tazered teen? too much or no

[Darsa]

It is very easy to not get tased for running on the field...don't run on the field. Millions and millions of fans, some in single cities, manage to go to sporting events every year and not get tased. You know how, staying off of the field.

Exactly. Common sense people; you're born with it, I suggest to try to utilize it before deciding to run out onto a baseball field...

 

[Inigo]

I'd like to reply to a few of the comments and misconceptions that I've seen in this thread from a law enforcement officer's perspective.

1) The use of a Taser is not a form of punishment. It is an approved form of controling a non-compliant subject, which is exactly what they were dealing with. We don't use any of the of the tools available to us for punishment, but rather to acheive compliance and/or stop a threat. This guy will get his punishment when he goes in front of a judge.

2) For those who have posted about the Taser being equivalent to deadly force: I'll be blunt...that is total BS. How many people have died after being tased? Of those who have, how many were in good health prior to being tased? Any control techniques that we use above verbal commands come with a extremely slim chance of fatality. For example, if I opt not to use my Taser, but instead us a hands-on takedown of a fleeing subject, he could suffer any number of injuries that could somehow be fatal. While not likely, there is always that possibilty, but hands on techniques are not considered deadly force so why should a Taser. Beleive it or not, the subject is a lot less likely to be injured when tased than if it gets into a hands on situation, or worse yet, the use of a baton. Once the voltage is off, the subject will be left with only some muscle soreness and whatever bumps and scrapes he got from his fall.

3) From a policy perspective, most departments, including mine, allow the use of a Taser to stop a fleeing subject. I would be willing to bet that the officer was operating well within his department's policy.

4) Finally, the most important thing to us when we're out there is officer safety. I want to go home at the end of my shift in the same condition in which I left that morning. The taser, in most situations is hands down the safer option for an officer, as it allows us to gain control while minimizing the risk of having to get too close to the subject. It becomes much more dangerous when we go hands on with a subject. Even if he doesn't have a knife or gun concealed, if he chooses to fight we're still likely to suffer some sort of an injury in the process.

Just some input from a cop for you guys to chew on. Do with it what you will.

As a probation officer, ITA.

When I go on home visits to see probationers, I carry a gun and police strength mace. People are amazed, since I supervise juveniles, and don't think I should carry. Well, 1) my state laws and judge allow me to do so, and 2) my partner and I plan to go home at the end of the day. I wish they'd let me carry a taser too. I'd gladly take the ride to get to carry a taser.

 

[luvsJack]

Actually, I was watching both games (Cards fan) and I thought it was hysterical that they chanted it.

Not a matter of national security? Who knows what his intentions are......

I am a Braves fan, love baseball have for many years. I also happen to think wishing pain on my fellow man (regardless of how stupid that fellow man may be) for running around like an idiot on a baseball field, is sad.


I am not saying that the cops were necessarily wrong, I don't know I didn't see it. Obviously they felt the tazer was necessary.

Do you really beleive that someone endangering national security is going to make that kind of spectical of themselves? Somehow I don't think so.

 

[RadioNate]

Fans have been running on to baseball fields for as long as there have been baseball fields. Maybe they need to figure out a way to prevent it before the need for tazing someone?


It wasn't the smartest thing someone ever did but certainly not the dumbest and besides, obviously tazing him was not a deterrent so its probably not going to be for the next guy.

Personally I think a bunch of baseball fans yelling "taz him" is sad. It doesn't say much for society and what we think of each other. I mean, its a baseball game not a matter of national security or anything.

Really, you don't think sporting events, like a baseball game, could be potential terrorist targets?

I absolutely was thinking Monica Seles when I first supported the use of the taser however rogue terrorism absolutely entered my thoughts too.

I've been to major sporting events in 3 cities in the last month. 2 NBA games, 1 NHL game and a MLB game. In all venues the security was minimal. Sure they glanced in my purse but no one touched me, my DH or my kids. People without bags walked through completely unchecked. There were no metal detectors.

Yes THIS guy was harmless. This guy was an idiot running around on the field BUT what if he had been a suicide bomber? Sure maybe it was safe to assume that it is just some stupid kid but what if it wasn't? What if this kid DID have some kind of weapon or bomb. Then what?

