The Night Kingdom

[tomerin]

i think that if they do the night kingdom it will be done in a manner that will please even the harshest WDW critics. after rushing out DHS and AK and hopefully realizing the folly of opening theme parks that are incomplete, night kingdom may get the care and quality it would need to be an immediate hit.

notice the use of hopefully and may.

by the time this ever gets done the new attractions at UO should be open already so WDW knows it needs a slam dunk to stem the stream of guests who will go to see harry.

it may not "stem the stream of guests" but if done properly it will send out notice to the competition that WDW still has the ability to put out attractions that are the industry gold standard.

 

[SandraVB79]

Hi, my name is Sandra and I am a Disney brand monkey who is tupid enough to like DCA and might be stupid enought to pay $300 for the Night Kingdom. Btw, I also have underwear that has Mickey on it.

I don't know whether you all realize this, but Disney hasn't given out any official information about a 5th gate. What I see now is that Disney is being bashed for some rumours Jim Hill spread around regarding a 5th gate.

 

[MJMcBride]

Hi, my name is Sandra and I am a Disney brand monkey who is tupid enough to like DCA and might be stupid enought to pay $300 for the Night Kingdom.

Good luck to you on the Rumors Board. Its a tough crowd for pixie-dusters

 

[DisOrBust]

Disney doesn't do it better we just wish it would so we can justify being fleeced. Take a look at Seuss landing at IOA. I compare the kids area to the dinoland area at AK. It blows AK out of the water. They were also created "around" the same time. They got the Caroseusel and we got tricerotop spin. Thank god UO got Harry.

 

[Another Voice]

Hi, my name is Sandra and I am a Disney brand monkey who is tupid enough to like DCA and might be stupid enought to pay $300 for the Night Kingdom. Btw, I also have underwear that has Mickey on it.

I am very glad you are happy with your choices. I have nothing against anyone that likes what Disney is currently giving them.

My concern is that for Disney to remain a viable company, they're now banking on attraction 16,999,999 other people just like you.

As much as you enjoy your underwear, I think it would much easier for Disney to acheive its goal by sticking to the company's princples - imagination, excellence and value for all - rather seeking new ways to squeeze out more money from the pitiful few people who actually like California Adventure.

 

[DancingBear]

Hi, my name is Sandra and I am a Disney brand monkey who is tupid enough to like DCA and might be stupid enought to pay $300 for the Night Kingdom.

Good luck completing the 12 steps.

 

[PinCrazed]

I am very glad you are happy with your choices. I have nothing against anyone that likes what Disney is currently giving them.

My concern is that for Disney to remain a viable company, they're now banking on attraction 16,999,999 other people just like you.

As much as you enjoy your underwear, I think it would much easier for Disney to acheive its goal by sticking to the company's princples - imagination, excellence and value for all - rather seeking new ways to squeeze out more money from the pitiful few people who actually like California Adventure.

Let's not forget Disney boxers!

 

[12kizuna]

As much as you enjoy your underwear, I think it would much easier for Disney to acheive its goal by sticking to the company's princples - imagination, excellence and value for all - rather seeking new ways to squeeze out more money from the pitiful few people who actually like California Adventure.

Another Voice, I think any consideration I had for your ideas in this topic was just shot down with that "holier-than-thou", middle school approach to giving your opinion.
I get it. You don't like California Adventure. Grow up and realize that people vary, and simply because they like something doesn't make them ignorant or stupid. On the contrary, seeing something only from one point of view I might label as such.
But who am I to judge?

On the topic, before I waste energy and bash Disney into the ground over something that hasn't even come into existence yet, I am interested to see what will be offered. Sure, it sounds a bit pricey, but so far it is only a rumor and the park, to our knowledge, has yet to be built. It sounds like an interesting concept-- sure, it's more invigorating to actually go rock climbing, travel to Africa and feed a hippo, etc. etc. etc. but honestly? I think it sounds like a good price for people who want to get mini-experiences all in one place, where they don't need a traveler's visa.

