teachers possibly striking

[Pea-n-Me]

I am not turning this into a nurses vs teachers discussion but since a poster threw them into the mix, I would like to know if there is an expectation that nurses put in tons of time without pay?

I wish I could have some of my nurse friends answer this. I think you would be surprised. See, not every nurse is a staff nurse. I have friends that are Nurse Managers who work on salary and their jobs don't end when they leave the building. They continue their work at home and because they have 24hr accountability, are available by phone at night for problems as well. Same for a Nurse Practitioner friend of mine. I myself sometimes have work to do at home, too. And even staff nurses aren't completely exempt - they are required yearly to demonstrate "competency" in their respective areas in addition to taking continuing education courses for license renewal. To think they have time to do these on the clock is often laughable in many places; they're lucky if they can make it to the bathroom or to catch a bite to eat let alone sit at a computer terminal uninterrupted for hours, so yes, these are often done on their own time as well.

As for overtime, sure, there's overtime, but what you probably don't know is, at what price? I started to write about this last night but decided to just skip it. Unless you're a nurse who's experienced it, it's hard to understand. But since there seems to be an interest, I'll try. (Wish I hadn't deleted it, I have things to do this morning, LOL.)

I started to say, you haven't lived until you've experienced mandatory overtime. Mandatory Overtime is something that happens when your shift is ended but you are forced to stay another shift. It doesn't matter that you don't feel well, you're so tired you can't see straight, or that you have children who need you at home, whatever. If you leave, you risk losing your job and/or abandonment charges. (And of course there are legal ramifications for you if you harm a patient.) If you've read either the ANA link in my first post or the one here in this paragraph, you'll see that this is often a method that hospitals use for routine staffing. I have experienced it over a period of several years and let me tell you, it's completly disheartening. Every day that you come to work you don't know if you'll be able to leave. This still occurs in hospitals all over the US.

Some of us that have been lucky enough to have our hospitals abandon the practice still have staffing problems that "force" overtime even though it's not called mandatory overtime. Most nurses won't leave the next shift shorthanded so even though they technically *can* go, they reluctantly stay to help out, hoping that the next guy will give them the same courtesy. Sure, there are nurses that relish the OT. But there are more who don't. Imaging putting in a full day with your children. You then go to work for a night shift having been up all day. You work all night. 7am rolls around and you have to stay all day. Unimaginable, right? This is the reality of what I'm talking about.

There are many, many other issues in nursing that are extremely complex and have contributed over many years to what we know as the Nursing Shortage. I went into nursing because I love taking care of patients, which could probably be said for many, if not most, nurses. But there's a lot of other stuff happening behind the scenes that we have to deal with, and those are the things that make people leave their jobs. (Not much different from teachers, I imagine.) To hear things like this

as an xray tech I can say that I always thought nurses got way 'more' respect that they should have

is just

A wise person once told me that being a nurse is a lot like being a mother. Saying all a nurse does is clean bedpans and take temperatures is kind of like saying all a mother does is change diapers and feed babies. No, there's a whole lot more bubbling beneath the surface of what we do. A whole lot. And like mothers, we make it look easy to those observing us. We're also underappreciated, often disrespected, and frequently bashed by not only by those who don't know what it is that we do, but those who do. Gosh, gotta love it.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Around here teachers start at about $25,000, nurses $40,000+.
I am sorry but nurse do NOT work more hours then teachers and any overtime they are paid time and a half.

NO work comes home with a nurse.

I think I addressed this.

Many nurses here work 30 hours/week and get paid for 40 or they work 4 10 hour shifts and have a 3 day weekend.

This is largely a thing of the past and was, of course, only an incentive to employ nurses in the face of a critical shortage. And nurses who took these positions often paid a very high price for them in terms of scheduling (as they were largely working weekends and off shifts), staffing (weekends are notorious for short staffing), and family/social life (every weekend or off shifts).

Many nurses have a 2 year degree, some a 4 year degree most do NOT have a masters while it is REQUIRED in our district. It is NOT the same educational level nor the same hours.

Wanted to say that most of the staff nurses I work with have at least bachelor degrees, and many have master's degrees; quite a few of them are nurse practitioners, who can often get better pay and scheduling as a staff nurse. (So sure, the nurse who's wiping your butt could well be a nurse practitioner who is capable of prescribing medication for you.) There is an expectation that those nurses hired with an associate degree continue on for their bachelor's or higher. Nursing administors are now even bringing college courses to hospital campuses to make it happen.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

How and why has this come about?

