The condition of thr WDW monorails

[beer dave]

I agree completely but if they went longer which I believe they did when they added the trains in the 90s the contemporary platform wouldn't have to be lengthened. If it was wider than it would be but I don't think it would ever become wider.

Like you said a simple reupholstery would do the job.

I don't know this for a fact, but I have spent alot of time looking at the monorail entry side of the contemporary from a BLT room..... and I am fairly sure the openings were modified at least in height when they changed trains. You can see where the concrete was cut away from the stair landings above... From a builders point of view, I don't see how they got away with it, since the removed pieces were form and pour concrete beams supporting the landings.

 

[KYMickey]

3. With the steady decrease in the costs to build a monorail system, it is not outside the realm of possibility that the monorails could be expanded. Buses are getting more expensive to buy, operate and in labor.

I believe that in the next 10 years you will hear of a major expansion in either a the monorails or a light rail/pod system tied (with 2 WDW stations) into the train from MCO or even a monorail form MCO to Orlando and Disney.
AKK

Agree 100%
I don't believe the construction and ongoing operating costs are as high as many people speculate. Certainly not the zillions of dollars per mile that some will compare to municipal systems which spare absolutely no cost and massively over build.

WDW owns the right of way, so land acquisition isn't an issue. The current track system has been fully depreciated decades ago as well the current trains. And if you really look at the construction of the beams and supports, they are surprisingly light weight when you compare them to.... municipal systems.

In fact, the supports don't appear to comprise more than 100 yards of concrete and the beams are fabricated off-site much like.....well, I'll spare the often regurgitated analysis but consider that in 1972 the widely publicized cost figures for the WDW monorail infrastructure was $1M per mile. Accounting for inflation one would expect that to be roughly $6M per mile today. That's almost a rounding error for Disney, they spent more than that to put RFID's on drink cups to make sure we don't get another 10 cents worth of soda.

My point is I don't believe WDW hasn't improved/expanded the monorail system due to cost. I think it's more an issue of profit - it's hard to argue that the monorail MAKES money. It has inherent nostalgic and coolness value, for sure, and while the pencil pushers at Disney haven't put an ROI on that I'm confident they understand what WDW would be like without it.

You have obviously have no comprehension about what it takes to build those pylons (supports) and the track. The $1M per mile that you are quoting from 1972 was also a complete fantasy. The monorail system built in Las Vegas was probably the most recent large-scale monorail built in the United States. It didn't require right-of-way because it goes down the center of the streets. Also the ground in Las Vegas is much more suited for construction of the supports than the ground in Orlando. In Las Vegas the cost of construction was almost $500 million per mile! Now admittedly the cost to build WDW would probably be lower than that but I'm sure it would be at least $50 million per mile or more.

In order to make the supports stable each one would require multiple bored caissons quite deep, probably 50 feet or more. Each of these within the field with a rebar cage and concrete. They would then be tied together with a mat foundation and the support would be built on top of that. The track obviously is fabricated off-site but it's not an off-the-shelf item. Each piece of it is custom-built with high tensile strength concrete, metal wear plates and probably post tensioned reinforcement. That's not even included the requirement for electrification, switches and controls!

Almost everyone would certainly love to see the monorail system expanded but in reality I think the best we can hope for is that the present system is maintained!

 

[JoWiJo]

Agree 100%

I don't believe the construction and ongoing operating costs are as high as many people speculate. Certainly not the zillions of dollars per mile that some will compare to municipal systems which spare absolutely no cost and massively over build.

WDW owns the right of way, so land acquisition isn't an issue. The current track system has been fully depreciated decades ago as well the current trains. And if you really look at the construction of the beams and supports, they are surprisingly light weight when you compare them to.... municipal systems.

In fact, the supports don't appear to comprise more than 100 yards of concrete and the beams are fabricated off-site much like.....well, I'll spare the often regurgitated analysis but consider that in 1972 the widely publicized cost figures for the WDW monorail infrastructure was $1M per mile. Accounting for inflation one would expect that to be roughly $6M per mile today. That's almost a rounding error for Disney, they spent more than that to put RFID's on drink cups to make sure we don't get another 10 cents worth of soda.

My point is I don't believe WDW hasn't improved/expanded the monorail system due to cost. I think it's more an issue of profit - it's hard to argue that the monorail MAKES money. It has inherent nostalgic and coolness value, for sure, and while the pencil pushers at Disney haven't put an ROI on that I'm confident they understand what WDW would be like without it.

