tempted to buy in, but is it worth it?

[JKMJ441724]

I've read that Disney Collection and DCL aren't good values on several threads, but why? It could be fun to try lots and lots of resorts and we very much want to try DCL. I can't imagine paying for DVC and having to give Disney more $ later oop. Am I off track here?

DCL - We went on the Disney Dream in June 2011. We are a family of 4 - 2 adults and 2 children. We got the lowest category room for 5 nights and paid cash. Our price was approximately $2400.

It would have "cost" us 432 points. My dues for that many points would have been $1,948.32 - a savings of $450 off our cash price.

But, I could have rented my points for $10 pp. which would have earned me $4,320.00. If I took the $4320 minus my dues leaves me with a PROFIT of $2,372.00 almost enough to completely cover the cost of my cruise and my dues are paid for the year.

 

[JimMIA]

It would have "cost" us 432 points.

For all FOUR of you? 108 points each sounds like a really good deal!

 

[DVCconvert]

For all FOUR of you? 108 points each sounds like a really good deal!

I just looked at the points chart and I think that could be right - for all 4....in a cat 11. I looked at the June '11 4 ngiht sailing.

 

[JKMJ441724]

But, I could have rented my points for $10 pp. which would have earned me $4,320.00. If I took the $4320 minus my dues leaves me with a PROFIT of $2,372.00 almost enough to completely cover the cost of my cruise and my dues are paid for the year.

For all FOUR of you? 108 points each sounds like a really good deal!

I guess it's all in how you look at it. I see the better deal as basically cruising for free and having dues paid by someone else. This was the scenario I used to decide if I would use my points or not for the cruise.

Of course, I did NOT rent out my points. I am still using them to go to WDW in October - MNSSHP here I come!!!


Dang that mouse, he really knows how to get in my pocketbook!!

 

[DMKEDM]

Has Disney reduced the minimum buy-in amount? When we bought, in 2006, for our first master contract we had to have at least 160 points. We could do 60 points as an add-on, but not as an initial buy-in (direct thru Disney).

I've heard in the years since then that there have been times when one could buy in with 100 points, but I hadn't heard it had gone below that???

It's certainly a factor to consider if in fact you want to start with 75 or 60 points...unless the rule has changed, Disney won't let you buy in, initially, for that small a number of points...

Good luck w/your choices!

 

[Splashboat]

When I spoke to someone from the Disney Vacation Club website last week I was told I could purchase an "introductory" 100 points at BLT, SSR or AKV

 

[johnsonville5]

Best thing we ever did vacation wise. Bought in 2000. Would have to really think hard about current prices.

 

[disneynutz]

Disney changes the rules as they see fit. If sales are slow and economic indicators tell them that people don't have disposable cash, they reduce the buy in. Disney knows that you can't do much with a smaller contract and they hope that you don't learn about resales when you are ready to buy your add on.

Bill

 

[abminer]

In your situation, my ranking of your options would be as follows:

1. Rent from DVC owners first, use codes and special promotions as a backup. This is going to give you the lowest cost overall, and with no obligation.
2. Buy resale. If you can reliably schedule and book vacations more than seven months in advance, AND where you stay matters a great deal to you, consider buying where you want to stay. If EITHER of those criteria don't fit you, buy at SSR or OKW for the lower buyin and considerably lower dues.
3. Buy direct. Personally, I would NOT do this...period. Honestly, if I HAD to buy DVC direct, I wouldn't purchase at all; I'd be looking at offsite options for a tiny fraction of the cost. I also think you might not be able to buy the small number of points you want direct as a new purchaser.

Cost comparisons:
Here's a look at cost comparisons for various resorts, including buying direct or resale at prevailing prices + your annual dues.

These calculations are based on two erroneous assumptions, but there is no other way I can think of to do an accurate comparison otherwise. The two assumptions are that you keep the contract until it expires (you won't), and if you resell it, you would net zero (that's not as far from reality as you think, but you'd almost certainly get something back if you sold after 15-20 years). Without those assumptions, we end up in a pointless argument about how long you'd REALLY keep your DVC and what you'd REALLY sell it for at that time.

