Terrible service at Liberty Tree Tavern - mandatory tip!!

[TLSnell1981]

And we have a winner!!

Methinks, we have multiples.

 

[Shooby doo]

Having read thru' the thread from page one I thought that I would add my simple thoughts: We in the UK don't complain enough & will pretty much sit thru anything & then vote with our feet.I wouldn't have been happy at the level of service,especially as tables close by appeared to be better "waited" on.I am confused as to why the manager wouldn't remove the 18% though,I understand that it is added automatically for parties that size but isn't it still your choice to pay it? And surely the server must have been asking management for help as he/she wasn't able to give the level of service required & was surely going to effect their earnings?
Would I have used the DVC thing-you bet!!If everything else had failed & I thought that that was the only way I was going to get "satisfaction" then yes BUT I find it very sad that it had to come down to that & that it was only the loss of so much money that changed Guest Services mind.
SD

 

[Toot Sweet]

On Tuesday, Nov 20, 2007 we had dinner at Liberty Tree Tavern and had a less then magical time. Info as follows:

-Reservations made 6 months out
-6:40pm priority seating time
-Disney requested we arrive 15 minutes prior
-Arrived at 6:20 pm
-Waited and waited and waited
-We were seated at 7:15 pm
-4 tables of 8 were open when we walked through the restaurant
-1 of the tables was open for 15 minutes, - I could see it from the waiting area
-We were seated first of three other open tables for 8
-15 minutes before a server arrived to get drink orders
-two tables, one of 7 and 8 were seated after us and had drinks and salads before our server took our drink orders
-35 minutes from being seated until get got salad and rolls
-45 minutes from being seated until get got the main course on the table, the other two tables had seconds and dessert before we got our main course
-a total of 100 minutes from check in to main course on the table.
-other tables had a server who got drinks, another person who brought the salad and rolls, another server brought the main course and a bus person cleared the table. The one and only server we had did everything for us and three other tables, three of which were all seated at once!!

The bill came with an 18% tip included. I asked for the manager, Mandy, and explained the problem. Due to the poor service, I did not want to leave an 18% tip. Our server provided poor service due to the restaurant manager poorly scheduling available staff. Our server worked alone while others had 3-4 helpers. I requested that the manager compensate me 18% off the bill and still allow the server to get her tip. While the services was bad, she worked has hard as possible but was given just too much work to do. The manager REFUSED!

I said that then I refuse to pay a 18% tip for poor service. The manager REFUSED to take the tip off.

I charged the bill on my credit card and wrote on the receipt "Amount in dispute"

I then went to Guest Services at the front of MK and asked that I be reimbursed for the tip. After waiting for 15 minutes, I was told that the server worked hard and should get the tip. I informed them that I was a DVC member who just purchased 500 points ($56,000) on the members cruise and that I had the signed contracts in my room ready to turn in. I advised them that I was going to tear up the contracts and let DVC know why. I informed them that they were going to lose a $56,000 sale over a $47 tip, and I meant it!!!

It was amazing how fast their attitude changed. I was handled $47 cash in 30 seconds.

I am not CHEAP - but I tip based on the quality of the service. No tip is mandatory for poor service. I realized it wasn't the server's fault for the poor service, that is why originally, I asked for the restaurant to compensate me the 18% and allow the server to keep the 18% tip.

Liberty Tree Tavern will be the last place I eat at when visiting the MK and Mandy is the poorest restaurant manager I have ever run into.

The server got to keep her 18% tip. Supposedly, restaurant management will be talking to Mandy, I am not holding my breath!

Next time - Cape May Buffet!!!

 

[maxiesmom]

OP--I just want to know what you would have done had you NOT been in the process of buying into the vacation club?

I understand your being upset, but the fact that you used your upcoming DVC membership as a threat is distasteful. I'm sure you couldn't care less, but it smacks of being a bully. If your service was poor from the start, you could have gotten up and left. And made sure the manager knew why you were leaving.

 

[Shell0616]

This thread made me so sad. You were angry for the long wait and the fact that the waitress was given to many tables/people to wait on. I would have been upset too. Really I would have been. However, I would not have withheld a tip that you yourself agreed was earned by your waitress. You can afford to spend $56,000 on a lifetime of Disney vacations and you can't give $42.00 to a person that you felt deserved it?

