Tell me about HOAs

[Marseeya]

I rent, so this is just for my own curiosity. The only things I've heard about Home Owners Associations have been very negative, so I'm curious as to what the benefits are to them.

First of all, how are they legal? How can an HOA form in your neighborhood and force you to comply with some of the standards they set? For example, a friend of mine was talking about a neighborhood with an HOA that wouldn't allow certain play sets in the yards. How do they actually enforce their rules?

I'm interested in hearing what you all have to tell me about them.

 

[icebrat001]

Thanks for starting this thread!

 

[mickeyfan1]

Yes, HOAs are legal. When you buy a home in a community with an HOA, you are agreeing to abide by the rules. The example you gave, the HOA would probably first send a letter to the home owner siting the rule and advising them they have X amount of days to come into compliance or there will be further action. In most cases further action can include removal of the offending item (provided there is a stipulation in the HOAs regulations), or filing suit against the offending homeowner. If it goes to court, the homeowner will loose. Always. Unless the state passes a law which overrides the HOA, HOAs rule.

HOAs can be run by power hungry residents, but those people can be forced out of office by elections. There are usually committees to oversee things with in the community, and then the HOA board of directors. I have lived in HOA communities several times. They tend to keep the communities in better repair, they can enforce rules regarding paint colours on the outside of your home, fencing, etc. I lived in a non HOA community for 8.5 years and I wish that there had been an HOA, my neighbors were P I G hogs! No grass in the yard, parking cars on the dirt, no regard for trash neing left all over. Fortuneately we lived in a city with rules about most of it, but it required the neighbors to complain to the city before the city would enforce the rules.

If you don't want to have people telling you what you can and can't do in your yard or in regards to the look of your home, be very careful of buying a house in and HOA community.

 

[disykat]

For small HOA's the only way to "force" is peer pressure. We don't have the money to legally force people, though we do have the right. When you move into a neighborhood and sign off on covenants agreeing to a set of rules, it is a sort of insurance that the neighborhood will not get too run down. Our small HOA (27 homes) pays dues simply to keep a light lit at the entrance and keep up the landscaping at the entrance. If no one did, it would simply be dark and go eventually go back to overgrown.

We discussed disbanding because it is sometimes hard to find volunteers, but decided the added curb appeal, safety, etc. was worth the effort of a yearly meeting, dues, and maintaining public spaces. For us, the goal of continuing our HOA was keeping home values up.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

I am a former trustee of an HOA...

HOA's are necessary to keep your subdivision looking good, required maintenence, insurance, upkeep, problems, etc...

Enforcement varies....READ YOUR HOA RULES prior to buying a house. They don't usually have them available, ask.

Just because you see something out, like a boat trailer, means that it is allowed. Or the HOA stinks and does not keep up.
Hard to tell....We found that how are rules were written some were not enforceable in the courts.

When you buy a house you are agreeing to the HOA rules whether you see them or not. The burden is on the buyer to find out the information in most cases.

 

[Ronda93]

I live in a relatively new (<10 year old) development that does not have an HOA. Boy, do I wish it did. Boats parked in the driveway - I'm all for fishing, but this boat hasn't moved in the seven years I've lived here. There's a van that has inexplicably started parking in the grass near a creek. In fact, it looks like it's parked in a "public" area. Just beyond the property line of the nearest lot.

Tipped over basketball goals and unfinished home improvements linger in yards and driveways. Homes that could REALLY use a paint job. There is one jarringly purple house a few blocks away.

I know this sounds petty and snobbish, but it affects my investment. It's my first home. While I don't relish the possibility of dealing with petty tyrants on an HOA board, I'll make sure my next home is in a developent with an organization to enforce the things that will preserve home values... wooden fencing, in-ground pools, color requirements, no RVs parked in front of homes, no boats or trailers full of ATVs with flat tires.

ETA: HOAs don't spring into existence after you buy. Normally the developer handles the start up and enforcement. When the development is complete it's turned over to the residents. It should never come as a surprise to find your home is covered by HOA agreements.

