The risk of McCain's health plan

Health Insurance Coverage:

  • My coverage is provided through my company's plan

  • I have purchased on my own health insurance

  • I don't have health insurance

  • I work for the Government/Government Agency and have health coverage through FEHB


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This is so true. I am constantly amazed at the amount of people who think that if Obama is elected we will be in the midst of universal health care on the scale of Canada or the UK. While that might be his hope to have it evolve to that one day, there is no way that would ever pass. If people would just read the plan and not buy into the spin, I think they'd feel a lot better about that aspect.

I am amazed at people that don't realize there isn't much difference between a nationalized health care and government run health care. The dems are good at doing things in steps. Accessibility to good health care will be a joke under Obama. I will admit, McCain's health care plan is slightly more expensive but, is far superior to Obama's. Under Obama health care will be rationed.

I am not spinning. I know a thing or two about nationalized health care. Websites can give you all the pretty, shiny ideals that gloss over the true facts.

I think I'll have sit down and start a thread on this issue. After dealing with TennCare for over 14 years....you don't want Obama's plan. It's not what it's cracked up to be.
 
You all are debating pipe dreams from both candidates. As you all know, nothing gets enacted unless congress says so. and as you also know, if congress has a say in anything...well, carry on...
 
You all are debating pipe dreams from both candidates. As you all know, nothing gets enacted unless congress says so. and as you also know, if congress has a say in anything...well, carry on...

There's the scary part....Obama will have a rubber stamp. He'll own the house and senate.
 
I think I'll have sit down and start a thread on this issue. After dealing with TennCare for over 14 years....you don't want Obama's plan. It's not what it's cracked up to be.

Can you please explain to me exactly how the Obama plan is like TennCare? My understanding of TennCare is that it was a changeover from Medicare to a state-run managed healthcare system. Managed healthcare has many problems and TennCare also suffered from mismanagement as it was a contracted plan (private management) run by the government. If I am incorrect, please correct me as I am not that well-versed on TennCare.

The government does not run the health insurance in Obama's plan. They don't pay claims, set policy limits, etc. They only set rules for who must be allowed to purchase from the exsiting government insurers and a new group of healthplans. They are still health plans run by Blue Cross, United Healthcare, etc.

I know a lot about universal and nationalized healthcare, too. The Obama plan is not nationalized healthcare where the goverment controls payment. There is more government rulemaking, though.

As I've said before, I don't expect Obama's plan to pass Congress as-is; however, I like the focus on access for those currently uninsurable and those being dropped from their healthcare for having cancer.
 

How do you know you would lose your plan?

Exactly. Medical coverage was added as an incentive to get workers. If employers were not paying for it, they would be able to actually pay you more. Granted, they can get it for less at a group rate, but you would also get the $5,000 credit- plus the extra money in your paycheck.

Employer paid benefits are not really "free." They are factored into the cost of employing you. So many employers would continue to offer it as a perk to get workers.

Granted, some employers would not try to make up the difference, but just as many would prefer to do so rather than hiring someone new and going through the expense of training, etc.
 
Who would be the insurer?

Whoever gives the government the best deal. AETNA, Blue Cross, etc. They can bid/compete for this "contract," knowing they would earn billions and billions. And competition is supposed to lower costs, so we all win!
 
This is close enough to what my health coverage through my company already does. And they just started it in 2008. It STINKS!!! If you have two "health risks," you pay a higher premium. That can be any combination of two...blood pressure, chronic illness, smoke, high cholesterol, etc. If you manage to improve any of them, you will get a portion of what you paid on what appears to be a credit card. When you use the card, it can only be used for health related items...medicines, alcohol wipes, etc. :mad: :mad: It's ridiculous. And then they hound us being that there are chronic illnesses. They let me know what doctors I should be seeing in the next six months. WTH?! :mad: :mad:

Wow! Our wellness plan is totally different. It's optional and if you earn 2500 points each quarter you get $125 put into your Health Savings Account. There are no penalities, but you also get a $30 discount on your premiums per pay period if you don't smoke. They VERY MUCH stress this program beause healthy employees costs so much less to insure. I love it because there are nice benefits in addition to better health!

I just want to make sure that if anyone receives insurance through the government (which will be subsidized, even if they pay premiums) they are doing everything they can to improve their health and well being.
 
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Obama wants to take the money from the rich and give it to the poor...I say go GET A JOB if you want money!!!

If you want Health Insurance, go GET A JOB with health insurance.

It's very easy to understand....
 
Obama wants to take the money from the rich and give it to the poor...I say go GET A JOB if you want money!!!

If you want Health Insurance, go GET A JOB with health insurance.

