The Official LOST Season Five *No Spoilers* Thread

[karajeboo]

I love reading this thread!!

Here are my thoughts...

Time Travel Deal:
Richard did not recognize Sawyer at all last night, which makes sense-this is the first time they are seeing each other. However, in 2004 when Flight 815 crashes, all The Others know the names of the Losties - since Richard met Sawyer back in 1974, he would know his name still in 2004, and he could tell his people.

Sawyer and group, upon meeting Richard in 2004 would recognize him I would think, since they met him back in 1974. They wouldn't know any of the other Others, except maybe Ben if he arrives.

I don't remember any of them recognizing him though. And since he hasn't aged a bit in any episode or time period, wouldn't they remember him?

Remember Ben being in the hatch in 2004? The Losties didn't know who he was (at least from what I can remember). I wonder if Sawyer's group in 1974/77 are going to see/meet young Ben and then years later he's in their hatch...they still might not recognize him since it's been 20+ years. But they would recognize his name when they heard it. When did they first get Ben's real name?

Amy & Horace's Baby:
Hmmm...my first guess would be Jacob....

And thanks for the reminder on who Horace is everyone! I wonder if Oliva was ever his actual wife...

Bag Lady:
I was all psyched up for the scene and then let out a "Oh." when I saw her. Instantly DH says, "She's in another show....24!" (the one other show we are obsessed with!)

Charloette:
I think that really is her as a young girl, 3/4/5 years old. I think the birth date Ben had was wrong. Her mother took her away from island when she was young and they moved to England. Perhaps her mother also changed her birth date (not legally obviously), to hide her...

Did anyone catch what the people walking with Charloette looked like? Could you see faces at all? Remember we were wondering if she was possibly the Dharma Film Guy's daughter?

The Others:
I don't think they are nasty yet. They pulled a truce with Dharma, so that at least tells you they are reasonable. I think something crazy happens that makes them get nasty. Perhaps Ben's leadership?

So who ARE the others at this point (1974)? How did THEY get to the island? For them to have a truce with DI, there must be something fishy about them.....

Richard:
I think he's Jacob too.

Babies being born on the island:
My DH said he thinks right now, 1977, babies can be born on the island, but something tweaks out the island that causes the babies not to be born - possibly the chemical used in The Purge, or a disruption of some sort on the island. The difference with this baby and Danielle's is that Amy must have gotten pregnant on the island since we see her in 1974 not pregnant. Danielle arrived pregnant, same with Claire.

I don't think they can prevent him, "what's done is done" sort of thing.

I agree that every time we've "seen" Jacob, he has appeared older, so I don't think that is Horace and Amy's baby. I'm still thinking it's Christian....

And the sub that leaves the island every two weeks - where does it go?

 

[LuvBaloo]

I love reading this thread!!

Here are my thoughts...

Time Travel Deal:
Richard did not recognize Sawyer at all last night, which makes sense-this is the first time they are seeing each other. However, in 2004 when Flight 815 crashes, all The Others know the names of the Losties - since Richard met Sawyer back in 1974, he would know his name still in 2004, and he could tell his people.

Sawyer and group, upon meeting Richard in 2004 would recognize him I would think, since they met him back in 1974. They wouldn't know any of the other Others, except maybe Ben if he arrives.

But in 2004, Sawyer and group hadn't yet been in 1974, so they haven't met him yet and would have no memory of him.

Remember Ben being in the hatch in 2004? The Losties didn't know who he was (at least from what I can remember). I wonder if Sawyer's group in 1974/77 are going to see/meet young Ben and then years later he's in their hatch...they still might not recognize him since it's been 20+ years. But they would recognize his name when they heard it. When did they first get Ben's real name?

Same thing again, in 2004 they hadn't yet been in 1974, so they wouldn't know him. Now assuming Ben has seen them in 1970's, he would have been going forward on normal time so if he as a boy, paid attention he could recognize Sawyer and group in 2004.

Amy & Horace's Baby:
Hmmm...my first guess would be Jacob....

And thanks for the reminder on who Horace is everyone! I wonder if Oliva was ever his actual wife...

