Swimming in Alphabet Soup, can you help please?

redshoes

<font color=red>I'm sitting here watching the new
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I hoping that some of you would be willing to offer me some advice and opinions on my DS.

His background is long so forgive me for the length of this post. I'll try to hit the major points and then if there's questions please ask.

My DS is 6. He was adopted at birth from a birthmom who had a nonverbal learning disorder that required accommodations to made for in school. Her mom claimed that she had grown out of her disorder :confused3. She was 21 when she gave birth to C. She was taking Effexor throughout her whole pg. Her family history is full of depression and ADHD. We have no history of his birthdad, only a brief physical description and the fact that he was a special education teacher where birthmom worked at (she was not a student there at all, there has been some confusion about their situation in the past). It is doubtful to me that she drank or did drugs, she was an extreme rule follower. But things have surprised me before.

DS spoke early. Around 8 months. I can't remember his first word because it seemed that he skipped words and went straight to full sentences. He did not walk until he was 18 months old and even then required PT because he overextended and locked his knees. He had OT for gross as well fine motor skill delays around 1 year old. He had extreme acid reflux and still suffers with it now. He has thyroid issues. He lacks growth hormone and up until a month ago was getting HGH injections very night. Before HGH treatment, he was small and had a FTT dx. With DS health, it has always been something.

He did well in K last year but was full of anxiety about social situations. He is clumsy and was easy sadden by the fact that he couldn't keep up with his peers on the playground. An example of social issues is the fact that three weeks into school, I asked him who he played with at recess and he said no one asks me to play so I stand by myself on the fence the whole time. After explaining that no one was going to invite him to play and that he just needed to join in, he did better. By the end of the year, he had friends. He was invited to a few birthday parties, but he does better one-on-one and not with a whole group of kids.

Academically he does well in some subjects and struggles in others. He reads at a higher level but can be distracted easily. He struggles with math when written out but can do it easily if it is visual. Hand writing is hard but he is doing better with a lot of practice. He has an incredible memory which he describes as a movie in his head. He can recall things in great detail down to what he was wearing at the time and what the smells and sounds were around him from experiences that happen three years ago. He describes things from almost a different vantage point. An example, my Dad and him were looking at a mosaic that was clearly a maze. My Dad commented "look at the maze C". C commented back, "it's not a maze, it's amazing". Keep in mind he was three at the time.

His eye contact is not good. If asked to focus on you when he is in the middle of a conversation he can do it but not for an extended period of time. He tries hard to please people around him but has a temper that comes out mostly at home (no issues at school, no issues with playdates, my MIL thinks he is a perfect angel)that is distressing to say the least. I have known for a long time that he had anxiety. He use to pick his nail beds until they bleed or he would bite his lip. Flaws in things bother him to the point that he will pick at them until the item is either ruined or the flaw is no longer present.

He uses silliness to cover up other feelings. When he is angry if you can get him to attach an event to the reason why he is feeling that way, you are almost always given a list of things that went wrong from that day to six months earlier. He is engaging with adults who find him endearing. He is not obsessed with items but time and disorder with his schedule is always upsetting. He loves to travel but needs to be briefed about activities before going.
He struggles with sleep, says his mind races and he gets stuck when trying fall asleep. He is very jealous of his older brother who is very different from him (athletic, easy going, social).

This summer was the tipping point for him and us. The best way to describe his behavior is like that of a beehive. Every once in awhile we would get stung, but this summer after starting therapy if was a full on swarm. After taking him to a therapist for what I thought was simple anxiety issues, he raged. The therapist suggested C had behavioral issues that could be fixed by changing our parenting. A timeout room was established, he was put there when he was misbehaving. It went alright for the first day, then he trashed my house. I mean he trashed it, threw things, broke things, flooded things, and did unmentionable things to carpets and walls. This went on for weeks, the therapist said give it time, it will get better, lock things up and the assault continued. He could not be left alone, even for a minute because he would trash something. After three weeks, the therapist suggested Prozac- that made things worse if that was possible. Therapist said to hospitalize him, we did for a week and now he is a day treatment program for a few more weeks.

