The big G+ rides at HS gone by 1:07!

[nicksinger8]

From the current TWDC perspective, it’s an easy solution. G+ pricing will go up. I would bet by the start of the summer season. The question is, will it be a nominal increase to $20, or more like $25 or $30?

mac_tlc

Yes agree. The only way Genie+ works is if there is limited demand. Universal charge over $100 don't they? I think Disney will go that way. The people who pay for this product want top value - they will pay big bucks. Others may grumble at the price, but then if you want it pay up. If not, use the standby line and if the Lightning Lanes are relatively empty, people don't feel so bad. Or you go back to Fastpass one - everyone is equal. But I just don't think Disney want that - they want to figure out who is prepared to pay more and this is a good way. Or they want perks for on site guests. This system of giving a lot of people a chance to a pay a bit to get very little. It's not working. And they are creating divides everywhere. On site vs off site. Standby Vs Lightning Lane. It is making a lot of people grumpy - everyone feels like they are missing out somewhere.

 

[itf]

Yes agree. The only way Genie+ works is if there is limited demand. Universal charge over $100 don't they? I think Disney will go that way. The people who pay for this product want top value - they will pay big bucks. Others may grumble at the price, but then if you want it pay up. If not, use the standby line and if the Lightning Lanes are relatively empty, people don't feel so bad.

We're assuming demand will go down with price increases. My suspicion is that ROTR ILL would have to more than double to reduce demand in any meaningful way. The other ILLs less so. If Guardians comes up I shudder to think what they'll price an ILL at if they want to avoid another ROTR instant sell out scenario.

 

[DisneyFive]

This is a consequence of not limiting sales. Now the lines will be really long.

View attachment 648624

I don’t think it’s the fact that they are not limiting sales, only 1/3 to 1/2 of people are purchasing G+. Rather, I don’t think they are opening it up enough G+ spots at each attraction. In the past everyone had FP+ and still was able to get fast passes pretty easily throughout the day in the past.

Dan

 

[nicksinger8]

We're assuming demand will go down with price increases. My suspicion is that ROTR ILL would have to more than double to reduce demand in any meaningful way. The other ILLs less so. If Guardians comes up I shudder to think what they'll price an ILL at if they want to avoid another ROTR instant sell out scenario.

Obviously it depends on the price, but I am convinced there is a price point which will put people off. $15 is not that much in the context of a Disney holiday especially with the product on offer. But it is not what it seems. That's the problem.

 

[DisneyFive]

Yes agree. The only way Genie+ works is if there is limited demand. Universal charge over $100 don't they? I think Disney will go that way. The people who pay for this product want top value - they will pay big bucks. Others may grumble at the price, but then if you want it pay up. If not, use the standby line and if the Lightning Lanes are relatively empty, people don't feel so bad. Or you go back to Fastpass one - everyone is equal. But I just don't think Disney want that - they want to figure out who is prepared to pay more and this is a good way. Or they want perks for on site guests. This system of giving a lot of people a chance to a pay a bit to get very little. It's not working. And they are creating divides everywhere. On site vs off site. Standby Vs Lightning Lane. It is making a lot of people grumpy - everyone feels like they are missing out somewhere.

I just don’t see that as a likely solution. The more you limit G+ sales by raising price, the more you are going towards standby only for the vast majority of guests. That has shown to be unsustainable last summer when lines were spilling out all over the parks and average waits were crazy long. It’s even busier now . That would surely kill return visits once folks experience that situation.

Dan

 

[disneyseniors]

Do you have a link for the trip advisor reviews. I went to TA and tried to locate reviews, but my searches didn't locate anything related to the parks--only the hotels.

Tess I don't know if anyone answered you yet,, but I got to the right place after trying several different names. I think I got on that WDW site at Trip Advisor by just putting Walt Disney World bad reviews. I think the "bad" was what worked. I tried WDW reviews and that didn't work. Good luck! They are interesting to read.

 

[T'Lynn]

Obviously it depends on the price, but I am convinced there is a price point which will put people off. $15 is not that much in the context of a Disney holiday especially with the product on offer. But it is not what it seems. That's the problem.

Exactly this. I have literally said "I've already spent thousands, what's another few hundred?" when I talked with my DH about adding G+ to our tickets in advance.

But I HOPE that I can get at least 3 LL out of it each day as I used to with FP+

 

[chaoskids]

I don’t think it’s the fact that they are not limiting sales, only 1/3 to 1/2 of people are purchasing G+. Rather, I don’t think they are opening it up enough G+ spots at each attraction. In the past everyone had FP+ and still was able to get fast passes pretty easily throughout the day in the past.

Dan

Yes! This! If Disney would use the same numbers for availability as with FP+ it would be better for the G+ purchasers. A short wait is better than not getting the LL at all.

 

[nicksinger8]

Yes! This! If Disney would use the same numbers for availability as with FP+ it would be better for the G+ purchasers. A short wait is better than not getting the LL at all.

