Thank God is was just a "little white lie".

[cheermom1]

Just so you guys know this is not the frost time I heard of this same scientist doing these things with GM..I will see what I can find but it was on the news one night...
also about the "i win" thing was to my dh!!! and I don't understand why it was made into such a big deal? oh that's right the reason GM is made into such a big deal!

 

[legalsea]

question here.

Most of this global warming/climate change business,.... forecasts, computer models, records ect. all deal with ' since we started keeping records' and the ' warmest/coldest season/month on record' and so on.

Just how accurate was a thermometer back in 1820? As accurate as today?
How accurate are those records from the 1800's?
Who were these guys taking the readings?
Were they scientists? Army? Farmers?

I really wonder why folks don't ask these questions?

Just how accurate was a thermometer back in 1820? As accurate as today? Yes.

How accurate are those records from the 1800's? Very.

Who were these guys taking the readings? Joe, Shannon and, if I recall, Benjamin.

Were they scientists? Army? Farmers? Joe was a haberdasher. Shannon was a chimney sweep. Benjamin invented electricity.

 

[punkin]

Just how accurate was a thermometer back in 1820? As accurate as today? Yes.

How accurate are those records from the 1800's? Very.

Who were these guys taking the readings? Joe, Shannon and, if I recall, Benjamin.

Were they scientists? Army? Farmers? Joe was a haberdasher. Shannon was a chimney sweep. Benjamin invented electricity.

Gee I didn't know a natural phenomenon could be invented.

 

[Goldenbear6]

Well put.

The resources of the earth aren't finite and pollution is logically damaging. One scientist being an idiot doesn't change that.

Just one scientist?

 

[legalsea]

Gee I didn't know a natural phenomenon could be invented.

Yes, Benjamin was a bit of a blowhard that tended to claim credit for lots of natural things. He was, after all, a distant relative of that guy whom claimed to have invented gravity (I guess that before Isaac things did not really fall but simply floated about).

 

[Muushka]

I don't care if it's real or not-I still believe in recycling, using cloth grocery bags instead of plastic and conserving our resources. It bothers me that being good stewards of the planet has been tied to something so controversial. It shouldn't matter what anyone says about the future-warmer, colder, whatever- we should be responsible about the resources we use because it's the right thing to do.

I agree with this statement 100%. I conserve whenever I can.

However, global warming is a totally different beast. It involved politics, money making schemes, Wall Street and who knows what else.

I am so grateful that this information became available before Cap and Trade made it to congress.

 

[Goldenbear6]

Yes, Benjamin was a bit of a blowhard that tended to claim credit for lots of natural things. He was, after all, a distant relative of that guy whom claimed to have invented gravity (I guess that before Isaac things did not really fall but simply floated about).

I thought the blow hard you were talking about invented the internet?

 

[legalsea]

I thought the blow hard you were talking about invented the internet?

Ah! You are thinking of Al Gore. Mind, he did not claim to have 'invented' the internet, but claimed, rather confusingly, that he IS the internet, and that all information of the universe flows through him. When he made that announcement he then claimed that he was going to levitate himself to a great height. I was present. All he did was jump up and down for a few minutes before he became winded, all the while shouting “You all look like ants from up here!”

I did go ahead and vote for him, however.

 

[FireDancer]

I love how people seriously still believe Global Warming is real. People need to realize that the Earth goes through temperature phases.. It just so happens we're in one. Surprise, surprise. People who believe in Global Warming need to take a Geology class, pronto.

And, Al Gore is full of poo. Just sayin'.

I don't care if it's real or not-I still believe in recycling, using cloth grocery bags instead of plastic and conserving our resources. It bothers me that being good stewards of the planet has been tied to something so controversial. It shouldn't matter what anyone says about the future-warmer, colder, whatever- we should be responsible about the resources we use because it's the right thing to do.

Yes, taking care of the environment is important, there is no doubting that. The issue with the climate-gate kind of thinking is trying to find ways of monetizing global warming. Without getting too specific, and thus political, there is a lot of coming up with carbon schemes that do nothing for the environment but will make a few people rich and set up a monetary nightmare.

Have we not learned that when we add false value to something that should have none it will all go terribly wrong eventually?

 

[punkin]

Yes, Benjamin was a bit of a blowhard that tended to claim credit for lots of natural things. He was, after all, a distant relative of that guy whom claimed to have invented gravity (I guess that before Isaac things did not really fall but simply floated about).

Nah...they didn't float about. They were simply moved by angels. It is only after Isaac invented gravity that angels got some time off.

 

[Hoodie]

Agreed, especially seeing that the column's author Marc Moreno has long be associated with a hard right wing political/corporate agenda. I give far more credibility to peer reviewed, scientific study than I do to one of a very small minority who's sole purpose seems to be to publish every little factoid, true, untrue or otherwise to back his years old claim that climate change theory is "unraveling".