In the moment, there was no way to know with 100% certainty what this person's intentions were.

Police should assume nothing and keep themselves as far from danger as possible.

This guy broke the law. He was non-compliant with the officers. He was "resisting" arrest. They used non-lethal force to stop him.

Don't like the consequences? Don't do the crime.

 

[luvsJack]

Oh please Philly fans just saw the humor in the situation. I dont think a cop is going to react to what the crowd is chanting.

I doubt they would have, but I fail to see the humor in wanting to see someone in pain.

If you take baseball that seriously, you need to step away. Its a game, to watch, for enjoyment.

Again, I am not saying the tazer wasn't necessary. But, the fact is the use of the tazer wasn't meant to "teach him a lesson" it was meant to stop him. So for anyone to say "he got what he deserved" kind of misses the point of the cops using the thing.

 

[Mkrop]

Really, you don't think sporting events, like a baseball game, could be potential terrorist targets?

I absolutely was thinking Monica Seles when I first supported the use of the taser however rogue terrorism absolutely entered my thoughts too.

I've been to major sporting events in 3 cities in the last month. 2 NBA games, 1 NHL game and a MLB game. In all venues the security was minimal. Sure they glanced in my purse but no one touched me, my DH or my kids. People without bags walked through completely unchecked. There were no metal detectors.

Yes THIS guy was harmless. This guy was an idiot running around on the field BUT what if he had been a suicide bomber? Sure maybe it was safe to assume that it is just some stupid kid but what if it wasn't? What if this kid DID have some kind of weapon or bomb. Then what?

In the moment, there was no way to know with 100% certainty what this person's intentions were.

Police should assume nothing and keep themselves as far from danger as possible.

This guy broke the law. He was non-compliant with the officers. He was "resisting" arrest. They used non-lethal force to stop him.
Don't like the consequences? Don't do the crime.

Yep and guy #2 who ran out the next night was dumb to run on the field too but he was at least "smart" enough to drop to the ground when the police ordered him to.

 

[disney junky]

i don't understand the poll, so i can't answer that.

Agreed. Poll is contradictory. I think if he had been spanked as a child, he wouldn't have needed to be tazered as a 17 year old.

 

[Octoberbride03]

I'd like to reply to a few of the comments and misconceptions that I've seen in this thread from a law enforcement officer's perspective.

1) The use of a Taser is not a form of punishment. It is an approved form of controling a non-compliant subject, which is exactly what they were dealing with. We don't use any of the of the tools available to us for punishment, but rather to acheive compliance and/or stop a threat. This guy will get his punishment when he goes in front of a judge.

2) For those who have posted about the Taser being equivalent to deadly force: I'll be blunt...that is total BS. How many people have died after being tased? Of those who have, how many were in good health prior to being tased? Any control techniques that we use above verbal commands come with a extremely slim chance of fatality. For example, if I opt not to use my Taser, but instead us a hands-on takedown of a fleeing subject, he could suffer any number of injuries that could somehow be fatal. While not likely, there is always that possibilty, but hands on techniques are not considered deadly force so why should a Taser. Beleive it or not, the subject is a lot less likely to be injured when tased than if it gets into a hands on situation, or worse yet, the use of a baton. Once the voltage is off, the subject will be left with only some muscle soreness and whatever bumps and scrapes he got from his fall.

3) From a policy perspective, most departments, including mine, allow the use of a Taser to stop a fleeing subject. I would be willing to bet that the officer was operating well within his department's policy.

4) Finally, the most important thing to us when we're out there is officer safety. I want to go home at the end of my shift in the same condition in which I left that morning. The taser, in most situations is hands down the safer option for an officer, as it allows us to gain control while minimizing the risk of having to get too close to the subject. It becomes much more dangerous when we go hands on with a subject. Even if he doesn't have a knife or gun concealed, if he chooses to fight we're still likely to suffer some sort of an injury in the process.

Just some input from a cop for you guys to chew on. Do with it what you will.

It still amazes me how many people still think being tasered will do any lasting form of damage. I took a self defense course in college and the instructor gave us info on tasers and how many he had tried. Bottom line is if you are a completely healthy individual as the 17yr old obviously is you have no worries other than the temporary electrical shock you get. And that was early 90s. There has since been whole new generations of tasers put out on the market.