But people are paying for Genie+ - it is a fine balance, but the point of the system is to avoid a wait, even a relatively small one. With FP or FP+ you couldn't complain too much. It was free after all. People will grumble if they pay AND wait. That's why it has to be a price issue - Genie + is a premium product so charge for it. Or go back to a free system. They can tinker all they want in between but they end with a relatively inexpensive product, which feels expensive and people don't get good value. 'I PAID $15 a day for a family of 4 and I still had to line up for 30 minutes'.

 

[DisneyFive]

But people are paying for Genie+ - it is a fine balance, but the point of the system is to avoid a wait, even a relatively small one. With FP or FP+ you couldn't complain too much. It was free after all. People will grumble if they pay AND wait. That's why it has to be a price issue - Genie + is a premium product so charge for it. Or go back to a free system. They can tinker all they want in between but they end with a relatively inexpensive product, which feels expensive and people don't get good value. 'I PAID $15 a day for a family of 4 and I still had to line up for 30 minutes'.

Having done standby-only last summer, I would gladly pay the $16 per day per person for G+ if it had good ride available, even at 10 to 20 minute waits for each ride. YMMV. The waits last summer were not cool. We said we would not come back until there was some system in place, even if it was paid.

I think people understand, even with paid G+, that you are going to have some sort of wait, just not nearly as long as the standby lane.

Dan

 

[itf]

I just don’t see that as a likely solution. The more you limit G+ sales by raising price, the more you are going towards standby only for the vast majority of guests. That has shown to be unsustainable last summer when lines were spilling out all over the parks and average waits were crazy long. It’s even busier now . That would surely kill return visits once folks experience that situation.

Dan

Then maybe they should limit the number of park guests. They know how many reservations they've got and if they can't provide an adequate experience for that number of people, and god knows they will have the analytics, then they deserve no return visits.

 

[nicksinger8]

Having done standby-only last summer, I would gladly pay the $16 per day per person for G+ if it had good ride available, even at 10 to 20 minute waits for each ride. YMMV. The waits last summer were not cool. We said we would not come back until there was some system in place, even if it was paid.

I think people understand, even with paid G+, that you are going to have some sort of wait, just not nearly as long as the standby lane.


Dan

Then maybe they should limit the number of park guests. They know how many reservations they've got and if they can't provide an adequate experience for that number of people, and god knows they will have the analytics, then they deserve no return visits.

I guess this may just be an issue of overcrowding in general. The big ticket attractions they have added, especially in AK and HS, are so advanced, maybe it has really created an overwhelming attendance. It might be Covid. Whilst it would have decreased international tourism, it has surely increased domestic demand and especially amongst Floridians. If trapped, amazing to have a world class tourist destination at your finger tips. But also, I would imagine staff cuts must matter. If you have one fewer member of staff on a small ride, it can in theory double the wait time - if they have to do every task. Safety, load, unload, start the ride. On bigger rides, this can be even bigger. It is hard to know. Do we have attendance figures?

 

[Disturbia]

Using your phone to check wait times is something you would be doing under any system, including standby only. It sure beats having to walk to an attraction or one of the couple of wait time boards in the park to see the posted wait times.

I’m just saying I was more anxious vs FP+. With little kids it was harder vs FP+. That said I’d rather do that vs the long waits we did June 2021 and left the park after 3 hrs (not to return). Hence we’re going again for spring break. I can see both sides of the argument.

Also, we are booking 2 LLIA and 1 Genie+ ahead of time anyway (at 7 am), so I can see them changing this to say a week ahead of time easily. There’s no easy answers someone will be dissatisfied either way.

 

[roctavia]

Unfortunately, I think disney is already so expensive that people want to get value in their trip, so short of making Genie + ridiculously priced like $100-150 pp, people will pay for it because they want to get some rides... Trying to "price it out" won't work until it's obscene, and people will try to find ways to pay for it. Even at $50 per person I think more people will buy it than disney would expect because if they've already spent $4-5000 +, they want to go on rides, an extra few hundred dollars will annoy them, but people will do it.

 

[nicksinger8]

Unfortunately, I think disney is already so expensive that people want to get value in their trip, so short of making Genie + ridiculously priced like $100-150 pp, people will pay for it because they want to get some rides... Trying to "price it out" won't work until it's obscene, and people will try to find ways to pay for it. Even at $50 per person I think more people will buy it than disney would expect because if they've already spent $4-5000 +, they want to go on rides, an extra few hundred dollars will annoy them, but people will do it.

But $50 per person for a family of 4 - $200 a day for 5 days. An extra $1000. Double (either 10 days or $100) it then $2000. Double both etc etc. There will be a point. And I don't think they can go too high with it - that is to say, they can just keep going until demand drops off. Universal don't seem to have this problem.

 

[Disturbia]

Disney will bring back after hours events to make more money and price them $175 range (Just like the increase in party prices). They need to open Fantasmic, although now it would conflict with my ADRs.