C is doing better. He is not raging any longer but I feel like we are no closer to knowing the whys as we were when he was hospitalized. Drs are saying ADHD or ADD. They have thrown RAD at us, but are now saying no. Mood disorder NOS (with the idea that it could morph into BP later) and anxiety NOS is what they are claiming now. I'm not sure how they came to the mood disorder dx. They have left open a PDD spectrum dx (they are saying possible Aspergers or NVLD) but they are unsure. We have a Neuro Psych scheduled for next month. We have since discontinued seeing the previous therapist who in my opinion dropped the ball. DH and I are doing our best with keeping calm, using short words to explain our wants behavior wise. C talks about his feeling better, and we don't nag or lose our tempers as quickly with him but it still feels like we are flying blind.

This has truly been a parenting nightmare. Never in my wildest dreams did I think that we end up on this path, but that doesn't change the fact that I love my son dearly.
I want to be a better parent to him and for him but my own temperament requires some sort of gameplan. So that is where ya'll come in- what are your impressions of my DS. Play armchair Dr with me and tell me what you think because at this point I would love any guidance I can get. I have my own idea of what is going on but I fear voicing to will make me seem stupid.
 
Honestly, your son sounds a lot like mine. DS has Asperger's and ADHD (mostly ADD but diagnostically it is ADHD). He does not trash rooms. I am wondering though if the change in parenting is to blame for that. He didn't trash the house until the therapist suggested time out. Time out worked for DS when he was little. He is 14 now. I can't offer much as far as advice goes since I couldn't get a doctor to listen for years. I lived in a small town with a doctor that had the attitude of he is a boy, he will grow out of it. After I left my Ex I found a great doctor. She said, let's get the ADHD under control then test. I didn't get a diagnosis until he was 11 and a half years old. I just sort of stumbled on my own for years. But the first part of the description of your son sounds so much like Z when he was a little boy. ((HUGS)) to you. I know it is tough and it can seem lonely when you know no one with a special needs child.

I will say this. I am older now and much much more wise than I was when I was younger. I don't know how old you are. But this is what I have learned on my journey. I got pregnant with DS when I was all of 19 years old. I had him one month before my 20th birthday. I did not argue with doctors. I thought...hey, they went to school for this, they know better than I. But my son showed signs of autism at 4 months old. I SHOULD have fought for a diagnosis then. But I was young and naive. I am older and wiser now. I did all the research about my DS. I had everything. I printed it out. I kept my thoughts in a word document so that they were always there. I printed the research to back up my thoughts. I was not diagnosing my son. I had reason to believe he had autism. Turns out I was right. BUT I think that showing the doctor all the evidence helped her see that maybe I was right. She did refer me to a neuro-psychologist because she said she was not able to give the diagnosis. But she knows when I show up with a folder, I mean business. I talk to her in the hall since DS is old enough to understand. He is very high functioning so if you say something in front of him, he researches it on the internet. Sometimes information is a bad thing. It causes anxiety attacks in him. Anyway, basically in a very round about way I am trying to say that if you have an inkiling, feeling, sixth sense or just KNOW....then talk to the doctors about it. IF they won't listen to you or just dismiss you, find a new doctor that will listen and take your opinion into consideration. If they cannot give you a VALID reason they don't think it could be what you think, then you need to find different doctors.

Just remember, you are not alone. If you ever need to talk to someone who has been there, just PM me. Because though my sister has three kids...she has no clue what I go through on a daily basis. Only those of us that have been there and done that know what it is like and it can be a very lonely road. Just remember that it doesn't have to be and we are here for you whether it is to celebrate an achievement or vent about the injustice of it all.
 
Get a copy of Tony Attwood's "the complete guide to Aspergers" which is available on Amazon for about $17. Most of what you describe is typcial for kids who have the characteristics that are included in that genetic set. Your description of the biological family is a good indicator also. The physiological issues while seperate can maginfiy the impact. 6 is the common age where self adaptation often is not enough.

Alphabet soup is what imcompitent clinicians create when they try to diagnose our kids, and since it never gets to the core of the issue is often very damaging.

One you read the book make an appointment with a regional center that specializes in Aspergers.

The good news is that once he is understood and properly supported most of our kids are truely amazing and while there are allways challenges there are many more joys and increadable potential.

bookwormde
 
I am wondering though if the change in parenting is to blame for that. He didn't trash the house until the therapist suggested time out.
I had this thought also. Sounds like it was the change of plans that he could not deal with, kids with anxiety thrive on routine.
We tried Prozac to help DS10 with his anxiety and it made him agitated. He takes zoloft now. You never know how each individual will react to a medication. Some never find one they can tolerate.