 

[barkley]

if a hoa is not established for a subdivision also check to see if there are any existing CC&R's (covenants, codes and restrictions). our subdivision finished up construction around 5 years ago and alot of the houses have sold over and over-i doubt many of the new owners are aware of the cc&r's that were present (and still legaly enforcable in civil court) when the neighborhood was established.

the cc&r's can be in direct opposition to city laws (our city has no restrictions on rv parking or what is parked in a back yard-the cc&r's for our neighborhood have a no rv parking clause and nothing can be parked in a back yard that extends over the top of the fence line, our city has no restriction on clothes lines-our cc&r's have a strick "no clothes lines-visable or not" clause). the newer residents in our area have done construction to garages (changing them from a 3 car to a 2 car and a rec room) that the city has signed off on but a savy existing neighbor aware of the cc&r's could get a court order requiring to have it returned to it's original state (reads that no garage can be wholy or partialy coverted to living space). people are simply lucky that by and large unless it becomes an eyesore issue noone ever speaks up about it.

before buying anyplace i would look at what the prevailing city and county laws, restrictions and provisions are-then also search and secure what the prevailing cc&r's are.

 

[Tanuki]

My development has an HOA but it is an "infill" subdivision surrounded by an older neighborhood without one. It may be too late for them to establish one 40 years later but there was one house on one street which was practically an advertisment for covenants.

Just so you can imagine it - this was about a half acre lot with a four bedroom split level on it.

Every type of recreational thing (jet skis, ATV, motocross bike) just parked over at the side of the house where they had an asphalt pad poured for extra parking - this led down to the street to give the house two driveways.

They sold puppies so they put a little pen out in the front yard with a sign on it "puppies for sale" and had them out in the yard all day. For months - not just because their dog had an accidental litter.

Then they got one of those PODS storage things and had it parked in the driveway for about six months.

This replaced the specially painted carrier for the guy's motocross bike with his name and number in his racing colors which was parked to the side of one of their driveways for at least two years.

If you think covenants are a pain - imagine having to put your house up for sale next to that mess.

 

[pjshaff]

Tanuki,

whereabouts in Atlanta do you live?

 

[Marseeya]

ETA: HOAs don't spring into existence after you buy. Normally the developer handles the start up and enforcement. When the development is complete it's turned over to the residents. It should never come as a surprise to find your home is covered by HOA agreements.

But this is what I don't get. When you're buying a house, don't you ultimately own the land that it's on? How does an HOA factor into that legally? Do they have any ownership in the developments? Is it an actual legal entity?

Personally, I probably wouldn't ever live in a development, even though I think the homes are beautiful. Most of my friends do, but they've always had problems. I grew up in a very old neighborhood and that's just what I'm used to. Boats in driveways, odd looking sheds, things like that are just a fact of life and nothing to sweat over. I'm just not the type to need manicured lawns and ticky ticky tack.

 

[hiwaygal]

Our HOA is useless...completely useless. I will never live in a community with an HOA again, if I can help it.

 

[ducklite]

I'm living in my second HOA community. The first one had weak bylaws and poor management.

The one I'm in now I've got two different HOA's to deal with, but I don't mind. The rules and regs are common sense stuff, keep you lawn moved, no parkign of oversized vehicles, don't paint your house purple, that' type of thing.

The first HOA overses the entire master plan, which is about 800 houses when all are complete. The second is just for the 30 some houses in our subdivision...frankly the president is moving and I think it's going to be hard to find someone to replace him--no one is going to want the job LOL! We all do what is supposed to be done (I think 80% of us use the same lawn guy for that matter). My neighbor parks his boat in his driveway for a day or two sometimes, I don't care, I know it's not going to stay there. We are supposed to have an architectural review committee in place, and again, no one wants to deal with it. With 30 houses, we all know each other and understand what is expected of us as homeowners, and just do the right thing.

I guess it depends on the neighbors as well. In the last place I lived, there were some renters with absentee landlords who just didn't care (not all the renters were problems!). Homes were on the modest side pricewise, and there were a lot of people newer to this country and from cultures that lived differently than "white picket fence America" (trying to be very PC here.)

Where we are now, the homes are expensive. Mine is the smallest in the neighborhood, but there are at least half a dozen worth well over $1M. People seem to care more about the upkeep of their home, the curb appeal. We have people from different countries and ethnic groups, but they are very different than the ones I had as neighbors in NJ as far as how they live and how they keep their property.

Anne

 

[RadioNate]

I have mixed feelings about our HOA. On one hand I like the 'protection' the provide but as a frequent target I lothe them.

Last August we were called out of town on for a family emergency, we returned to a failure to comply notice on Sunday so we did lawn work, weeded mowed etc the following Wednesday I found out that I had a misscarriage, thursday I had surgery and friday we got another failure to comply notice so again we did lawn work. Saturday we left for vacation and returned the following Friday to another notice. When we called the HOA no one would come and tell us exactly what was wrong with our yard just that we weren't complying with community standards. This went on for weeks. After they threatened to take us to court we had our lawyer draft a letter requesting a meeting with the committee head to go over specific problems. We got no reply from the HOA and the voilation notices stopped.

