The New Bond *with spoilers*

SimonV

Proud to have called Bob Varley 'friend'
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Having gone out fairly eagerly to watch the new Bond film Casino Royale starring Daniel Craig, I am struggling to control my contempt and loathing for this 'new' interpretation of Ian Fleming's classic novels.

Put simply, this is a sickening betrayal of just about everything the Bond franchise has stood for, both as entertainment and as a slick, fun alternative to the usual thriller genre. The Bond films have always been larger-than-life, glamorous portrayals of the super-spy world, full of eye-catching stunts, brilliant gadgets, gorgeous actors and actresses, dangerous, world-threatening villains and tongue-in-cheek humour. This film reduces the whole franchise to just another bunch of thugs with guns. And to give it a PG-13 rating, when it contains a genuinely sick torture scene, is a joke.

Casino Royale has one great (if rather pointless) chase scene, some neat jet-setting between venues, a brief attempt at gadgetry and the most botched storyline in the history of Bond films (and that includes the fairly woeful Moonraker!). Daniel Craig turns in a grimly athletic performance and looks good in a swimsuit and a dinner jacket, but he is more male model than international spy. To say this is a low-budget Bond is a massive understatement.

There is also nothing glamorous about any of this film; if anything, it veers into the murky and grimy world of Quentin Tarantino, and the torture sequence is more Saw than anything else. The actors are a bunch of complete nobodies, with no charisma, charm or menace; you've never heard of any of them in a major role prior to this film, and you never will (with the obvious exception of Judi Dench, who must wonder what she's doing among such utterly clueless company). The main part of the ridiculously over-long story revolves around a dull, incomprehensible poker game which makes a game of Snap seem like world-class chess. And the pitiful love interest is enough to make you weep for Sean Connery/Honor Blackman, Roger Moore/Jane Seymour, Pierce Brosnan/Halle Berry and even George Lazenby/Diana Rigg, but most especially for Ian Fleming himself. It is such a butchered presentation of his smart, urbane super-spy, it makes you wonder if the film-makers ever saw a single one of the previous 20 movies or read a single Fleming book.

If you like your Bond as if he's come straight from some dingy East End market, with no sense of humour, charisma or presence; who falls in love improbably and pointlessly; who chases villains recklessly and without regard to injuring innocent by-standers; who fails to grasp the basics of his job; and who looks as if he would be more at home in a bookies than a casino, then this is the Bond for you.

Casino Royale is not edgy, well-acted or clever enough to be a Bourne movie (which it clearly wants to be); it is not eye-catching or star-studded enough to be a Mission Impossible film (not by a LONG way); it is not gritty and realistic enough to be from the Michael Caine/Ipcress File genre; and it is not remotely interesting enough to be the start of a 'new' Bond direction.

No, the makers have just dug a huge hole for the franchise and thrown in a pile of unconvincing, turgid nonsense that wastes a glorious chance to give new direction and life to the genre. It is dull, vicious and soul-less. By trying to give it a 'modern' direction and feel, the film-makers completely lose the point of the Bond style. There are so many better-made films of the modern thriller/spy type these days, why try to copy what they are doing? And why try to do it with a bunch of people who would struggle to bring any life or glamour to an episode of Eastenders? Mads Mikkelsen (who?) as the chief villain is simply woeful - you would find more menace from the playground bully at the neraest primary school. A threat to world peace? He's more of a threat to the acting profession.

You can probably tell by now I am singularly underwhelmed by this film. I liked it about as much as I like root canal dentistry, and it was barely as enjoyable; I thought it was a twisted, badly-advised and ill conceived concept - like saying let's reinvent Sherlock Holmes as a bumbling, womanising, muscle-bound action hero; and I found it a disgrace to a long line of distinguished - and hugely entertaining - films.

And, if just one person decides not to go after reading this, I will feel that my spleen has been satisfactorily vented!

Now, let the arguments start...............!!
 
I really love the Bond films. Since Peirce Brosnan was replaced I just don't fancy the new film. Can't see how the original Casino Royale can be bettered.
 
I'm not going to argue with you Simon, as we all have our own opinions about James Bond :)

If Casino Royale is as far removed from the previous James Bond movies as you say it is then ~ GREAT ~ as I have never been a Bond fan. I have totally bought in to the hype of this film and really hope to go and see it soon. Daniel Craig looks a lot edgier than previous Bonds and he looks fab in his swimming trunks too :thumbsup2

Thanks for your review Simon

Mandy :)
 

Hi Mandy. My wife will whole-heartedly agree with you about the beefcake-in-trunks observation, and I'm sure she'll be along soon to add her two-penneth as she has a far less damning verdict!
 
