TCD - Not Happy!!!

[arieljasmine]

So sorry to hear about the terrible delay, hope you are soon in Orlando having a magical time

ArielJasmine

 

[castanea1985]

Sorry I've only just managed to let you all know how we went on...
We didn't have wi fi at the villa (probably a good thing), so we only got to check emails etc at the Apple store in the Florida Mall!! We could have sourced a wi fi connection, but didn't really need to! Stopped DH checking his work email for once!
Had a fabulous holiday - as always, and yes we did forget about our 24 hr delay very quickly, but when we arrived home on Monday am, there was a letter from TCD saying they'd done everything they could to accomodate us, and wouldn't be paying out any compensation.
Well, I'm going to write them a 'stinking' letter this weekend, asking them about our golf , disney tickets, car hire and villa we'd paid for, for that 24hrs.
Its disgusting!
Has anyone else been in this situation?
Tracy

 

[Stitch's Greatest Fa]

Yes, the exact same thing happened to us last year and we ended up missing an ADR at Le Cellier. The 'reason' for our 22 hour delay was that the baggage handlers had apparently hit the cargo door with their truck, thus damaging it and so the door would not close. We were eventually put up in the SAS Radisson for the night but like you did not receive brilliant customer service...and writing a stinky letter didn't do a thing.

 

[jna]

We suffered six hour delays (thankfully not as bad as yours) in both directions a number of years to to Orlando with a charter company. I complained and received what I recall now was token compensation.

That letter to you will have been sent by the TCD management with the hope that it will nip matters in the bud, and I suspect that the majority will forgive if not forget. I'm not a constant complainer but I do stand my ground with large organisations who have provided a poor service.

Here's an example. Took my wife to Paris for her 40th. birthday. Before we went, and as requested, I told Barclaycard that I would be using the card in France. On her birthday evening after finishing a meal in a good restaurant my card was refused in front of other customers. I had details of the time and the name of the person I had spoken to at Barclaycard. They checked back and admitted that my request had not been recorded correctly. My card had therefore been 'stopped' after a purchase earlier in the day in Paris as their records suggested I should still be in the UK.

I 'sued' them for the whole cost of the trip, which had been totally ruined, and they paid me £1,000, and I have to say with little argument.

The problem is you have to show that they didn't do everything they could to avoid or reduce the delay. I don't know how you can find that evidence, but nevertheless go for it, and I wish you well. Even if you get little in return you can waste a fair bit of management time at TCD!

 

[Boo Boo Too]

I 'sued' them for the whole cost of the trip, which had been totally ruined, and they paid me £1,000, and I have to say with little argument.

Why was your trip totally ruined? Did you not have any other cards to pay for your dinner? Did they arrest you? I can understand the frustration and embarrassment (have had a card declined before because Barclaycard assumed it was stolen just because of a couple of big purchases... of course you have no idea of their concerns until your card is declined infront of a queue at M&S... ), but having cards declined is quite common these days (and 99% of the time it is nothing to do with the card user, just an over-protective credit card company...).

castanea1985, to be honest, I would write a fair and constructive letter (and not a stinky one). Outline the costs that you are "out of pocket" for because of the delays and stick to the facts. Airlines MAY compensate you for direct costs, but are incredibly unlikely to compensate you for lost time/enjoyment (unless maybe you sue...).

I THINK that you are going to be out of luck for the costs of the villa and hire car (since these things tend to be charged per week - and losing a day of charge is either not much or the same - for example if you hire a car for 5 days, a lot of rental companies will charge you the weekly fee since it it cheaper than 5 individual days...). Were you disney tickets annual passes, hopper passes etc? What was the ACTUAL cost of you not using one of the days? How about the golf? Did you still have to pay in full or get charged a cancellation fee?

If the golf had to be paid in full (say $150 - I have no idea, don't play golf), then I would suggest that you just go after that, tangible "out of pocket cost". Include a copy of the cancellation receipt/invoice. The same with any receiptable expenses DIRECTLY related to the delay. If you water down your claim with things that are not tangeable (i.e. "one night at the villa", "one day of car hire"), then I think that you are more likely to have the whole letter rejected.

Have had two "delays" over the past few years:
- a few years ago our United flight to DEN (to connect to a BA flight to London) got a mechanical fault and got cancelled. United put us up in a nice hotel and paid for our meals. They rebooked us on United and BA flights home the following day. No other compensation.
- this year are baggage was misplaced by BA for 7 days (we were not delayed, just had no clothes for 7 days). We were on our way to family funeral (in LA), then on to skiing in Colorado. BA gave us an emergency payment of $200 each (we were flying business class) to cover "out of pocket expenses". This probably would have done, apart from going to the funeral (all of our smart clothes and smart shoes were in the suitcase that they had misplaced). So we had to buy all new suits etc: that was INCREDIBLY stressful: buying for my husband was ok, but trying to find a suit that looked smart and fitted well for me was a nightmare (in the January sales...). Anyway, we kept all of the receipts and I sent copies with a "constuctive" letter to BA. Within a week I got a reply and they sent a cheque for the addtional £550 we were directly "out of pocket" because of the missing baggage (so $400 + £550 for replacement clothes, shoes, underear). No "additional" compensation was given (i.e. for distress/inconvenience).