We've also gotten notices because we've left our trash cans out. The kicker is that the inspection was done on our pick up day! Of course our cans would be out!

I think there couoldbe a better balance. We seen to live in a very strict community. Our last HOA community was effective yet didn't rule with an iron fist!

 

[arminnie]

But this is what I don't get. When you're buying a house, don't you ultimately own the land that it's on? How does an HOA factor into that legally? Do they have any ownership in the developments? Is it an actual legal entity?

The HOA agreement should be part of the legal documents associated with the act of sale. When I've purchased property with a HOA I was given a copy of the rules, budget, etc. before closing. At closing part of the agreement was to abide by rules, assessments, etc of the HOA.

 

[drakethib]

I like the fact that my neighborhood has a HOA.

Nothing is worse then working hard to keep your place looking nice then all of a sudden some one down the street brings a jalopy car or doesn't cut their grass and make the whole neighborhood look like crapola.

 

[Miller1412]

But this is what I don't get. When you're buying a house, don't you ultimately own the land that it's on? How does an HOA factor into that legally? Do they have any ownership in the developments? Is it an actual legal entity?

Personally, I probably wouldn't ever live in a development, even though I think the homes are beautiful. Most of my friends do, but they've always had problems. I grew up in a very old neighborhood and that's just what I'm used to. Boats in driveways, odd looking sheds, things like that are just a fact of life and nothing to sweat over. I'm just not the type to need manicured lawns and ticky ticky tack.

I don't know exactly how it works legally, but DH is the co-president of our HOA and he has had to report a couple of things to the county. The county does back up the HOA and if they have to come out and cut grass, they will bill the homeowner so they must have a legal precedent to do that, right?

Our HOA has several strict rules that were enforced when the community was first built, but went several years with no organization, therefore, everyone did whatever they wanted. We moved in a few years ago when they were trying to get it up and running again. DH and our neighbor agreed to be co-presidents (being the "newbies"- they were suckers!) Now it's a mess because some people have already erected fences, built sheds, etc. without approval, so the question is, do they get grandfathered in? Can you enforce with other people if some blatently broke the HOA bylaws? It's been really trick for DH and he can't wait to be done his term!

 

[clarabelle]

Our HOA does some fun things as well
Neighborhood parties, newsletters, all the kids go to the club house before trick or treating and get their pics made together.
We have a neighborhood directory and a welcome wagon. The Covenants can be a pain -but the neighborhood looks good and the neighborhood is very desirable.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

I don't know exactly how it works legally, but DH is the co-president of our HOA and he has had to report a couple of things to the county. The county does back up the HOA and if they have to come out and cut grass, they will bill the homeowner so they must have a legal precedent to do that, right?

Now it's a mess because some people have already erected fences, built sheds, etc. without approval, so the question is, do they get grandfathered in? Can you enforce with other people if some blatently broke the HOA bylaws? It's been really trick for DH and he can't wait to be done his term!

Everything depends on those HOA rules/covenants/indentures/whatever you call them...

With the grass issue that can be a city/county issue so they will enforce that pretty easily. Don't usually need an HOA for that.

As far as people building things when no HOA was enforced, I would say you are up a creek, esp if it is "years".

If you take someone to court the judge will throw it out more than likely. The is why HOA's have the reputation for being "mean" but there is legal stuff behind it, if they allow things to go on and ignore it.

You can consult an attorney and they will tell you the deal. However they are darn expensive, for sure.

 

[barkley]

i have to laugh at the concept of "the purple house" there was a planned community in a nearby town that had a hoa from day one with very strickt guidelines on how houses could be landscaped, exterior ornamentation, paint colors....a resident went and painted their house PURPLE (not a variation, but crayola crayon purple). the residents were up in arms, the hoa threw a fit and had their lawyers demand the homeowner repaint to the "earthtone" exterior paint mandate in the hoa contract...ended up in court and the homeowner's lawyer won the case based on the wording of the hoa contract- it only specified "earthtones"-purple is the color of grapes, grapes come from the earth-therefore "purple is an earthtone".

it was on the local news for months

 

[The Mystery Machine]

.ended up in court and the homeowner's lawyer won the case based on the wording of the hoa contract- it only specified "earthtones"-purple is the color of grapes, grapes come from the earth-therefore "purple is an earthtone".

Yep...the "rules" need to be specific. No purple has to be on there for a judge to enforce it.