It's very easy to understand....



I have a job. With insurance. McCain wants to tax it and then give $5000 directly to the insurance companies. He also wants to cut a trillion plus from Medicare. My inlaws are not very happy about that.

This is a very easy to read and understand side-by-side comparison of Obama's and McCain's health care plans.

http://www.health08.org/sidebyside_results.cfm?c=5&c=16

Also, while both plans will cost over 100 billion each year, the plans will have very different outcomes.

Barack Obama and John McCain are both proposing more than $100 billion a year in spending for health care, but the candidates' plans have vastly different goals, and vastly different outcomes. New studies from the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center and the policy journal Health Affairs suggest that Obama's proposal would eventually cover more than 34 million of the roughly 47 million Americans currently without insurance, while McCain's would cover at best 5 million uninsured.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/09/16/new_studies_report_wide_dispar.html

Yet, as posted in another thread today, McCain has plans to cut 1.3 trillion dollars from Medicare and Medicaid, cuts that apparently have been part of his health care reform plans all along.

McCain's plan is not all that different from the school voucher plan. It gives money to people that don't need it and screws everybody else.
 
I have a job. With insurance. McCain wants to tax it and then give $5000 directly to the insurance companies. He also wants to cut a trillion plus from Medicare. My inlaws are not very happy about that.

You're misinformed. For those that have insurance through their employers, the benefits would be taxed, but the tax credit would more than cover the additional tax. The only time the credit would go directly to the insurance companies would be for those that don't have employer sponsored insurance. The credit would pay the premiums, with anything left over going to the taxpayer.


It gives money to people that don't need it and screws everybody else.

Why do you get to decide who needs money and who doesn't?
 
You're misinformed. For those that have insurance through their employers, the benefits would be taxed, but the tax credit would more than cover the additional tax. The only time the credit would go directly to the insurance companies would be for those that don't have employer sponsored insurance. The credit would pay the premiums, with anything left over going to the taxpayer.
Why do you get to decide who needs money and who doesn't?

Actually, it is you that is misinformed. My current policy that my employer (and most) provide is worth more than twice what McCain's $5000 token will provide. McCain says he wants to "eliminate the bias" towards employer-sponsored health benefits, by cutting tax advantages employers receive for offering coverage. It's not hard to guess where this will lead -- a massive wave of employers dropping their health coverage and pushing their employees into the private market to fend for themselves. Good luck with that. If McCain get's elected I recommend not getting sick. He has recommended the same thing essentially. There is a reason why people on both sides of the aisle are freaking out over this health plan. It is radical and irresponsible.

Who am I to decide who needs money and who doesn't? Well, it isn't hard. If you have cancer and can't afford a doctor, you need money. If you have cancer and can afford a doctor, and 14 cars and 7 houses and a plane you don't.
 
Obama wants to take the money from the rich and give it to the poor...I say go GET A JOB if you want money!!!

If you want Health Insurance, go GET A JOB with health insurance.

It's very easy to understand....

I am a stay-at-home mom/part-time instructor without insurance. If my husband died, I would likely get a different job (although I wouldn't necesarily need to). In between, what would I do for healthcare? I am technically uninsurable and can't buy it myself. If I don't have continuous coverage, I can even be denied by a new employer's group health plan. All I want is a plan where I can get insurance, even if I have to pay for it.

In addition, people forget the component that having accessible healthcare will improve the economy. Small business desperately wants accessible healthcare so they can be competitive. You can't tell a small business to just "get a job with health insurance."
 
McCain's main proposal focuses on tax credits. He believes the present system is unfair. That system works something like this: The worker at the large corporation gets, on average, insurance that costs about $12,000, out of which about $3,000 comes from his own paycheck. That $9,000 difference is a freebie -- it doesn't count as income for tax purposes. Meanwhile, the small-business person buying his or her own policy on the individual market has to pay $12,000 out of personal funds, with no tax advantage.

McCain's proposal would tax the $9,000 as income if a person continued to get insurance through the employer. For those who didn't, he offers a tax credit of $2,500 for individuals, $5,000 for a family, which they could use to buy insurance directly.

A study by the trade journal Health Affairs concluded that McCain's plan would ''greatly reduce the number of people who obtain health insurance through their employers'' -- perhaps a drop of 10 million to 28 million of the more than 150 million who now have employer coverage.

Many, including some of the 45.7 million people now uninsured, would move to the individual market, resulting in a net reduction in the uninsured of about one million, according to Health Affairs.

But since the average employer-based policy now costs $12,680 for a family, according to a Kaiser study, people in the individual market are likely to opt for less coverage with the $5,000 they have to spend -- meaning higher deductibles and co-payments.

