The risk of McCain's health plan

Health Insurance Coverage:

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Island_Lauri

DIS Veteran
Joined
May 30, 2000
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Obama not exaggerating when calling his opponent's plan 'radical'

WASHINGTON - This week's most important debate wasn't the meandering town hall duel between Barack Obama and John McCain. That encounter was understandably scored by polls and most pundits as a win for Obama, who seemed steadier than an over-caffeinated McCain. But lackluster questions and a constrictive format meant it did little to clarify the decision facing voters.

Far more instructive was the argument Obama instigated with McCain last week over health care. In several speeches, Obama accurately framed the central contrast between the nominees' approaches. The bedrock goal of Obama's plan is to reinforce the sharing of risk and cost between healthy and sick, young and old. By contrast, McCain, hoping to expand choice, would erode risk-sharing and accept sharper distinctions between the healthy and sick in both the availability and cost of coverage. One plan prizes solidarity; the other, autonomy.

Most Americans now receive their health insurance at work. That system promotes risk-sharing because employers don't vary the premiums based on a worker's age or health: The old and sick are subsidized by the young and healthy, who are then subsidized as they age.

McCain would upend that system. Today employers can deduct as a business expense the contributions they make to a worker's health insurance premiums. Workers, though, are not taxed on the value of their employer's contribution. That "exclusion" provides a powerful tax incentive for work-based coverage. McCain would end the exclusion so that workers pay taxes on their employer's premium contribution. Instead, he would provide a tax credit ($2,500 for individuals and $5,000 for families) that workers could apply to the cost of obtaining health insurance. In an ad this week, the Obama campaign described that trade as "the largest middle-class tax increase in history."

That's flat wrong. For all but the highest earners with the most-expensive insurance plans, the credit would more than offset the additional taxes workers would face from ending the exclusion, the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center calculates. The real problem with McCain's idea is that, without the economic incentive provided by the exclusion, more employers might stop offering coverage. And even employers who want to continue could find it difficult because younger workers would be likely to use their credit to buy stripped-down, cheaper coverage on their own. That would leave employers covering only older and sicker workers, which could quickly swell premiums to unaffordable levels. That concern prompted the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and the Business Roundtable to criticize McCain's plan in an eye-opening New York Times article on Tuesday.

McCain's camp insists that his proposal would not undermine employer-based coverage. But few experts agree. Several studies have projected that his plan would move about 20 million people from employer-based coverage to the individual insurance market. And in that market, older or sicker consumers face much higher costs than the healthy -- if they can buy coverage at all.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27121059/
 
Do you not see the internal contradiction of your comments?
 
Obama's plan is pie in the sky. He's promising everything, to everyone, and says it won't cost anything.

I don't know if McCain's plan will work either, but their are some obvious problems with the current employer-based system - portability being the most severe.

And even employers who want to continue could find it difficult because younger workers would be likely to use their credit to buy stripped-down, cheaper coverage on their own.

This is the elephant in the room for any plan that attempts to cover everyone. It simply can't be done without mandates.

My sons are 23 and 24, single, and neither has ever had anything more serious, health wise, than strep throat. The only health insurance they need is to protect themselves from a serious, unexpected illness, or accident. That coverage, given their age and health history, is extremely inexpensive.

The bedrock goal of Obama's plan is to reinforce the sharing of risk and cost between healthy and sick, young and old.

In other words, they need people like my sons to pay for much more insurance than they actually need, to help subsidize the cost for those who are less healthy.

Many argue that this is just the right thing to do. I'm not going to argue the merits of that on this thread - I'll just say that I think it needs to be plainly called what it is -
a tax on some for the benefit of others. The young, healthy people who this is going to affect the most need to be aware of the facts.
 

I have an amazing Health Plan provided through my company I dont want or need anything to change. To hell with everyone else, I'm good LOL j/k Seriosuly I think McCain's Healthplan is going to be disasterous to say the least if ever give the opportunity to be put into place.
 
Obama's plan is pie in the sky. He's promising everything, to everyone, and says it won't cost anything.

In all seriousness, has he actually said that it won't cost anything? I haven't heard WHAT it will or won't cost but I assumed that there will be a pricetag for what he wants to do. To assume that there is no cost for his plan is foolish. If he's actually said that he's going to reform health care and it's not going to cost America a dime would not be a good move on his part.
 