 

[roctavia]

But $50 per person for a family of 4 - $200 a day for 5 days. An extra $1000. Double (either 10 days or $100) it then $2000. Double both etc etc. There will be a point. And I don't think they can go too high with it - that is to say, they can just keep going until demand drops off. Universal don't seem to have this problem.

People might not buy it for every day, but a lot of people will buy it at $50, even though it's ridiculous to upcharge that much for something that used to be included in the already expensive ticket price. Yes, there will be a point where it is too much, but we've seen with the ticket prices that people still pay it, attendance hasn't gone down with the climbing ticket prices...

We are going for one last trip in May since we already had money invested from a COVID cancelled trip, but we'll be in the group that won't be returning if things continue down this path of upcharges for every little thing or crazy waits in line.

We went to 6 flags when I was a kid (our typical summer vacation) paid a climbing ticket price and rode 3 rides the whole day due to 4 hour waits for everything.... we didn't go back. Disney is going that direction for us as well.

 

[lowlight]

I guess this may just be an issue of overcrowding in general. The big ticket attractions they have added, especially in AK and HS, are so advanced, maybe it has really created an overwhelming attendance. It might be Covid. Whilst it would have decreased international tourism, it has surely increased domestic demand and especially amongst Floridians. If trapped, amazing to have a world class tourist destination at your finger tips. But also, I would imagine staff cuts must matter. If you have one fewer member of staff on a small ride, it can in theory double the wait time - if they have to do every task. Safety, load, unload, start the ride. On bigger rides, this can be even bigger. It is hard to know. Do we have attendance figures?

Florida set their all time record for domestic travel last year with 118 million visitors in 2021, more than even pre-pandemic. Keep in mind relatively few people traveled in the first quarter of 2021, so that's a lot of people for an effectively shortened travel year, and probably a non-insignificant percentage of them went to WDW. With that said, WDW has long had crowding issues, and they aren't particularly nimble in their reaction- see the Figment popcorn fiasco. That should have been a separate line from the 2nd day the 4 hour waits happened, but that's how slowly large corporations react to hiccups- it has to zip up the chain of command, a zoom meeting needs to be held, focus groups, boss sign offs, and then trickle itself back down ever so slowly. I'm certain the people in charge know Genie+ stinks right now. I hope the answer is to fix the glaring issues, and not price people out.

 

[Miffy]

I was curious about the Universal Express Pass so I looked it up. On March 1st and 2nd--I chose those dates because I will be at WDW then--the unlimited pass (you can reride attractions at will) is $129.99. I guess that doesn't include tax, but I didn't go further, so I didn't see.

If WDW charged $130 for a front-of-line pass with unlimited rerides (excluding, say, RotR and FoP, which you could use the pass only once for) and limited the number of passes it sold, these would sell out. I would probably buy this for DHS for one day of my trip, but hardly for every day. It costs a heckuva lot more than G+ but the convenience it offers is a heckuva lot more.

Will Disney go to a system like this? Maybe. Maybe G+ is their method of paving the way for something a lot more expensive. Knowing Disney, though, their unlimited express pass will cost 3x what Uni's does and it won't come with a deluxe hotel stay like it does at Uni. Maybe a deluxe club-level stay, assuming a CL room will cost $1,500/night, although I may have underpriced that.

There is no leveling of the playing field if WDW keeps charging for G+ or whatever system it will have. Because as soon as there's an extra cost, the playing field is automatically not level, since there are people--imagine that!--who actually can't afford to add another $15.98/person/day to their trip cost.

There was kind of a level playing field for RotR when it first opened--the mad rush to, in a sense, win the RotR daily lottery. There were innumerable complaints about this, but unless you didn't have a smartphone, which has become a necessity at WDW, the playing field was as level as it could possibly be. Whoever you were, you had the same chance as anyone else of getting or not getting a RotR BG.

Now this has been replaced by the mad rush at 7 am to pay, and if you aren't staying at a WDW resort, the playing field for you is not only not level, you're probably completely out of luck. How this has made anything easier or more appealing for anyone, I do not know.

But I suspect that all the "Disney, you have to raise the price" commentary on the DIS is fueling Disney's plans to raise the price of G+. DISers, please, don't tell Disney they should raise the price on their resorts. Have you looked at rack rate lately? Sheesh. Unbelievable. And few discounts. No bouncebacks. Still no new AP sales. And let's not forget there's all but no housekeeping lately.

 

[itf]

I was curious about the Universal Express Pass so I looked it up. On March 1st and 2nd--I chose those dates because I will be at WDW then--the unlimited pass (you can reride attractions at will) is $129.99. I guess that doesn't include tax, but I didn't go further, so I didn't see.

If WDW charged $130 for a front-of-line pass with unlimited rerides (excluding, say, RotR and FoP, which you could use the pass only once for) and limited the number of passes it sold, these would sell out. I would probably buy this for DHS for one day of my trip, but hardly for every day. It costs a heckuva lot more than G+ but the convenience it offers is a heckuva lot more.

Express Pass excludes (off the top of my head) Velocicoaster and Hagrids. But there's no way to 'buy on' these apart from VIP tours.