Swim with Dolphins after seeing Blackfish...

[surfer_ed]

Doing a suprprsie 10th Birthday Cruise for my Daughter in the fall on Disney Fantasy.

We were planning on Swimming with the Dolphins as the highlight of the trip.

Watched Blackfish on the weekend and now I am having second thoughts on this type of activity. I know it is heavily slanted against Seaworld and other parks in particular but I am finding that I have a bit of an ethical question in my mind about captive animals for shows.

I should point out in my younger days I actually trained as a Marine Biologist and think I know a little about conservation, animals in captivity, the need to educate etc but I am really torn.

Anyone else having second thoughts on this?

 

[sambycat]

Of course everyone will have their own opinions and I'm the first to point out we still got to animal kingdom (a zoo), but we are avoiding all these types activities. We saw blackfish, I believe it contains many salient points, I'm also vegan. I'm finding some of the Alaskan excursions challenging for me - love dogs, not sure I'm a fan of dog sledding. Don't want to catch and kill things (fishing, crabbing). I think there is a Bahamian excursion as well where it's a turtle farm - pet the turtles, eat turtle soup. Some folks won't be bothered and that is their right, I encourage you to listen to your inner pics and follow your heart in doing what is right for you

 

[mylittlebirdie]

If Blackfish upset you, you may not want to do any research on Taji Cove where there is currently a full out dolphin capture/slaughter taking place. Entire pods, adults, juveniles and babies killed or sold into slavery at these sort of establishments.

I personally would never support this sort of torture.

 

[Racer X]

It is hard - and we all try to do the right thing and at the same time be hypocritical...

IMHO any animal kept in captivity and rewarded with food for your enjoyment could be classified as in-humane.

We did a "natural" dolphin swim in the Keys a while ago where the dolphins are free roaming and can swim away to the open ocean if they wish. They will interact with you if they wish. They are not forced to take you on a ride or interact.

I don't know if there is any such program in the bahamas but you can look up the dolphin encounters in the Keys if you want a real natural interaction...

You could take some of your money for this excursion and make a donation in your daughters name to a worthy fund for the dolphins or endagered species.

 

[bumbershoot]

If you start reading Carl Hiaasen's wild crazy silly books you won't want to swim with dolphins anyway...wild animals and unpredictable. And at least one book (not for non-adults!) made me think of them totally different altogether.


sambycat, if you've ever known a sled dog, you would know they WANT to pull. I know that sometimes mushers aren't all that nice about things, but the dogs really do have a strong urge for pulling a sled (or anything). Just to answer that part of your concerns. I grew up with malamutes...strong strong strong instincts there.

 

[Carrie in AZ]

You are not alone. I feel VERY conflicted. DH and our youngest DD swam with the dolphins that live at The Kahala resort on Oahu as part of Dolphin Quest. We went ahead with it even though I felt conflicted. What I do know is that we are now done with these types of activities and I am not sure we will be visiting Sea World anytime soon.

I also know I am conflicted about eating meat every day. I love animals so much but how can that be when I am eating them daily? We have leather furniture and wear leather shoes. See, hard to sort it all out within myself.

 

[ocspartan]

I too originally thought how fun it would be to book a dolphin experience for the kids, but after watching films like blackfish and The Cove, it does make you think twice.

I am not completely against Zoos in a sense b/c of the many research and educational oppurtunites, but specifically to these the part I found disturbing is that it appears that the animals life spans are cut short b/c of the captivity and the bent fins, I had noticed that on our families last visit to sea world but the description of how rare that is in the wild made me think the most...

For our family personally we've decided not to do any dolphin based excursions on our upcoming cruise

 

[muse7mom]

Life is often a push and pull. I will give this some thought too.

 

[TDC Nala]

Everyone will have to make their own decisions, but I am not getting in water to schmooze with a sea creature that is bigger than me. Felt that way before the Blackfish thing even happened.

As for whether anyone else might want to do it, makes no difference to me.

 

[vakamalua]

A number of years ago, we did both the dolphin and sea lion experiences. They were educational and fun BUT we've reconsidered and no longer ethically support such activities. There are natural places that one can observe wildlife but it shouldn't be at dolphin swims, water parks or even WDW's Animal Kingdom.

 

[cigarboo]

It seems everything that has to do with tourists and animals or sport and animals have a very dark side, to the detriment of the animals. Blackfish and the cove are just some instances where very inhumane treatment of animals occur because of money. Sled dogs are often bred for fastest dogs, while slow ones are culled. Tourists like puppies, so there always have to be a litter or 2 around. Only you can decide how much you want to know and what you feel good about.

I am conflicted by animals in captivity, but i think small marine parks in the Caribbean can be suspect. At least at seaworld(these days) the dolphins and whales are mainly born in captivity, are in visibly clean tanks and seaworld has the funds to provide vet care and nutrition. Still sad. For me, if I HAD to swim w/ dolphins, I would go with one of the Eco friendly(key west) or discovery cove at seaworld.