/
In all seriousness, has he actually said that it won't cost anything? I haven't heard WHAT it will or won't cost but I assumed that there will be a pricetag for what he wants to do. To assume that there is no cost for his plan is foolish. If he's actually said that he's going to reform health care and it's not going to cost America a dime would not be a good move on his part.

I just checked his website. It looks like I'm paying for it, along with the increases in my sons' premiums. Our whole family gets screwed. :) :)

Barack Obama will pay for his $50 - $65 billion health care reform effort by rolling back the Bush tax cuts for Americans earning more than $250,000 per year and retaining the estate tax at its 2009 level.
 
I just checked his website. It looks like I'm paying for it, along with the increases in my sons' premiums. Our whole family gets screwed. :) :)


Thanks for providing the quote. I figured there must be some way he was planning on funding it.
 
This is at the top of my list of what I disagree with McCain on. Heck, I could use $2,500 on myself real fast and be left having to pay for anything past that. At what age of the kids does the $5,000 get cut? 18? 21? Older if they're in college? (Speaking for single parents.) And being there's a chronic illness, I've already been informed by BC/BS that I'm "uninsurable" if I were looking for coverage on my own. :mad: :mad:
 
Why don't we just take the employer system and apply it to the government? The government will be the "employer" and offer "group" coverage to any American who wants it. Nobody is forced to sign up with the government insurance, unless they are not covered by an employer or private plan. And young can people can opt into a high deductible plan with health savings account so that they don't get upset. Participants will pay premiums just like any regular insurance program. If they meet certain poverty guidelines they can get free or reduced premiums, but *MUST* enroll in a wellness program and make healthy lifestyle choices or face a penalty like losing their tax refund (there goes the big EITC check.)

However:
NO free/reduced coverage to smokers.
NO free/reduced coverage to people who are able but unwilling to exericse.

No idea how you enforce the last two, but I dream big.
 
This is at the top of my list of what I disagree with McCain on. Heck, I could use $2,500 on myself real fast and be left having to pay for anything past that. At what age of the kids does the $5,000 get cut? (Speaking for single parents.) And being there's a cronic illness, I've already been informed by BC/BS that I'm "uninsurable" if I were looking for coverage on my own. :mad: :mad:

Most health care plans will cover your dependents up until age 22-23 if they are a full-time student. So, if your son is going to college, you would get the $5,000 for that time period. As soon as he is not a student, you are down to $2500 and then your son would get his own $2500.

As for your $2500 - $5000, you do realize that you would not receive that directly to spend on medical expenses? It would have to be paid directly to your insurance company as a payment for premiums.

The McCain plan hasn't even begun to address the "uninsurables." I, too, would be one if I had to leave my employer.
 
Why don't we just take the employer system and apply it to the government? The government will be the "employer" and offer "group" coverage to any American who wants it. Nobody is forced to sign up with the government insurance, unless they are not covered by an employer or private plan. And young can people can opt into a high deductible plan with health savings account so that they don't get upset. Participants will pay premiums just like any regular insurance program. If they meet certain poverty guidelines they can get free or reduced premiums, but *MUST* enroll in a wellness program and make healthy lifestyle choices or face a penalty like losing their tax refund (there goes the big EITC check.)

However:
NO free/reduced coverage to smokers.
NO free/reduced coverage to people who are able but unwilling to exericse.


Besides your 'however' part, I think this is the plan that Hillary Clinton was proposing: access to the Federal Government plans by anyone who wants in, ability to go private, or employer provided BUT everyone must be insured.
 
My biggest personal concern is that the McCain plan does nothing for those of us who cannot buy their own insurance on the open market because of pre-existing conditions. Both my husband and myself are uninsurable unless we go through a group plan (and always have coverage so that we meet HIPAA guidelines).

We would like to start our own small business and could pay the premiums ourselves; however, we can't because there is no way for us to even purchase health insurance. It does not help small business to simply give tax credits. They have similarly difficult problems procuring plans with a small "group."

I continue to promote the idea that accessible health care is important to economic growth in the US in the post-tech bubble economy.
 