You can look up your "passenger rights" on the Internet, BUT don't think that helps... http://www.rcn-ifna.org.uk/html/eu_delay_compensation.html Seems like TCD did the bear minimum - anything additional is up to their "good will".

Does your travel insurance eover your "out of pocket" costs?

Boo

 

[jna]

I can understand the frustration and embarrassment

In a nutshell. You only have one 40th. It spoilt the night and I did have another card. The comment about the arrest, um, a bit unfair and sarky? Not happy with that. You clearly think that I went overboard, but I have to tell you that the bank said that because of what occured a change of practice had been implemented. The payment was surprisingly made almost without question, to the extent that we felt they were very concerned about the matter being taken further and they had no defence.

It's good that the card companies are protective, but they have to 'get it right'.

The point I was trying to make was that large organisations will do all they can to bat away claims willy nilly, but when the plaintiff can support the claim with evidence of the company's wrongdoing they have to take it seriously. Airlines are thus difficult to deal with.

 

[Amyrlin]

Yes, the exact same thing happened to us last year and we ended up missing an ADR at Le Cellier. The 'reason' for our 22 hour delay was that the baggage handlers had apparently hit the cargo door with their truck, thus damaging it and so the door would not close. We were eventually put up in the SAS Radisson for the night but like you did not receive brilliant customer service...and writing a stinky letter didn't do a thing.

Those baggage handellers, the amount fo times we have heard that one.

TCD will fight it all the way, be aeaiting the tactic is to fight this themselves then when you issue court document to try and say not not us, its Excel.

Legally ther is little they are actually liable for (which means you are unlikey to get costs such as the unused villa night, golf etc) and that is what they will use, they do not care about good will. If they are arging this is extrondianry circumstances as long as they provide you with a hotel room and food then there jis not much ealse you can claim. If you can claim the flgith was cnacelled, or that the delay was not due to extrindiary circusmatnaces then you may have a case.

Even if they do agree compensation, which is unlikely, then you will have a probklem getting it out of them, nearly a year ago they promised to give me a refund on tickets that they did not send out before we went on holiday, but still have not done so.

 

[Obi Wan Kenobi]

Sorry I've only just managed to let you all know how we went on...
We didn't have wi fi at the villa (probably a good thing), so we only got to check emails etc at the Apple store in the Florida Mall!! We could have sourced a wi fi connection, but didn't really need to! Stopped DH checking his work email for once!
Had a fabulous holiday - as always, and yes we did forget about our 24 hr delay very quickly, but when we arrived home on Monday am, there was a letter from TCD saying they'd done everything they could to accomodate us, and wouldn't be paying out any compensation.
Well, I'm going to write them a 'stinking' letter this weekend, asking them about our golf , disney tickets, car hire and villa we'd paid for, for that 24hrs.
Its disgusting!
Has anyone else been in this situation?
Tracy

I would talk to the people on this web site
http://www.holidaytruths.co.uk/

They can give you the gen on getting some money back

 

[pezzapixiedust]

sorry to hear about the delay....its really annoying when that happens as you are all ready to get going! We had a 3 hr delay last year with tcd and it was a pain in the butt, esp if you have young children! Enjoy the rest of your hol!

 

[Boo Boo Too]

In a nutshell. You only have one 40th. It spoilt the night and I did have another card. The comment about the arrest, um, a bit unfair and sarky? Not happy with that. You clearly think that I went overboard, but I have to tell you that the bank said that because of what occured a change of practice had been implemented. The payment was surprisingly made almost without question, to the extent that we felt they were very concerned about the matter being taken further and they had no defence.

It's good that the card companies are protective, but they have to 'get it right'.

The point I was trying to make was that large organisations will do all they can to bat away claims willy nilly, but when the plaintiff can support the claim with evidence of the company's wrongdoing they have to take it seriously. Airlines are thus difficult to deal with.

No, not really unfair and sarky, just am surprised that you found have a credit card declined as THAT embarrassing (well £1000 is a lot of embarrassment...).

As I said, having your card declined is not that uncommon and - most often - NOTHING to do with you, your card or your financial circumstances: so NOTHING to be embarrassed about.

A card can be declined for a number of reasons, mostly "unusual spending patterns", i.e.:
- you go abroad
- you have just made a very big purchase or two
Any half descent person/shop/restaurant should treat a declined card with suitable respect and discretion - it should NOT be an issue.

