The Logistics of Fastpass Availability

[rexmism]

Hi everyone,
I'd be interested in a dialogue about the available times of fastpasses and how this works.
In preparation for my fastpass selection day this Wednesday, I've been looking at Touringplan's available fastpass data each day, in a somewhat futile exercise to see what times I would pick if this is what I had to choose from.
Anyway, it became quickly clear after viewing the same dates over multiple days, that Disney is not showing all available times at once. As a real life example - on 6/4, Thunder Mountain had an available time of 10:55. Later on, that time was gone, replaced by 11:00, which had previously not been there. After a day or two, 11:00 was gone, and 10:55 was back, and then the following day, 10:55 was again gone, and 11:05 was showing. The most interesting attraction I've happened to observe is Haunted Mansion, which, in the last 10 or so days since it first came into view on TP, has shown 10 different FP start times in the hour between 11:55am and 12:55pm. Typically only 2 or 3 of these show on any given day, and only 2 of them currently show. While most FP times I've tracked have seen some gentle change, this one has been the wildest that I've noticed.
In any case, I'm just wondering what people's thoughts and experiences are on this. Related to this, are you able to force FP's hand to show you available times it might not otherwise show by using conflicting FP's elsewhere? For example, say I want to book Enchanted Tales, followed by 7D, followed by Small World. Belle has 9:50, 7D has 10:45, Small World has 11:55. These times obviously don't work together. But if I book Bell and Small World, might it show me a 10:50 or 10:55 for 7D that it wasn't showing otherwise? Or is it a matter of a time you want later somehow showing up more by chance? How much are you able to do to get that exact time you're wanting?
Thanks for any thoughts!

 

[Klayfish]

That has nothing to do with Disney not showing all available times at once. To my knowledge, they do. I think what you're seeing has much more to do with people adding/dropping FP+. This happens pretty often, especially the "day of". The FP+ system winds up being very fluid, what's available will change literally second to second, and it's got nothing to do with WDW not showing or releasing all FP+. It's guests changing plans. When I'm looking for a 4th, 5th, FP+, one moment I'll see 3:10pm. Then the next it's gone and 5:45pm shows up. Then the next time I check, 3:10 may show up again and 5:45pm is gone, but 6:25pm is there.

 

[loves to dive]

As Klayfish said,it's just a case of people cancelling them. I can't tell you how many times I've had a FP for something maybe 15 min. from now but the line only be 10 or 15 min. wait so I just got in line instead of trying to find something else to do in that time and cancelled the FP. It actually happens more often than not with us.

 

[rexmism]

I get how much things are changing nearer to the time and especially the day of, but I'm talking 60+ days out. If Disney was showing ALL available times that far out, I'd expect to look out as far as I can, currently 6/11, and see at least some attractions with at least 30 or 40 choices. And examples of several choices within the same hour. But the most I ever see for MK on this 13 hour day, is 24, and there are consistently 2 times per hour shown. While there's no way to disprove it for sure, I refuse to believe that all the FP times not showing now that will show tomorrow or future dates are all booked up now.
Barnstormer example for 6/11:
9:25am‑10:25am · 9:55am‑10:55am · 10:25am‑11:25am · 10:55am‑11:55am · 11:25am‑12:25pm · 11:55am‑12:55pm · 12:00pm‑1:00pm · 12:30pm‑1:30pm · 1:00pm‑2:00pm · 1:30pm‑2:30pm · 2:00pm‑3:00pm · 2:30pm‑3:30pm · 3:00pm‑4:00pm · 3:30pm‑4:30pm · 4:00pm‑5:00pm · 4:30pm‑5:30pm · 5:00pm‑6:00pm · 5:30pm‑6:30pm · 6:00pm‑7:00pm · 6:30pm‑7:30pm · 7:00pm‑8:00pm · 7:30pm‑8:30pm · 8:00pm‑9:00pm · 8:30pm‑9:30pm
I'm 99.9% sure some different post 6pm times will show eventually, and there's no way they're all booked now and just canceled later. My theory isn't that Disney withholds FPs for a certain date. It's that they won't show them all at the same time. For example, if 6pm is all gone, they'll now show 6:05. I would guess they do this to try to keep things simpler, rather than giving you possibly over 100 different times to choose from. People like me would like to just see them all, but other people might get overloaded. If anyone sees even 50 different times show up at once, I'll consider that they just show them all, but I really don't think so.

