Teacher union ARGH!!!!

[tarheel618]

While I want what is best for the teachers, I do put my own child ahead of that. That is where my frustration lies I guess.

Not according to your post. You don't want them to get a raise or fight for health care benefits.

Your gripe is that your son can't be involved in his club and those greedy teachers want 7% and to be rid of their co pay for insurance.


Sorry but that is what I've gotten from your post.

 

[MM27]

Regardless of the percent increase that the union is asking for, what most people don't realize is that that percentage is not given to every teacher on payroll. After the percentage is determined, there is the negotiation of the construction of salary guides, which determine how pay raises are distributed. Three years ago when my district got our new contract, they pumped up the starting salary and many of the higher steps got a smaller percent. We did not all get the wonderful percentage increase that the district made public. As a previous poster stated, perhaps the large percentage that they are asking for is to increase their starting salary.

From NJ statistics: The average increase for the most recent quarter is 4.52 percent, which reflects a general downward trend in settlement rates. I'm not looking for an arguement about whether or not people are worthy of that increase, just sharing information.

 

[tarheel618]

I also love the term average salary. There are many teachers that are many years away from making that "Average Salary." Don't forget they are averaging beginning teacher salaries with Veteran 30 years + to get that "AVERAGE SALARY AMOUNT"

 

[disneymom3]

And if that teacher has not been getting paid and has just been staying after school to do something extra, and you would punish him by voting against his raise, then I hope he and other teachers like him never put in one more minute without pay. If that's an example of the gratitude from parents..

A lot of after school positions come with a stipend but many of these clubs do not. They just are run by really nice teachers who are donating their time. They should be rewarded, not punished.

This is my thought. My goodness. Having 4 sisters who are teachers and a mom who was as well I would bet big money that the teacher was never paid for it. How do you know it has anything to do with the contract. Maybe he has daycare expenses for his own kids and can no longer afford to pay for extra time. I am appalled that after three years or more of doing this, the response he gets is basically "what have you done for me lately?" Sad.

 

[shortbun]

And if that teacher has not been getting paid and has just been staying after school to do something extra, and you would punish him by voting against his raise, then I hope he and other teachers like him never put in one more minute without pay. If that's an example of the gratitude from parents..

A lot of after school positions come with a stipend but many of these clubs do not. They just are run by really nice teachers who are donating their time. They should be rewarded, not punished.

AMEN!!!
I'm NOT a teacher but I'm sick of people thinking that they should be forced to give their time to after school programs all year long with no thanks. Let them work to the letter of their contract and people start complaining. It's a rare union that tells their employees to just stop the extra-non paid work. Most unions don't want their members to do extra work at all. Egads, most parents never set foot in a school and observe just how hard the teachers are working. Teachers in my son's school are there routinely when I pick him up at 5:45pm. They arrive at 8am and sometimes earlier. The school day is 9:30 to 3:45pm. This is NOT a strike; they are simply doing their jobs and nothing more. Parents could take responsibility for some things and keep them going. It would be a great way to show your children that YOU care.

 

[tarheel618]

AMEN!!!
Let them work to the letter of their contract and people start complaining.

Very good point.

 

[MM27]

Who on earth doesn't pay for health care in this day and age?

Police officers

 

[chobie]

I have never understood this argument. Teacher positions are salaried and not hourly.
I just don't get that mentality at all. Until they start using timecards to clock in...calculating it down to the minute...is...silly. Very silly.

These "extra-curricular" activities...may be extras to the school day..but they are beneficial to education. Which I assume why teachers choose the fields they do since they aren't happy with the pay.

I guess in going to school...I had always assumed that it was part of the teachers job to facilitate the learning process in and out of the classroom whether it be before or after school. I just don't see it as much of a "volunteer" thing to do as in..."if you want to do it, we'll have the program and if not we won't."

So how far should they go to facilitate learning? Should they go to kids homes at night to tutor them? Should they be on call all weekend in case some kid wants to make an extra project that they think will facilitate their learning?

Yes extra curricular activities facilitate learning, but no teacher should be expected to do them. And people like you and the OP give a strong argument why a teacher should never doing anything extra outside of the school day. People expect it and have no appreciation.

 

[tarheel618]

chobie worship

 

[declansdad]

And this is why people don't consider teachers professionals but hourly union workers.

some people not all.

 

[java]

Yes extra curricular activities facilitate learning, but no teacher should be expected to do them. And people like you and the OP give a strong argument why a teacher should never doing anything extra outside of the school day. People expect it and have no appreciation.

Oh when did I say no appreciation? If you read the post of how much we have done for this specific teacher- the donation of a kit and helping out setting up and cleaning up. My son's time he volunteered. We thank him all the time. Give gifts at the holidays and year end. My son even helped him at his computer camp- in addition to developing a program that he is using in his class. So don't paint us as the users of a teacher. We are not. We give back to them as well.