I'm inclined to agree with you. But I must qualify my statement in that I don't think any of us truly have a good idea as to what the actual cost would be. I've seen the cost issue come up in other threads and people would bring up the monorail in Las Vegas. The thing is, eminent domain issues aside, there would still be unique construction issues for each system strictly because of geography: Climate, the ground supporting the pylons, politics, etc.

Similarly, I've seen estimates on the low end based on systems abroad. As above, those same elements come into play in figuring the cost of a monorail, plus there's often a drastically different economy where the US dollar is still comparatively strong. So by looking at other monorail systems recently built, we really aren't comparing apples to apples, we're comparing them to oranges (which, to be honest, do share some similarities to apples -- but are obviously different).

That being said, my guess is that a new system wouldn't be as cost prohibitive as some presume, but it wouldn't be cheap either. And as you (and others in the past) have said, whatever the cost is, it wouldn't bring in any new revenue and the cost outweighs the benefits, and that is the real force behind the monorails.

 

[Josh Hendy]

Agree 100%

I don't believe the construction and ongoing operating costs are as high as many people speculate. Certainly not the zillions of dollars per mile that some will compare to municipal systems which spare absolutely no cost and massively over build.

WDW owns the right of way, so land acquisition isn't an issue. The current track system has been fully depreciated decades ago as well the current trains. And if you really look at the construction of the beams and supports, they are surprisingly light weight when you compare them to.... municipal systems.

...

Ouch, you've touched a sore spot with me. My own medium-sized city has started building a "light rail" pipe dream ... err, transit megaproject. Zillions of dollars is about right. I think it's going to bankrupt the city in the end. If they aren't bankrupted by zillions of dollars in pension shortfalls first. But why worry? That's what state/provincial and federal government bailouts are for!

 

[rteetz]

I don't know this for a fact, but I have spent alot of time looking at the monorail entry side of the contemporary from a BLT room..... and I am fairly sure the openings were modified at least in height when they changed trains. You can see where the concrete was cut away from the stair landings above... From a builders point of view, I don't see how they got away with it, since the removed pieces were form and pour concrete beams supporting the landings.

Modifications would have to be made in pretty much any situation with new monorails unless the new ones were exact replicas of the old ones but I don't see that happening. Obviously you can only go to a certain extent when modifying these platforms for new monorails.

 

[rteetz]

Why do I get a mental picture of the poor people in the "Caboose" sticking out of the Contemporary like a tail. Longer trains need longer platforms too! Let the Caboose people exit too if they want.

The end wouldn't be sticking out you would just pull in farther the monorail isn't the length of the contemporary.

 

[circus4u]

The end wouldn't be sticking out you would just pull in farther the monorail isn't the length of the contemporary.

But I am pretty sure it is the length of the loading platforms at the ticket and transportation center and in Epcot. Not sure about Magic Kingdom.

 

[beer dave]

Modifications would have to be made in pretty much any situation with new monorails unless the new ones were exact replicas of the old ones but I don't see that happening. Obviously you can only go to a certain extent when modifying these platforms for new monorails.

Not exact replicas, just the same height and width. (or close) Ever replace your dish washer?

 

[Laketravis]

You have obviously have no comprehension about what it takes to build those pylons (supports) and the track.

Actually, I do. But thanks for your input.

 

[beer dave]

You have obviously have no comprehension about what it takes to build those pylons (supports) and the track. -built with high tensile strength concrete, metal wear plates and probably post tensioned reinforcement.

Concrete is rated by compresive strength, not tensile... the steel reinforcement has the tensile.... and it would be PRE tensioned.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

You have obviously have no comprehension about what it takes to build those pylons (supports) and the track. The $1M per mile that you are quoting from 1972 was also a complete fantasy. The monorail system built in Las Vegas was probably the most recent large-scale monorail built in the United States. It didn't require right-of-way because it goes down the center of the streets. Also the ground in Las Vegas is much more suited for construction of the supports than the ground in Orlando. In Las Vegas the cost of construction was almost $500 million per mile! Now admittedly the cost to build WDW would probably be lower than that but I'm sure it would be at least $50 million per mile or more.

In order to make the supports stable each one would require multiple bored caissons quite deep, probably 50 feet or more. Each of these within the field with a rebar cage and concrete. They would then be tied together with a mat foundation and the support would be built on top of that. The track obviously is fabricated off-site but it's not an off-the-shelf item. Each piece of it is custom-built with high tensile strength concrete, metal wear plates and probably post tensioned reinforcement. That's not even included the requirement for electrification, switches and controls!

