taking photos in a church

[fortheluvofpooh]

ugh, why do mine come out so grainey? We had VBS this week and I shot in raw as per my class teacher saying "shoot in raw, it edits better". I just dont like the looks of it. I seem to have this problem in churches only, in house fine, outside fine. Church forget about it. I even used my onetouch white balance.

ETA I do have the noise reduction setting on.

 

[Code]

Onboard flashes only have a range of about 10 feet, so your whole photo is underexposed. Shadows have more noise than highlights (just the way it is) so an underexposed photo will look more noisy.

This, of course, assuming you used the onboard flash...

 

[fortheluvofpooh]

nope, used an external flash. thanks for trying though.

 

[YesDear]

What lens, and how far away were you. What camera and flash?

 

[MICKEY88]

could you share more info..

did you bounce the flash, direct flash..


camera settings etc..exif data..

 

[rtphokie]

Heres the EXIF:

Camera Make: OLYMPUS IMAGING CORP.
Camera Model: E-500
Image Date: 2008:07:31 21:02:28
Flash Used: Yes (Manual)
Focal Length: 65.0mm
Exposure Time: 0.0080 s (1/125)
Aperture: f/3.9
ISO equiv: 400
White Balance: Manual
Metering Mode: Matrix
Exposure: program (Auto)

The problem is probably that the shot was taken in Auto mode and it's just not getting enough light, even with the external flash. You could take a flash shot of a completely white room in full daylight and the photo will come out dark if the aperture and shutter speed aren't right.

The graininess is coming from the high ISO setting. Try setting that at 200 or lower.

Try one of the night modes your camera offers. Better yet, use one of the more manual modes so you have more control and aren't at the mercy of the camera.

Was this taken with the ZUIKO lens that came with the camera? If so, you've the aperture as almost wide as it will go, not much you can do there (short of getting another lens capable of a lower f value). Make sure the flash isn't pointing up if the ceilings are tall in that room. Also 1/125s is a pretty fast shutter speed.

Try Shutter Priority mode, the camera will naturally go to f3.5, ISO 200, and try a longer shutter speed, something like 1/60 or 1/30 and see how it looks. If you subjects aren't moving much, the slower shutter will be fine, if they are animated types, you'll be stuck with a faster shutter speed. Experiment before you need to take the pictures.

There are 3 factors that control how dark a photo is, shutter speed, aperture, and ISO.

• The faster the shutter, the less light gets to the sensor, the darker the photo.
• The higher the aperture (the f settings mentioned above), the smaller the opening light has to get through in the lens. There is some good info here on this confusing subject
• The higher the ISO the more light sensitive the sensor the sensor (or film in the oldern days) is but granier the result will be. This is less more of an issue with consumer cameras than pro level cameras.

So it's a balancing act between these 3 settings. Your camera is smart and probably does a pretty good job in auto mode 99% of the time. It's just not cutting it here. Maybe there's some other light source in the room that's throwing it off. Also make sure you let the camera figure out the right settings for the shot you are about to take, press the shutter halfway and let it adjust before taking the shot.

The best advice is to get out the manual and learn about the 3 settings above and get comfortable with the manual and priority modes. If you take photos indoors in low light a lot, you might consider adding a f2.X lens, other Olympus owners may have some suggestions there.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Maybe this and other articles in the series will help.

 

[fortheluvofpooh]

Heres the EXIF:

Camera Make: OLYMPUS IMAGING CORP.
Camera Model: E-500
Image Date: 2008:07:31 21:02:28
Flash Used: Yes (Manual)
Focal Length: 65.0mm
Exposure Time: 0.0080 s (1/125)
Aperture: f/3.9
ISO equiv: 400
White Balance: Manual
Metering Mode: Matrix
Exposure: program (Auto)

The probably is probably that the shot was taken in Auto mode and it's just not getting enough light, even with the external flash. You could take a flash shot of a completely white room in full daylight and the photo will come out dark if the aperture and shutter speed aren't right.

The graininess is coming from the high ISO setting. Try setting that at 200 or lower.

Try one of the night modes your camera offers. Better yet, use one of the more manual modes so you have more control and aren't at the mercy of the camera.

Was this taken with the ZUIKO lens that came with the camera? If so, you've the aperture as almost wide as it will go, not much you can do there (short of getting another lens capable of a lower f value). Make sure the flash isn't pointing up if the ceilings are tall in that room. Also 1/125s is a pretty fast shutter speed.

Try Shutter Priority mode, the camera will naturally go to f3.5, ISO 200, and try a longer shutter speed, something like 1/60 or 1/30 and see how it looks. If you subjects aren't moving much, the slower shutter will be fine, if they are animated types, you'll be stuck with a faster shutter speed. Experiment before you need to take the pictures.

There are 3 factors that control how dark a photo is, shutter speed, aperture, and ISO.

• The slower the shutter, the less light gets to the sensor, the darker the photo.
• The higher the aperture (the f settings mentioned above), the smaller the opening light has to get through in the lens. There is some good info here on this confusing subject
• The higher the ISO the more light sensitive the sensor the sensor (or film in the oldern days) is but granier the result will be. This is less more of an issue with consumer cameras than pro level cameras.