 

[Whosemom]

As far as the paid/unpaid extra-curriculars go, there can be a lot of variance even in a fairly small area. I worked with marching band auxillaries at an inner city school and at a rural school. I got around $1200 in the city (in 1988) and $200 in the rural school the next year. At the rural school I even went to 2 week-long camps that I didn't have to do in the city. The pay didn't matter that much to me. BUT someone saying I should have to do it because learning takes place outside of the classroom Give me a break!

Right now, my daughter is involved in an educational/exercise program being run by a doctor for no charge. THAT, I freely admit, is amazing. But a teacher puts in similar hours and its just expected?? Why is that? Personally, I never experienced your attitudes in either school setting. There was never a student that I tutored after hours that the parent didn't thank me - often with baked goods in hand

I have always seen education as a partnership between the student, the parents, and myself. Don't hold ME 100% responsible, because that is unrealistic. Being very forthright about this, and treating parents with respect, has seemed to garner respect from the parents as well. (but this is off topic rambling...)

 

[MM27]

This part bothered me in the no thanks part. The coach that got the extra $1800 from the district is also getting an awards meal and a check for $250 from the players.
We thanked him throughout the season. On the Robotics teacher, we donated a set of Parts to the teacher($150 worth or stuff) last year. We would go and help set up at events. My son also VOLUNTEERED to help design a website for this particular teacher and another teacher and developed a design program that they are using in class. So yes teachers give extra- and so do parents and children.

Not for nothing, but with the exception of the check from the players (which was very nice and I'm sure not expected) all the other things you mention are not for the benefit of the teacher, but rather the students.

 

[barkley]

anyone else floored by the concept of a public employee, let alone a coach who is charged with makeing the placement decisions of who will/will not be on a team accepting a cash gift from their players or the player's parents?

in the districts i'm familiar with accepting a cash gift of this nature would be a fast track to disciplinary personnel action at bare minimum (and termination would not be out of the question).

now, if monies were in actuality an offering to assist with reimbursing the coach for uncovered expenses associated with the team-that's another thing entirely, and in that case it's not a gift of appreciation, it's an effort to offset his out of pocket expenses.

as for 'awards meals'-poll most coaches and they would say that these are not their personal choice of a 'great dinner out', and that they attend these events purely 'for the kids'.

 

[FinallyBoughtDVC]

our district is in a similar position. Thing is, the old contract (incredibly lucrative) is still in effect while negotiations continue, so there's no financial excuse for the work slowdown. Our teachers are paid large sums to do extracurricular activities - it's not just something "extra" they do out of the kindness of their hearts. They're holding out on something they would be getting paid for at the direction of their union leadership. They are not only hurting the kids, but for some teachers, hurting their families because that is extra income lost.

Personally, I have zero respect for union leadership that do things like this to "punish". One of many reasons I homeschool my kids even though we live in one of the top school districts in the nation. The politics, the wasted time, the state tests, the unions, the whole package is just useless.

This is one of those discussions that's going to vary from region to region. There are regions where teachers are underpaid. Not in my district and they have a heck of a nerve doing a work slowdown that affects the kids directly to force parents to take their side. And, I think it's gross that unions force (yes force) many of their members to do this against their will.

 

[chobie]

Oh when did I say no appreciation? If you read the post of how much we have done for this specific teacher- the donation of a kit and helping out setting up and cleaning up. My son's time he volunteered. We thank him all the time. Give gifts at the holidays and year end. My son even helped him at his computer camp- in addition to developing a program that he is using in his class. So don't paint us as the users of a teacher. We are not. We give back to them as well.

The stuff you donate to the club is for your kid, it's not giving back anything to the teacher, you are merely helping him work for free for YOUR kid.

A Christmas gift is nice, but a raise is what the teacher needs not a token here or there.

Doing something for the teacher would be supporting their union in giving teachers a raise so they will continue to work for free after school.

 

[paigevz]

They are also not to be teaching to a test...that isn't true teaching. (At least--I don't think that is what they were tought when they got their education degrees.)

Again--just a sign that they are nothing more than hourly employees as that is how they wish to be treated.

(I learned more in math competition than I ever did in the classroom.)

Fine--they are there to just teach. Forget anything else they could ever do in the classroom since that isn't in their contracts. Why would they ever want to go above and beyond when the status quo seems to work for them.

It might be a generality, but it seems there are many stories that support that philosophy.

But even with just the status quo--there are those who just don't even get to that level of competence.

I guess that is why my French teacher decided her PhD was more important than teaching her kids in any of her classes my senior year. Sure she didn't have to take us to a French Competition where we could have been easily out performed by French 2 year olds. But somewhere she got it in her head that as long as she showed up to class and said a few French words in class, she more than fufilled her obligation. Had she at least done what she really should have done in the classroom...then we wouldn't have looked so stupid in the competition when placed in the categories equivilant to the class we were taking during the school day. I wish that was one extra-curricular activity where the teacher said..you know what...I am just too busy and don't think the students will be adequately prepared for the competition. But she didn't. (FTR--her time devoted to that competition was NEVER outside of school hours except for her actual time at the competition in Orlando for 1 weekend.)

