Technical Flaw in the Waitlist System?

[maburke]

Of course it's too much to ask that waitlists are filled in real time. Matching them 1x per day is ridiculous. We just got our first waitlist filled after only 2 days, so I know the waitlist works at times, but the fact that they don't do it in real time, is ridiculous, IMHO.

Tiger

Without getting into the definition of NP complete I think the problem comes down to this: if, when a room was cancelled, the wait list was immediately checked for a match, it would often go to a person waiting for that one day, even if someone waiting for multiple days was higher on the list. Then the chance of getting a multi-day wait list would be very small. (You'd only get it if someone cancelled exactly the same nights you wanted.) If, on the other hand, to increase the chance that multiple days came together, they waited and only matched at the end of the day, there is a chance that someone phoning would grab the room before they matched it against the wait list.

The solution is to hold all cancelled rooms and not let them be booked until the end of the day when cancellations are Mather against the wait list. But that is waaaayyy too subtle for DVC IT.

 

[SamSam]

I often get 'attitude' when I call to check on a wait list. The cm will say 'no, it's not came through yet' and when I say "will you please check to see if it happens to available?", I get the response "it won't do any good, it's automatic".

Do you ask to check on your wait list, or do you just call and check availability for the night your waiting on?

 

[LouisianaDisneyFan]

Do you ask to check on your wait list, or do you just call and check availability for the night your waiting on?

I don't even mention I'm waitlisted when I call. I just ask if there is availability for what I want. I was able to get one of my waitlisted nights that way, and honestly one night is better than none... so I jumped on it. The waitlist is now attached to that reservation. I'll continue calling daily until either (1) I'm notified by Disney that they've filled my request, (2) I get what I want, or (3) they somehow disconnect my phone. =P

 

[Dean]

Without getting into the definition of NP complete I think the problem comes down to this: if, when a room was cancelled, the wait list was immediately checked for a match, it would often go to a person waiting for that one day, even if someone waiting for multiple days was higher on the list. Then the chance of getting a multi-day wait list would be very small. (You'd only get it if someone cancelled exactly the same nights you wanted.) If, on the other hand, to increase the chance that multiple days came together, they waited and only matched at the end of the day, there is a chance that someone phoning would grab the room before they matched it against the wait list.

The solution is to hold all cancelled rooms and not let them be booked until the end of the day when cancellations are Mather against the wait list. But that is waaaayyy too subtle for DVC IT.

Apparently their system won't hold rooms in this way

 

[Mich Mouse]

I often get 'attitude' when I call to check on a wait list. The cm will say 'no, it's not came through yet' and when I say "will you please check to see if it happens to available?", I get the response "it won't do any good, it's automatic".

QUOTE]


We must have spoke to the same CM.

 

[Snurk71]

I've worked quite a bit with inventory systems. And while a real time system like members would like for the wait list process would be nice, a real time system that would run through the waitlists with a cancellation would likely be very intensive processing and slow the overall system down beyond usefulness. This sounds like a situation when using a batch process when the system is down overnight makes sense.

Since there are a lot of individual reports of inconsistent waitlist results, it makes me think that either the batch program isn't run every night (maybe weekly?), someone has to kick off the batch program and doesn't every night (whoops!!), or the program is limited to what it can systematically accomplish so there is a waitlist team that periodically fills waitlists manually that didn't system-fulfill.

I kind of like the idea of putting the cancelled room into a holding category (available, pending/holding, unavailable) for fulfilling the waitlists. But as a business you would probably rather not park that inventory to the side to see IF a waitlist is needed when you have another customer willing to take/buy the inventory - from a company perspective you'd rather take the sure order than what might be.

 

[hkeller27]

Hmmmm....this is all fascinatingly...disappointing. I am on the WL for the first time. We made a last minute change in our plans, which resulted in missing the 11 month home booking period. So we are WL'ed now. After reading this, I think I'll be scheduling in a daily phone call to MS. I didn't think the WL was a well run system. I mean, a confirmation in the mail? In this day and age? Ugh.

 

[tjkraz]

It's a shame that the waitlist process wasn't programmed better from the get-go...back in the days when DVC was all wine & roses and sofa throw pillows and colored bath towels. I can understand them not having on-line reservation capabilities 10 years ago, but most of the other IT issues we are stuck with today could have been prevented by better management back in 1990/91.

Someone used the phrase "DVC IT." DVC doesn't really have its own IT department. The have to request resources from Disney's IT staff and wait in line for projects to be completed. Projects like the on-line reservations, emailing of confirmations and other improvements with more global benefits will undoubtedly get priority in the coming years.

