The nutters in CA who chained up 13 kids...

[Wishing on a star]

You guys.... Nobody at Disney or Vegas knew these children's true ages or circumstances.
And, yes people WILL look the other way.

There are many, many, cases where imprisoned and abused young women and children eventually, occasionally, go out in public with their abusive captors.
The CONTROL, and the 'facade', are totally and completely paralyzing.
And, in this case, it was their PARENTS!!!! This is the only thing these kids knew.

Do not question or understimate anything here.

I am going by what the authorities are reporting.
Anyone who is trying to play armchair judge and jury based on one photograph, or who is focusing on other things that the warped human mind can focus on, is not seeing the whole story, and are making a big mistake.

And for those who want to bring up, and blame, religion....
Look at the photos with Mickey Mouse, maybe Disney or Mickey Mouse are to blame????
Seriously...

This is the sick, evil, warped, depravity of one or two people's minds.

 

[Imzadi]

I understand quite well that this situation has nothing whatsoever to do with religion in the slightest.

You missed my point. Grandma used that excuse so she could live in plausible deniability.

 

[AppleDumpling]

The more details I hear, the more disgusted I get. It’s so twisted. There is no punishment too severe for these two monsters.

 

[RedAngie]

And I have to say, the way the grandma is defending her son is throwing up some serious red flags to me. She mentioned she's trying to get in touch with the children. I sincerely hope that the authorities don't allow that, at least until they know more.

Based on Granny's initial and additional statements, I'm pretty sure that she was well aware of how the grandkids were being raised and she approved and condoned it. And if she wants to get in touch, it's to make sure they don't reveal any incriminating information.

 

[Imzadi]

And if she wants to get in touch, it's to make sure they don't reveal any incriminating information.

Maybe she actually thinks the father will get out on parole in a few years and she can keep the kids until they are able to be reunited.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Yes, I said all along.... Well, she is the grandma....

And, in a case this severe, yes, I believe that the authorities will be VERY thorough and be very careful about who has any access to these kids / young adults.

Look at Jerry Sandusky... a LOT of people went along, lived in denial, etc.... about the abuse of those boys.
Many of them were investigated.

 

[Imzadi]

And, in a case this severe, yes, I believe that the authorities will be VERY thorough and be very careful about who has any access to these kids / young adults.

Unfortunately, I think the law is on Grandma's side. Next of kin usually have rights to take the children, if she wants them, over someone unrelated. The court would have to prove WHY she wouldn't be good for them to live with her. Being a loon isn't necessarily enough to stop her from getting the kids.

 

[TipsyTraveler]

I'm going to play armchair psychologist for a minute and say the motivation for this wasn't about "keeping them kids forever" or what have you, though in some ways that was the result. I believe the motivation was simply one or both of the parents having an overwhelming need to feel control. Control over everything the kids did and ate, when they could shower, when they could sleep, where they could go, what they wore, not allowing them friends, dates, or the freedom to move out... Infantilizing them to the point that they couldn't function as independent adults is just another way of keeping control over them. The trips to Disney and Vegas were about controlling their image to other people. "Look, we're so in love we just have to renew our vows again! And all our dutiful children are there to support us! In matching outfits! Because we're just the bestest, most perfect family ever!"

Control, control, control.

 

[starry_solo]

From Facebook (as FYI: I am in Riverside County, CA so it's being shared already)

For people who heard that horrible news from Perris: the County of Riverside has received a number of requests for how people can help the rescued children. Below is an excerpt from a press release from the County, with information on a place you can donate where you know it will all go to help them:

Many people have asked how they can help the siblings in Perris who recently were rescued after being abused for years. The Riverside University Health System Foundation has opened a support fund for the 13 siblings. Individual contributions (tax-deductible cash contributions or gift cards) can be made by visiting www.RUHealth.org/foundation or by mail to RUHS Foundation at PO Box 9850, Moreno Valley, CA 92552 (with an indication in the memo line that it is for the "Perris Sibling Support Fund."

Direct link:
http://www.ruhealth.org/en-us/foundation/donate/Pages/PerrisSiblingSupportFund.aspx

 

[Wishing on a star]

Unfortunately, I think the law is on Grandma's side. Next of kin usually have rights to take the children, if she wants them, over someone unrelated. The court would have to prove WHY she wouldn't be good for them to live with her. Being a loon isn't necessarily enough to stop her from getting the kids.

I would have to very strongly disagree.
I don't know about the States involved here.
But, from what I know, actual Grandparents Rights are very very limited.

She has shown a 30 year history of not showing any ability or willingness to look out for the best interest of these kids. I hope I am right in thinking that she doesn't have a prayer.

 

[Imzadi]

But, from what I know, actual Grandparents Rights are very very limited.

I said she's next of kin. The same would apply for an aunt or a cousin or a sibling. I think the courts usually want to award custody or guardianship to a related family member before giving kids over to unrelated people.

 

[runwad]

So they went to Disney with their grandparents, was this just a day trip? Did they go for a few days? Did they get to eat normally there in front of their grandparents, or did they not eat?