 

[Klayfish]

I'm not really sure what you mean. They show all available times for a given ride on a given day when you search. If all 6pm is gone, then it'll show next available...whether it's 6:05 or 7:35

 

[PrincessWithABlaster]

I think you are correct that it doesn't show you all available times. I think this because it's holding a time for you. While the time is showing for you, it's not showing for someone else. And you have some time to actually pick from the offerings (I assume there's a time out but I haven't hit it yet). So when you refresh, the time you had available might now be showing for someone else and something that was shown to them (but not taken by them) is now available to you. I don't think there's a way to force it since it comes down the the milliseconds of difference between when your refresh was processed and when someone else's is. Luck of the draw. But if you keep refreshing different times will come up. This is more obvious the day off when, as @Klayfish says, there is a lot more changing going on.

Edited because I meant to add that there is also the addition confusing factor of people changing their reservations too. So it could be either that someone cancelled a reservation or it was showing the only availability at that time to someone else.

 

[hiroMYhero]

I believe they are refining what they show as “available.” I have a 30-day Window right now and checking for Barnstormer and other less in demand rides, the system gives me a time selection for the 9am hour, one selection for the 10a hour, and one for the 11:00a hour. If I choose evening, it’s the same: one slot per hour for three consecutive hours.

If a time were selected and confirmed, then when Modifying, more times will appear.

 

[rexmism]

I believe they are refining what they show as “available.” I have a 30-day Window right now and checking for Barnstormer and other less in demand rides, the system gives me a time selection for the 9am hour, one selection for the 10a hour, and one for the 11:00a hour. If I choose evening, it’s the same: one slot per hour for three consecutive hours.

If a time were selected and confirmed, then when Modifying, more times will appear.

Thanks for confirming this! What sorts of times are you seeing when you modify? More than two per hour? I can't speak to what the MDE site or app actually show, since I can't get fastpasses yet, so I can only go by what TP shows, and I don't know how they get this data, but I know those times can't be all there is. If it was, it would mean a few things.
Every FP time that shows up later, which did not show before, was previously all booked. That's just too many FPs being booked up 60+ days out. Again, I never see more than 2 for each hour (see the example above). I could buy that the only FP times for Barnstormer between 2pm - 2:59pm are 2:00 and 2:30, but I know this isn't true because the more days I observe, the more different times I see appear. Maybe there's not a separate FP window starting every 5 minutes, but there are definitely more than 2 per hour, as is evidenced by the Haunted Mansion observation I've done. All of these times have shown up in the last 10 days for 6/4:
11:55(6x), 12:00(2x), 12:05(3x), 12:10(1x), 12:15(1x), 12:20(1x), 12:30(4x), 12:35(1x), 12:55(1x)
That's a lot of variance, with only 4 out of 13 missing 5-minute intervals within the hour. The fact that never more than 2 per hour are shown alone is too coincidental for all times to be appearing, let alone that fact that it would also mean that only 2 of these 9 time slots are left at over 60 days out. No way are there only ~25% remaining. The only conclusion is that not all times are shown here. The question is, is MDE doing the same thing? To answer that, start by seeing if you ever see more than two times in the same hour, ie. 10:00, 10:30, 10:45. I do see things like 9:55, 10:05, 10:30, which is within the same hour, but not the same... is there a term for it? Like calendar year, but hour. Calendar hour.

 

[PrincessWithABlaster]

Thanks for confirming this! What sorts of times are you seeing when you modify? More than two per hour? I can't speak to what the MDE site or app actually show, since I can't get fastpasses yet, so I can only go by what TP shows, and I don't know how they get this data, but I know those times can't be all there is. If it was, it would mean a few things.
Every FP time that shows up later, which did not show before, was previously all booked. That's just too many FPs being booked up 60+ days out. Again, I never see more than 2 for each hour (see the example above). I could buy that the only FP times for Barnstormer between 2pm - 2:59pm are 2:00 and 2:30, but I know this isn't true because the more days I observe, the more different times I see appear. Maybe there's not a separate FP window starting every 5 minutes, but there are definitely more than 2 per hour, as is evidenced by the Haunted Mansion observation I've done. All of these times have shown up in the last 10 days for 6/4:
11:55(6x), 12:00(2x), 12:05(3x), 12:10(1x), 12:15(1x), 12:20(1x), 12:30(4x), 12:35(1x), 12:55(1x)
That's a lot of variance, with only 4 out of 13 missing 5-minute intervals within the hour. The fact that never more than 2 per hour are shown alone is too coincidental for all times to be appearing, let alone that fact that it would also mean that only 2 of these 9 time slots are left at over 60 days out. No way are there only ~25% remaining. The only conclusion is that not all times are shown here. The question is, is MDE doing the same thing? To answer that, start by seeing if you ever see more than two times in the same hour, ie. 10:00, 10:30, 10:45. I do see things like 9:55, 10:05, 10:30, which is within the same hour, but not the same... is there a term for it? Like calendar year, but hour. Calendar hour.