I have been to Tokyo Disney Sea also, when I was in school in Japan several years ago, and I have to admit I did like it. It was beautiful, spacious, and had lots of fun things to do. I liked it considerably more than Tokyo Disneyland (at least whenever I went, TDS was always much emptier than in TDL, and I could literally walk on several rides in Sea as opposed to the more crowded Land). I also have to admit, that I don't think it held any superiority over all of the other Disney parks in existence in what it offered. It had an Indiana Jones ride that was fun, 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea (different from the old one that was taken out in MK), some awesome shows... but I can in all honesty say that I can't remember anything that I would say was so much better of an experience than the rides / shows in the US.
I have to stop and wonder (forgive me if I'm wrong) if those who travel to Japan with TDL and TDS in their minds find them to be that more amazing because they are in a foreign country. Because they are in Japan. I could be going out on a limb with that one, but chances are if you've spent a fortune on the plane tickets,getting hotels and buying train tickets, etc., you have high expectations of what you have payed all that money and journeyed so far for.
(sounds familiar doesn't it?)

Tokyo Disney Sea is very, very cool... but I don't think its the biggest jaw-dropper as some people make it out to be. If some let themselves see the magic in it that way, though, who am I to say that they are crazy in doing so? I say long live the magic if thats what you want to see!

 

[ChrisFL]

Another Voice, I think any consideration I had for your ideas in this topic was just shot down with that "holier-than-thou", middle school approach to giving your opinion.
I get it. You don't like California Adventure. Grow up and realize that people vary, and simply because they like something doesn't make them ignorant or stupid. On the contrary, seeing something only from one point of view I might label as such.
But who am I to judge?

On the topic, before I waste energy and bash Disney into the ground over something that hasn't even come into existence yet, I am interested to see what will be offered. Sure, it sounds a bit pricey, but so far it is only a rumor and the park, to our knowledge, has yet to be built. It sounds like an interesting concept-- sure, it's more invigorating to actually go rock climbing, travel to Africa and feed a hippo, etc. etc. etc. but honestly? I think it sounds like a good price for people who want to get mini-experiences all in one place, where they don't need a traveler's visa.

I have been to Tokyo Disney Sea also, when I was in school in Japan several years ago, and I have to admit I did like it. It was beautiful, spacious, and had lots of fun things to do. I liked it considerably more than Tokyo Disneyland (at least whenever I went, TDS was always much emptier than in TDL, and I could literally walk on several rides in Sea as opposed to the more crowded Land). I also have to admit, that I don't think it held any superiority over all of the other Disney parks in existence in what it offered. It had an Indiana Jones ride that was fun, 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea (different from the old one that was taken out in MK), some awesome shows... but I can in all honesty say that I can't remember anything that I would say was so much better of an experience than the rides / shows in the US.
I have to stop and wonder (forgive me if I'm wrong) if those who travel to Japan with TDL and TDS in their minds find them to be that more amazing because they are in a foreign country. Because they are in Japan. I could be going out on a limb with that one, but chances are if you've spent a fortune on the plane tickets,getting hotels and buying train tickets, etc., you have high expectations of what you have payed all that money and journeyed so far for.
(sounds familiar doesn't it?)

Tokyo Disney Sea is very, very cool... but I don't think its the biggest jaw-dropper as some people make it out to be. If some let themselves see the magic in it that way, though, who am I to say that they are crazy in doing so? I say long live the magic if thats what you want to see!

I disagree, as often as I've said things defending Islands of Adventure from people who have never been but think it's "another Six Flags park" I'd also say that DCA is much closer to that end of the scale.

The fact is that theming and quality CAN be measured objectively, while feelings of "magic" can be subjective in some ways. The amount of detail, historical accuracy, quality of materials, amount of upkeep and making it look brand new every day (like Walt wanted) CAN be 100% measured and compared, and this is where it is very clear that DCA fell WAY short of the mark and a place like TDS can claim victory.

