The (2) Early Extra Hours in Fantacyland offer may hurt rope drop patrons.

@kennythepirate mentioned there would have to be a limit as you can only get so many people through a breakfast buffet. you'd have to be fairly naïve to go first thing (ie during the 8 - 9 am timeframe).
Unless they add another restaurant to increase capacity. They could add Be Our Guest rather easily and double the amount of guests (as well as increase the price since BOG). They could also use Columbia Harbor House.
 
We went straight back to the Mine Train last June at rope drop, well before the new promotion was even announced. The line was packed when we got there.
 
RD has been a strategy since before the internet existed but like most things places like the disboards have increased its popularity.

I'm not sure how much this will affect RD, maybe SM at most. I would ride my 3 attractions then SM at 9 then head back for breakfast at 9:30. I do bet the buffet gets slammed at 9:30
 

I think Disney is hoping everyone using this package will be eating or about to eat at 9 am, as not to affect rope drop guest. I know if I do this package I would be planing to eat somewhere around that time as to take full advantage of the shorter lines that way I can move on to other rides at by 10am.


I htink breakfast is offered until 10 AM so this still gicves folks time to hit the major FL attractions and then eat.

We went straight back to the Mine Train last June at rope drop, well before the new promotion was even announced. The line was packed when we got there.

I really do not think the RD folks will be most impacted. It will be all those folks that you saw already in line at Mine Train...they had PPO breakfast and beat feet for early access and a few spins before the park opened.

I remember before BOG opened a PPO breakfast was truly that. You ate your breakfast aster admiring how empty Main Street was, and then you went to whatever Land you were going to start in and you waited for the rope to drop. I think that eventually teh RD will be a true RD for everyone who does not have a PPO at then hits teh Mine Train. Those folks will be shuttled to the rope that cuts them off form entering the attractions queues. Just my opinion, but how else to you entice people to pay for what that whole group of folks are getting for free?
 
My one MK day is on an extra early hours day. It's the most recommended park and works with our schedule so I'm debating what to do. Do I go and hope that it's not extra crowded or do I do MK on a different day and go to the second most recommended park? We normally do RD so this may have a large impact on our day.
I ended up changing my plans because of it. I had a PPO breakfast at BOG and then they announced this. I moved my dates around because there's no way of knowing, at this point, how these will affect the RD crowd. And since I had to make my FP+, I didn't want to take any chances so we are going to DHS that day instead.
 
Like others have said, the main people this will effect are the ones with pre opening dinning reservations that use that as a way to get to the rides 1st. I believe these people will notice a little more wait than they are use to but not by much as the people doing the package will be moving on to other places in the park starting around 9am or going to eat at that time.
 
Disney may also just not care if you believe that they've become much more profit-driven than show-driven as of late. RD doesn't add to their profit at all. But it certainly stinks for the people who have perfected the strategy.

This is what I think. Disney does not really care about RD people, they don't provide any extra income or benefit to Disney. Plus, RD's are not guaranteed anything. It's your choice to get there at RD, but it's not like they advertise that if you do RD you will be given special access to rides with limited people, or you will get X amount of rides with no wait.

They open the park, and you go in. They don't care if you now are behind the 8 ball and may have to wait a little longer. If you don't want the wait, pony up the money for exclusive access at pre park hours. At least that's how I see it.
 
This is what I think. Disney does not really care about RD people, they don't provide any extra income or benefit to Disney. Plus, RD's are not guaranteed anything. It's your choice to get there at RD, but it's not like they advertise that if you do RD you will be given special access to rides with limited people, or you will get X amount of rides with no wait.

They open the park, and you go in. They don't care if you now are behind the 8 ball and may have to wait a little longer. If you don't want the wait, pony up the money for exclusive access at pre park hours. At least that's how I see it.
I think this is the right assessment and also why I'm annoyed.