Also, I used the current dues numbers. Obviously, these will increase a little over time.

My personal opinion that the assumption of keeping the contract to expiration yields a substantial UNDER-estimate of overall costs. In other words, I think the true costs would be somewhat higher than I show below.

BCV -- Direct price $115, resale price for a small contract about $82, dues $5.28 per point.

There are actually only 30 years left (because the 2042 contracts expire in Jan 2042), so $115/30 = $3.83 per point acquisition cost. Dues are currently $5.28 per point, so your net per-point cost would be $9.11...which is QUITE high. If you buy a 60-point contract and go every other year, the cost of those 120 points will be $1,093.60. For somewhat less than that, you could get a TWO BEDROOM for an entire week offsite, and have no ongoing obligation.

BCV resale -- At $82, your acquisition cost is $2.73 + $5.28 dues = $8.01 (still quite high), and your vacation cost for 120 points would be $961.60.

BWV -- Direct price $115 or $3.83 per point + $5.46 dues = $9.29 X 120 points = $1,114.80.

BWV resale @ $60 for a small contract is $2.00 per point acquisition cost + $5.46 dues = $7.46 X 120 = $895.20...still well north of what you can get a 2 BR for an entire week for offsite.

OKW -- $99 direct price is $3.30 per point acquisition cost + $4.98 dues = $8.28 X 120 = $993.60.

OKW resale @$60 is $2.00 acquisition cost + $4.98 dues = $6.98 X 120 = $837.60.

SSR -- SSR has an expiration date of 2057 (45 years), so the acquisition calculations will be a little different. Direct price of $99 is $2.20 per point acquisition cost + $4.51 dues = $6.71 X 120 = $805.20.

SSR resale at $65 = $1.44 acquisition cost + $4.51 dues = $5.95 X 120 = $714.53...or about the same as you'll pay for a 2 bedroom offsite for a week.

THANK YOU JimMIA! I couldn't have figured out all of that myself and really appreciate you doing it for me.

We'd already decided that after our upcoming trip we will rent DVC points next time. We've never stayed in DVC accommodations or even in regular rooms at BWI or BC, which really are the only ones we're interested in since we are world showcase junkies. Location is very important to us. Hopefully a stay will clarify whether we should really watch the resale market for a chance to buy in.

We will never stay offsite if I can help it, but when times are tight, like our upcoming trip, we can handle the cheaper WDW accomodations if that is what we need to do to go at all. Our upcoming trip we're at Pop with free dining. Even if we'd decided again the dining plan, we had a 30% PIN. I very much prefer the deluxes, but I'll take what I can get.

After reading all this, it's clear we shouldn't buy right now because that's a lot of $$$!

Has Disney reduced the minimum buy-in amount? When we bought, in 2006, for our first master contract we had to have at least 160 points. We could do 60 points as an add-on, but not as an initial buy-in (direct thru Disney).

I've heard in the years since then that there have been times when one could buy in with 100 points, but I hadn't heard it had gone below that???

It's certainly a factor to consider if in fact you want to start with 75 or 60 points...unless the rule has changed, Disney won't let you buy in, initially, for that small a number of points...

Good luck w/your choices!

I thought 160 was the minimum too, but it was the sales guy who suggested a 60 point contract when I told him we usually went just the two of us every other year. He said they've always negotiated smaller contracts directly - they just list the rec'd points for the average family online. He started out pushing SSR, but I made it clear I wasn't interested and that Epcot resorts appealed to me most and he suggested BCV!

 

[JimMIA]

THANK YOU JimMIA! I couldn't have figured out all of that myself and really appreciate you doing it for me.

I'll send you a bill.

We'd already decided that after our upcoming trip we will rent DVC points next time. We've never stayed in DVC accommodations or even in regular rooms at BWI or BC, which really are the only ones we're interested in since we are world showcase junkies. Location is very important to us. Hopefully a stay will clarify whether we should really watch the resale market for a chance to buy in.