Simon, I agree! I have to admit I didn't really understand the plot, which I don't think I've ever noticed with other bond movies, even though I probably didn't understand them either it never got in the way of enjoying them. I missed Moneypenny and Q and all the great gadgets that usually add up to a great bond adventure. There were no sharp one-liners or the usual double-entendres.

While I don't think Pierce Brosnan would have fitted into this new cold, beaten-up bond (or his trunks!) I think that's sadly our loss. Maybe it was the novice 007 finding his feet,(both Bond and Craig) but we won't know that til the next film.

Lynn
 
Sorry to say from the pictures I've seen, Daniel in his swimming trunks do nothing for me. Pierce Brosnan however is a different kettle of fish!!!
 
Shhhhh....don't tell Simon I posted here, but he mentioned starting this thread so I had to come and put my .02 cents worth in (or maybe one of those tuppance/haypenny things....).

In all honesty I did not read his thread because a) it's long and b) I've been hearing about it for two days already and I know where he stands. ;)

We're in total agreement about the 'torture' scene. Absolutely sickening, especially given the fact it's a PG13 rating here (suitable for 13s and up). I also had a problem with bits and pieces of the plot, some of which I could not forgive, but most of which I could.

However, I didn't really have a problem with Bond being 'reinvented'. Sean Connery lived up to the original personna, Roger Moore did not. But I still liked the Roger Moore movies, as they were funny, gadget-y and took viewers on a fantasy-holiday to beautiful locations. Timothy Dalton didn't even register on my radar and while Pierce Brosnan might be ultra-pretty, he's never going to be my idea of Bond. He looks like he spends all his time in the tanning salon and the spa, and none of his time doing anything truly demanding. In short, wimpy, wimpy, wimpy! (Your milage may vary).

I liked this Bond. He's no actor, but he's got the look, he's got the raw edge, and I was willing to accept that he could be Bond before Bond became suave. I could not accept his turning into Kissy-Kissy-Boo-Boo-Kitty over a plain-Jane co-worker. Bond, no matter who plays him, would never do that.

Oops.....here comes Simon! Don't tell him I said this. Just tell him he's the only Bond for me! :teeth:
 
SimonV said:
It is such a butchered presentation of his smart, urbane super-spy, it makes you wonder if the film-makers ever saw a single one of the previous 20 movies or read a single Fleming book.

Now, let the arguments start...............!!

Hi Simon,

I think maybe it's you who has not read a single James Bond book because if you had you would know that the books are gritty thrillers with torture scenes in the majority of the novels. The Bond of the novels was an almost humourless anti-hero with none of the throwaway lines which the movie version adhered to. Producers, Broccoli and Saltzman, wisely lightened the character for the times (1960's) and Connery portrayed the secret agent we all know and love with aplomb. George Lazenby was excellent in, MHO, probably the best Bond of all, OHMSS. Although slated at the time the movie and his performance has aged well and is considered the best, along with Goildfinger, of all the Bond canon amongst 007 fans. Roger Moore, although excellent as The Saint and Lord Brett Sinclair from The Persuaders, was a wholly inadequate Bond reducing the character to clown-like status. Timothy Dalton was probably the closest to the Bond of the novels up to Daniel Craig and Pierce Brosnan was only so-so in hideously convoluted plotlines.

Now to Casino Royale. Simon, I have to disagree with almost everything you say! I found it to be a brilliant reinvention. The producers returning to the original first novel and cleverly rebooting the entire series is a masterstroke. Daniel Craig puts in a tremendous performance, full of vitality as we see Bond earn his 00-status and embark on his first mission. The basis of the novel is kept intact although the card game is changed from chemin-de-fer to the popular Texas Hold'Em poker game. I found the level of performances of all the actors to be impressive. Surely you cannot think that Richard Kiel as Jaws and the invisible Aston Martin from Die Another Die to name but two disasters are more desirable than this genuinely thrilling action movie?

This is a new Bond for the 21st century, a Bond updated from the 50-year old novels but still close to Fleming's original character. I liked it and think others will do.

I respect your opinion, Simon, but I think you are wrong!

Florida Lol
 
Well, it was always going to elicit polarising opinions.

And, if just one person decides not to go after reading this, I will feel that my spleen has been satisfactorily vented!
Sorry, Simon, but I'm looking forward to making up my own mind.
 