Bag Lady:
I was all psyched up for the scene and then let out a "Oh." when I saw her. Instantly DH says, "She's in another show....24!" (the one other show we are obsessed with!)

Charloette:
I think that really is her as a young girl, 3/4/5 years old. I think the birth date Ben had was wrong. Her mother took her away from island when she was young and they moved to England. Perhaps her mother also changed her birth date (not legally obviously), to hide her...

Did anyone catch what the people walking with Charloette looked like? Could you see faces at all? Remember we were wondering if she was possibly the Dharma Film Guy's daughter?

The Others:
I don't think they are nasty yet. They pulled a truce with Dharma, so that at least tells you they are reasonable. I think something crazy happens that makes them get nasty. Perhaps Ben's leadership?

I think they are a bit nasty, they killed Paul, and had a bag over Amy's head. Unless Paul & Amy had broken the truce and gone into Others territory for their picnic

Richard:
I think he's Jacob too.

Babies being born on the island:
My DH said he thinks right now, 1977, babies can be born on the island, but something tweaks out the island that causes the babies not to be born - possibly the chemical used in The Purge, or a disruption of some sort on the island. The difference with this baby and Danielle's is that Amy must have gotten pregnant on the island since we see her in 1974 not pregnant. Danielle arrived pregnant, same with Claire.



I don't think they can prevent him, "what's done is done" sort of thing.

I agree, they can't change what has already happened.

 

[BabyPiglet]

I don't think Sawyer and group would've recognized Ben or Richard or anyone else back when they first met them in 2004. Richard & Ben would remember, but not Sawyer and group.

Sawyer hadn't physically met them yet. Ben & Richard met them when they were younger. If that makes any sense.

Otherwise, it would just be a big loop.

I'm thinking Horace & Amy's baby is Ethan. I'd love to say it was Jacob, but that doesn't make much sense to me.

 

[Camster0307]

Are you talking about Reiko Aylesworth? She's hardly a nobody as any fan of 24 knows.

Well that explains it - never have watched 24.

Anyway, meant she was a big fat nobody in reference to characters we already know on Lost.

 

[harleyquinn]

Speaking of the Purge, is that where this show is going now? Is this whole season a "do over"? The Losties are going to stop Ben and prevent him from killing the Dharma employees?

No way, they can't change things. Whatever happens, happens. It a Lost rule of time travel.

And I have no idea where things are going, but I think the two groups will be back together much quicker than 30 years passing.

And it finially just hit me as to why the people in the present are on the other island!! If we assume that the group in the 70s stays there, then they might be running around on the other island in the present only 30 years older. So if the present group landing on the normal island and didn't see the past group 30 years older, we'd know right away what things happened to the past group.

 

[Camster0307]

I think she was referring to "a big fat nobody" as in the characters, since we hadn't seen her before.

As Sawyer said - "thanks for watching my back!"

 

[Heidict]

Not all the spoilers that come up are true. I had read that it was Nikki under the sack and that was waaaaay off.

That is another one of the reasons why I stayed aways from them, but mainly because it took away the fun and suspense of watching every week. It lost something when I knew what was coming.

In regards to the baby. It totally fits. Age, sex, everything............We will see though. It's probably wrong!!

 

[Sk8Leigh]

No way, they can't change things. Whatever happens, happens. It a Lost rule of time travel.

And I have no idea where things are going, but I think the two groups will be back together much quicker than 30 years passing.

I'm sure they will. But if they didn't, then the Losties from the seventies would find the present day Losties (including themselves) when they crash, althought the ones from the seventies would be 30 years older!

Are you talking about Reiko Aylesworth? She's hardly a nobody as any fan of 24 knows.

And she was on One Life to Live. Duh! (Actually, I didn't recognize her from that, it was like 15 years ago, but I remembered her name.)

 

[Kycha]

Why do you think Olivia was Horace's wife? It could have been his sister or friend? I don't remember anything saying they were married

Is Olivia ever confirmed to be Horace's wife though? It's assumed since she was in the car with him when Ben was born, but maybe he was recruiting her or something like Richard did with Juliet. Their being together could have been pure happenstance, especially considering how Horace talked with Sawyer about getting over someone in only 3 years. She's listed as "Olivia the teacher" on imdb.com, not Olivia Goodspeed. Horace is listed as Horace Goodspeed, not Horace the mathematician.