With the lack of growth and thyroid issues I would be picking the endo's brain. Thyroid conditions interfere with concentation, what do they do for that? Keep the endo aware of any behavior concerns so it's being looked at from this side too.

RAD sounds so wrong to me, I can not believe the dx was on the table (bad psych!). There would be some key behaviors you would have noticed by now. RAD kids are generally not anxious children, actually they tend to never worry. They are pushy on the playground, not awkward. The lie to get their wants met, but not their needs, they hide their needs. RAD is a devil all its own... you'd know.
 

I would #1 look at his diet. Are there any possible triggers there?

#2 the rages need to be your top priority. Forget what the therapist said, sounds like the timeout room is a bad idea. Try to find another method.

I would suggest The Explosive Child by Ross Greene. Read it and try to utilize those techniques.

I would avoid all meds to see if you can get the rages under control without them. If not, you will have to look at meds but be very careful.

Get the book Bookwormde suggested above. Everything you mention does fit AS unless his rages are not sensory or anxiety provoked, in which case you might be looking at Bipolar. The book the Bipolar Child is good. Is he having "down swings" such as depression, trouble sleeping, tiredness, separation anxiety? Those might point towards the Bipolar presentation. I would suggest looking at it as Bipolar only after all other methods have failed.

Try to eliminate his anxiety. If the rages are anxiety provoked you need to give him lots of attention and reassurances, letting him know you are there to help him. Do not focus on discipline right now. The discipline could make things worse-especially discipline geared towards NT children.

These are the things I would focus on, based on my own experience.
 
The therapist who recommended the time out idea was clearly incompetent since if she did not start a skills program, when was in effect just having you punish your child for a manifestation of a disability, which is perceived by the child as abuse (and by most knowledgeable clinicians and educators).

Do not take this a person criticism since all of us with exceptional children has have done the same when listening to uniformed people. The good thing is that once we realize what we did and explain and apologies to our kids they are exceptionally forgiving.

Please find a new therapist ASAP who is not a behaviorist and focuses on needs and skills, the one you have has caused massive damage to your child.

bookwormde
 
First:hug:

Ditto to what everyone else has said. You are great mom. And it is frustrating. Our DS is 7 and was diagnosed at 5. It was his Pre-k teacher that approached us and asked if we would mind getting him tested. everyone else thought we were nuts. "You're too easy on him", "he's a boy they mature later than girls". He too started doing things early. He potty trained in a week before his 3rd birthday so he could go to the child watch at our local grocery store. He taught himself to read at 3. Adults have always found him engaging also. He is just now starting to interact with peers but he still prefers older kids and adults.

We have been having issues with rages with him. Ask him to pick up a sock and he goes from sweet to raising his hands and yelling in less than 5 seconds. We have him in therapy but are questioning if it's the right therapist. We have eliminated gluten from his diet and feel that has helped.

Keep at it and as others have said, "go with your gut" you're the mom, you know.
 
Thank you so much for your opinions. I bought Tony Attwood's book yesterday on my Kindle ($14.82) and read it most of the day. So much of it rang true to me. I also bought a book called "Quirky, Yes Hopeless, No" and read it also. There wasn't one issue that didn't describe C.

DH and I have done a ton of soul searching when it comes to C and we know that we made a mistake with the therapist. We honestly had the best of intentions but now in hindsight we see that the whole thought of continuing down a path that is only becoming more and more dangerous behavioral wise was and is just plain stupid on our part. C was trying to tell us something and we didn't listen to him.

Anxiety has always been at a higher level with C. His rages are anxiety driven. If I look at them from a different viewpoint, I can see the anxiety in them. We've had meltdowns over eating at a certain restaurant, he thought that since we had eaten at our favorite two times before we would eat there the third time we went out. We didn't give him any notice and just expected him to roll with it.

Some of his rages are skill induced. What I mean by that is that he can't do something or he can't do it perfect and so he rages.

The other rages are due to jealously of his older brother who is 15 months older than C is. Oldest DS has a strong personality. He is outgoing, athletic, and easy going. All the things that C is not and it seems that in last six months he started to compare himself to his older brother and came up short in his own opinion every time. It doesn't matter how often we told C that we love him for what he is, he didn't believe it. I honestly see this being an outgoing issue with these two.