Hi Floridalol. I hear what you're saying and do agree with a lot of it. I actually read all the Bond books as a kid (OK, that's a LONG time ago!) and know full well that the film versions pretty much threw most of the characterisation out of the window once Roger Moore came on board, so that is a very valid observation. The book Bond was most definitely more hard-bitten and had very little of the humour which came to be associated with him from the film version. But the book Bond was still urbane, smart, sophisticated and even compassionate (from The Spy Who Loved Me, which was actually one of the most revealing novels of them all, from a character point of view); he came from a 1950s Oxford University background (from where MI5 and MI6 recruited most of their staff), spoke fluent Russian (and other languages) and was comfortable in all the more affluent and upper-class environments he was required to mix in (Monte Carlo, et al). Among other things, he was a scratch golfer and played out of the nearby Huntercombe club. This portrayal by Daniel Craig has none of that character in it; if he even went anywhere near a golf course I would be amazed. He is certainly brutal and thuggish, and kills with the kind of dispassionate necessity you would expect of a secret agent; but he lacks any of the necessary Bond sophistication and, to me, he is far more East End than All Souls College.

The history of the film series has obviously taken Bond in many different directions, and increasingly further away from the original book character with each incarnation (and yes, George Lazenby was actually a better bet than either Roger Moore or Timothy Dalton). But it remained true to the essential uniqueness of the persona, and that uniqueness dies a dismal death with Daniel Craig, because his Bond could be just about anyone with great physicality, a good body and a gun.

And, when you consider what the Bond franchise has meant over the last 44 years, this offering has virtually nothing in common with the glamour, excitement, fun and sheer all-round entertainment which has been the stock-in-trade of all 20 previous films. The acting is B-list at best (Mads Mikkelsen? Eva Green? Caterino Murino? Simon Abkarian? Jesper Christensen? Jeffrey Wright? Giancarlo Giannini? These people are absolute nobodies in film terms, and they are being passed off in the same vein as Halle Berry, Barbara Bach, Robbie Coltrane, John Cleese, Teri Hatcher, Sean Bean, Benicio del Toro, Maryam D'Abo, Christopher Walken, Grace Jones, Britt Ekland et al, all of whom had genuine star appeal) and the storyline is weak, improbable and ends with Bond falling in love - something this whole film has been at pains to tell us could never happen - at the drop of a hat. Frankly, it is just ludicrous, and loses all its new-found 'credibility'.

Casino Royale has no real momentum once they start the journey to Montenegro (another really low-budget move) and the whole card game is laboured and incomprehensible (so much so, that one of the characters - Mathis - actually has to tell us, in asides to the Bond girl, what is going on). It is also at least 30 minutes too long; everyone in our group was desperate for the film to end way before it actually did.

Of course, the likes of Richard Kiel, Moonraker, Timothy Dalton and Die Another Day were only caricatures of the original films AND the book; but they were true to what had been established over a long period of time in attempting to make Bond exciting and entertaining. This Bond lacks excitement for almost all of its 144-minute length (with the notable exceptions of the brilliant building site chase and the collapsing building in Venice) and, to my mind, there is very little entertainment in seeing someone get tortured in the gruesome way Daniel Craig is. I certainly wouldn't want to have to explain THAT to my 8 and 10-year-old boys, and I have never had a problem with them seeing Bond movies to date.

I can't help thinking this is just not a Bond film, any way you slice it. If they want to copy the Bourne franchise, fine; but give it a 15 rating and just don't call it a James Bond movie. And please, get at least some of the cast to look credible and to have some glamour value.

Back to you..........!
 
Well here's what I thought...

I thought Daniel Craigs performance was good.

I thought the indiviudal parts of the film were good but they did not flow well together to a big climax.

I thought the plot was quite complicated with too many bad guys.

I thought the character arc into becoming the Bond in the other films was very well done.

I give it 3.5 stars out of 5.
 
My hubby has always been a big Bond fan, with Sean Connery being his favourite 007 to date. I myself was never a fan. I sat through the films and enjoyed parts of them, the glamour, the settings, Pierce Brosnan was balm for the eyes. But I could never follow the plots (and I am not stupid) and found some parts to be ridiculous.

However, I have to say that I really enjoyed this latest offering. I found it to be a more straight forward, realistic storyline, I could actually follow what was happening. I thought Daniel Craig did a great job, he is a hard edged, get the job done at any expense kind of a Bond (which according to hubby is how Ian Fleming wrote the character). Yes, he doesn't quite have the suave sophistication of previous Bonds, but he did look good in a tuxedo, and he has the most beautiful blue eyes, which the camera features in quite a few close ups.

