Teachers: College Search

[sam_gordon]

DD wants to be a teacher (god bless her). She wants to either teach elementary or middle school, probably focusing on math.

We went on our first college visit yesterday. It was an "open house" type of thing. We got a small tour of the campus, saw some dorm rooms (I've forgotten how small they can be), got some information on financial aid and talked to one of the education department advisers.

One thing I (and DW and DD) liked about this school is they start getting education kids out into classrooms (observing I guess). I think they get ~15 hours/semester.

On to why I'm posting... what should we look for in education degrees? Does the school you go to make much of a difference? Any other questions or things you "wished you knew"?

And she is set on being a teacher. I've read plenty of threads here about that being a poor career choice, but if it's what she wants to do, I'm not going to put up much of a fight.

She has said she does NOT want a "big" school. She wants to build a relationship with professors, which we heard a couple good stories about that from students yesterday.

I have gone on college confidential and college view to try to find schools (yes, it's her choice, but I do have some input), but I know there's a lot of teachers on here.

DD is a HS junior and has good grades & a decent ACT score (will take again this spring).

Thanks in advance

 

[nugov2]

It does not matter what school you go to. It is the connections she will make while student teaching and doing other clinicals. Where I was you had to apply to student teach and be interviewed by the schools. I picked the toughest districts to get into so that I might have a leg up when it came time to get a job. I worked my butt off making connections with the teachers I worked with and going above and beyond while student teaching. I was hired as a para(I graduated in December) and was offered a job the following year. I had a friend attend a top school in the nation and get into tons of debt(and she got her masters another big no, no of getting a job in education) and she didn't have any easier of a time getting a job, but had lots of debt. I also recommend not getting a masters. Your pay level will be too high and they will go with the cheaper hire.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

It does not matter what school you go to. It is the connections she will make while student teaching and doing other clinicals.

The ability to find work would be my #1 concern. Find a college that has a career placement program or something in place where the advisor can help with placement.

But be careful, because a lot of the time you see someone get work as a substitute. Districts don't want to hire substitutes to full time positions, because then they will have a hard time finding good substitutes.

 

[nugov2]

The ability to find work would be my #1 concern. Find a college that has a career placement program or something in place where the advisor can help with placement.

But be careful, because a lot of the time you see someone get work as a substitute. Districts don't want to hire substitutes to full time positions, because then they will have a hard time finding good substitutes.

That is a good point, but that advice can be a slippery slope. At least around here our districts protect their own and often hire the subs, but they also turn down subs b/c they have so many. They hire who they know first(even subs). The district my kids are currently in is also a top notch district that is impossible to get into, but b/c I do tons of work with our district foundation raising money and know the administrators well, I have been offered several jobs over the years. I do not want to go back to teaching so when I am ready to go back to work I still wouldn't take a job there, but it is nice to know in a pinch I could get in a high paying district b/c of my connections. I think that is the main thing I have learned in the education field and cannot stress that enough. It is who you know, not what you know. Your dd should talk to any teachers she knows in desirable districts and see what advice they give her. Obviously each area will be different, but IMO the more involved you are in a district the more likely you will be to get a job there.

 

[Happy Snowman]

She should go to the "best" teacher's college in whatever area she wants to land in after she graduates to teach. Best meaning they have a large enough program that they have good connections with local schools for student teaching opportunities but also meet your needs financially and her needs for school size/atmosphere. Look at schools in all price ranges because if she is a good student with good test scores, depending on where you live, she could get pretty significant money to go to private schools where as state schools, in general, are not very generous outside of major financial need.

Most states have several schools that fit the bill, so finding one should be pretty easy and majoring in math is a good plan!

 

[PrincessAbi]

I know here in SC, Winthrop University is the top choice for students wanting to become teachers, because they have a magnet school on site.

Good luck on your search!