Bear in mind that the TP availability is only a snapshot in time. It was really better suited to the days when you did 4th FPs at kiosks. FP availably literally changes every second now. I also found it really didn't help me much even then because it's looking for a party of one and looking for 5 gives you very different results.

Yes in MDE you can see multiple times in an hour. You have to click the attraction to get more visible times or pick one and modify. Either way will let you see more options. But I also agree with the previous comments that for low demand rides it's probably not going to show you every available time in each hour segment because that would be way too many. Most people don't care about 10:00 versus 10:05. To most people it is the same. It's only an issue to us crazy, down to the minute, spreadsheet planners on the DISboards.

 

[hiroMYhero]

What sorts of times are you seeing when you modify? More than two per hour?

Yes.

Remember, when you book a FP, your FP window is 80 minutes: 5 minutes grace period before and 15 minutes grace after.

If you are planning exact ride times, say 1:15 for BTMRR, you can choose any window with a start time between 12:00 and 1:20.

 

[Klayfish]

I believe they are refining what they show as “available.” I have a 30-day Window right now and checking for Barnstormer and other less in demand rides, the system gives me a time selection for the 9am hour, one selection for the 10a hour, and one for the 11:00a hour. If I choose evening, it’s the same: one slot per hour for three consecutive hours.

If a time were selected and confirmed, then when Modifying, more times will appear.

Ah, got it. But doesn't it still show you everything available? From my recollection of it, when we go to book FP+ initially it'll show me the closest available times to the time slot I picked??

 

[hiroMYhero]

Ah, got it. But doesn't it still show you everything available? From my recollection of it, when we go to book FP+ initially it'll show me the closest available times to the time slot I picked??

No, it only gives a limited selection. But, more times appear when Modifying a confirmed FP.

I confirmed a 10:00 Barnstormer and when Modifying, the system then gave me 10:20, 10:45 etc.

I do see what you’re saying by choosing a specific time such as 10:00a rather than “Morning.” The system then gives me times approximately 30 minutes apart. Then if I Confirm and Modify, I see a different selection of times. This is all thanks to @rteetz who is linked to my MDX...his AP is allowing my window to open up for 30 days rather than a paltry 7...so his AP is getting a good workout while he’s working a Brewers game!

 

[PrincessWithABlaster]

No, it only gives a limited selection. But, more times appear when Modifying a confirmed FP.

I confirmed a 10:00 Barnstormer and when Modifying, the system then gave me 10:20, 10:45 etc.

I do see what you’re saying by choosing a specific time such as 10:00a rather than “Morning.” The system then gives me times approximately 30 minutes apart. Then if I Confirm and Modify, I see a different selection of times. This is all thanks to @rteetz who is linked to my MDX...his AP is allowing my window to open up for 30 days rather than a paltry 7...so his AP is getting a good workout while he’s working a Brewers game!

Are you clicking on the attraction you want when you are shown the whole list of attractions with available times? The whole list only shows you 3 or 4 times per attraction but if you click on the attraction name, it shows you a lot more (unless I'm really misremembering - I have all my FPs booked so I can't double check for making one for a fresh FP).

 

[hiroMYhero]

Are you clicking on the attraction you want when you are shown the whole list of attractions with available times? The whole list only shows you 3 or 4 times per attraction but if you click on the attraction name, it shows you a lot more (unless I'm really misremembering - I have all my FPs booked so I can't double check for making one for a fresh FP).

You are correct. I usually only book for high priority rides and have to Change Party for Guest Passes so grab and Modify to ensure I have something.