It is unfair to say that he has no humour, there where several instances when everyone in the cinema laughed out loud, including the end of the torture scene, which was probably more unpleasant for the men in the audience. We took our children aged 12 and 13 and didn't feel that the violence was any more than anything else they have seen in other films. I myself haven't seen Saw as I cannot watch things like that, but I wouldn't imagine this film to be in the same category.

All in all I came out of the cinema really surprised at how much I had enjoyed the film, and if this is the future for the Bond franchise then I say bring it on! Hubby enjoyed the film too, and said that it was refreshing that they seemed to have gone back to basics and tried to be more faithful to the original 007 character and how he was originally portrayed by Ian Fleming.
 
Hi Simon, it's also been many years since I read the Bond novels but he certainly was not Oxford educated, if memory serves me correct he was dismissed from Eton after a very short while after an affair with a maid (lucky fellow!) and then educated at Fettes in Edinburgh. I don't recall the book Bond ever being proficient in languages, that was a movie addition. The book Bond certainly had knowledge of food, wine and gambling of which there is many a mention of. He was prone to fall in love easily too, and against all odds he did actually fall for Vesper Lynd in the novel as in the movie, the book Bond also fell in love with Gala Brand in Moonraker (a character who never made it into the appalling film version), Tiffany Case in Diamonds Are Forever who moved into his Chelsea flat for a while and Tracy in OHMSS which had a memorable tragic ending in both book and film. I still feel that the Bond sophistication is a movie incarnation rather than the book version which Daniel Craig plays so well. I would also say that Bond was not a scratch golfer but played off 8 but that's a little pedantic! The Spy Who Loved Me is a real anomaly in the series as Bond does not appear until three quarters of the way through the book and then he has to deal with two Mickey Spillane style hoodlums, you can see why they scrapped the whole idea for the movie which was probably Roger Moore's best effort as Bond.

I still do not agree that the acting is B-list, the actors may be unknown but they all turn in good peformances, the Bond movies, especially in the early ones, had a great reputation for casting unknowns who would become stars eg. Ursula Andress, Robert Shaw, Gert Frobe etc.

I acknowledge what has gone before is part of lore but I think the producers have been brave to reboot the series that had become tired, the last decent one being Licensed to Kill and before that OHMSS.

Also the torture scene IS violent but blame the censor for the rating, that can be said of a lot of movies that in my opinion have lower ratings than they should have.

Casino Royale is worth another look, Simon, it certainly is not "normal Bond" as in the movies but is very much like the Bond from that novel.

Over to you............!
 
Well I really haven't decided whether I am going to see this. I'm not a big Bond fan anyway, but DBF fancies going to see it. I will reserve my judgment until then, but I have to say I don't fancy Daniel Craig much as Bond.....give me Pierce any day :goodvibes (Kathryn drifts off into a little fantasy world :lmao: )
 
Well, never let it be said that I wasn't willing to listen :teeth: I'm now re-reading Casino Royale (for the first time in about 30 years!! :eek: ) and it is quite eye-opening stuff. The new film actually follows the book quite closely in parts (quite a novelty for a Bond film!), and the section from the card game to Bond's 'rescue' from torture are incredibly close (albeit, it is set in France, not grimy Montenegro; the game is baccarat, not plain old poker; Mathis is French and not a double-agent; and Vesper Lynd is a far more glamorous character than she is portrayed in the film, IMHO).

However, the book also does raise some questions about this 'new' Bond and I'm still far from convinced by him. In the book, Bond is certainly not a novice, even though it is the first Bond novel, and he is far more focused and less ego-centric than Daniel Craig's character. More importantly, he is a refined, polished character, brought up through a sophisticated system that hones its '00' agents to a very high degree. I did, mistakenly, have him going to Oxford straight from private school (he went to Oxford to brush up on his Danish in a later novel), but he is most definitely a high-quality, multi-lingual stylist who revels in high society - and his ruthless work.

As style pointers, he drives a vintage 1933 Bentley, smokes hand-made cigarettes from a specialist shop in London (a lot!), uses a Mont Blanc pen and introduces us to the vodka-martini-shaken-not-stirred very early on (and names it the Vesper after his first dinner with Ms Lynd!!). He is also a Commander in the Royal Navy and hence far more disciplined than this 'new' version, who seems on the verge of going rogue at any moment. To my mind, that is a far cry from what we saw from Daniel Craig - although much of that is down to the writers as much as his portrayal. I still think Craig is more East End than private school, and that, in my eyes is a major failing.