 

[Happy Snowman]

That is a good point, but that advice can be a slippery slope. At least around here our districts protect their own and often hire the subs, but they also turn down subs b/c they have so many. They hire who they know first(even subs). The district my kids are currently in is also a top notch district that is impossible to get into, but b/c I do tons of work with our district foundation raising money and know the administrators well, I have been offered several jobs over the years. I do not want to go back to teaching so when I am ready to go back to work I still wouldn't take a job there, but it is nice to know in a pinch I could get in a high paying district b/c of my connections. I think that is the main thing I have learned in the education field and cannot stress that enough. It is who you know, not what you know. Your dd should talk to any teachers she knows in desirable districts and see what advice they give her. Obviously each area will be different, but IMO the more involved you are in a district the more likely you will be to get a job there.

I agree--most districts will hire good subs because they know them, but mostly they will hire teachers that can work for them in various capacities--a Math teacher that can coach baseball or volleyball or someone that has a double major in math and biology and can teach in both areas, etc. Rarely is someone hired "just" to teach with the exception of special education.

 

[disneydee6]

That is a good point, but that advice can be a slippery slope. At least around here our districts protect their own and often hire the subs, but they also turn down subs b/c they have so many. They hire who they know first(even subs). The district my kids are currently in is also a top notch district that is impossible to get into, but b/c I do tons of work with our district foundation raising money and know the administrators well, I have been offered several jobs over the years. I do not want to go back to teaching so when I am ready to go back to work I still wouldn't take a job there, but it is nice to know in a pinch I could get in a high paying district b/c of my connections. I think that is the main thing I have learned in the education field and cannot stress that enough. It is who you know, not what you know. Your dd should talk to any teachers she knows in desirable districts and see what advice they give her. Obviously each area will be different, but IMO the more involved you are in a district the more likely you will be to get a job there.

Yes. Yes. Yes to this! While teaching is certainly not the only job where WHO you know is what will make your career, it is so true for a teaching career. Do you have any connections to teacher friends who would be willing to help her once she graduates? If not, is she willing to possibly spend a few years subbing (and even have a hard time finding subbing alone)? Is she willing to take a TA position? Is she willing to put up with the new politics that come with a teaching job? All of these are real considerations when it comes to teaching. If she's willing to put in the time and effort to make her career, then go for it!

As far as picking the right college, as you said, she is set on a career in education, her guidance counselor should be familiar with which schools have good education programs.

 

[Janet Hill]

If math is her thing look for scholarship money. I know that Virginia had money available for critical needs area of teaching and math is one of them. Money was awarded as loan and after fulfilling a teaching requirement in the state the loan was written off.

Her degree is in math and she is certified to teach and has always had multiple offers every time she has been job hunting

 

[njmom47]

My co-worker's dd is in her first year of teaching HS Math. She had previously been a sub in the same district for a middle-school math teacher who was on maternity leave, as well as having subbed in the district.

I don't know how she got her foot in the door but she actually had a couple of offers from different districts.

Good luck to your dd!

 

[Mrs. Ciz]

It does not matter what school you go to. It is the connections she will make while student teaching and doing other clinicals. Where I was you had to apply to student teach and be interviewed by the schools. I picked the toughest districts to get into so that I might have a leg up when it came time to get a job. I worked my butt off making connections with the teachers I worked with and going above and beyond while student teaching. I was hired as a para(I graduated in December) and was offered a job the following year. I had a friend attend a top school in the nation and get into tons of debt(and she got her masters another big no, no of getting a job in education) and she didn't have any easier of a time getting a job, but had lots of debt. I also recommend not getting a masters. Your pay level will be too high and they will go with the cheaper hire.

It may depend on where you live/go to school/want to be hired. I live in Virginia. The colleges with teacher programs in my state are all Masters programs. You don't really have a choice; you have to get the Masters. You could bypass it if you go the alternate licensure route (very hard to get hired that way because you have to have a contract to activate your license, but no one will give you a contract because you don't have a license). Because almost all new teachers have Masters degrees, you are at a disadvantage if you don't have one.

I got my BBA in Business Management (with a minor in English), then got my MA in English Lit and worked on my M Ed. in Secondary Education (6-12) at the same time. I didn't get to finish the M Ed program but I had all the classes needed to get my license through the alternate route. It took 4 years of subbing in 3 different schools and 1 year working in a PreK classroom before I finally got a contract.