You were not hurting the Disney Corporation with your actions, you were hurting someone who was working way to hard to begin with. There had to have been another action you could have taken. Writing a complaint. Asking for a free meal. Fast passes. Whatever.

I don't have any issue with you threatening to take away your $56,000. It's your money and if you feel one bad experience is equal to 56K then that's your right. However, I'm sure you were aware of the 18% tip before you sat down. After you waited "100" minutes you chose to sit down anyway.

I don't mean to knock you. I really don't. I was just really sad that you never thought about who your actions were really effecting.

Shellie

 

[scottny]

honestly it is sad that this happened. u state the server deserved the tip but apparently you did not feel that way otherwise you would not have threatened using your DVC contract.

Sad that Disney did not say "no" to you.

Hope you spent the 40 something dollars wisely.

I have a ressie there in january and will not cancel I have heard many good reviews of it.

 

[schatterjee]

I find it amazing how many people feel that the tip is part of the deal no matter how bad the service is. In my book poor service equals a poor tip. Not just at Disney but anywhere - I think terrible service is fairly rare but if it occurs adjusting the amount of the tip is the proper response.

 

[scottny]

I find it amazing how many people feel that the tip is part of the deal no matter how bad the service is. In my book poor service equals a poor tip. Not just at Disney but anywhere - I think terrible service is fairly rare but if it occurs adjusting the amount of the tip is the proper response.

i just remember when i waited tables and made $2 an hour. I relied on those tips, everyone has a bad day so I just go on that and tip no matter what.

 

[Evi]

Wow, aren't you touchy? I actually feel a lot more sorry for the CMs at Disney at this point. With that kind of attitude its no wonder you didn't get the response you were looking for from the manager at Liberty Tree

Sajetto why do you have to be a such a nasty thread killer???

Honestly I thought this was a place for one to post both good and bad experiences and honestly If I sat down for dinner and had a terrable expereince while on vacation I would notify managment. If I was not satisfied with the response and was about to drop 56k towards long term vacation I would bring it up since it is same company. I dont see how someone expressing how they felt slighted by there expereince requires so many people to be judgmental and nastly.

save the eyerolling for your children so that they can grow up to be grumps like you.......

maybe its time to have that Jesus talk.

 

[Minniespal]

What a shame you had such a bad experience.

 

[emmabemmainc]

Sajetto why do you have to be a such a nasty thread killer???

Doesn't being a thread killer mean that they have stopped a thread?

Just wondering..............

 

[Pooh's-Honey-Pot]

I feel really sorry for the original poster!!!! If I had waited that long for a meal I would certainly complain, using whatever leverage I had available.

And maybe it's because I'm British and we don't tip as often over here (we do when on holiday I should point out!!), but I would have refused to pay the full tip if I received that level of service as well!! To me a tip is earned, not an automatic right.

 

[SemperFi]

Man! I'm new to this, been lurking awhile, and I have noticed anyone that dares suggest Disney has failed to perform up to a reasonable level always gets flamed and accused of trolling, etc by some posters. Is that fair? Is that even smart?

Aren't BBs the place to post concerns, ask questions, share info? And isn't that what the OP did? Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't accepting whatever we are given, and however we are treated--no matter how poorly--the surest way to ensure slip-shod service and sub-par goods?

Honestly, folks. Disney is a business, not some sort of sacred cow. They should not be given a pass on poor service and/or bad attitudes because they are Disney, and it seems to me that saying, "Oh well, these things happen la de dah" is a bit of a cop-out.

Look, very few people want to spend precious vacation time complaining but sometimes it is necessary. For those that won't accept shoddy service and will calmly state their complaints, I say BRAVO! It's darn near a public service, for crying out loud. We have ADR's at Liberty Tree Tavern in a few weeks, and maybe the OP's complaints will have caused management to evaluate the situation and adjust as needed. In which case all of us who dine there post complaints will benefit, true?

Thanks for the heads up, OP.

As far as the DVC thing goes, so what if he played that card? Sometimes it takes a little hard ball to negotiate a succesful outcome. Please remember that Disney is a business--we may be called "guests" but the truth is we are staying there on our dime, not Disney's...and that makes us customers, and as a customer I expect to be treated fairly.