Sure, you can't guarantee that always more people will feel "magic" at TDS or "Feel like they've been taken to another place" but it certaintly WON'T be due to lack of effort or budget like DCA suffers from.

 

[Another Voice]

But who am I to judge?

You're not one to "judge". Nor am I.

But the millions of people that just refuse to go to California Adventure...they speak very loud I think.

It's one thing to be a fan and think of nothing but one's own enjoyment. But people who also are interested in the company have to see things for other angles. If you like California Adventure, please go grab all the free tortillas you wish. But I'm interested in seeing Disney prosper and I'm interested in seeing Disney continue it's long tradition of speaking to a wide variety of people - of entertaining everyone and not small groups. And as a stockholder I'm interested in seeing that Disney spends money to grow and improve, not loose large sums of money on bad projects.

There's a reason why tickets to DisneySea are dated restricted and those to California Adventure are being given away for free. I want to know why, and I want to know why to avoid creating flops just like DCA. And I certainly don't want Disney to throw away even more money on an ill-conviced and ill-planned "night" project in Florida.

If worrying about financial success and popularity is "holier-than-thou" than there's little that can be discussed except your likes and dislikes. But in the real world there are real measurements and real issues to talk about - you are only sixty-six bucks of a ten billion dollar reality.

 

[12kizuna]

If worrying about financial success and popularity is "holier-than-thou" than there's little that can be discussed except your likes and dislikes. But in the real world there are real measurements and real issues to talk about - you are only sixty-six bucks of a ten billion dollar reality.

I can see your points, but it was the matter in which you presented your opinion that I found distasteful, such as calling those who enjoy the park "pitiful". You can have a pile of dog poop and there will always be someone in the world who truly likes it. Would I call them pitiful? Nope. Not to my taste, but I call that "judging", and I did see your comments as though you might have been standing on a pedestal. When you talk down to or about other people who are against your own way of thinking (no matter how right or wrong you are), I lose respect for your argument.

That's all.

 

[MJMcBride]

Good luck to you on the Rumors Board. Its a tough crowd for pixie-dusters

I warned ya, Sandra

 

[Another Voice]

such as calling those who enjoy the park "pitiful".

The phrase was "pitful few" as in 'a number so small as to bring about pity". It's a comment on Disney's grand ambitions for the park and lack of effort to acheive those goals - DCA can not bring in a fraction of the number of people Disney intended.

There are plenty of rotten movies that I enjoy (and worked on more than I care to publically admit). There are lots of bad restaurants that I go to. I certainly have no room to judge anyone's taste.

But that's the hard step from "being a fan" to "understanding the art". What I like or don't like isn't the same thing as "good" and "bad". What I like and don't like may not be shared with the millions and millions of other people out there.

So when you read plans about a "Night Kingdom" there are two ways to look at it - will it be something that I like, or will it be something the public likes with great enough zeal to drop three Franklins a pop and will there be enough of those people to make the park successful?

 

[MJMcBride]

There are plenty of rotten movies that I enjoy (and worked on more than I care to publically admit).

Are you Ashton Kutcher in real life?

 

[ChrisFL]

So when you read plans about a "Night Kingdom" there are two ways to look at it - will it be something that I like, or will it be something the public likes with great enough zeal to drop three Franklins a pop and will there be enough of those people to make the park successful?

That makes it all the more troubling seeing that the actual percentage of guests they need is only about .5 percent! So unlike convincing a majority of guests who visit DL to visit DCA, or the other examples, they would need to convince very very few people.

And people don't expect this to happen? From a purely financial standpoint I don't see how Disney could lose. I'm sure it was an easy sell to those who green-lit this kind of thing.

If successful they'd be getting the same income as if 3+ million guests visited MK (paying full price) for the year...... if my math is correct.