In the past, I've supported well kept zoos, but hearing the recent stories of Marius, the young giraffe in the Copenhagen zoo who was killed and fed to the lions bother me. Suddenly, I have a new view about conservation/breeding programs that zoos seem to advertise. Baby animals sell tickets, but what really happens to them after they are not baby sized?

Being trained as a marine biologist, you probably have more insight into what these animals go through and where they came from. It's a hard decision, but if you will feel guilty going, you might want to consider another excursion.

 

[Ravenne]

sambycat, if you've ever known a sled dog, you would know they WANT to pull. I know that sometimes mushers aren't all that nice about things, but the dogs really do have a strong urge for pulling a sled (or anything). Just to answer that part of your concerns. I grew up with malamutes...strong strong strong instincts there.

This exactly. That's what they were bred to do...to pull. To not give them that job would be like not allowing a fish to swim. Real dog mushers take fantastic care of their dogs because their lives out in the frozen tundra depends on their dogs. Huskies are so ridiculously smart if not stubborn that they will often times refuse to pull for mushers that they are not familiar with. Mushers often do dog sledding tours to help subsidize their dog care costs, which are astronomical considering how many dogs they have to care for. Some have upwards of 70 dogs they care for so they can rotate as to not over exert them. Dog sledding itself isn't a bad thing but the bad owners are the rotten apples that gives it a bad name, just like any other industry.

I don't believe that all captive animals equal inhumane treatment. Often times animals get injured in the wild and are no longer able to thrive in the wild, but can live out its life in captivity. Obviously, not all captive animals fall in this category. If that is important to you, then it's important to do your research with reputable and trusted organizations and decide for yourself. I do have to say, after seeing Blackfish, I pay attention to Orcas' dorsal fins now.

 

[MrsC74]

A few years ago we took our kids to Discovery Cove in Orlando to swim with the dolphins. The kids loved it, but as I watched the encounter It struck me that it was a bit of a cruel life for the dolphins to spend all day tugging people around a pool. I was already turned off of the idea before I watched The Cove and Blackfish but they definitely sealed it for me.

I wouldn't consider doing the Discover Cove experience again, and the pool those Dolphins swim in is much much larger than what I saw the dolphins in at the Western Caribbean ports we stopped. If you have reservations at all, my advice would be to not do it. It was heartbreaking to see the dolphins in those tiny pools.

 

[jetskigrl]

We did the Dolphin Swim at Blue Lagoon (Nassau) in 2011 and really enjoyed it. But if I had to make that decision again now, I don't think I would do it.

I watched Blackfish shortly after the trainers came out saying that it was not completely truthful. So I was not going to let myself be swayed one way or the other, I tried to remain completely neutral. But after watching it, I'm not going to buy into it 100%, but I do see the whole process of training animals for our entertainment in a different light.

That being said, the dolphins at the Blue Lagoon had a very large area to swim in and we were told that if they do not want to interact with the guests then they are never forced to. In fact, our session started a little late because one of the dolphins did not want to join and we waited a few minutes for another one to come over.

But yeah, I don't think I would do it again. We will be whale watching in Alaska and I'm looking forward to seeing as many animals as possible in their natural habitat (from a distance)

 

[OregonDisneyDreamer]

I agree with what has already been said here. It's a decision you'll have to make for yourself, but personally after watching The Cove and Blackfish I will not support those type of marine animal entertainment venues. I was a HUGE Sea World fan and it breaks my heart now knowing the truth about those parks. I had always thought I'd share my love of the place with my daughter. That said, there are hundreds of other fun things to do in life other than swim with dolphins or go to SeaWorld.

What if you planned a special spa day for your daughter on the cruise? Or let her pick any excursion she wants from the list?

 

[disneyfan888]

Everyone will have a different perspective on this, I for one have had very strong feeling about these types of activities before Blackfish aired and I do not support any swim with the dolphins programs because they all support the cause of using animals for exploitation. I did it many years ago before I knew the truth about these activities and I vowed never to do them again. They are beautiful animals, but its because I love them and want whats best for them that I choose not to participate.
For those who are thinking of just watching and not actually swimming with them, its the same thing, your money is still going to the facility that will continue to use their earnings to keep the "swim with the dolphin" programs up and running. In the end you chose what you think is right, but if you are already having doubts that means something is telling you that their is something wrong with what you are thinking of doing.

The cruise is to relax, not to be stressed. I hope you have a lovely time!!

 

[luvavacation]

I realize that I am going to be the voice of dissent here, and probably hated and vilified, but I would like to give you a somewhat different opinion. I firmly believe that hearing all sides of an issue is a benefit, and whatever decision one makes when given complete knowledge of an issue is the right decision. An informed decision is what you will be most comfortable with and what will be right for you and your family.

That said, I have swum with dolphins at Discovery Cove, I love Sea World, and I will go there and give them my money. I hope people go to these places and look at the animals up close and see that even the sharks, as much as I fear them, can have a beauty and a purpose. The big lumbering rhino, not so pretty in most eyes, has a right to exist and flourish. Just seeing pictures in books isn't really the same as seeing the animal up close and admiring it, even if it is a habitat made by man. A well run zoo is a wonderful first step in learning to appreciate the value of animals we don't see everyday.