I heard reports from the hospital that they had to be careful feeding them, couldn't give them too much too fast. I'm just curious how meals were handled on outings with other people. Did they get sick from eating some of the food their bodies weren't used to?

Such a sad story, my heart breaks for the atrocities they had to experience.

 

[luvflorida]

“They are the sweetest family,” said Turpin, 81, of Princeton, W.Va. “They were just like any ordinary family. And they had such good relationships. I’m not just saying this stuff. These kids, we were amazed. They were ‘sweetie’ this and ‘sweetie’ that to each other."

12 kids calling each other sweetie and they didn't see anything odd?

Seriously. I would have been amazed if my kids called each other sweetie, but my amazement would have been because it was totally odd, not because I thought they were super polite to each other.

This story makes me sick to my stomach.

The grandparents had to have known. They knew the ages of the children. They would have known how underdeveloped they looked for their age and the fact that none of them left the house as adults or did normal adult things.

Yes, totally agree.

I have the hardest time understanding how they were able to go to Vegas and Disneyland. One of the linked articles said some of the kids didn’t know what a police officer was and one said they froze when a neighbor tried to talk to them...but Disney can be absolutely overwhelming for even neurotypicsl kids who are raised in normal situations. I can’t imagine how 12 kids, some with cognitive issues, that are chained to beds for weeks and only shower once a year we’re able to walk around and ride attractions without absolutely melting down. They should have been shying away from other people and afraid of contact, but you are crammed into lines with strangers and I’m sure people made friendly comments about the size of their family.

And why weren’t the parents petrified that one of the kids would tell another adult that they were chained up at home or hadn’t eaten. Especially the little ones or cognitively impaired kids. You can’t control what they say and it would be so easy for one of them to blurt something out.

It seems so incredibly off that they are smiling in Vegas and Disney without any outward, even subconscious body language, sign that they were being tortured. Am I the only one confused by that?

No, you're not the only one. I mentioned the same thing in my first post. However, after reading some of the possible explanations from other posts, I can understand how it was possible. Still, it's difficult to reconcile those smiling faces at Disneyland with the reality of their horrible life at home.

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I find it odd that caring grandparents would not be distressed at the children’s physical appearance and disposition, after spending a day or even a few hours with them. If you haven’t seen your GC in a long time, wouldn’t you be conversing with them and asking them about what’s going on in their lives? Were there no signs of trouble in paradise? Like pp said, they must’ve either been in denial or else very naive.

They could have been in denial or very naïve, but honestly, I believe there also has to be something seriously wrong with the grandparents as well as their son and his wife.

 

[OhMari]

So they went to Disney with their grandparents, was this just a day trip? Did they go for a few days? Did they get to eat normally there in front of their grandparents, or did they not eat?

I heard reports from the hospital that they had to be careful feeding them, couldn't give them too much too fast. I'm just curious how meals were handled on outings with other people. Did they get sick from eating some of the food their bodies weren't used to?

Such a sad story, my heart breaks for the atrocities they had to experience.

During the Holocaust, when the survivors in the prison camps were released, their bodies were only used to water and small amounts of rice, or bread. Picture their stomaches being the size of a pea vs. the size of a fist, which is suppose to be a normal size stomache. If you force food down into the stomach, the food will be rejected and this happened to many holocaust survivors and many did pass away, because they had no one to help them recover and eat slowly with small amounts of food or have IV's to get them back to hydration.

 

[gotomu212]

It's because, above all, they knew better than to anger their parents. They would never act a fool in public, try to make an escape, tip off someone to the abuse, not smile for the camera, or do anything at all that would risk them becoming the focus of their parents' wrath. When you live in fear of someone, you do everything in your power not to upset the apple cart. Yes, they thought about escaping, but if they attempted an escape and failed they knew their life would get so much worse as a result. Fear kept them toeing the line.

That makes a lot of sense, and please I hope no one thinks I’m questioning their account or trying to minimize anything. These parents are absolute monsters and this entire situation is unthinkable. I personally am just having such a tough time wrapping my head around it and am trying to make sense of it.

I did some very limited work with children that were neglected and abused in the extreme (locked in closets for weeks, never let out of the house, chained in the yard cases). In those cases the kids abilities to function above instinct was gone. They would flinch from light, the rooms had to be kept dim for them; if someone accidentally touched them they would cower like an animal that was abused. There is zero way those children could have gone to a supermarket because there were non-functioning due to the abuse. They didn’t have the ability to please their abusers or rationally behave.

No two cases are the same and potentially having so many siblings in similar situations could have helped them cope. It’s just so hard to hear what they were experiencing and how well they seem to function (given how long standing and horrific their experience).