 

[BrookieM2001]

You also need to consider that different party sizes change things. You may be searching for a party of 4, but there’s only a party of 3 available at 10:35, so it doesn’t show you that. However, someone somewhere drops their 10:30 FP for 3 and that suddenly May open up the opportunity to book 4 for 10:35. Who knows the parameters that Disney uses to make these windows and whether they allow some wiggle room to make FPs available to larger parties this way. There’s just so much fluidity in the system that wanting to see every available time is really tricky with party size changes and cancellations and hour extensions and whatnot. Super complex.

 

[PrincessWithABlaster]

You also need to consider that different party sizes change things. You may be searching for a party of 4, but there’s only a party of 3 available at 10:35, so it doesn’t show you that. However, someone somewhere drops their 10:30 FP for 3 and that suddenly May open up the opportunity to book 4 for 10:35. Who knows the parameters that Disney uses to make these windows and whether they allow some wiggle room to make FPs available to larger parties this way. There’s just so much fluidity in the system that wanting to see every available time is really tricky with party size changes and cancellations and hour extensions and whatnot. Super complex.

Yes, that too.

I've wondered how close an FP window has to be to be offered either when adding in another person or offering it to a larger party. I'm pretty sure I have made FPs for 3, then grabbed an overlapping time for two that was 5 mins off and had the system combine them into one 5 person reservation. So I wonder if there is availability for 3 at 10:00 and 2 at 10:05, does the system offer 10:00 to someone looking for a party of 5? I'm guessing not, but since I've seen them combined automatically into one reservation, maybe it is that smart.

 

[Bete]

Your 60 day mark is someone else's 59 day mark, and someone else's 58 day and so forth. So, you have 60 days worth of people changing and rearranging their plans up to the day of.

One strategy to get different times is to refresh your page. It changes that fast.

I'm convinced Disney is not playing any games with their fastpasses and holding back on availability.

If you don't get your exact choice of your first three fastpasses then take what you can get and keep tweaking as you can. By the time of our trip I was able to get exactly what we wanted. I was tweaking up to two weeks before our trip.

 

[BrookieM2001]

Your 60 day mark is someone else's 59 day mark, and someone else's 58 day and so forth. So, you have 60 days worth of people changing and rearranging their plans up to the day of.

One strategy to get different times is to refresh your page. It changes that fast.

I'm convinced Disney is not playing any games with their fastpasses and holding back on availability.

If you don't get your exact choice of your first three fastpasses then take what you can get and keep tweaking as you can. By the time of our trip I was able to get exactly what we wanted. I was tweaking up to two weeks before our trip.

For sure. In preparation for our last trip, I went online every night usually and tweaked times and plans, switching things around A TON, which would’ve opened availability for the times I discarded. So many of us make changes constantly because we are trying to get closer and closer to the times we actually want, combining times for our party that I originally couldn’t get together. I will probably start the same thing next Friday at our 60 day Mark, when hopefully we will be able to get those last couple ADR times changes to what we want which will likely affect our FP selections as well.

 

[disneyvoice]

I just think it's the system only showing a certain "portion" of available times in any given hour. For example, let's say I want Spaceship Earth at noon. The system at first shows that the earliest available time after 12:00 is 12:15. So I choose that 12:15 time. But then I "modify" my Spaceship Earth time and suddenly 12:05 appears. No the system didn't originally show me the 12:05, but it did show up the second time. If you consider the fact that FP times are issued in 5 minute increments, there is no way the system is ever going to show EVERY available option - especially when there is still quite a bit of availability. I think in that situation the system tries to balance out the times so not everyone is scheduling a FP for exactly on the hour, half hour, etc. When there are only a handful of times remaining, then you are likely to see all available options. I will add that each time I modify my FP time, additional options show up. And there are also people changing their FP times ALL the time - yes, even at exactly 60 days out. It's very common for me to keep rescheduling my FPs on day 60 until I get as close to my "perfect" time as possible. Then I typically continue to tweak things leading up to our arrival.

 

[rexmism]

I just think it's the system only showing a certain "portion" of available times in any given hour.

I agree, this is what I'm saying. Not that Disney ever holds back times, just that they don't want to show you ALL of them because there could be so many.
When you click on the button to view more times, you never seem to get any more than two choices per hour. Here's an example I found of Kali River:
I know availability can change at any time, including at 60+ days out, but as far as I have been able to see, the time selection options (like the one above) NEVER give you more than two times per hour. There are probably going to be more times available than what's shown, which you might see when you click modify. I can't find any example of that online, though, so I'll have to wait until Wednesday to see if that shows you more than two choices per hour...