My understanding is that the waitlist uses a batch system to process matches multiple times per day. Doing it in real-time may seem preferable, but it would also come with its share of shortcomings. For instance, let's say that I'm waiting for 7 nights. Someone cancels the first 3 nights at 9am and another member cancels the other 4 nights a 11am. If the batch process is run at 12pm, I should get all of my nights off of the waitlist. But with realtime matching, the first 3 nights could easily have passed to someone else further down the list as soon as the cancellation was processed since it didn't match my waitlist request.

Putting canceled rooms on hold until the batch is run is probably the best way to handle it, but then you are tying up a lot of inventory for hours on end.

Every so often there's a post like this from a member who called and got their room booked before it came through on the waitlist. But even with the current flawed system, it's entirely possible that the match would have been made even if the member had not called. Successful waitlist matches occur FAR more than these occasional "lucky" phone calls.

 

[d-r]

fwiw its always worked for us

 

[dbs1228]

Question how much "movement" occurs in existing ressies when you hit the 7 month window? If your resort is sold out in all catagories for your dates what are the chances of a waitlist to come through? (my case I have a 1 bedroom for 4 nights at BLT and now our friends are traveling with us so we are waitlisted for a 2 bedroom) We actually have nothing for the 1st night so we are looking at getting either a 1 bedroom for the 1st night (Dec 10) or getting a 2 bedroom for all nights.

I plan to keep calling but it only makes sense to me that around the 7 month mark things will move around a bit. Please note I would not mind a split stay and my heart is not set on BLT since we are staying there in Feb it just happens to be home resort and I could grab something before 7 months and of course well after the 11 month. Just curious of others experience and any tips? (I know Dec is a tough time!)

 

[Tiger926]

Thanks to those who explained possible issues with real time waitlist matches. That way might not work, and the current system is problematic, so, what next?

Seriously, matching 1x per day, or several times per week is silly, since people are still calling. So, MS is having to do more work on this. We've called several times, and got our reservation as well, and felt badly for the people ahead of us on the waitlist. We then cancelled our current waitlist - this is all a make-work project, IMHO.

There has got to be a better, more fair, and efficient way of doing waitlists...Tiger

 

[cseca]

Be careful what we ask for.

DVC has the tendency to "improve" or "enhance" the system for members benefit that ended up being a PITA. For example reducing the WL to 2 at a time (even if you have more than 2 vacations or 2 rooms booked), or banking deadline change, point charts changes...

Love my DVC but everytime I see a post or email for "improvements or enhancements for MY benefit" update I cringe...

 

[dcfromva]

It's a shame that the waitlist process wasn't programmed better from the get-go...back in the days when DVC was all wine & roses and sofa throw pillows and colored bath towels.

And yet, I can remember a time in the not too distant past (before the system was "enhanced" apparently at DVC members "request" )where the system did provide for an option for either:
1. day by day match or for a string of dates,
2. call first before matching or automatic match
and for as many different resorts as you wanted..... Which seems to me to be even more complicated than what is currently allowed.

 

[tjkraz]

DVC has the tendency to "improve" or "enhance" the system for members benefit that ended up being a PITA. For example reducing the WL to 2 at a time (even if you have more than 2 vacations or 2 rooms booked), or banking deadline change, point charts changes...

Problem is no change ever impacts all members identically.

You can certainly bet that there are people who are glad that they now have a full 8 months to bank 100% of their points. For years both members and non-members have questioned why weekends cost more than 2x the cost of a weekday night, and many people have benefited from the reallocation.

As for the waitlist changes, the idea was to make the waitlists shorter and increase the odds of success. In all likelihood, the people most hurt by that change are those in the "I own at ___ but never want to stay there" crowd.

Imagine you want to stay at the BoardWalk and ask to be placed on the waitlist. With unlimited requests permitted, you could easily be in line behind someone who has similar waitlist requests for every room category at 5 or 6 different resorts. With members forced to choose just two resorts/categories for their waitlist requests, each list should be much smaller.

And yet, I can remember a time in the not too distant past (before the system was "enhanced" apparently at DVC members "request" )where the system did provide for an option for either:
1. day by day match or for a string of dates,
2. call first before matching or automatic match
and for as many different resorts as you wanted..... Which seems to me to be even more complicated than what is currently allowed.

I don't recall DVC ever referring to those changes as "enhancements," but I could be wrong there. Nevertheless, eliminating item #2 was certainly a cost saving measure. It's just not a sustainable procedure to keep placing those phone calls when managing hundreds-of-thousands of members.

As for #1, that probably plays into the limit of two active waitlists per account. Ultimately it results in shorter waitlists (which should translate into increased success--or at least more realistic expectations) and less administrative overhead.