 

[robinb]

I'm going to play armchair psychologist for a minute and say the motivation for this wasn't about "keeping them kids forever" or what have you, though in some ways that was the result. I believe the motivation was simply one or both of the parents having an overwhelming need to feel control. Control over everything the kids did and ate, when they could shower, when they could sleep, where they could go, what they wore, not allowing them friends, dates, or the freedom to move out... Infantilizing them to the point that they couldn't function as independent adults is just another way of keeping control over them. The trips to Disney and Vegas were about controlling their image to other people. "Look, we're so in love we just have to renew our vows again! And all our dutiful children are there to support us! In matching outfits! Because we're just the bestest, most perfect family ever!"

Control, control, control.

Yes, I think so too. Only, I would go as far as saying the multiple vow renewals was another form of control to bind the mother to the father again and again controlling her also.

 

[OhMari]

That makes a lot of sense, and please I hope no one thinks I’m questioning their account or trying to minimize anything. These parents are absolute monsters and this entire situation is unthinkable. I personally am just having such a tough time wrapping my head around it and am trying to make sense of it.

I did some very limited work with children that were neglected and abused in the extreme (locked in closets for weeks, never let out of the house, chained in the yard cases). In those cases the kids abilities to function above instinct was gone. They would flinch from light, the rooms had to be kept dim for them; if someone accidentally touched them they would cower like an animal that was abused. There is zero way those children could have gone to a supermarket because there were non-functioning due to the abuse. They didn’t have the ability to please their abusers or rationally behave.

No two cases are the same and potentially having so many siblings in similar situations could have helped them cope. It’s just so hard to hear what they were experiencing and how well they seem to function (given how long standing and horrific their experience).

Their had to be talk among the children, especially for the 17 year old that got out. Maybe the older children were in charge of the younger one's and the younger ones questioned things and the older ones didn't have the heart to treat their siblings as they were treated.

 

[Skellingtonj]

They were allowed one meal a day and 2 showers a year! And the mom had no knowledge of anything that went on in the house. She questioned why the police were there. It’s all so sickening.

 

[Imzadi]

During the Holocaust, when the survivors in the prison camps were released, their bodies were only used to water and small amounts of rice, or bread. Picture their stomaches being the size of a pea vs. the size of a fist, which is suppose to be a normal size stomache. If you force food down into the stomach, the food will be rejected and this happened to many holocaust survivors and many did pass away, because they had no one to help them recover and eat slowly with small amounts of food or have IV's to get them back to hydration.

First thing I thought of is that the kids are getting IV's of plenty of the nutrients they've been missing for so many years. And yes, that too has to be done slowly.

 

[sailorstitch]

I'm going to play arm chair psychologist for a minute and say the motivation for this wasn't about "keeping them kids forever" or what have you, though in some ways that was the result. I believe the motivation was simply one or both of the parents having an overwhelming need to feel control. Control over everything the kids did and ate, when they could shower, when they could sleep, where they could go, what they wore, not allowing them friends, dates, or the freedom to move out... Infantilizing them to the point that they couldn't function as independent adults is just another way of keeping control over them. The trips to Disney and Vegas were about controlling their image to other people. "Look, we're so in love we just have to renew our vows again! And all our dutiful children are there to support us! In matching outfits! Because we're just the bestest, most perfect family ever!"

Control, control, control.

Yes, yes, a million times YES!

My dad had MAJOR control issues. Not any where near to this extreme, but I did experience a bit of what these kids went through. Even after I became an adult my dad tried to control everything I did down to what clothes a I wore, what tv shows I watched and where I was allowed to go. In most cases he didn't succeed.

When I was around 17/18, my favorite tv show was Walker, Texas Ranger. My mom loved the show too. Dad didn't want me watching it because it was "too violent". Thanks to grandma, I had a tv in my room and watched the show in there.

Also around the same age, a friend invited me to spend the night. This was in the winter and the weather forecast was giving a very small percentage for a chance for snow. Nothing out of the ordinary for IN. My dad would not let me spend the night because (and this is a direct quote), "If it snows you'll get trapped there and then I'll never see you again". Ah... what?

When I graduated high school my dad decided what college I was going to go to, what degree I was going to get and even what classes I was going to take each semester. I was not allowed to sign up for my classes without him there. Yeah... that did not work out well for me. Five years of college and I learned nothing.

While I was in college I reconnected with a friend that had moved away when I was 16. He was now living in Colorado and invited me to come for a visit. I was 21 at the time. My dad flat out told me I wasn't allowed to go. My mom recognized the fact that I was an adult and a trip like that would be good for me. Somehow she talked dad into "letting" me go. Before I went my dad had a talk with me. He was worried that my friend would try to "take advantage" of me and I would let him because I "don't know any better". Ok, dad. Exactly how stupid do you think I am? What my dad didn't realize was that I had had a crush on my friend for years. If anybody was "taking advantage" of somebody, it was me! Thankfully, dad never found out what really happened on that trip.

After I got back from that trip, we were at my aunt's (dad's sister) house. My parents mentioned my trip to her. My aunt got really furious at my parents for letting me go. Apparently, I wasn't "old enough" to be traveling that far without adult supervision.

My dad didn't starve me or chain me to the bed, but screaming matches were a daily occurrence. And there were a few times that I was not permitted to leave the house for no reason other than because dad said so.