And ol' Mickey can take that to the bank.

 

[scottny]

Man! I'm new to this, been lurking awhile, and I have noticed anyone that dares suggest Disney has failed to perform up to a reasonable level always gets flamed and accused of trolling, etc by some posters. Is that fair? Is that even smart?

Aren't BBs the place to post concerns, ask questions, share info? And isn't that what the OP did? Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't accepting whatever we are given, and however we are treated--no matter how poorly--the surest way to ensure slip-shod service and sub-par goods?

Honestly, folks. Disney is a business, not some sort of sacred cow. They should not be given a pass on poor service and/or bad attitudes because they are Disney, and it seems to me that saying, "Oh well, these things happen la de dah" is a bit of a cop-out.

Look, very few people want to spend precious vacation time complaining but sometimes it is necessary. For those that won't accept shoddy service and will calmly state their complaints, I say BRAVO! It's darn near a public service, for crying out loud. We have ADR's at Liberty Tree Tavern in a few weeks, and maybe the OP's complaints will have caused management to evaluate the situation and adjust as needed. In which case all of us who dine there post complaints will benefit, true?

Thanks for the heads up, OP.

As far as the DVC thing goes, so what if he played that card? Sometimes it takes a little hard ball to negotiate a succesful outcome. Please remember that Disney is a business--we may be called "guests" but the truth is we are staying there on our dime, not Disney's...and that makes us customers, and as a customer I expect to be treated fairly.

And ol' Mickey can take that to the bank.

my problem is not Mickey taking it to the bank but the fact the server could not take her tip to the bank when the OP said she did a good job considering the circumstances. Do not take it out on the help, write a letter to corporate office and fight it there. They do not make much money (I know I was hired once) and it is not fair to them when they r trying to do there job as best as they can. As for playing the DVC card it was the wrong way to go about it in my eyes.

 

[boomhauer]

Not sure if this has been brought up yet, but if the OP has such a problem with the length of time to be served, lesson learned - Don't go to character meals. They're SUPPOSED to take a bt longer.

Secondly, people have to remember, ADR's are not guarenteed reservation times. They are a hold on the next available table closest to your time. Just because there were empty tables, doesn't mean they weren't being held for somoene else.

To each his own. Personally, when I'm on vacation and eating a meal, unless I have somewhere to be, I don't look at my watch and worry about how much time I'm spending. And if do have someplace to be, I wouldn't eat at a sit down restaurant anyways.

I agree, having to wait that long for drinks is unacceptable. I often find when you handle a problem with courtesy and politeness, t tends to get resolved. It doesn't seen like the OP handled things as such. Throwing insults and demands isn't going to get you anywhere.

Lastly, I just have a very hard time believing that Guest Relations at the MK said the server deserved her tip because she worked hard. Then they asked the OP what they were gonna do when he said he was gonna take the problem higher. That makes no sense at all and sounds nothing like anything that a CM would ever say.

 

[PlutoLuvr]

Well, I'm not going to apologize for Disney dropping the ball and treating a paying customer like garbage.

Good for you, OP, for speaking up. And I don't blame you one bit for using your DVC as leverage. We actually do own a timeshare in Orlando, even though we've always lived a couple hours away. After a lot of thought, one of the reasons we decided not to purchase DVC was because of Disney dining. The past few years, it's also one of the reasons why we don't even stay onsite anymore for quick weekend trips down to Orlando.

And I do agree that character meals might take a bit longer, but I *thought* I read where other people were seated at the same time as the OP's family and LTT did not drop the ball with them; they were served promptly. And while I don't stare at my watch and count the minutes while dining, I would notice if I'd been waiting so long for a table, was seated with one or two more groups simultaneously, and they were already being served their salads and rolls while I'm still waiting for my drinks. That's crappy service, period.

Also, I see time and time again on these very boards with the "tip discussions" about how many people the servers have to pay out at the end of the shift, that the server isn't left with the full gratuity. They have to pay out the bartenders, the busboys and even sometimes the host/hostess. If that's the case at WDW -- particularly in OP's case -- everyone who wasn't able to provide satisfactory service (heck, even just adequate service, IMO) was impacted by this.