I find it amazing how some people will grab on to any shred of information, even in the face of an enormous amount to evidence to the contrary, just to prove that their opinion was correct. AFAIC, it's kinda hard to remain credible when you behave in that manner.

Therein lies the problem. Many of the reports were NOT peer-reviewed. That's why there's the scandal. The other problem is that the data that is now missing was THE data used to support the theory. Not some, but the "data" that actually was the basis for the argument. The current scandal is that with the revelation of the incriminating emails, the Institute requested that the data be resubmitted for peer review. Now the data is "missing".

As for the source, you can get the same story from a quick google search from multiple other sources, mostly in the UK. There has been very little coverage of any controversy in the US. Contrary to what some politicians want you to believe, this is not "settled" science and has had many scientists, including many meteorologists, that disagree with it. However, the money is in supporting it.

This should be a HUGE scandal, but it would conflict with a lot of political agendas. If the media was actually doing its job, this would be plastered all over the news and there would be a push to "Prove" one way or another. This should be a bigger story than Watergate, but I doubt we'll see it.

 

[FireDancer]

This should be a HUGE scandal, but it would conflict with a lot of political agendas. If the media was actually doing its job, this would be plastered all over the news and there would be a push to "Prove" one way or another. This should be a bigger story than Watergate, but I doubt we'll see it.

Not only political agenda but, even more importantly, corporate agenda. Remember that GE stands to make a fortune on things like the smart grid and alternative energy. There is nothing wrong with that, they are a company that should try to maximize profit, but we have to take a step back and do some critical thinking. The stronger the push for those things the more will be adopted and the more GE will make. Do you think a network owned by them would be quick to report on any information that would hurt their owner's bottom lines? Maybe, maybe not, but that is the kind of critical thinking we need to apply to the situation.

 

[Planogirl]

Again, no one really know the truth. That part of it never seems to change.

 

[ticktock]

Not only political agenda but, even more importantly, corporate agenda. Remember that GE stands to make a fortune on things like the smart grid and alternative energy. There is nothing wrong with that, they are a company that should try to maximize profit, but we have to take a step back and do some critical thinking. The stronger the push for those things the more will be adopted and the more GE will make. Do you think a network owned by them would be quick to report on any information that would hurt their owner's bottom lines? Maybe, maybe not, but that is the kind of critical thinking we need to apply to the situation.

Usually I would disagree with your beware the evil corporate agenda because you can CHOOSE not to buy a companies product but in this situation you can't. It still comes down to government though and that is the important point. Dh's and my family's are stuffed with engineers and DH's has a lot of military as well. They all hate this smart grid, but who was it that really got the ball rolling on it? The military had GE install it on some of their bases and that's when it became a hot topic. Trust me the military DIDN't want this. It was all the politicians pushing it. One particular branch of politicians too. Government should never be in bed with corporations, that includes agriculture. Stop subsidizing genetically modified foods. Stop paying corporations owned by politicians and their cronies to grow soybeans.

As for global warming I have never been a believer. I do think developing alternate energy sources is important but that will take awhile. The only viable alternate energy we have right now is nuclear. Everything else is just a toy at this point and will be for several years.

 

[sbell111]

Do you guys never get tired of this topic? Do you think that you are going to change anyone's minds?

 

[legalsea]

Do you guys never get tired of this topic? Do you think that you are going to change anyone's minds?

Why not? After all, we did manage to reach complete agreement about religious matters a while back, which is why that topic is no longer allowed.

 

[shrubber]

Just how accurate was a thermometer back in 1820? As accurate as today? Yes.

How accurate are those records from the 1800's? Very.

Who were these guys taking the readings? Joe, Shannon and, if I recall, Benjamin.

Were they scientists? Army? Farmers? Joe was a haberdasher. Shannon was a chimney sweep. Benjamin invented electricity.

I call foul.
As I understand it, there were no uniform standards for thermometers in the 1800's. They were all made by different manufacturers, placed out in the open, exposed to sun, snow and the like. Hung at different heights, recorded randomly., and unable to be calibrated.

A far cry form today, where the official thermometera are digital and can be calibrated to an nth of a degree.

when the global warming scientists say the atmosphere has warmed by a half a degree or something over the 200 years, they are relying on data that was collected with innaccurate, improperly placed if not faulty equiptment.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

...when the global warming scientists say the atmosphere has warmed by a half a degree or something over the 200 years, they are relying on data that was collected with innaccurate, improperly placed if not faulty equiptment.

Or selectively sampled tree ring data...

 

[Muushka]

Do you guys never get tired of this topic? Do you think that you are going to change anyone's minds?

I can assume you are talking about global warming. The news that came out these past few days is stunning. People have been trying to change my mind for the past 10 years. We finally have someone who is willing to admit that the information we have been given has been false. I find that news.

 

[Goldenbear6]

Why not? After all, we did manage to reach complete agreement about religious matters a while back, which is why that topic is no longer allowed.

So true.