The boy is fine and for his parents for saying he shouldn't have done it instead of coming down on the officer for doing his job.

 

[Mkrop]

I doubt they would have, but I fail to see the humor in wanting to see someone in pain.

If you take baseball that seriously, you need to step away. Its a game, to watch, for enjoyment.

Again, I am not saying the tazer wasn't necessary. But, the fact is the use of the tazer wasn't meant to "teach him a lesson" it was meant to stop him. So for anyone to say "he got what he deserved" kind of misses the point of the cops using the thing.

I dont take it that seriously, it is a game, which is why I can see the humor in the fans chanting that. I dont wish pain on someone, it was a funny chant.

 

[dzorn]

Though it is rare but people do die from tasers. For running on a field they went to far. Was it a stupid thing for the kid to do yes, was it worth the chance to kill someone no.

Poll is still confusing, I think I voted opposite of my feelings.

Denise in MI

 

[dzorn]

It still amazes me how many people still think being tasered will do any lasting form of damage. I took a self defense course in college and the instructor gave us info on tasers and how many he had tried. Bottom line is if you are a completely healthy individual as the 17yr old obviously is you have no worries other than the temporary electrical shock you get. And that was early 90s. There has since been whole new generations of tasers put out on the market.

The boy is fine and for his parents for saying he shouldn't have done it instead of coming down on the officer for doing his job.

People have undiagnosed heath problems all the time. For someone with a undiagnosed health problem it could mean death. That is pretty lasting.

Denise in MI

 

[eliza61]

Personally I think a bunch of baseball fans yelling "taz him" is sad. It doesn't say much for society and what we think of each other. I mean, its a baseball game not a matter of national security or anything.

Actually I think it says a lot about society.

It says we are sick and tired of people acting ******** and thinking age, race or childhood gives them a free pass.
It says we are sick and tired of people thinking they can break what ever rules they feel like and then whine about the consequences.
It says that we are tired of the "entitlement" syndrome. You do not have the right to act like a complete park ape in public because you want your 15 mins of fame on you tube.

 

[wdwfan16]

i don't understand the poll, so i can't answer that.

but i think it's a little absurd to taser someone who is just running around on a field. he wasn't endangering himself or anyone else. i mean what's next, just shooting someone for running on the field??

there were like 4 other people running after him BESIDES the cop and they were almost to the guy when the cop(was that even a cop? or was it a rent-a-cop?) decided to taser him.

I agree. There have been people die from being tasered.

More security should have come out, and they could have caught him without resorting to tasering.

He is still in his teens, immature, but yet he should have some sort of punishment. Community service or something. But definitely not tasering for an "offense" like that. Good grief.

He is not a child but an adult. He did a stupid thing. They chased him and he kept running. A cop tazered him. He deserved it.

If you do not want to be tazered then do not break the rules. He knew not to do this but still did it. 19 is old enough to know right from wrong.

He had is 5 minuted of fame. He could have dropped to the ground and stopped running and then not got tazered.

 

[pansmermaidzlagoon]

I agree. There have been people die from being tasered.

More security should have come out, and they could have caught him without resorting to tasering.

He is still in his teens, immature, but yet he should have some sort of punishment. Community service or something. But definitely not tasering for an "offense" like that. Good grief.

I agree.

there should be definite rules for using Tasers and those that carry them should be schooled in their use and held responsible for using them under only the most appropriate circumstances. Incidents of irresponsible Taser use seem to be escalating and something needs to be done about that.

kids pulling pranks isn't responsible use - nor is using it as a fall back because the officer is too out of shape to catch the kid - or in other cases where the officer has failed to control the situation in a professional manner and is now frustrated or out of control himself.

I agree the kid should not be made a celebrity and that there should be a strict punishment.

 

[wdwfan16]

Fans have been running on to baseball fields for as long as there have been baseball fields. Maybe they need to figure out a way to prevent it before the need for tazing someone?


It wasn't the smartest thing someone ever did but certainly not the dumbest and besides, obviously tazing him was not a deterrent so its probably not going to be for the next guy.

Personally I think a bunch of baseball fans yelling "taz him" is sad. It doesn't say much for society and what we think of each other. I mean, its a baseball game not a matter of national security or anything.