So it's a balancing act between these 3 settings. Your camera is smart and probably does a pretty good job in auto mode 99% of the time. It's just not cutting it here. Maybe there's some other light source in the room that's throwing it off. Also make sure you let the camera figure out the right settings for the shot you are about to take, press the shutter halfway and let it adjust before taking the shot.

The best advice is to get out the manual and learn about the 3 settings above and get comfortable with the manual and priority modes. If you take photos indoors in low light a lot, you might consider adding a f2.X lens, other Olympus owners may have some suggestions there.

I have been trying to get out of auto mode so I was set on P and used the one touch white balance. I have been going to classes to get out of the auto mode and when I am anywhere else I am really impressed with what I can do, it is just in the church. Also wanted to add, that this was just an experiment of photos, nothing I am doing as a job. PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE is my motto. I appreciate your input.

Lori

 

[fortheluvofpooh]

Maybe this and other articles in the series will help.

thank you for the link, it is good to know it isn't just me.

 

[rtphokie]

I have been trying to get out of auto mode so I was set on P and used the one touch white balance. I have been going to classes to get out of the auto mode and when I am anywhere else I am really impressed with what I can do, it is just in the church. Also wanted to add, that this was just an experiment of photos, nothing I am doing as a job. PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE is my motto. I appreciate your input.

Lori

Classes can be good if that's how you learn best. My mom got a lot out of the free classes she was offered when she bought her DSLR. Others find them frustrating. A good book may be all you need. You are absolutely right that practice is the best teacher.

One thing I forgot to mention: Noise reduction = blur. In software that you run on a photo on your PC it's intelligent blur. In the camera where it's run for a few miliseconds over the image file, it's heavy handed blur. Once it's run there's detail that's lost that cant be restored. Personally, I'd turn that off in camera and do it once you've loaded the photos onto your computer. There at least you've got the control to tell if you like the results or not. There are a lot of good programs out there, some are free. I like Noiseware Community Edition

 

[fortheluvofpooh]

Classes can be good if that's how you learn best. My mom got a lot out of the free classes she was offered when she bought her DSLR. Others find them frustrating. A good book may be all you need. You are absolutely right that practice is the best teacher.

One thing I forgot to mention: Noise reduction = blur. In software that you run on a photo on your PC it's intelligent blur. In the camera where it's run for a few miliseconds over the image file, it's heavy handed blur. Once it's run there's detail that's lost that cant be restored. Personally, I'd turn that off in camera and do it once you've loaded the photos onto your computer. There at least you've got the control to tell if you like the results or not. There are a lot of good programs out there, some are free. I like Noiseware Community Edition

thank you I didn't know that about the noise reduction on camera. I will go change that and try again. I have Photoshop 6.0 so I can adjust the noise on the computer. I am thankful to the disboards for the help. I shoot in RAW does that make for a grainier photo? Thanks
Lori

 

[Pea-n-Me]

thank you I didn't know that about the noise reduction on camera. I will go change that and try again. I have Photoshop 6.0 so I can adjust the noise on the computer.

You could try experimenting with the in-camera NR on, and off, and see what happens. Also, are you using a tripod for these in-church photos?

 

[MICKEY88]

There are 3 factors that control how dark a photo is, shutter speed, aperture, and ISO.

• The slower the shutter, the less light gets to the sensor, the darker the photo..

• 
  
  actually the slower the shutter speed the more light gets to the sensor,the lighter the picture..

 

[handicap18]

Churches are awful for lighting. High ceilings and terrible lights. When I shoot in a church (not very often) I usually use a high ISO 800 at least and my speedlight without a diffuser. I usually try for around 1/60th shutter as the flash will help with any motion blur. If no flashes are allowed then its the 50mm f/1.8 or 30mm f/1.4 with ISO 1600 and probably around f/2.8 or wider.

Looking at the image you posted it looks like first the focus point is off. If you look at the little girl and boy in front they look like they are in focus, but your main subject at the podium is a bit out of focus.

Another thing is your ISO is 400 and your shutter is 1/125. If you bump your ISO to 800 and use 1/60th you'll be able to gather a lot more light and even be able to use a smaller aperture which would give you a shaper image.

For that image how far away from the subject were you?

 

[seashoreCM]

The camera might be incapable of taking a better picture.

Bumping the ISO to 800 let alone 1600 will make the picture even more grainy.

If you choose a slower shutter speed then you have more problems with blur in moving subjects.

If you choose lesser zoom to achieve a bigger aperture, the subject is smaller upon the sensor (or film) and enlarging/cropping it later magnifies the grain also.

Your only choices might be a more powerful flash or a faster lens.

 

[rtphokie]

actually the slower the shutter speed the more light gets to the sensor,the lighter the picture..

You are absolutely right, I've fixed that original post.

 

[rtphokie]

I shoot in RAW does that make for a grainier photo?

No RAW gives you greater control over the color and is not compressed so you aren't loosing detail with RAW.

 

[YesDear]

From looking at your photo, camera settings, and the focal length of the lens, etc., I think your flash did not fire with a full charge or you were outside the length of the flash. Are you posting the full image or has it been cropped? What flash did you use and did it fire? Was it a direct flash or a bounce flash?

Looking at your picture I am not sure I see the strong evidence of flash glare you see with a direct flash picture or the remnants of a bounce flash.

At ISO 400 and 65mm lens at the shutter speed you took the picture, with a working flash you shoud have been able to take a picture without that amount of noise.