Just so you know...I'm not normally a "buy where you want to stay" guy. But that's because I think it's a cliche' that people accept without actually thinking it through.

Keep in mind that there are TWO criteria (in my feeble brain) for buying where you want to stay. One is that it really matters where you stay -- it matters a lot to you, doesn't to me.

The other, however, is equally important: to USE your home resort advantage you have to reliably book early in the 11-month window.

If you want either Standard view or Boardwalk view at BWV, or BWV or BCV during Food & Wine...you'd better be able to book very, very early in the 11-month window. It would be a shame to pay those prices and dues and still NOT be able to get what you want.

If you can't book at 11 months, then I'd buy where I wouldn't be disappointed to stay. For me personally, that would be OKW...even though many consider SSR a better value.

After reading all this, it's clear we shouldn't buy right now because that's a lot of $$$!

You know, that's a statement that many posters make with a tinge of sadness. But to those of us who have been here for a while, that's a sign of maturity and common sense. To anybody, anywhere, considering ANY timeshare, I would say if you're not really SURE...don't.

Take your time and be sure.

Yeah, it often works out. People look back and say, "WHOA...what a genius am I! This was the best thing I've ever done!"

And they're right.

But we also see posts like this (from another website):

*****
"Help!! Desperate!!

"We can no longer to pay our timeshare loan... We simply cannot do it!! And of course, no one is going to assume our loan, and we can't sell it for $Xk and still owe $XXk!

"Will ***** do anything to bargain and get out of paying for a foreclosure?? Cut the interest in half?? Cut the principle in half?? Buy it back??

"Otherwise, have YOU gone through a foreclosure for a timeshare you couldn't afford?? Personal advice and stories about what **** did to you (and how long this ruined your credit for) would be greatly appreciated."
*****

That quote is NOT about DVC. It sort of goes downhill from there, so I'll spare you.

I think all of us are happy to hear someone really thinking things through and deciding "this moment in time is just not the time." DVC will be here when you are ready.

 

[JimMIA]

He started out pushing SSR, but I made it clear I wasn't interested and that Epcot resorts appealed to me most and he suggested BCV!

WOW! What a guy!

He probably went:

"Okay, lemme see. They're NOT buying SSR.

Should I recommend BWV -- which recently cleared ROFR at $48, and I'm selling at $115?

Or should I recommend BCV, which I know we'll ROFR at $80, and I have a MUCH better chance of actually SELLING?"

That's just a timeshare salesman trying to get in your wallet -- nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Cruelladeville]

IMHO you need to begin by renting points from a member. You said that you would plan by staying 4 days at Disney. If you had a trip to Florida next week, think about this: You arrive in Florida around 11;30 AM, an hour on the bus to your resort, and check in--2:00, and you don't get keys till 4, so you will want to get lunch, and look around. Once you get your key, you go to your room, wait for Bell services, and head for the store, then dinner, and it's 7:00. Your first day is nearly done, and you haven't even been to one of the parks yet! If you allow only one day per park, you are going to need nearly 6 days, and you haven't even gone to the other resorts!! I did exactly the same thing when we planned our first trip to Florida. I thought 5 days at Disney was a huge amount of time You should plan to visit only 2 parks per trip, and are you OK with not using the amenities at your resort? You won't have time for that. Take a trip to try out your plan before buying, you may decide that your plan needs revising.

 

[disneynutz]

I am a buy where you love to stay guy. Today it may not matter but what about tomorrow? For someone buying a 40 or 50 year contract that they intend to keep, it may be important.

F&W didn't exist at one time, same with F&G, Star Wars, Pop Warner, marathons, Eat to the beat, MK hard ticket events, free dining, etc. Who knows what Disney will do in the future to fill the place up. The slow times aren't as slow as they once were, plus now we have members buying Aulani and VGC who will be booking at WDW resorts increasing the competition at 7 months.