Mine got declined at a petrol station last week because (to quote the petrol station attendant) "oh we just did a such-an-such transaction, it ALWAYS declines the next card after one of those!"...

Your case was indeed special (since you phoned up BEFORE you went), but (unless the restaurant made you strip down to your underwear and flogged you up and down the streets of Paris in shame) to be honest I don't believe it deserved £1000 (but then I think that you would have a right to sue the restaurant and not Barclaycard! ). Very odd!

Yes I agree that these things (credit card declined) really shouldn't happen, but sometimes they do (where ever people are involved, mistakes WILL happen). But I fear that GB is going down the "ambulance chasing" route that the US has dived down...

Under EU legislation, the OP was given the legal minimum. Maybe Obi Wan Kenobi's site will help the OP out. As I said, would look at writing a constructive (not snotty) letter to TCD AND she should check out her travel insurance (the travel insurance may cover some of the costs incurred by the delay). That is what I would try and maybe chalk the rest down to experience: maybe it is better to go for a scheduled airline (like BA/VS) with more flights a day from and more planes based at the major airports - then if your flights does get delayed/cancelled, there is a chance that something can be done about it.

Boo

 

[arieliwish]

We had delays with TCD both ways 2 years ago, but neither as bad as yours. The lack of customer service was dreadful, no answer on the number they gave us. We also found on arrival at 11.30pm at the Clarion Universal that our room wasn't acually booked (thanks TCD!), which the week before labour day weekend could have been quite tricky! The Clarion staff were fantastic and sorted everything for us.
When we got home we wrote to TCD and they said Clarion staff must have been mistaken and blamed the delays on the hurricane. It looked like a standard letter to me.

I know lots of people have had no problems with them at all, but from experience I can't bring myself to book with them again, despite the cost difference.

Hope you still got the disney magic though!

 

[jna]

I wish I had never used my example, and I'm glad I didn't have you reviewing my claim. Joke, seriously.

Not that it means much, but when you write to a PLC's head office, you expect an answer from a department bod, perhaps in another part of the country. Not in this case. A letter came back from the chairman's office, signed by Matthew Barrett himself and he at least appreciated the dismay the error had caused.

I really don't know why you are being like this, and why I am even bothering to defend myself, but being turned away at a petrol station is hardly a fair comparison. Indeed I have been refused, at an unmanned pump, an hour or so after I had used the card to buy something on the internet. So I used another card and got on with life.

Being told 'payment refusé' in front of other diners (no matter how carefully it was done) in a top Paris restaurant, that's a different matter, particularly as the trip was for a very special reason. That night is remembered for all the wrong reasons.

No more please. I really wish I had never mentioned it.

And in closing, good luck to anybody claiming compensation from TCD, Virgin, BA or any company that ruins or partially ruins your holiday.

 

[Mrs Dazzle]

jna - I totally sympathise with the embarrassment you felt when your card was declined. My DH had one declined at a very expensive restaurant where we were celebrating his new job - but like Boo Boo Too says, it was an unfortunate error on the card providers side and something we neither wanted, nor expected. Barclaycard refunded £10 to DH's account that time, "as a gesture of goodwill!! Needless to say we no longer have a Barclaycard

Please don't take this the wrong way - and this is for ANYONE who receives very 'generous' amounts of compensation . . . . who is it who pays eventually for this compensation - we, the other cardholders

However, that said, Tracy - I can't imagine how I would have dealt with the delays you had. I'd have been fit to burst. Please help us all by pursuing your claim with TCD. Our friends who are travelling to Florida with us next year have fixed a budget which means we've looked at flying charter instead of scheduled for the first time - this is what seriously puts me off.

 

[ERICS MUM]

I completely agree with JNA' s point. Why should large companies be able to treat customers with disdain, blame things on human error (where are their checking procedures??) or on other things "outside their control" and not have to face up to their responsibilities. Charter airlines especially, know that most clients have saved up hard all year for their 2 weeks in the sun, but really they just dont care enough about them (us).

I had trouble with TCD last year, and I wrote several letters to them, putting my points and questions clearly. They replied to each one in a very general, patronising way, ignored all my questions. They just did not want to engage with me, just wanted to shut me up. I would say do try getting TCD to stump up compensation but don't raise your hopes too high.

Linda

 

[Boo Boo Too]

I really don't know why you are being like this, and why I am even bothering to defend myself, but being turned away at a petrol station is hardly a fair comparison. Indeed I have been refused, at an unmanned pump, an hour or so after I had used the card to buy something on the internet. So I used another card and got on with life.

Oh I am honestly sympathertic, I just think a claim for compensation due to embarrassment is just mad.

Ok, I HAVE had my card refused at Marks & Spencers food till (having just put a couple of sizeable furnishing purchases through on the same card a few days ago). That was pretty embarrassing - a long queue of people staring at me whilst my card was handed back (and plenty of credit on my card...). BUT it wasn't £1000 worth of embarrassment.