We seemed to stubble into the perfect storm this summer. We adopted our last child, a little baby girl who has drawn away a lot of C's attention. We took him to a therapist and did more damage than good. I was told to emotionally withdraw from him and to stop parenting him in the way that I had been doing, which changed the rules on him. He joined a baseball team and struggled, he tried tumbling and struggled. He was nervous about starting 1st grade and being gone all day long. So many things that would make me nervous and anxious in themselves all piled on top of a six year old boy who doesn't have the skills to ask for help and can't deal with them himself.

I will be surprised if we don't get an AS dx next month and for some reason that brings me great comfort. Something has always been different, not bad just different with C and if it's AS than the picture on the puzzle is just coming more into focus. DH and I can do this, it won't be easy but we can do it. Thank you so much to everyone who was willing to answer my post, you helped in more ways than you could know.
 
You did what you thought was the right thing at the time. You can't change that and it's okay. Every parenting decision we make whether it's for our ASD kids or our NT kids is not 100% fail proof. The most important thing we can do is keep trying. Some things work, some don't. And some things that work today, don't work tomorrow. But it's okay. It sounds from your posts that both you and your DH are dedicated loving parents and none of us can be more than that.


Keep us posted, we're all in this together (HSM reference not intended, but what the Heck:goodvibes)
 
Perfectionism is one our kids characteristics, and being able to decide when it has real value is a skill that has to be taught. Take everything back to a baseline and trust your instincts now that you are becoming knowledgeable.
If you need an uplifting book read Genius Genes by Michel Fitzgerald and Brendon O'Brian. It is about the contributions and potential that people with the same genetic base as our kids have.

You were not stupid just uniformed, the clinican was the stupid one (and dangerious), we have all been there so do not waste a moments energy worrying about it, just use that energy to become as fully informed as you can.

bookwormde
 
I just have to say that this sound like me writing about my son. We have tried so many things, including therapy that just seemed to make things worse. His pediatrician kept telling us, "Oh, he's a boy. He'll grow out of it. Give him time." My mom swears that DH and I just have bad parenting skills, yet our DD has none of these issues.

We have gone through several dr's and gotten a handful of dx's but nothing final. We are trying to get him into see a specialist, but they want a referral from his regular ped - the one I quoted above. Needless to say, she wouldn't give the referral. We are looking for a new dr. now. It's difficult b/c we live out in the middle of nowhere, and resources and dr's are scarce.

He started kindergarted this year, and it has been an ordeal. That's another story for another day. I've tried to get the school to test him, but due to budget constraints they can only observe him this 1st year and possibly test him next year if they see any reason to - unless I get an official dx from the pediatrician.

We are running in circles chasing our tails here. I read your post and wanted to cry and hug you :hug: b/c it sounds so much like us - right down to the violent outbursts.

I also bought the book - Tony Attwood's "the complete guide to Aspergers" and it sounds like my son to a T

If only I can get someone in the medical field to listen...

It is becoming increasingly difficult as he get older.

Best of luck to you. Please keep us updated.
 