As a previous poster stated, they have Olivia listed as Horace's wife on Lostpedia. Believe me, I question it myself. I don't recall them mentioning their relationship in the first episode they were introduced. But thought maybe it was brought up in another episode. Maybe the purge episode. I'm gonna have to go rewatch my dvds.

 

[karajeboo]

I don't think Sawyer and group would've recognized Ben or Richard or anyone else back when they first met them in 2004. Richard & Ben would remember, but not Sawyer and group.

Sawyer hadn't physically met them yet. Ben & Richard met them when they were younger. If that makes any sense.

Otherwise, it would just be a big loop.

I'm thinking Horace & Amy's baby is Ethan. I'd love to say it was Jacob, but that doesn't make much sense to me.

Actually, yes, that makes perfect sense. In a warped Lost kinda way!

As Sawyer said - "thanks for watching my back!"

I'm here for ya!

 

[Magic Mom]

Can someone please fill me in on the last 5 minutes of last nights episode? I was right in the middle of the last seconds in an Ebay auction, and I missed the ending (won the bid though ). Sawyer and Julliette were in bed and he got a call...then......?

 

[Disney1fan2002]

Can someone please fill me in on the last 5 minutes of last nights episode? I was right in the middle of the last seconds in an Ebay auction, and I missed the ending (won the bid though ). Sawyer and Julliette were in bed and he got a call...then......?

The phone call was Jin...telling him he found Jack, Hurley and Kate. Jin told him to NOT bringthem back, but to meet him someplace. He jumped out of bed and wouldn't tell Juliette who was on the phone or where he was going, he just said he had to go.

He drove a jeep to a field, and the Dharma van was coming in from the other way. He stpped out, and watched as Jack, Hurley and Kate stepped out of the van. Kate smiled at him, Sawyer ripped off his glasses.

The the screen goes black and we get LOST

 

[Disney1fan2002]

No way, they can't change things. Whatever happens, happens. It a Lost rule of time travel

Are you sure? Daniel told Sawyer he can't help the woman under the sack, because whatever happened, happens, but Sawyer DID go to save her, and he did save her. Also, Sawyer killed the two men. That wouldn't have happened the first time around, so Sawyer did change things.

 

[harleyquinn]

Are you sure? Daniel told Sawyer he can't help the woman under the sack, because whatever happened, happens, but Sawyer DID go to save her, and he did save her. Also, Sawyer killed the two men. That wouldn't have happened the first time around, so Sawyer did change things.

No that's not what he said at all. He said, "whatever happened, happened." Meaning if Sawyer helped her in the past, then he's going to do it right now. Sawyer ALWAYS helped her in the past. Why wouldn't killing the men have happened the first time around? It did, it always had, it always will.

As Daniel explained it---"Time is like a street, you can go backwards and forward on the street, but you can't change the street." It doesn't mean they can't interfere, just that if they do interfere, they always did interfere.

Daniel repeating over and over that he wasn't going to do it, he wasn't going to tell her is important because he knows that he will tell Charlotte not to come back to the island--he can't help it. He did it in the past and so he will always have done so in the past.

ETA: Think of Daniel's record anology. The record goes round and round moving forward. You can move backwards and forward on the record, but you can't change the record. What happens at the beginng of the record always sounded that way--always happened, always was there. That's why he said, "the record's not jumping anymore, we're just on the wrong song."

It's so hard to explain, but really its very simple--You cannot change the future. Whatever happened in the past always happened in the past.

 

[bengalbelle]

That is another one of the reasons why I stayed aways from them, but mainly because it took away the fun and suspense of watching every week. It lost something when I knew what was coming.

In regards to the baby. It totally fits. Age, sex, everything............We will see though. It's probably wrong!!

Is it a true spoiler or someone's guess? The suspense is killing me too but I've been so good this season.

 

[Disney1fan2002]

No that's not what he said at all. He said, "whatever happened, happened." Meaning if Sawyer helped her in the past, then he's going to do it right now. Sawyer ALWAYS helped her in the past. Why wouldn't killing the men have happened the first time around? It did, it always had, it always will.

but...but....but....