What's more, says Health Affairs, administrative costs on individual policies are considerably higher, meaning that purchasers of individual policies get less for their money. McCain's health advisors believe that savvy consumers should be able to force the insurers to offer better benefits.

The Brookings Institution, considered by some to be a liberal think tank, estimates that the McCain tax shifting would cost about $130 billion a year, but McCain's campaign says changes might not increase taxes because the tax credits would be offset by companies losing their health-insurance deduction. The McCain plan would also save money by major cuts in Medicare and Medicaid, an aide told The Wall Street Journal in an article published Monday.

Regina Herzlinger, a Harvard business professor, insists that reforming the tax code is ''essential for the survival of the U.S. economy,'' because each General Motors car now includes costs of $1,500 in employee health benefits -- while foreign manufacturers may spend $100 a car on those.

Even so, the tax credits are questioned by the Business Roundtable, a group representing the largest companies in the country, including Ryder and FPL Group. Ivan G. Seidenberg, chief executive of Verizon and the Roundtable's leader for healthcare, calls McCain's plan ''a theoretical answer -- not rooted in a practical base'' because it undermines the employer-based coverage that many Americans like.

Critics argue that under the McCain plan, seriously ill people forced to get their own insurance will be rejected because of preexisting medical conditions.

McCain's answer is to advocate the expansion of state-run high-risk pools, the last refuge for the uninsurable. Critics respond that such pools are notoriously short on money and can't help all who need them. Florida's pool, for example, was closed to new applicants in 1991 for lack of money and now serves a mere 300 people.

Obama emphasizes that anyone who likes his or her present health plan would be able to keep it. He concentrates on helping those struggling to get or keep insurance.

Medicaid for the poor and a state-federal children's insurance program would be expanded. A new National Health Plan, similar to what's available to members of Congress, would be guaranteed to everyone who wanted it. No one with preexisting conditions could be excluded or forced to pay higher premiums -- a requirement that experts say could cost a lot.

Large employers that didn't offer insurance would have to pay into the fund. Those that did provide coverage would be reimbursed for some costs of employees with catastrophic illnesses.

The plan would allow coverage for many of the uninsured, but critics are deeply concerned about the costs. The Obama campaign estimates that the plan would cost $50 billion to $65 billion a year. That's less than the cost of the AIG bailout and about half of the annual war costs in Iraq.

Health Affairs and others worry that the real expense could be much more -- perhaps two or three times the Obama estimates. The magazine concludes that ``unless the factors underlying cost growth are addressed, the country will be left with more unsustainable spending.''

Irwin Redlener, a Columbia University physician and advisor to Obama, says the Democrat's plan would curtail costs by encouraging such measures as preventive medicine, which can nip illnesses early, before they become expensive emergency-room situations. ``We have a compelling case for affordable healthcare for everyone.''

Even so, Steven Ullmann, director of health-sector management and policy programs at the University of Miami, says funding will be hard to come by. ``When the economy is rolling in money, then you can think about expanded benefits and reform.''

There is still plenty that could be done -- and done quickly -- to improve healthcare and reduce costs, experts say. ''We need to work in steps,'' says Bill Novelli, head of AARP, the organization that represents people 50 and older. ``SCHIP is going to come first. It has to. . . . It's a cliché but true. The children are our future.''

SCHIP, the state-federal program for covering children, is set to expire early next year. Democrats and many Republicans believe the program must be continued, although President Bush vetoed that proposal earlier this year. Both McCain and Obama support SCHIP, although the Democrat wants the program expanded, while the Republican believes it must be limited so that it doesn't add to ``already out-of-control national spending.''

Thompson and many others believe that 2009 will finally see a bill for healthcare information technology, mandating a uniform platform for electronic records, which experts say could save perhaps $150 billion a year by eliminating duplicate tests and reducing medical errors.

Both Obama and McCain support information technology reform. ''It just seems nuts that government is spending half a trillion a year on healthcare and not demanding IT,'' says Andy Stern, president of the Service Employees International Union, which represents two million workers in healthcare, government and property services.

Both candidates agree that billions can be saved by wellness-prevention programs and better management of chronic diseases, which are estimated to account for up to 75 percent of healthcare costs.

Those items, plus IT implementation, formed a mantra repeated by many experts, conservative and liberal, who met at a healthcare conference last month in Orlando. All agree that no reform can work without curtailing costs.

Many believe that a third or more of all healthcare spending in the United States is wasted, noting that Europeans spend half as much per capita as we do and live slightly longer.

http://www.miamiherald.com/living/health/story/721466.html
 














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