 

[sean-1966]

Hmmmmm, this makes me think. We're waiting on a Magic Kingdom view BLT studio for 2 nights in Sept. Maybe I should be calling daily???

 

[Mich Mouse]

Hmmmmm, this makes me think. We're waiting on a Magic Kingdom view BLT studio for 2 nights in Sept. Maybe I should be calling daily???

It can't hurt to call....just ask the CM to check the dates for you. By calling I was able to get 2 nights at BLT in August...which is how this thread started.

 

[cseca]

Problem is no change ever impacts all members identically.

You can certainly bet that there are people who are glad that they now have a full 8 months to bank 100% of their points. For years both members and non-members have questioned why weekends cost more than 2x the cost of a weekday night, and many people have benefited from the reallocation.

As for the waitlist changes, the idea was to make the waitlists shorter and increase the odds of success. In all likelihood, the people most hurt by that change are those in the "I own at ___ but never want to stay there" crowd.

Imagine you want to stay at the BoardWalk and ask to be placed on the waitlist. With unlimited requests permitted, you could easily be in line behind someone who has similar waitlist requests for every room category at 5 or 6 different resorts. With members forced to choose just two resorts/categories for their waitlist requests, each list should be much smaller.

...

I agree completely that no change could benefit all members.
But the limit WL to 2 I think was not a good change at all. If you make ressie for more than 2 rooms and try to waitlist for another resort or even additional days you are SOL. Because apparently they treat each room as a separate waitlist.
Now I heard about this new enhanced reservation system that says ALL the rooms will be under 1 reservation, I don't know if that means any waitlist related to that reservation will be considered 1 or separate.

Also if you have more than 2 vacations and somehow you are unlucky enough to need waitlist for them then you are stuck with picking 2 out of your # of vacations to waitlist.

Because of this newish WL rule I am a complete believer in:
1. Buy where you want to stay advice/rule
2. DVC is best for advance planner or if you are an easy goer who doesn't mind staying wherever is available.

I still like my DVC ownership, but I hope future enhancements don't affect our membership so much that it made it harder for us to use the points.

 

[crisi]

I've worked quite a bit with inventory systems. And while a real time system like members would like for the wait list process would be nice, a real time system that would run through the waitlists with a cancellation would likely be very intensive processing and slow the overall system down beyond usefulness. This sounds like a situation when using a batch process when the system is down overnight makes sense.

Since there are a lot of individual reports of inconsistent waitlist results, it makes me think that either the batch program isn't run every night (maybe weekly?), someone has to kick off the batch program and doesn't every night (whoops!!), or the program is limited to what it can systematically accomplish so there is a waitlist team that periodically fills waitlists manually that didn't system-fulfill.

I kind of like the idea of putting the cancelled room into a holding category (available, pending/holding, unavailable) for fulfilling the waitlists. But as a business you would probably rather not park that inventory to the side to see IF a waitlist is needed when you have another customer willing to take/buy the inventory - from a company perspective you'd rather take the sure order than what might be.

The hold system is what they should do, and since DVC is not a traditional business that might loose out on a sale, it doesn't have much business impact. The person calling has the choice to go on the waitlist, and if there is no one else there, gets the room the next day. But they haven't apparently done that.

The other thing I dislike about the lack of the rooms going into hold is that it sometimes makes availability seem like something it isn't....the stories of "I didn't have any problem getting a Boardwalk View four months out from F&W" always make me wonder. Its great for the person who called at the right moment, but it leaves people with the impression that there is availability - when the truth might be there are forty people on a waitlist.

 

[dcfromva]

I don't recall DVC ever referring to those changes as "enhancements," but I could be wrong there. Nevertheless, eliminating item #2 was certainly a cost saving measure. It's just not a sustainable procedure to keep placing those phone calls when managing hundreds-of-thousands of members.

As for #1, that probably plays into the limit of two active waitlists per account. Ultimately it results in shorter waitlists (which should translate into increased success--or at least more realistic expectations) and less administrative overhead.

My point is comparing the old system (more complex and more variables allowed) to the new system--not as complex and yet it doesn't seem like it is working as it should.

 

[Rhode Island Quahog]

Hmmmmm, this makes me think. We're waiting on a Magic Kingdom view BLT studio for 2 nights in Sept. Maybe I should be calling daily???

We had a waitlist for AKL Concierge studio for October 28 and October 29th. My boyfriend called today and got the concierge studio for 10/28, so we changed our waitlist for just the remaining night we need. Told by MS we got the last studio available...really hoping our waitlist fills but I'm going to call periodically to check with MS as well.

Can't hurt to check...I plan on it!