Almost everyone would certainly love to see the monorail system expanded but in reality I think the best we can hope for is that the present system is maintained!

http://monorails.org/tMspages/HowMuch.html

Please note the above article. The Las Vegas system, including trains and stations were $88 mil per mile and was known for outrageous cost over runs and corruption.

I would also point out you will notice the reductions in costs as the years have gone by.

I would also point out that the systems here are custom designed and the WDW system has already done the up dated engineering and for you, FYI.....the pylons in WDW are set on pilings, with surface cassions about 15' deep.


Track sections are as mentioned already engineered and the molds and set ups are rather easy to set up for casting right at WDW.

I am not saying a extended monorail system would be cheap, I was only pointing out that with the advances in engineering and building and reduced costs , it not impossible.

Personally I think any expansion would more likely be a unmanned pod system/light rail.


AKK

 

[rteetz]

But I am pretty sure it is the length of the loading platforms at the ticket and transportation center and in Epcot. Not sure about Magic Kingdom.

Yes they would have to make modifications to those

 

[rteetz]

Not exact replicas, just the same height and width. (or close) Ever replace your dish washer?

Exactly a nice interior upgrade would be nice tho.

 

[peabody58]

I can't be the only one that has to stop what I'm doing in Epcot to watch the train glide by overhead.

Ditto on that, and my newest monorail love activity -wait for it!!

Sitting on the balconey of my 6th floor VGF 1 BR villa sipping my coffee and waving to the monorails with my Mickey hand on. So many happy kids faces and wave backs!! Best room view we have ever had!!

 

[truck1]

I don't know this for a fact, but I have spent alot of time looking at the monorail entry side of the contemporary from a BLT room..... and I am fairly sure the openings were modified at least in height when they changed trains. You can see where the concrete was cut away from the stair landings above... From a builders point of view, I don't see how they got away with it, since the removed pieces were form and pour concrete beams supporting the landings.

When the new Mark VI trains were delivered and started testing, they had a oops moment. The doors on the original Mark Vs opened horizontally. No problem. The MarkVI doors drop down then open. Problem. They were hitting the platforms. So most platforms were reconfigured in someway shape or form for the new trains.

But I am pretty sure it is the length of the loading platforms at the ticket and transportation center and in Epcot. Not sure about Magic Kingdom.

The Current Mark VI trains, area all the optimum length for the existing platforms. The exception being the Contemporary. The way things are designed and set now, in the case of a hurricane, 4 trains are taken to the Contemorary, and placed nose to tail with the nose of the front train and the tail of the back train just about touching the hurricane doors. One side of the doors are closed and the first train is edged up to the doors. Then the second train is brought in and almost touching the first. then the back doors are closed. This process is repeated on the opposite track. The remaining trains are left at the roundhouse. The problem is that there are 12 bays but 2 bays (the furthest left or Bay 1 and farthest right Bay 12) are taken for the tow tractors and work platforms.

If and when new trains are delivered, Id hazard a guess and say that the trains themselves will look like the current trains, but the electronics side will be highly updated.

 

[CptnSkippy]

You are correct, the MK VI trains were larger. There is a picture of MK IV monorail blue with cardboard cutouts which did not fit through the air doors at the contemporary.

 

[faneuil]

At the TTC yesterday morning, I had a great conversation with one of the mechanics for the monorails. It was all chit chat really, but it turned into a funny moment.

We were reminiscing about how the doors used to close, etc and he said, "These trains are ancient." lol. Then he goes, "It's a good day today, we haven't broken down." It was 9:30am.

I told him not to jinx the system as monorail coral left the station for the MK. Few minutes later, we all piled into monorail red. 10 minutes later, we all piled out of monorail red - because monorail coral had broken down!

He just looked and us and said, "You called it!"

Anyway, all of that to say, they're in need of an upgrade, and I'm not an engineer, but it appears it's a lot of expensive work to get them really slick again.

Oh, and does anyone else just hate the peach they picked? All the other colors are bold and nice. Peach just looks, well, dirty.

 

[marauder]

I still miss the "slam, slam, slam, slam" of the old Mark IV monorails. Not worrying about sitting with butts in your face, everyone seated, etc. Yes they didn't hold as many passengers, but the passengers were more comfortable (as long as the air conditioning was working.)

 

[MonorailCentral]

I lived slamming the dis if the Mark IVs, though you always had to be hyper-aware of kids' fingers as you were reaching down the train. They loved to stick their hands in the doorway.