In all seriousness, has he actually said that it won't cost anything? I haven't heard WHAT it will or won't cost but I assumed that there will be a pricetag for what he wants to do. To assume that there is no cost for his plan is foolish. If he's actually said that he's going to reform health care and it's not going to cost America a dime would not be a good move on his part.
I heard that Obama's will cost 1.6Trillion and McCains will cost 1.3Trilliion. Not sure how they came up with that, but the number for Obama's sounds about right.

McCains health care plan I don't think has any chance of passing. Even if there was to be a complete sweep of Republicans in and Democrats out, I don't think it would pass. I think its a very expensive band aid for a deep wound.
 
My biggest personal concern is that the McCain plan does nothing for those of us who cannot buy their own insurance on the open market because of pre-existing conditions. Both my husband and myself are uninsurable unless we go through a group plan (and always have coverage so that we meet HIPAA guidelines).

We would like to start our own small business and could pay the premiums ourselves; however, we can't because there is no way for us to even purchase health insurance. It does not help small business to simply give tax credits. They have similarly difficult problems procuring plans with a small "group."

I continue to promote the idea that accessible health care is important to economic growth in the US in the post-tech bubble economy.

You are a perfect example. The whole system needs some type of reform. There are people who are willing to pay but are denied. Heck, even most states provide some type of auto insurance for high-risk drivers. It's mandated. It's expensive as hell, but they can get it.
 
I have health insurance thru DH employer, I am self employed. All I know is when I got cancer and had surgeries and treatment they paid EVERYTHING, not one deductible, not one co-pay not one penny out of my own pocket, well over 300,000.00 in medical bills. Top notch hospitals/doctors of our choice (Memorial Sloan Kettering, NYC)
It was a GOD SEND that we had coverage like that. We could have easily been wiped out financially, otherwise.
Even now, follow ups are all covered as indicated above. We are BLESSED and KNOW it!
Will Gov't health insurance be better for those that need it?? I HIGHLY doubt it. Have you ever investigated the Canadian Health System?? Waiting Months to see a Specialist, many times it is TOO late to fight a disease by then. Or how many come HERE to get treatment instead. How many times have you heard of people coming to USA/NYC/Cal to get medical treatment? It is a HORROR!
Do I think McCains plan will work, likely no.
DO I even BELIEVE one word of Obama, NO!
I don't want the Gov't in ANY more of my business than they already are, thank you!
It is SCARY indeed! :scared1:
 
Will Gov't health insurance be better for those that need it?? I HIGHLY doubt it.

So government insurance wouldn't be better than no insurance?


Have you ever investigated the Canadian Health System?? Waiting Months to see a Specialist, many times it is TOO late to fight a disease by then
.

I think that can depend highly on the area you live in. I have many thyroid cancer "friends" that get great treatment in Canada and have been able to get into their doctors in the same amount of time as I do here. And they get the same treatments. Granted, this was not the case 15 years ago when I first faced my cancer. My wait time to see a specialist was 2 weeks while those in Canada waited 6 weeks. Now, my wait time for the specialist is 4 months. Yes, you heard correctly--4 months. My current specialist just retired and I was referred to another specialist (by my current one). I called on October 10th to set up my appointment. The first available was February 24th!!:scared1: This is typical of getting in to see the "good" doctors in this area (large Metro area). My Canadian friends still have their 6 week wait.

Or how many come HERE to get treatment instead. How many times have you heard of people coming to USA/NYC/Cal to get medical treatment? It is a HORROR!
Yes, I do know that some people come here for treatment but more often then not it seems to be from underdeveloped countries and not from places like Canada, the UK, France, etc., although it's not unheard of. I also know of some people going outside the US because they can't get affordable coverage here.

Do I think McCains plan will work, likely no.
DO I even BELIEVE one word of Obama, NO!

Let's face it--with either plan there is going to be a certain part of the population that is going to be unhappy. Who's plan will create the most uninsured people? I'm lucky too. I have good coverage either through my job or my husbands. But I am able to recognize the many, many people don't have it so well and I am just one job away from being in that same, exact predicament and it scares me.

I truly don't believe that Obama's plan is meant to be "universal" or "nationalized" health care. I think the first step is just making sure that everyone has access to insurance. Not that the government is paying for it for everyone or that the government is "running" it, but the government is going to have to step in (much like with the bailout) and set up some rules and stop the greed that's going on there and try to protect people who can't even access the care.
 





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