The CMs were Worried About Alligator Problem

[Aurora0427]

So is Mike Hamilton a custodian at the GF or the Polynesian? Which is it?

 

[oceanmarina]

I don't think anyone is saying they shouldn't have bought the land. Every year, week, day, things change. Nature changes, the property changes, people in charge change, etc. With those changes certain precautions should have been implemented. Especially after the other attack in the 80s. Once that attack occurred the threat of alligators atleast warranted a sign and fencing.

No gator signs after someone was attacked in the 80's? Just saying......

As the article said; In 1986, an alligator bit a boy at a pond at Disney's Fort Wilderness campground. The boy suffered knee and thigh injuries. The parents later sued the resort, alleging Disney failed to warn visitors."


That being said, after even one incident like the one that happened in the 80's I believe it was negligent on Disney's part not to include SPECIFIC sign warnings - No Swimming no way implies - watch out as your child could get bit by an alligator at the water's edge!!! No swimming also does not imply you can't walk in the water. I predict a multi-million dollar lawsuit in the making - not that all the money in the world could comfort that poor family - their pain and loss will never end. Negligence - yes especially considering how nearby non-Disney hotels had specific sign warnings for alligators & snakes. Sorry, you can't expect out of state or out of country guests to know about these types of dangers.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

As the article said; In 1986, an alligator bit a boy at a pond at Disney's Fort Wilderness campground. The boy suffered knee and thigh injuries. The parents later sued the resort, alleging Disney failed to warn visitors."


That being said, after even one incident like the one that happened in the 80's I believe it was negligent on Disney's part not to include SPECIFIC sign warnings - No Swimming no way implies - watch out as your child could get bit by an alligator at the water's edge!!! No swimming also does not imply you can't walk in the water. I predict a multi-million dollar lawsuit in the making - not that all the money in the world could comfort that poor family - their pain and loss will never end. Negligence - yes especially considering how nearby non-Disney hotels had specific sign warnings for alligators & snakes. Sorry, you can't expect out of state or out of country guests to know about these types of dangers.

I expect people to be responsible for themselves at all times...no matter what there surroundings are.

Especially with the wealth of information available in a millisecond via touchscreen

 

[JenLT]

Additionally, how many people believe it is safe simply because Disney encourages the use of the beaches (did they create them too?), has walkways right along the water, etc..? I always thought if it wasn't safe, Disney would take precautions which would include telling you of the danger. Now you really have to wonder - practically every resort has tons of water and you walk right next to it in the evening coming back from the parks. People will tell you that alligators are slow on land but I've been watching some youtube videos of them and they're not that slow. There's also one of an alligator climbing a six foot fence. They can come right out of any of the waterways and lakes at any time they want. If I'd realized it, I would never have been standing by the water.

 

[JenLT]

I expect people to be responsible for themselves at all times...no matter what there surroundings are.

Especially with the wealth of information available in a millisecond via touchscreen

Do you research whether or not the rides at Disney are safe, or their buses, or monorail, or their ferries, or any other offering they have? I bet most people do not because there is an assumption of safety in services offered. By making a beach, having boat shows on the water, putting chairs and hammocks on the beach, selling buckets, placing playground on beaches, they have made their beaches an attraction. Yet they never warn you of the potential danger. Yes, it is very rare, but that won't comfort that family and I certainly don't want my child to be one of the rare instances of a tragedy.

At first I really thought it was a tragic accident and no one is to blame, but the more I read, the more I think Disney is at fault. It would not have been difficult to put up a sign warning you or telling you when you check in that the waterways have alligators and its illegal to feed them.

 

[southerngirl528]

Better signage with the silhouettes of gators and snakes can't but help and I agree the signs should probably be that specific since so many people seem not to know that there are alligators in the southern U.S.. But as I've said a couple of times in similar threads I have personally watched visitors in Celebration stand right next to a sign stating that it is against Florida LAW to feed or harass alligators, and do BOTH those things. LITERALLY standing right next to the sign. Anyone that thinks better signage will prevent anything ever, ever happening again are sadly misguided because people are people. And some people think signs do not apply to them.