Sure i got an A in the class...but that's like me getting an A in Calculus while getting a 1 on the AP exam b/c the teacher spent the greater part of the year reviewing Algebra I. (that didn't happen thankfully--but just my illustration of what it was like in that French class.)

On a positive note--she did well on her dissertation (or whatever she was working on for her PhD). At least someone learned something that year..even if it wasn't her students.

I said teachers teach. This is a prime example of not teaching. You really think you going to a French competition would have helped much? I doubt it. You needed someone teaching. Some teachers definitely don't do what they should. Some definitely do. Still doesn't mean they shouldn't be given their due pay because they don't do extra activities like competitions and clubs. That particular teacher shouldn't be allowed to get away with that, that to me is an example of the high paid administrator of that building not doing their jobs, and .........did your parents advocate for you to the administration?

And could you please not use the eyeroll this time so we could have a friendly discussion?

 

[MM27]

anyone else floored by the concept of a public employee, let alone a coach who is charged with makeing the placement decisions of who will/will not be on a team accepting a cash gift from their players or the player's parents?

in the districts i'm familiar with accepting a cash gift of this nature would be a fast track to disciplinary personnel action at bare minimum (and termination would not be out of the question).

now, if monies were in actuality an offering to assist with reimbursing the coach for uncovered expenses associated with the team-that's another thing entirely, and in that case it's not a gift of appreciation, it's an effort to offset his out of pocket expenses.

as for 'awards meals'-poll most coaches and they would say that these are not their personal choice of a 'great dinner out', and that they attend these events purely 'for the kids'.

Not if came from the whole team and there was no individual contributions listed. We did this all the time when I was in high school for our coaches. We would collect money and go get a gift certificate and a card. Just a way to show appreciation. We had some team members that didn't contribute for various reasons, but they still signed the card. Same thing as the poster said, but they gave a check probably so the coach could get some things for the club. Now if one parent gave the coach a large sum of money, then yes I would think something was fishy.

Also to the poster that said that the previous year's contract was in effect because a new contract hadn't been settled yet, that's the way it works. How do you expect the teachers and other school employees to get paid? Or should they work for nothing because the contract hasn't been settled? You follow the current contract and when it is settled they give you retroactive pay. If the coaches are getting stipends for the activities, I don't believe that the union would tell them not to do their job.

 

[Aurora63]

Hi, I just wanted to chime in here what some of these teacher raises actually look like.

My district just voted and gave us a 4.6% raise (I might be off on the percent but it was right around there.)

I get paid every two weeks...it amounted to $50 per pay check, that's $100 a month.

If I calculate it by hour, that's about a $.63/hr raise.

I have not read this whole thread but I just wanted to chime in and give you all a real description of what these raises really amount to.

 

[swilphil]

I don't know any teacher who is expected to be at school for 24/7.

And are they not contractually obligated to do all the things mentioned in your posts. If they are not--then they shouldn't do them b/c they don't have to. If they are--well then that is what they "get paid to do".

The teachers I know--they have to do the lesson plans b/c they have to demonstrate that how they are teaching and the assignments they choose adhere to the Florida Sunshine Standards (I think that is what it is called).


I don't know any generalized profession where the employee never has families or lives of their own.

Out of the 10 schools I have attended, I never found a school where the number of activities equaled or exceeded the number of teachers available to sponsor them.

When I see threads like this with posts that oppose the OP's opinion--it just adds further fuel to the debate that teachers expect an 8ish to a 3ish workday, 5 days a week with holiday and summer breaks and not one minute more.

It really shouldn't be about that.

I mean--how many posts do I see where one must be "qualified" to teach--and then in this very thread...we are asking possibly unqualified parents to take over "teaching" the extra curricular activities/clubs/academic teams.

I don't know about you--but my mother sucked at Algebra and she was the last person I wanted coaching my math teams for any math competition. We wanted to at least have a chance at winning. Not just show up and not have a clue of what to do.

I was talking about teachers grading papers, creating lesson plans, and calling parents after the contractual school day ends. High school teachers have 120 to 150 students, so these things can be time consuming, especially when kids are writing 3 to 5 page papers. Teachers don't "have to" spend time after school to do this, but if they want to do their job well, they will. I'm talking about creating lesson plans for themselves and their students to follow, not the ones they have to turn in to meet standards. Most teachers also have to gather materials for the lesson plans as well, and often buy those materials themselves.

I don't think it's the teachers who are asking for parent volunteers. Teachers aren't complaining about having to do the extra work, they just want to be compensated for the work that they do. If parents value the work teachers put in, both during the school day and beyond it, they will be willing to pay for it.