I am sorry, but in the days of "9/11" the recent asian tsunami/s and quakes and various other disasters, I think it just brings things into perspective... there is "emotional distress" and there is "emotional distress". I just think this world is going crazy. If you and your loved ones are safe and healthy AND you are not out of pocket from the experience, then that is the MOST IMPORTANT thing - embarrassment is not pleasant (and yes companies should be accountable and processes/procedure/staff/training corrected...), BUT it is not life threatening.

As far as the OP is concerned, I think that the situation is rather different (as you yourself allude to, your example is maybe not particularly relevent) - it seems as though the OP actually lost some money because of the delay (i.e the golf etc.). That I think is worth pursuing with TCD, her insurance and maybe the website that Obi suggested.

Boo

 

[Boo Boo Too]

I completely agree with JNA' s point. Why should large companies be able to treat customers with disdain, blame things on human error (where are their checking procedures??) or on other things "outside their control" and not have to face up to their responsibilities. Charter airlines especially, know that most clients have saved up hard all year for their 2 weeks in the sun, but really they just dont care enough about them (us).

I don't think they do - they are just protecting profit.

I spent quite a lot of years working in Railway Safety. Do you know that a human life has a "cost" associated it. That cost is the "price" to the Railway company if someone is killed in a crash or accident (members of the public are worth more than railway workers). Do you know how they decide which safety measures to implement on the railways? Well it is a calculation which weighs up "money spent on implementing that safety measure" vs "cost of human lives lost if measure is not implemented"... At the end of the day, big businesses (like Network Rail) don't do EVERYTHING within their power to ensure that people don't die... because it would just cost too much. Ok, that is a bit of an extreme example, but it puts things in perspective. Big companies are not there to care, they are there to make money.

At the end of the day, as jna has proved, we live in a "blame society" (you upset me, you pay me compensation). Whether it is "burning your mouth on a cup of coffee", "becoming morbidly obese because McDonalds didn't make it clear that their food isn't healthy" or whatever... people are finding ever more creative ways to claim for "emotional distress" (and $millions in compensation...). Because of this, companies need to become much stricter in how they protect themselves.

If you are unhappy with charters like TCD, the only really positive thing you can do is "vote with your feet". Companies who deliver a bad product don't DESERVE your custom, so don't give it to them again. If enough customers do that, then companies like TCD either need to change their ways OR they loose profits rapidly....

Boo

 

[castanea1985]

Thanks for all the advice, everyone. Especially Obi One Kenobi's link:

http://www.holidaytruths.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=41438

This is definately worth further investigation, and don't worry Boo, I'm going to pursue a claim. Compensation for missing 24 hours of our well earned Florida holiday is worth fighting for.
The communication over that period was diabolical. No one told us what the problem was officially, but they knew a cable had gone on engine no. 4 early on in the delay, and knew they had no crew to fly the plane.
So, in our view, they were responsible for the delay. Poor maintenance and not enough crew on stand by. Again, all pointing to running a 'very tight' ship.
We will not be using TCD again. That is for certain.
Tracy

 

[keme]

Problem with TCD some of the planes are ex BA planes over 30 years old. XL bought them out last year and they have the same reputation with delays and try complaining they will send you in circles.

I travel virgin and even tried indirect with American and was not impressed with them but United I have found also very good.

When there are delays charter's always go to the back of the queue as they apparenlty pay less land tax, not sure how true this is.

 

[Obi Wan Kenobi]

Problem with TCD some of the planes are ex BA planes over 30 years old. XL bought them out last year and they have the same reputation with delays and try complaining they will send you in circles.

I travel virgin and even tried indirect with American and was not impressed with them but United I have found also very good.

When there are delays charter's always go to the back of the queue as they apparenlty pay less land tax, not sure how true this is.

The age of the airframe is not what you should be looking at. Its the amount of takeoffs and landings the aircraft makes which determins its airworthyness. that and the Boeing/Airbus proscribed maintenance schedules being foillowed and BA do that. 30 years of transatlantic flights is actually better than 15 years of low mileage flights, more landings, more stress on the airframe.

 

[mickg7dyd]

Hi,
I had a dispute with a holiday company several years ago and this is how it progressed.

1. Complained to resort staff who noted my concern.
2. Wrote to the company on my return.
3.They wrote back with a "standard reply"
4.I telephoned the letter writer but no joy.
5.Notified ABTA who sided with the holiday company(surprise surprise!!)
6.Wrote to the Advertising Standards Agency who upheld my complaint and instructed the company to reprint their brochure.
5.Isuused summons in the Small Claims Court.
6.Company settled out of court for far more money than I would have accepted at stage 1.

My point is if you believe you have been treated unfairly persistence can pay off.

Mick.