This was a service issue. Service to me means not just the server who fills my drinks, clears my plates and brings food. Service begins from the time I check in until my bill is paid and everywhere in between. Yes, my waiter or waitress is on the "front line," so to speak, and I think part of their job is to keep a fire under their colleagues' butts about certain things, i.e., the busboys clearing dishes, making sure my order is correct from the kitchen, tabulating my bill correctly, seeing my water is low and having the waterboy/girl pay a visit to my table, etc. So, yeah, if I go to a restaurant and end up with a server who thinks their job starts and ends with nothing more than taking my order, dropping it off in the kitchen and bringing me my check, all the while other service-related issues arise, you can bet my server's tip will be impacted.

What other options did OP have? He could have just paid the service fee for crap service, sure. But if he did want to contest something, what could he have contested? We can't really expect to have a portion of the manager's pay for dropping the ball; the busboys are tipped out from the servers, so it makes sense to adjust the tip -- er, I mean service fee since the busboys dropped the ball; and maybe the server, in the future, will do what she needs to do to get adequate help. I don't see asking for a dish to be comped as there didn't appear to be complaints with the food or kitchen.

I mean, when I walk into a restaurant (including WDW), I see two things: Food and service. This was a service issue, and WDW has made a decision for a lot of its customers about an automatic 18 percent service fee. I see posts daily -- sometimes hourly depending on the "news du jour" -- about how if service is shoddy, contest the 18 percent service fee, don't pay it, fight it. Well, here someone did it when they received garbage service. Good for them.

 

[TLSnell1981]

It's obviously going to be difficult to contest.....if at all. Post#211
http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1633601&page=15

 

[maxiesmom]

What other choice did the OP have? They could have left! There are plenty of places to eat at Disney.

It is not acceptable to have to wait 35 minutes for you salad to arrive, but it is also not acceptable to deny a tip to a waitress that you see is working very hard! The OP admits that none of the problems they had were the waitress's fault, but that is who they choose to take their anger out on.

And what on earth do you expect the waitress to do to "get adequate help"? Go out on the street and grab people to help with the tables? That is ridiculous. I get comments like that all the time at the store I work at. People will be mad that I am the only one in my department, and that they have to wait for me to help them. Do you honestly think people choose to have to run themselves ragged? I know I would much rather have someone there to help me, but I have absolutely no say in who works or not. I'm sure it is the same for wait staff.

The OP did have a valid gripe, but punishing someone who you admit is trying their best is rotten. And throwing your weight around (I'm a DVC member) is distasteful as well.

 

[OhioDVC]

I really wish some of you would read!!!!!!!!!

The service was lousy overall!!

The service was significantly worst then the tables around us

It did not deserve a tip!!!!!!

The waitress worked hard but due to poor distribution of wait staff (Management Error) she provided poor service

I asked management to comp me the 18% tip so the waitress could still get her tip.

The WAITRESS DID GET ALL of the $47 of the tip

Management took the $47 out of Disney's huge take for the night

I DID THE RIGHT THING!!


I took care of the waitress making a couple of bucks an hour and identified a problem in the management of the restaurant to Disney so they could improve the service for everyone in the future.


I can't believe the attacks on this post. And to the idiot who thinks I have two log-ons--I don't--you are stupid! I know, you think Bush planned 9/11 too, right? Are you really Charlie Sheen?


Why do some of you ASSUME the worst about people. When talking to the restaurant manager and Guest relations - I never raised my voice, used foul language, or demanded special treatment because I'm a DVC member. I explained in a business like manor my compliant. When I didn't receive satisfaction, I used a time proven tactic....let the sales department know your dissatisfied and things will get corrected. Guest Relations REFUSED (initially) to make any adjustment. When they heard I was going to cancel a sale with DVC and make my complaint known through DVC sales department, they changed their minds immediately!!! ---- I wonder why? ------

I did this ONLY AFTER I GAVE the restaurant manager and Guest Relations every opportunity to correct their error!

To the person who says if I can afford $56,000 in points, I can afford a tip--Why? you tip for good service, not based on your income. PS I normally tip 20%-25% for good to excellent service in a resort area like WDW

Some of you need to get off the couch and get a job and work in the real world.

 

[TDC Nala]

Thread's run its course.