Tazering was not a form of punishment but a way to stop him and arrest him.

If they jumped him he could have also been hurt. Stupidity can hurt and that is the price one pays for being stupid.

 

[luvsJack]

Really, you don't think sporting events, like a baseball game, could be potential terrorist targets?

I absolutely was thinking Monica Seles when I first supported the use of the taser however rogue terrorism absolutely entered my thoughts too.

I've been to major sporting events in 3 cities in the last month. 2 NBA games, 1 NHL game and a MLB game. In all venues the security was minimal. Sure they glanced in my purse but no one touched me, my DH or my kids. People without bags walked through completely unchecked. There were no metal detectors.

Yes THIS guy was harmless. This guy was an idiot running around on the field BUT what if he had been a suicide bomber? Sure maybe it was safe to assume that it is just some stupid kid but what if it wasn't? What if this kid DID have some kind of weapon or bomb. Then what?

In the moment, there was no way to know with 100% certainty what this person's intentions were.

Police should assume nothing and keep themselves as far from danger as possible.

This guy broke the law. He was non-compliant with the officers. He was "resisting" arrest. They used non-lethal force to stop him.

Don't like the consequences? Don't do the crime.

My comment was not about whether this guy should have been tazed. The cops felt is was necessary so it must have been. I certainly will not judge what someone who puts his life on the line for me every day determines is or is not reasonable force.

My comment was about the crowd chanting "taz him". I just believe that it is a sad statement of our society when we start wishing physical pain on someone for running across a baseball field.

 

[Darsa]

It says we are sick and tired of people acting ******** and thinking age, race or childhood gives them a free pass.
It says we are sick and tired of people thinking they can break what ever rules they feel like and then whine about the consequences.
It says that we are tired of the "entitlement" syndrome. You do not have the right to act like a complete park ape in public because you want your 15 mins of fame on you tube.

ABSOLUTELY! In MY case anyway, I couldn't agree with these three things more.

 

[luvsJack]

I dont take it that seriously, it is a game, which is why I can see the humor in the fans chanting that. I dont wish pain on someone, it was a funny chant.

A chant that was wanting the cops to inflict pain on the guy.

 

[disney junky]

Fans have been running on to baseball fields for as long as there have been baseball fields. Maybe they need to figure out a way to prevent it before the need for tazing someone?


It wasn't the smartest thing someone ever did but certainly not the dumbest and besides, obviously tazing him was not a deterrent so its probably not going to be for the next guy.

Personally I think a bunch of baseball fans yelling "taz him" is sad. It doesn't say much for society and what we think of each other. I mean, its a baseball game not a matter of national security or anything.

I have three comments.

1. An individual is responsible for his actions. "they" whoever that is, cannot anticipate all of the stupidity a 17 year old can come up with in his mind. Creating ball parks which prevent any fan from ever entering the playing field? You can't possibly be serious. But that's the American way.

2. Obviously running out on a baseball field isn't the dumbest thing someone ever did, but that doesn't make it right. AND he knew what he was doing. And chose to do it anyway, accepting the risks.

3. Fans yelling "taz him" may be sad, but it speaks to how fed up the average person is watching idiots be idiots. That is the greater "sad" and what's even sadder is this idiot will probably find some idiot to represent him, threaten a law suit and get 10K because it's cheaper to settle than to fight with him.

And I'm sure he's a hero in his school this week with all the other people who find his behavior "harmless." I hope this kid is never allowed to enter a major league baseball stadium. I hope prospective employers know his name and face. I hope college admissions officers check out his facebook/my space page and know the type of person he is and what he might bring to their campuses. I hope his parents are humiliated by his behavior as I would be if he were my son. And, I hope for a really long time, he regrets what he did.

 

[luvsJack]

Actually I think it says a lot about society.

It says we are sick and tired of people acting ******** and thinking age, race or childhood gives them a free pass.
It says we are sick and tired of people thinking they can break what ever rules they feel like and then whine about the consequences.
It says that we are tired of the "entitlement" syndrome. You do not have the right to act like a complete park ape in public because you want your 15 mins of fame on you tube.

I am tired of all of that too but not to the point of wishing pain to be inflicted on someone for running across a baseball field.