR. I did the same thing, trying to beat the previous run from the last time I did it. So, I totally get where you're coming from. In those 3 years I improved my HM time by 6% (7 min improvement) and my M time by 10% (30 min improvement). Since then I've adopted this "train slow, race fast" methodology and have dropped in about one year (so a third of the previous timeframe) my HM time by 9.2% (10 min PR improvement) and M time by 20% (52 min PR improvement). I agree though it seems very counter-intuitive on the surface.

Learning the slower pace is something I find extremely difficult to do. Even more so during the warm up phase before speed work.

Hi! I'm new to running, and new around these boards (although I have been following along for a while). I'm planning to do my first half marathon at the Star Wars Light Side weekend in January and I'm currently training for a 10k in August and trying to figure out a HM training plan for after that. One specific question I have is how important is cross-training? I got into running thinking I would follow the Galloway HM plan but I am not doing the run-walk method in my current training and I know many people think doing longer week-day runs (than the Galloway plan) is also a good idea. So, I am looking at other plans. However, most of the other plans I have seen include cross-training days (usually 2-3 per week) and I am wondering how important those are. I am currently running 3 days a week - I might be able to add a 4th day of activity (either running or cross-training) but probably not much more. So I am wondering if I can follow a HM training plan for the running days only and skip the cross-training? Or is that a bad idea? And if I can add a 4th day of activity to my schedule, would that time be better spent just doing more running, or adding in a cross-training activity? Thanks for any advice you are able to give! I have already learned so much from reading the discussions here

Welcome to the thread! I would say cross training is very important as it works on different groups of muscles and at the same time getting your heart rate up, while also giving your running muscles a little time off. Yet, a 4th day of running would probably do more for you as far as the half goes.

 

[LSUlakes]

Looks like a lot of folks are using a training plan from @DopeyBadger , including myself for this summer. We keep this up we will need to start a gofundme page for the guy. Thanks for taking your valuable time for helping myself and others in this thread!

 

[JeffW]

• Slowing down seems so counter-intuitive! Like, logically I read training advice for other people and nod along when someone tells someone else to slow down, but now of course I am reading this and thinking, "14:32-15:31 is so slow, how will I ever get faster running that slow!" After a little over 1.5 years of being back to running, I still have that mentality of when I go out for a run, I try to beat my previous time for the route, so I guess that is how I ended up running my weekday shorter runs @ close to 5K pace all the time.

I'll de-lurk just to say, so counter-intuitive, but it works! When I started using Phil Maffetone's "180 formula" a few years ago, it was aggravating (to say the least) trying to keep my heart rate below 180-age (140 for me) for runs. It just felt so painfully slow. But over time, my pace picked up at that same heart rate and I was able to start more consistently setting PR's. There's a whole lot more that goes along with this beyond the 180 formula, but I stayed healthier and progressed further than my previous years of training.

I also think even 1 day a week of cross/circuit training is critical. I tried a lot of different workouts, but ultimately settled on the Iron Strength Workout for Runners. It isn't easy, but it really helped eliminate ITB and hip flexor problems I had fought chronically.

 

[DopeyBadger]

Looks like a lot of folks are using a training plan from @DopeyBadger , including myself for this summer. We keep this up we will need to start a gofundme page for the guy. Thanks for taking your valuable time for helping myself and others in this thread!

LOL! Truly the pleasure is all mine! It's a fun hobby to put together training plans and trying to fit one's needs and desires into a plan that I feel can best get them to their goals. I see it as a big puzzle with lots of different types of pieces trying to come together. It brings me a lot of happiness when I know that I can help someone in a small way reach their goals, because I know from personal experience how much it means to reach personal goals. Looks like I've got 11 people on active training plans right now. Always willing to help others (just send me a PM) because these days I've gotten the excel file streamlined to the point that it really only takes me about 2-3 hours of my time to finish a training plan from initial conversation to final product. That's really just a small part of my life that could mean something much more immense to someone else. Happy to help!

 

[michigandergirl]

ATTQOTD: I don't have any definitive plans after my October marathon. My goal this year is to run one race a month, so I've had the last 7 months mapped out. I've also made running 4 days a week instead of 3 a priority this year. The next 3 months are going to be a little tricky with my monthly races and marathon training. I do have to revise my plans often - it's just unavoidable being a busy, working mom of 3.

Tentative plans for next year: prep for Dopey 2018 and marathon #3 - I'm thinking I will need @DopeyBadger for that feat!

 

[ZellyB]

I got way behind on this thread over the holiday weekend, but jumping back in now.

QOTD: What type of meal have you had the night (or day before) a long run / race that you will never eat again based on how you felt during the run?

ATTQOTD: Like a few others, I've never really had a meal that bothered me much. Now, there was that night I had about 6 vodka shots before a 15K. It was a rough start, but actually turned into a great run. Turns out running is a great antidote to a hangover.

QOTD: I am curious about how everyone plans their running schedule. How far into the future does your training plan go? How often do you find yourself revising pace/distance/ect once you originally planned them?

ATTQOTD: The last couple of years, I've done a year long training plan. I usually have a few races scattered through the year and I figure the distances based on ramping up for certain races. I don't really plan much beyond just overall distance though. I revise it based on new races or, like this year, new injuries. Boo!