Almost every teacher in my school has a Masters and the few who don't are encouraged to be actively working towards a Masters.

 

[meliss8599]

I don't feel the college choice will have as much of an impact on her finding a job as will her minor and endorsement areas. Here in the Chicagoland area, huge plusses are minors/endorsements in Math, Science, Special Education, or English as A Second Language (ESL or ELL).

I also agree with PPs that "Who You Know" helps quite a bit in teaching. Even if that means being a substitute or an assistant for a bit. The suburban district I teach in very frequently hires individuals who proved themselves as subs and assistants first.

Don't ever let people discourage your daughter from working toward what she wants to do. Teaching is a difficult profession and one that others often love to undercut, but it is definitely rewarding and worth all the blood, sweat, and tears.

 

[dsanner106]

Georgia brought in nearly 400 international teachers in Math and Science because the teaching pool is so low in those areas. Would not matter what school you went to in those areas, and placement around here would be a sure thing
Drew in Atl

 

[TaylorEar]

Teaching program requirements are all mandated by the state (every state differs), so things like observation hours/student teaching hours will be the same at all schools within the state. I would highly recommend that she get her degree from the state that she wants to teach in, as every state's teacher certification requirements are different, and it's very common to have NO reciprocity. If she gets a degree (which includes state certification tests) in one state and then moves to another she will have to re-certify in that state, which sometimes (not always) requires more course work.

If she is seeking certification in a high-needs area (math/science, special ed) then she won't have a problem finding a job after graduation, especially if she is willing/wanting to work in a Title 1 school.

 

[jerseygal]

DD wants to be a teacher (god bless her). She wants to either teach elementary or middle school, probably focusing on math.

We went on our first college visit yesterday. It was an "open house" type of thing. We got a small tour of the campus, saw some dorm rooms (I've forgotten how small they can be), got some information on financial aid and talked to one of the education department advisers.

One thing I (and DW and DD) liked about this school is they start getting education kids out into classrooms (observing I guess). I think they get ~15 hours/semester.

On to why I'm posting... what should we look for in education degrees? Does the school you go to make much of a difference? Any other questions or things you "wished you knew"?

And she is set on being a teacher. I've read plenty of threads here about that being a poor career choice, but if it's what she wants to do, I'm not going to put up much of a fight.

She has said she does NOT want a "big" school. She wants to build a relationship with professors, which we heard a couple good stories about that from students yesterday.

I have gone on college confidential and college view to try to find schools (yes, it's her choice, but I do have some input), but I know there's a lot of teachers on here.

DD is a HS junior and has good grades & a decent ACT score (will take again this spring).

Thanks in advance

DS second choice is Secondary/Middle School Ed, Math major. Right now freshman majoring in accounting, but by end of first semester, sophomore year will have to make a choice. He was an outstanding baseball/basketball player throughout high school and would hope to coach as well.He really is a "natural" for teaching and has loved children and children "gravitate" to him as well. Even though Mom, Dad, and brother have business backgrounds, Mom thinks that he is very well suited for the education route.
Guess we WILL SEE! Thank goodness if he decides to change majors at end of first semester sophomore year, all courses that he would have taken so far will satisfy the math major requirements.
BEST OF LUCK to your daughter on her major/college decisions!

 

[sam_gordon]

Thank you all. The school we visited Sunday does automatic double majors (or maybe it was double certification) in the age group (Elementary or Middle School) and special needs. I liked that idea also.

The only thing I didn't like about this school was the price. It's a private school with private school funding. Yes, they give scholarships to all students, but even taking scholarships and grants into account, it's still more expensive than public schools.

I did look at pricing at various schools in nearby states, and out of state tuition is (public and private).

 

[aprilchem]

Ask the colleges you visit about the 1st-year job placement for their education students - at my institution our placement rate is about 95%, meaning 95% of our education minors (I'm in Virginia, where education is a minor, not a major) find full-time teaching jobs in their endorsement area in the first year after they graduate. That's a good placement rate, and is a result of good advising, a strong relationship with our local school systems, lots of fieldwork, and continuous feedback given to our students to make them the best educators they can be.