I don't get annoyed with the availability of VIP services (that I'll never be able to afford) because those people will not significantly impact my touring. But when hundreds of people are let in ahead of me, affecting my choice to do RD that day and changing the flow of foot traffic in a way that I cannot predict right now, all for the sake of Disney making a few extra bucks (#thanksshanghai) then that does impact my touring. And now I'm annoyed.
 
I think this is the right assessment and also why I'm annoyed.

I don't get annoyed with the availability of VIP services (that I'll never be able to afford) because those people will not significantly impact my touring. But when hundreds of people are let in ahead of me, affecting my choice to do RD that day and changing the flow of foot traffic in a way that I cannot predict right now, all for the sake of Disney making a few extra bucks (#thanksshanghai) then that does impact my touring. And now I'm annoyed.

Yeah, it's frustrating to have a plan that has consistently worked, only to have the rules change. They found a way to make some extra money and are probably hoping more people will pay to be "first." Next they will have pre-pre-park opening for those who want to arrive at 5:00 a.m!

I don't think they care one bit how it effects RD's since they are not profiting on RD's.
 
This and the after hours tickets have me worried. It seems Disney is experimenting with doing away with free EMH and trying to find new ways of making people pay for what was previously free. While EMH and late park openings during busier times may still be accessible when these special events aren't taking place, how long will it remain so? This just tops of the long list of rather "unmagical" things Disney has been doing in recent years. I will be visiting next month with my oldest son for his 16th birthday celebration and have taken him every year for the last 13 years of his life, but the Disney I fell in love with as a child myself and even as a mother taking my own children for the first time, is a far cry from the conglomerate machine that is operating today. It is sad to see and barely distinguishable as it has happened slowly over time, but as you step back and dissect the changes, it is sad to see what it is becoming. Please don't bash me for my opinion. Yes, we still go because it has become a tradition and special place for my family, but that does not mean that I can't be sad or unhappy about the recent changes taking place.
 
This and the after hours tickets have me worried. It seems Disney is experimenting with doing away with free EMH and trying to find new ways of making people pay for what was previously free. While EMH and late park openings during busier times may still be accessible when these special events aren't taking place, how long will it remain so? This just tops of the long list of rather "unmagical" things Disney has been doing in recent years. I will be visiting next month with my oldest son for his 16th birthday celebration and have taken him every year for the last 13 years of his life, but the Disney I fell in love with as a child myself and even as a mother taking my own children for the first time, is a far cry from the conglomerate machine that is operating today. It is sad to see and barely distinguishable as it has happened slowly over time, but as you step back and dissect the changes, it is sad to see what it is becoming. Please don't bash me for my opinion. Yes, we still go because it has become a tradition and special place for my family, but that does not mean that I can't be sad or unhappy about the recent changes taking place.

I think that your feelings are valid. Long time guests notice changes that first time around guests never even think about. We have been frequent guests for over ten years, and before that we went a few times, but that was a long time ago. For me, the Disney we started visiting with our DGD and adult family was way more interesting than when my kids were young, so for us, the changes were for the better, adding so much to our trip. Back when my own children were younger, I was a once and done person. It was okay. I liked just about anywhere else better.

Now, after ten years of consistent visits, I will say I notice changes that I wish had not happened. The Holiday decorations and little ceremonies that are gone, bother me. Losing the AK parade is sad to me, and some of the changes in Fantasyland make me sad.

I do not think it is wrong to feel that the changes affect your enjoyment of the parks in general, or the Disney management specifically, and no one should get bashed for that.
 
This and the after hours tickets have me worried. It seems Disney is experimenting with doing away with free EMH and trying to find new ways of making people pay for what was previously free. While EMH and late park openings during busier times may still be accessible when these special events aren't taking place, how long will it remain so? This just tops of the long list of rather "unmagical" things Disney has been doing in recent years. I will be visiting next month with my oldest son for his 16th birthday celebration and have taken him every year for the last 13 years of his life, but the Disney I fell in love with as a child myself and even as a mother taking my own children for the first time, is a far cry from the conglomerate machine that is operating today. It is sad to see and barely distinguishable as it has happened slowly over time, but as you step back and dissect the changes, it is sad to see what it is becoming. Please don't bash me for my opinion. Yes, we still go because it has become a tradition and special place for my family, but that does not mean that I can't be sad or unhappy about the recent changes taking place.