Same with signs stating not to feed the birds. People do it anyway. Ever sat and watched one of those avian pirates otherwise known as seagulls swoop down and take a whole hotdog off of someone's plate? It happens because they have been fed by people.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Do you research whether or not the rides at Disney are safe, or their buses, or monorail, or their ferries, or any other offering they have? I bet most people do not because there is an assumption of safety in services offered. By making a beach, having boat shows on the water, putting chairs and hammocks on the beach, selling buckets, placing playground on beaches, they have made their beaches an attraction. Yet they never warn you of the potential danger. Yes, it is very rare, but that won't comfort that family and I certainly don't want my child to be one of the rare instances of a tragedy.

At first I really thought it was a tragic accident and no one is to blame, but the more I read, the more I think Disney is at fault. It would not have been difficult to put up a sign warning you or telling you when you check in that the waterways have alligators and its illegal to feed them.

I don't disagree with your premise...human nature is gonna let your guard down with what they sell and how they sell it.

But that's a Disney and a consumer problem...

They charge an exhorbinant amount...people assume that "covers" everything

 

[disneynutz]

We can go back and forth but in the end it doesn't really matter what we think, only what Disney, their legal team, insurance company, and the poor family of the little boy and their legal team thinks.

Bill

 

[BigAlsGal]

It just sucks. To see Disney had their chance back in the 80's to fix the problem (without a fatality) and just....didn't. It was such an easy fix. A few signs. Sigh.....

I love Disney with all my heart but man.....dropped.....the.....ball.

 

[JenLT]

We can go back and forth but in the end it doesn't really matter what we think, only what Disney, their legal team, insurance company, and the poor family of the little boy and their legal team thinks.

Bill

And possibly a judge and jury. But you're right anything we say here is personal opinion.
I'm just trying to think of the resort with least water and safer feeling walkways. Right now Disney doesn't feel as magical.

 

[Her Dotness]

I think a significant factor in this terrible death was that the family is from Nebraska where lakes do not include lethal animals able to snatch a toddler at water's edge.

I grew up in Northwest Kansas just 15 miles below the Nebraska line. My family often went to lakes in both states. The most worrisome things along the edge of lakes in that part of the country would be sharp rocks, broken glass or junk metal that might cut your bare foot.

At those lakes, swimming outside designated areas means no lifeguard and a risk of drowning if you step off an unanticipated dropoff. That's about it. Fear of a child's playing and wading at water's edge while supervised by a parent is unheard of.

People can argue until the Nebraska cows come home that "EVERYbody knows there are alligators in Florida." However, knowing that there are doesn't necessarily mean that a non-resident family fully comprehends the danger.

I can easily understand this family's thinking it safe for their child to wade in water so near a Disney resort. "No swimming" to them, as it would to me, probably meant don't swim because there's no specific swimming area with a lifeguard. That wading could be life threatening likely never even occurred to them.

 

[Aurora0427]

Inside Edition ran this video. Article attached.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ay-oblivious-guests-ride-Splash-Mountain.html

I'm sorry, when you have gators inches from your rides, you have a major problem on your hands.

 

[Josh Hendy]

See...to me...that sounds a lot like an acknowledgement that they catch/kill/move around so many that's it's a constant thing (it is)...and that in typical Disney style there are no radio calls, no reports, no real identification of what is being done by a public agency...

And why? Because till this week it would have been considered "bad show"...and all that stuff was designed to go on "back stage"...

I don't think it's as cynical as that, instead I think it's eminently practical to let Disney handle it. I'll bet that virtually every other business in Florida that owns more than an acre of land is given the same leeway by local authorities.

Where I live, many parks and campuses (business and otherwise) would be overrun with Canada geese if they weren't dealt with. So the authorities simply review policies and technical aspects with the property owners or managers, then delegate all of the pest control to them. It would no doubt enrage the more fanatical animal rights people but I was told that many geese are trapped and killed and nests are destroyed.

 

[Her Dotness]

Inside Edition ran this video. Article attached. <snip!>
I'm sorry, when you have gators inches from your rides, you have a major problem on your hands.