To understand that, you'd have to look back at the history of nursing. Traditionally, it was a very demanding job with long hours. Our foremothers in the profession could not be married, worked sun up to sun down, and not only had to take care of sick patients but had to do other things like scrub floors and shovel coal as well. After WWII and with the onset of the Women's Movement, women wern't exactly busting down the doors to become nurses as basic philosophies hadn't changed much. And so, the shortage began.

In the 1950's and 60's, nursing leaders, hospital administrators and college educators began to look at how they could solve the problems the profession was facing. After all, nurses were so needed. Nursing education was kind of scattered. Many nurses were educated in diploma programs in hospitals, which helped hospitals with their staffing. Within nursing itself, there was a push to have the baccalaureate (BSN) degree as the entry level into professional practice, similar to that of other professions. Nurses bickered among themselves which was preferable. Hospital trained nurses were highly skilled in technique. BSN nurses were all about theory, critical thinking, and what they coined the Nursing Process. Well this was all fine and good, but basically there weren't a ton of people who wanted to become nurses any longer given what a thankless job it had become, so it became kind of moot and they continued to look for answers.

What happened next was something that further fractured nursing education as a whole. Around late 50's, early 60's they decided to try something new designed to lure people into what was meant as a minimal entry level into the bare bones of practice, what they called a technical nurse, who would have an associate's degree. To their chagrin, the experiment took off. And once it started, it couldn't stop. So now there was a third way of becoming an RN - the associate degree.

Here's what the American Nurses Association has to say about the educational differences:

Nursing education

To achieve the RN title, an individual must graduate from a state-approved school of nursing—either a four-year university program, a two-year associate degree program, or a three-year diploma program—and pass a state RN licensing examination called the National Council Licensure Examination for Registered Nurses (NCLEX-RN).

BSN

The four-year university-based Bachelor of Science in Nursing (BSN) degree provides the nursing theory, sciences, humanities, and behavioral science preparation necessary for the full scope of professional nursing responsibilities, and provides the knowledge based necessary for advanced education in specialized clinical practice, research, or primary health care. In 2005, 573 U.S. colleges and universities offer the BSN or advanced nursing degree.

• First two years – Most programs concentrate studies on psychology, human growth and development, biology, microbiology, organic chemistry, nutrition, and anatomy and physiology.

• Final two years – This is when many programs begin the focused nursing curriculum including adult acute and chronic disease; maternal/child health; pediatrics; psychiatric/mental health nursing; and community health nursing. Also, nursing theory, bioethics, management, research and statistics, health assessment, pharmacology, pathophysiology, and electives in complex nursing processes are covered.

Most often, supervised clinical practice is obtained during the last two years in hospitals, nursing homes, and community settings.


ADN

A two-year program granting an Associate Degree in Nursing (ADN) prepares individuals for a defined technical scope of practice. Set in the framework of general education, the clinical and classroom components prepares ADN nurses for nursing roles that require nursing theory and technical proficiency. Many RNs whose first degree is an ADN return to school during their working life to earn a bachelor’s degree or higher. In 2006, many students find the ADN program to be longer than 2 years, often 3 years or more. In 2005, Associate Degree programs were 58.9% of all U.S. basic programs.


Diploma

Usually associated with a hospital, the Diploma in Nursing program combines classroom and clinical instruction, usually over three years. Although once a common educational route for RNs, diploma programs have diminished steadily—to 4 percent of all basic RN education programs in 2006—as nursing education has shifted from hospitals to academic institutions.


Education of RN Workforce, 2004

Diploma 17.5%

ADN 33.7%

BSN 34.2%

Masters or PhD 13%

Licensing

Upon graduation, an individual must pass the NCLEX-RN to obtain a license to practice registered nursing and use the RN title. State boards of nursing govern licensing requirements, set continuing education or competency requirements, and handle disciplinary actions against RNs. Once an RN, the nurse must practice following the requirements of the nurse practice act in the state in which they function as an RN.

So as one can see, a lot of the issues we see in nursing today are the direct result of the Nursing Shortage, which, unfortunately, will not be solved for at least the forseeable future.

I apologize for rambling on here, it wasn't my intention. I just wanted to respond since it was brought up. Sorry so long.

 

[tasha99]

Nursing and teaching both have pluses and minuses it seems. Mandatory overtime seems like a nightmare to me as a single parent. I'm convinced that's why they can't keep 911 operators where I am, even though they make good money. That's another career that shouldn't (and probably can't) strike.