When this event happened the very first time, in 1974, the Other's kidnapped Amy and Paul and killed them. Sawyer hasn't always been there. He was a tiny child in 1974. (if he was even born at all). There had to be an ORIGINAL 1974..a 1974 with no time travelling plane crash survivors.

 

[Sk8Leigh]

ETA: Think of Daniel's record anology. The record goes round and round moving forward. You can move backwards and forward on the record, but you can't change the record. What happens at the beginng of the record always sounded that way--always happened, always was there. That's why he said, "the record's not jumping anymore, we're just on the wrong song."

It's so hard to explain, but really its very simple--You cannot change the future. Whatever happened in the past always happened in the past.

I know what you're saying, but really, time should be linear at some point, and absolute first time that 1974 and 1977 happened, the Losties weren't there. (Or maybe I'm just taking my time travel lessons from Back to the Future. )

ETA: Marie beat me to it. lol

 

[LuvBaloo]

but...but....but....

When this event happened the very first time, in 1974, the Other's kidnapped Amy and Paul and killed them. Sawyer hasn't always been there. He was a tiny child in 1974. (if he was even born at all). There had to be an ORIGINAL 1974..a 1974 with no time travelling plane crash survivors.

That's the big issue with time travel. Depends on which version you believe in. If you can't change the street just move backwards and forwards, then somethings have to have happened.

For example, Jin being on the freighter when it blew up. The freighter blew up because Ben killed Keamy, which resulted in Jin in the water and ending up in the past with Danielle's team. He stops Danielle from going into the temple when her male team members go after the guy that smoke monster took down the hole. By doing that, Jin saved Danielle, which leads to her having her baby, which leads to the Others stealing the baby and Ben raising her as his daughter. Then Keamy kills her, and Ben kills Keamy resulting in Jin in the water.

If Jin hadn't saved Danielle, there would have been no Alex for Ben to have, Keamy couldn't have killed her, the freighter wouldn't have blown up and Jin wouldn't have ended with Danielle's team. But Jin did end up with Danielle's team, so he had to have saved her.

Its a circle that could drive you insane.

 

[harleyquinn]

but...but....but....

When this event happened the very first time, in 1974, the Other's kidnapped Amy and Paul and killed them. Sawyer hasn't always been there. He was a tiny child in 1974. (if he was even born at all). There had to be an ORIGINAL 1974..a 1974 with no time travelling plane crash survivors.

How do you know that they were both killed? When has that come up in the show before? You don't know and it didn't come up, because she never died, because Sawyer was ALWAYS there to save her.

Yes, Sawyer has always been there in the past. The original 1974 is the same one that happened now. It always happens that way. If Sawyer was a child in 1974, then he was and he exists wherever he was as a child and he's on the island.

It's okay if you don't get it now as the season unfolds things will be clearer and it'll make more sense. It's just hard to see when we have pieces and can't see the whole puzzle!

 

[harleyquinn]

That's the big issue with time travel. Depends on which version you believe in. If you can't change the street just move backwards and forwards, then somethings have to have happened.

For example, Jin being on the freighter when it blew up. The freighter blew up because Ben killed Keamy, which resulted in Jin in the water and ending up in the past with Danielle's team. He stops Danielle from going into the temple when her male team members go after the guy that smoke monster took down the hole. By doing that, Jin saved Danielle, which leads to her having her baby, which leads to the Others stealing the baby and Ben raising her as his daughter. Then Keamy kills her, and Ben kills Keamy resulting in Jin in the water.

If Jin hadn't saved Danielle, there would have been no Alex for Ben to have, Keamy couldn't have killed her, the freighter wouldn't have blown up and Jin wouldn't have ended with Danielle's team. But Jin did end up with Danielle's team, so he had to have saved her.

Its a circle that could drive you insane.

Exactly!! Most books and shows with time travel go with the theory Lost is using, but far more people think of time travel in the Back to the Future sense, where the future doesn't change until someone from the future goes back and changes the past. You have to let that go for Lost and most other science fiction. In these works, the future people can't change the past, because the past has always been the past. Someone from the future ALWAYS went back to the past and did whatever they did. They don't change anything--it always was that way.