I'm not bashing you, but I would ask what are your specific complaints? EMH haven't gone away, and aside from a lot of fear mongering, no one is suggesting they are going away. I'm rather sure WDW will continue to provide some sort of in-park benefit for on-site guests even if they do replace them with something else.

The problems we're seeing at Disney aren't as much about Disney as they are about its popularity. As I said above, I think this early morning Fantasyland program is a way for them to combat the horror that Rope Drop has become. I don't know if it will work, or if it's justified, but Rope Drop used to be a simple little thing they did to open to park to a few hundred early risers. Now the crowds back up to the tapstiles. This is a scary place of WDW to be in, because they aren't prepared -- nor do they want to be -- for people storming the gates every morning. Yet that is what RD has become as people continually do whatever they can to maximize their vacation, touring sites and Disney boards constantly reinforcing the idea that the only way to have a great time is to get to the park early. It was this kind of behavior that caused the demise of FP-, this idea of each individual person doing whatever it takes to get the most rides. I'm not criticizing; WDW costs a lot of money, and people want to get all they can for their dollar. But as more and more people come to the park, more and more people demand a limited amount of ride capacity. And Disney has to find a way to adjust. Likewise, I'm certain this new program is either to counter or in response to early morning ADRs and people using them to get early access to rides -- RD isn't enough for many of them, they want an even bigger head start. I'm not blaming them, but it sets up a situation where WDW then allows a small group of savvy users an advantage. And, given that many of those BOG visitors brag about the fact they aren't really using the dining reservation they've made, it would make sense that WDW needs to make a change.

So they came up with this -- a chance for people to pay to get that head start. I don't think the cost of either early morning or late nights is excessive, but it is more. But goodness, they need to do something. Because people keep coming. Universal brought more people to Orlando -- do you think those people don't make a stop at WDW? Attendance has risen every year -- even a 1 percent increase means an extra 500 people a day in the park. What used to be slow is now busy, and what used to be busy is now packed. They've got to develop ways to spread out and manage crowds, because the alternative is acting like Wally the Moose, and turning people away at the door. And we all know how that turned out.

The other thing I'd point out is that I grew up in Orlando, so I spent a fair amount of time at Disney. There have always been lines. There have always been waits. It has always been expensive. As a kid, we thought it was worth it until it wasn't. We all want better for our kids than we had, so we want their times to be short, and their experiences maximized whenever we can do it. But a theme park -- especially this one -- only allows you to do that with a price. Universal's Express Pass can cost more than the cost of admission-- same thing for Elitch Gardens here in Denver. Iv'e no idea what WDW could charge for that kind of pass, but my guess is it would be a lot more. What they are doing instead is giving people the option of buying into a less-crowded situation for a limited amount of their day. I actually think it's the kinder of the two options.

I'm sorry you're not having as much fun there as you think you should. I get that -- my wife is the same way. But at some point even memories and wishes run into the real logistics of crowds, and I think WDW is there, and probably will remain there for a long, long time.
 
If this new offer is successful, the large number of people who show up at Rope Drop and make the mad dash to the Mine Train, or Peter Pan, may be disappointed when they get there and the lines are already packed. I guess the theory is that everyone will have ridden everything in Fantacyland multiple times during the 2 hour window, and will either be eating breakfast, or will have moved on to another lands, waiting for other rides to open. If the latter is true, Rope Drop people who make the mad dash to Space Mountain may find a large number of people already in line there as well.
Are they offering those every single day or just certain days
 












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