All the film preamble before the card game (which I definitely found incredibly boring and WAY too long) also makes Bond out to be something of a bumbler, who is then duped by Le Chiffre, Mathis and Lynd in quick succession. Not the usual attributes for a super-spy, and it is hard to imagine anyone having any confidence in this Bond at the end.

I also maintain this is a very low-budget film Bond - none of it seems at all glamorous, the actors are largely eminently forgettable (while Craig may be great eye-candy for the female audience, I doubt many men will be at all thrilled by the women in the film - and Eva Green as Lynd is positively feeble), and the way Bond falls for Lynd is just totally improbable and implausible. The film totally died for me at that point.

Ultimately, the writers may have set out with very worthy motives to re-invent the character, but they miss the mark way too often to be credible, and the lack of at least a 15-certificate (for the torture scene) is truly woeful. The censors have certainly slipped up here, but so have the film-makers as they still undeniably set out to attract a family audience.

In the plus column, the eye-popping building site chase is one of the best in any Bond film, and Craig certainly brings a physical element to the film sadly lacking since Sean Connery - and much closer to the book Bond. But I still maintain that, overall, it is 144 minutes of fairly humdrum material, far too grimy and down to earth to be a true Bond portrayal, either from the books or the 20 previous films. Even the opening theme song was eminently forgettable!! So, no, I won't be going to see this again, and I sincerely hope they up the ante significantly for Number 22.
 
Oh Simon, you are so wrong. ;)

SimonV said:
...and that includes the fairly woeful Moonraker!
How dare you cast bad vibes on the single best Bond film - Moonraker. This, for me, is the ultimate Bond movie as it was my first at the cinema and it had Jaws, gadgets, chases, action, space shuttles and laser guns - what more could a 12 year old boy possibly want from a Bond movie? :thumbsup2

Now this is where I totally agree with you about the latest movie. I took my children to see it yesterday (11, 9 & 8 because over here it as a 12a - meaning they can watch it) and felt utterly disgusted. I completely agree with you about the new film; it is an utter travesty compared to the Bond movies of the past. Even the building site chase scene is nothing special - I've seen enough clips of building jumpers on the internet that are as good, if not better, than this. As you say the film is based on card game but, if like me, you haven't got a clue on how to play poker you don't know what the heck is going on in the game. I deliberately haven't learned how to play cards as my theroy is that if I don't know, I can't play and therfore I won't lose any money!

Moving onto the violence, the torture scene was way over-the-top for a 12a, as was the scene where the girl drowned. I had my 8 year old burying his head in my shirt when they were going on and as a parent, I felt sick that I had subjected my children to that. The film classification whould be a 15 - not a 12a. Had I read your review beforehand (I wish I had) I wouldn't have taken my children. As it was, I took them in blind hoping for the humour, action and sheer fun of previous Bond movies. Can you imagine ITV wanting to show this Bond (including the torture scene) on a Boxing Day afternoon? I seriously doubt that will happen - it's a post watershed movie for this scene alone.

Finally, my company has arranged free screenings of CR this Wednesday which I was going to. I'll still goto the the theatre, but as soon as I'm past the ushers I'm off to watch another movie, one with more humour, class and action than Bond: ******* 2. Yes, I'd rather watch people being rammed by bulls or lighting fireworks from their nether-regions rather than submit to 2+ hours of Bond Boredom.

Oh ... and don't worry about my 8 year old. He's not had nightmares. When I asked him what was the best bit, he replied. "The Lynx advert before the film." As Spike from Tom & Jerry used to say to his son .... "That's ma Boy!"
 
*Mental Note: Do not buy Bond DVD for Simon next Christmas*

AndRu, while I did enjoy much of the film, I have to agree with you in that I cringed through the whole torture scene, knowing I had brought my 14 year old to see it. Even at his age, with all the video and game-system violence he's seen (ugh!!), that scene was too much for him and he said so, loudly and often.

While I personally will not discuss Bond with Simon any more ( ;) ), we did talk about it with my brother over Thanksgiving. He liked the film (with a few exceptions, including the torture scene). That is, UNTIL he and Simon talked about it. After they were done he said, "Well, I guess I don't like it as much as I did before we talked about it!" :teeth:

Then we all went to Borders and both Simon and my brother bought the book. :rolleyes:
 





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