I would also advise anyone who wants to go into education to not take on student loans. Education pays fairly well in my area (starting salaries are around $50k) but not enough to pay off massive student loans.

And join the SEA (Student Education Association) ASAP once she gets there!

 

[The Princess]

My dd is an elementary education major in her 1st year of college so this thread really caught my eye. Thanks for all the info!

 

[tina.tina]

I am back in college after a very long absence. I have a recommendation for someone in high school now. If you cannot graduate with an Associate's degree (as many high schools now offer in my area), I would recommend starting out at a community college (even taking some classes before HS graduation- at least during the summers). Some of my high school teachers encouraged me to believe I was "too good a student" for a community college. They aren't the ones who would be paying back the debt. The name of the school you go to won't matter as long as you're qualified. I'm not really talking about perspective engineers who are looking at MIT or someone trying to get into a competitive medical school, but student loan debt is a big deal and can affect you for years.

Last time I checked the statistics, Math is second behind Special Education as a high need area in Virginia (as well as many other states).

For job hunting, I totally agree that it all depends on who you know- or, actually, who knows you. As others have said, this is one reason why I think your student teaching placement is so important. Many elementary teachers in my region are hired as paras/teacher's aides before they are even considered for full time teacher positions.

I plan to teach high school or middle school Math. I was advised by a current HS Math teacher to go through the secondary program rather than the middle school program because so many middle schools are offering Geometry (a HS course) now and it would help in my job search. I took that excellent advice- even though I would be closer to the finish line otherwise.

It's interesting to see how many people from Virginia have responded to this thread. Virginia is a very diverse state because of economic disparities between Northern Virginia (near DC) and Southwestern Virginia (in the Appalachian Mountains). For example, Aprilchem in Northern Virginia says starting salaries are $50K in her area, but they are an average of $35K in the Southwestern region. Many counties in this region are lower than that average.

I've noticed that many (but not all) new elementary teachers have Master's degrees. Maybe Mrs. Ciz was talking about her experience in particular, but many Virginia schools definitely continue to offer undergraduate degrees for those interested in secondary education.

 

[Mrs. Ciz]

I am back in college after a very long absence. I have a recommendation for someone in high school now. If you cannot graduate with an Associate's degree (as many high schools now offer in my area), I would recommend starting out at a community college (even taking some classes before HS graduation- at least during the summers). Some of my high school teachers encouraged me to believe I was "too good a student" for a community college. They aren't the ones who would be paying back the debt. The name of the school you go to won't matter as long as you're qualified. I'm not really talking about perspective engineers who are looking at MIT or someone trying to get into a competitive medical school, but student loan debt is a big deal and can affect you for years.

Last time I checked the statistics, Math is second behind Special Education as a high need area in Virginia (as well as many other states).

For job hunting, I totally agree that it all depends on who you know- or, actually, who knows you. As others have said, this is one reason why I think your student teaching placement is so important. Many elementary teachers in my region are hired as paras/teacher's aides before they are even considered for full time teacher positions.

I plan to teach high school or middle school Math. I was advised by a current HS Math teacher to go through the secondary program rather than the middle school program because so many middle schools are offering Geometry (a HS course) now and it would help in my job search. I took that excellent advice- even though I would be closer to the finish line otherwise.

It's interesting to see how many people from Virginia have responded to this thread. Virginia is a very diverse state because of economic disparities between Northern Virginia (near DC) and Southwestern Virginia (in the Appalachian Mountains). For example, Aprilchem in Northern Virginia says starting salaries are $50K in her area, but they are an average of $35K in the Southwestern region. Many counties in this region are lower than that average.

I've noticed that many (but not all) new elementary teachers have Master's degrees. Maybe Mrs. Ciz was talking about her experience in particular, but many Virginia schools definitely continue to offer undergraduate degrees for those interested in secondary education.

Very true, I cannot speak for every teacher program in the state. At all the schools I investigated, you graduated with a Masters.

Starting salary here in the Richmond area is around $42,000 for public school, $35,000 for Catholic school. Some counties may pay a little more, some a little less.