Having watched the video, I'm not so sure characterizing that instance as "a major problem" is reasonable. I suspect gators or snakes either one getting that close to rides is not as unusual as we'd like to think given WDW's location in the midst of swampland.

All we see is this CM endeavoring to discourage the gator from getting where it could crawl onto the barrier between the canal where it is and the ride water. We are not shown nor told what happened after this video ended.

I should think that this CM would have promptly reported the gator's presence that near a ride or maintained his efforts to keep the gator from coming any closer while alerting another CM to "Stop the damn ride and get the wildlife management people here NOW!!!" Closing the ride immediately due to "technical difficulties" would be standard procedure, I'm certain, until wildlife personnel could get there and deal with the gator.

 

[closetmickey]

I should think that this CM would have promptly reported the gator's presence that near a ride or maintained his efforts to keep the gator from coming any closer while alerting another CM to "Stop the damn ride and get the wildlife management people here NOW!!!" Closing the ride immediately due to "technical difficulties" would be standard procedure, I'm certain, until wildlife personnel could get there and deal with the gator.

I sure would hope so. But I'm not entirely convinced....

 

[Dusinberre]

I apologize if this question has already been asked on this thread.

Does anyone know if Disney changed any policies or procedures after the boy was attacked by an alligator at Fort Wilderness in the 80's? I'm extremely curious.

 

[manning]

Those bungalows shouldn't exist for a number of reasons...

Add this one to the list...the most dangerous one.

But they want them. Great money maker. Can we say GREED!

 

[rteetz]

But they want them. Great money maker. Can we say GREED!

Well they don't sell all that well.

As a business aren't they supposed to make money though? So you could say any company is greedy. Apple, Google, Amazon, Disney, etc.

 

[beer dave]

I think a significant factor in this terrible death was that the family is from Nebraska where lakes do not include lethal animals able to snatch a toddler at water's edge.

I grew up in Northwest Kansas just 15 miles below the Nebraska line. My family often went to lakes in both states. The most worrisome things along the edge of lakes in that part of the country would be sharp rocks, broken glass or junk metal that might cut your bare foot.

At those lakes, swimming outside designated areas means no lifeguard and a risk of drowning if you step off an unanticipated dropoff. That's about it. Fear of a child's playing and wading at water's edge while supervised by a parent is unheard of.

People can argue until the Nebraska cows come home that "EVERYbody knows there are alligators in Florida." However, knowing that there are doesn't necessarily mean that a non-resident family fully comprehends the danger.

I can easily understand this family's thinking it safe for their child to wade in water so near a Disney resort. "No swimming" to them, as it would to me, probably meant don't swim because there's no specific swimming area with a lifeguard. That wading could be life threatening likely never even occurred to them.

No water moccasins in Kansas? Rattlers or copperheads? Maybe you are just used to those so you don't think about them. After all, how often does someone get hurt by one--- every 25 years or so?

 

[Her Dotness]

No water moccasins in Kansas?

Nope. Not a species that thrives in climates as dry as most of Kansas and Nebraska as far as I'm aware. Water moccasins are snakes I learned about as preferring to live in swampy areas. Kansas and Nebraska are very lacking in that type of terrain.

Rattlers or copperheads?

Rattlers, heck yes, but not lurking about in water or nearby waiting to strike. They prefer sunny bluffs with cracks they can crawl into if they get too warm.

Nope. Never saw a copperhead or heard of anyone who had. Did a bit of googling and found they inhabit only one county in Eastern KS and the far southeastern corner of NE.

Maybe you are just used to those so you don't think about them. After all, how often does someone get hurt by one--- every 25 years or so?

Much less often than that, I expect, since rattlesnakes usually only strike if you happen onto one unexpectedly. That's why kids learn to make a lot of noise if they're exploring hilly places. Rattlers are much more eager to escape people than go after them.

ETA: I lived in Kansas nearly sixty years, just so you know I'm quite familiar with what it's like there. As a kid, used to wander around a creek about a quarter mile from my home, which is where I learned to walk noisily because there might well be rattlesnakes in the dry grassland above the creek.

Oh, and btw, never saw a rattlesnake or a fully developed tornado either one. Tornadoes aren't as common as people elsewhere think they must be.