Nothing worse after paying thousands of dollars than to have to settle for a resort that you don't like, just because it's all that's available.

Bill

 

[Wedgeh]

I am a buy where you love to stay guy. Today it may not matter but what about tomorrow? For someone buying a 40 or 50 year contract that they intend to keep, it may be important.
...

Bill

Amen to that. I know that a lot of people think about how much they will 'save' with DVC (like my wife tells me how much she 'saved' on her new shoes ), but for me it's a luxury purchase that ought to make you smile each time you take a trip (or book one, or think about one for that matter). All of the resorts will cost you a great deal in MFs above and beyond the purchase price over the course of the contract, so you've got to love where you own imho.

Edit - Of course JimMIA is correct in pointing out that this assumes booking over 7 months out is not an issue to you. I come over from the UK so last minute trips were not in my consideration, but ymmv.

 

[abminer]

IMHO you need to begin by renting points from a member. You said that you would plan by staying 4 days at Disney. If you had a trip to Florida next week, think about this: You arrive in Florida around 11;30 AM, an hour on the bus to your resort, and check in--2:00, and you don't get keys till 4, so you will want to get lunch, and look around. Once you get your key, you go to your room, wait for Bell services, and head for the store, then dinner, and it's 7:00. Your first day is nearly done, and you haven't even been to one of the parks yet! If you allow only one day per park, you are going to need nearly 6 days, and you haven't even gone to the other resorts!! I did exactly the same thing when we planned our first trip to Florida. I thought 5 days at Disney was a huge amount of time You should plan to visit only 2 parks per trip, and are you OK with not using the amenities at your resort? You won't have time for that. Take a trip to try out your plan before buying, you may decide that your plan needs revising.

Trust me, I've been 8 times so I know exactly how much time I need and how to cover ground. A 4 night/5 day trip gives us time in each park to see what's new, ride a few faves, and have some good TS food. Actually, the first time I took DBF (his first trip ever), we did 3 nights/4 days and he got to experience all four parks and ride most of the headliners. I know the parks like the back of my hand. I'm a commando touring plan master when need be. That said, this next time we're at WDW to attend a wedding and are planning to take it easy and have fun with the bridal party .

Edit - Of course JimMIA is correct in pointing out that this assumes booking over 7 months out is not an issue to you. I come over from the UK so last minute trips were not in my consideration, but ymmv.

Most of my trips have been planned a year or more in advance, but our last two have been only a few months ahead. I understand that with short notice there could be limited DVC availability, I would hope though that there would be availability at one of the resorts, if not our first choice(s). Is it possible that absolutely no DVC accommodations would be available for a member?

 

[Deb & Bill]

... I understand that with short notice there could be limited DVC availability, I would hope though that there would be availability at one of the resorts, if not our first choice(s). Is it possible that absolutely no DVC accommodations would be available for a member?

Yes, it is possible. You might get a single night here, another single night there and no others.

 

[Sammie]

Yes at times, at short notice everything could be sold out.

 

[DVCconvert]

Is it possible that absolutely no DVC accommodations would be available for a member?

It sure is, you see that with some frequnecy here on these boards.

 

[Granny]

Most of my trips have been planned a year or more in advance, but our last two have been only a few months ahead. I understand that with short notice there could be limited DVC availability, I would hope though that there would be availability at one of the resorts, if not our first choice(s). Is it possible that absolutely no DVC accommodations would be available for a member?

As noted by others, there are times of the year that are completely sold out months in advance. If you want to book only a few months ahead, you will want to avoid those times. Mostly those are the usual WDW peak seasons plus Marathon weekend in January and most of the period Thanksgiving thru the end of the year.

Of course, you can be placed on a wait list since DVC members do cancel and change reservations fairly often. But I wouldn't want to rely on that year after year.

It's easier to book a reservation at 11 months when you think you will be able to go. You can always cancel it if those dates don't work, keeping in mind your banking deadlines.

 

[Pennyguy23]

Buy it