Some therapists get overconfident about their abilities to "cure" a patient. Believe it or not, it's encouraged and almost required by their schools of origin. It's very difficult for many of them to admit that a diagnosis will perfectly describe a patient's problems and therefore prescribe what actions should be taken or not taken.
It's sort of a political problem in the theraputic community, and it usually works to the patient's detriment. I'm a health/mental health social worker (MSW), and I admit it!
Every person's problems are different and must be handled differently. A diagnosis should only be used as a framework to guide the therapy. Obviously, the therapist the OP used was too rigid for the child in question.
From the OP's description, it appears that the child had a fear of separation far greater than the usual separation anxiety. In this case, the usual time out was not a good choice. Neither was the withdrawal of affection. Children like this need structure, notice of any changes with a good deal of preparation beforehand, and enough control to keep their anxiety in check without taking so much control that they can't control themselves.
I did the time out thing with my children before they even called it time out, but I did it differently. Instead of making it a punishment for being "bad", it was a way to cool down. I told them when they felt they were ready to be civilized, they could rejoin the rest of the family. Sometimes I even put myself into cool down after announcing to them that I was getting too upset. The kids could save face by deciding when they were ready to behave in an acceptable fashion and still maintain the concept of self control.
When they were too young to understand the concept and were too busy throwing screaming fits, I would just turn my back on them and tell them (while staying nearby), that I wouldn't pay attention until they were ready to stop screaming and/or throwing a fit. I would then keep a running conversation, supposedly to myself, about how I couldn't hear a thing (right!) but that I would be happy to talk or whatever was needed (insert phrase here).
Sometimes children just need to be taught how to self regulate their emotions in a safe place without fear that they will be abandoned or that love will be withdrawn. Children with anxiety disorders are like a locomotive going down a mountain without a brake. They need to be helped to find safe places to hold their anxiety. They need to be helped to know when they are on the verge of getting out of control. They need to find a way of communicating that and establishing a routine for calming down and diverting the anxiety.
Reading a book is a good calming device. Petting a family dog or cat, especially one that will return affection, can help a great deal. Doing handicrafts like knitting, crocheting, coloring, drawing, jewelry making, woodworking, or playing a musical instrument can be helpful. Repetition and familiarity are the mainstays of this technique, and it is best if the person can do it on their own. This way, they can have a feeling of being in control of their own actions and emotions.
What you are looking at is really a form of harmless, socially acceptable self soother. The nail biting, cuticle picking, hair pulling and twisting behaviors you see in children with problems like this are attempts at self soothing that have become destructive. They are really hard habits to change.
No matter what, therapy needs to be tailored to the individual and to that person's family. I am really surprised that no one has suggested family therapy so that the whole family can learn to cope in a functional way. It is also surprising that a child has been in regular therapy and not play therapy initially. A child that young isn't in the developmental stage for a more rigidly structured theraputic framework.
Well, you've all gotten more than my 2 cents worth! Any questions?
 
Thank you so much for your opinions. I bought Tony Attwood's book yesterday on my Kindle ($14.82) and read it most of the day. So much of it rang true to me. I also bought a book called "Quirky, Yes Hopeless, No" and read it also. There wasn't one issue that didn't describe C.

The "Quirky..." book has become my go to book for my son. Every chapter gave me insight on how he views the world.

On some points, you are describing my DS 19. Didn't talk much until he was 2, and then it was full sentences. Didn't "toddle," started walking when he felt confident. He is exceptionally bright in English and vocabulary but struggles in other subjects. Take heart - he is now a freshman in college.

We went through four psychologists, one psychiatrist and numerous school psychologists and social workers. It took TEN years before we received an Asperger's with anxiety diagnosis. It breaks my heart to know what my son was going through and NO ONE could help or give him a break. I admire his perseverance because he never gave up! Not happy with the counselor? Move on until you find one that understands and helps the situation.

As for the "beehive," you DS just can't find a way to control his emotions and feelings. My son developed his own tactics - go to his room, watch tv, read a book or get a snack, anything to calm his sensory overload that caused the anxiety.

Once you get a reign on things now, it will get better. Middle school was absolute hell for DS, teachers were only kind because I was kind to them. Remember, my son wasn't diagnosed until he was nearly 18, if only we knew then...

You sound like a wonderful, kind and loving mother. Bless you for only wanting the best for this child, he is fortunate to be chosen by you and your husband!

You have friends here on the Disboard. We've been there (or currently living there!). :hug:
 
DH and I have done a ton of soul searching when it comes to C and we know that we made a mistake with the therapist. We honestly had the best of intentions but now in hindsight we see that the whole thought of continuing down a path that is only becoming more and more dangerous behavioral wise was and is just plain stupid on our part. C was trying to tell us something and we didn't listen to him.

We seemed to stubble into the perfect storm this summer. We adopted our last child, a little baby girl who has drawn away a lot of C's attention. We took him to a therapist and did more damage than good. I was told to emotionally withdraw from him and to stop parenting him in the way that I had been doing, which changed the rules on him. He joined a baseball team and struggled, he tried tumbling and struggled. He was nervous about starting 1st grade and being gone all day long. So many things that would make me nervous and anxious in themselves all piled on top of a six year old boy who doesn't have the skills to ask for help and can't deal with them himself.
.

Oh, Kate, I am sorry you are struggling with this and that your son is too. It's so hard not to blame ourselves for things that we do thinking it will help when they only cause more trouble. I hope you are not feeling this way anymore. My mantra is "I have to make the best decision I can at the time it's needed with the information I have at the time." That is all we can do. It's sometimes a difficult and scary road but all of us here know that you are doing everything you can. What I am realizing is that the people who don't get that have never been there and have no idea what htey are talking about.
 












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