 

[Another Voice]

From a purely financial standpoint I don't see how Disney could lose.

That's exactly the thinking that went into California Adventure. The place was designed to turn a huge profit from Day One with less than half the number of visitors to Disneyland. How could Disney lose - a the first new Disney theme park in fifty years, hot new cutting-edge proven attractions, hip and edgy design at the very forefront of fashionable irony...how could staid and boring Disneyland stand a chance!!!. Yet even with Disneyland a hundred yards away, DCA has yet to come even close to pulling in a third of the older's park attendance.

Now take that same mentality and boost it up the ticket prices five hundred percent? Or take a look at The Disney Institute. That was another plan that was to move Disney into the high-end latte crowd. It too was a disaster.

I am sure there is a substantial market for a $300+ ticket. But I have serious doubts about Disney's ability to properly identify, sympathize and cater to that market. Disney is so focused on "brand experience" that they've lost site of the basics of entertainment these days. They might be able to get people into the parks for seventy-five buck that, but charging real money really changes the rules.

 

[SandraVB79]

I warned ya, Sandra

Thank you for warning me
But I'm young and naive and have no fear to admit I spend 13 hours on a plane and cross 9 time zones to spend some nice time at DCA Even my mom, who doesn't like doing rides, likes it there.





I remember someone saying here: why go on a fake safari at AK if you can go to the real stuff?
Well, why eating fake French food in a fake French bistro while looking at a fake French Eiffel tower at Epcot if you could just as well go to the real place?
It's the same thing. I don't like Epcot for just that reason, and because I have seen most of the places in real. Therefore I like AK, because I like to see the "wild" animals without needing all the vaccinations and traveling to Africa.

 

[Another Voice]

Well, why eating fake French food in a fake French bistro while looking at a fake French Eiffel tower at Epcot if you could just as well go to the real place?

That's the problem Disney has had since the beginning - it's walking the fine line between creating a unique experience and simply creating kitsch, a kind of tacky fake reality that's supposed to subsitute for the real thing.

Disney had been getting around that by creating places from fantasy. You can't walk around an old western town or a place where 'Toons live in the real world. EPCOT Center tried to create "romanatic" version of its countries - a place that wasn't trying to be like France or Italy, but to bring to life the image that everyone has in their head of the place. The goal was to make you feel like this is the place that you had always dreamt of.

The closer Disney gets to reality, the harder it is to keep from sliding into "faux" or "Vegas". That's the problem that California Adventure has. It's a too literal re-creation of what you already see in real life. The real Hollywood Blvd. is less than an hour away. The real Sierras are much more breathtaken and exciting than Disney's pile of concrete. And who wants to see a cheap sea-side (without the real ocean) amusement park when you have Disneyland a hundred yards away?

DCA doesn't offer any sense "you can only experience it here" which Disney has built into its other successful parks. Worse, the real places are so much more accessable and better than Disney's replicas - why settle for a cheap copy when you have the real thing so close? Remember that over 60% of Disneyland's attendance drives less than an hour to get to Disneyland.

 

[Jason71]

Bumping to note that the NY Post picked up on Jim Hill's rumor last Sunday:

http://www.nypost.com/seven/03092008/business/is_disney_cookin_up_5th_park__101121.htm

Almost a complete rehash of the original JHM article, other than a sentence stating that "Night Kingdom" would be adjacent to PI (?!?). I think clearly the reporter misunderstood, and this is a reference to the AC moving. Or maybe WDW really is going to build an African savannah in the old Beach Club.

Probably worth noting again that Jim Hill also said DisneyQuest would close in January 2008, Cars would flop, Disney had a done deal with JK Rowling to bring Harry Potter to its parks, and a High School Musical dinner show is going into the old Dixie Stampede building. So I wouldn't start planning that 2011 trip just yet.

 

[MJMcBride]

So I wouldn't start planning that 2011 trip just yet.

ya think