I have always loved dolphins, sea lions, stingrays, etc., and if it weren't for my fear of the ocean, I would have liked to be a marine biologist. When I first touched a dolphin or stingray, I was mesmerized by the feel, the movement, the interaction. I was never going to be the type of person that would feel killing any animal was a great sport, but I do believe that exposure to all animals can help people appreciate them more. Perhaps swimming with a dolphin, feeling its strength and power, looking into its eyes, will help someone realize that the killing of dolphins for sport is awful, and that person might be successful in changing the minds of others. One never knows, but I do not believe exposure to animals will in any way turn someone into an animal hater.

That said, I will not swim with dolphins anywhere except Discovery Cove. While I do believe the wild is the true habit, I do also believe Sea World is the next best thing for learning about these creatures. What I have seen of the conditions of dolphins in habitats in Mexico or the Bahamas does not lead me to believe that the dolphins' well-being is of any importance to the owners of those places. I do not want to give my money to those places when I just feel sorry for the animals there.

As I said, others will disagree, but we all have to come to a conclusion that our conscience leads us to. I firmly believe no issue is exactly black and white, but knowing all sides will help you form an opinion that you will cause you no doubts. An informed opinion is the right opinion, even if it is different from someone else's.

And please have a fantastic cruise! If you are lucky, you just might see some wildlife from the decks - now that's some real excitement!

 

[jenf22]

I realize that I am going to be the voice of dissent here, and probably hated and vilified, but I would like to give you a somewhat different opinion. I firmly believe that hearing all sides of an issue is a benefit, and whatever decision one makes when given complete knowledge of an issue is the right decision. An informed decision is what you will be most comfortable with and what will be right for you and your family.

That said, I have swum with dolphins at Discovery Cove, I love Sea World, and I will go there and give them my money. I hope people go to these places and look at the animals up close and see that even the sharks, as much as I fear them, can have a beauty and a purpose. The big lumbering rhino, not so pretty in most eyes, has a right to exist and flourish. Just seeing pictures in books isn't really the same as seeing the animal up close and admiring it, even if it is a habitat made by man. A well run zoo is a wonderful first step in learning to appreciate the value of animals we don't see everyday.

I have always loved dolphins, sea lions, stingrays, etc., and if it weren't for my fear of the ocean, I would have liked to be a marine biologist. When I first touched a dolphin or stingray, I was mesmerized by the feel, the movement, the interaction. I was never going to be the type of person that would feel killing any animal was a great sport, but I do believe that exposure to all animals can help people appreciate them more. Perhaps swimming with a dolphin, feeling its strength and power, looking into its eyes, will help someone realize that the killing of dolphins for sport is awful, and that person might be successful in changing the minds of others. One never knows, but I do not believe exposure to animals will in any way turn someone into an animal hater.

That said, I will not swim with dolphins anywhere except Discovery Cove. While I do believe the wild is the true habit, I do also believe Sea World is the next best thing for learning about these creatures. What I have seen of the conditions of dolphins in habitats in Mexico or the Bahamas does not lead me to believe that the dolphins' well-being is of any importance to the owners of those places. I do not want to give my money to those places when I just feel sorry for the animals there.

As I said, others will disagree, but we all have to come to a conclusion that our conscience leads us to. I firmly believe no issue is exactly black and white, but knowing all sides will help you form an opinion that you will cause you no doubts. An informed opinion is the right opinion, even if it is different from someone else's.

And please have a fantastic cruise! If you are lucky, you just might see some wildlife from the decks - now that's some real excitement!

I pretty much agree too. I've been following this thread and then yesterday my 6-year old son comes home with a little paper he wrote about how dolphins are his favorite animal. Would he have that love had he never met one or seen a real one? Probably not. We've done the dolphin interaction 3 times at Dolphin Quest at the Hilton Waikoloa Village (awesome place!) and they spend over half the time doing dolphin education. Very little time is spent in the water. I've read not-so-great things about the programs in Mexico and the Bahamas.

While I agree life at Sea World for orcas is not the best for them, I wonder if those specific creatures are making a sacrifice for the good of their species. I know it's not fair to them since they were not given a choice, but how many children grow to love orcas because of Sea World? I know I did. I was obsessed with seeing orcas in the wild because of my time at Sea World as a child (I did eventually see them on a trip to Victoria and then again from the Wonder in Alaska!)

We try to teach our son about conservation and we visit the Denver Zoo a lot. We read all the signs and he loves seeing where the animal lives naturally. He makes comments about how they don't live many places any more. We try to use the zoo to teach him about loving animals and helping them not become extinct. I know most people don't use it that way (obvious by the number of rug-rats who chase the geese at the zoo ), and that makes me sad.

It's a tricky problem with no easy answer (in my opinion anyway). Best of luck making your decision. Have a great cruise either way!

Edit - With respect to the sled dogs... We did a dog cart ride in Alaska and those dogs were super excited to pull the cart. There is a guy at work who does carting trials with his Rottweilers. They absolutely love it. Some dogs need a job to be happy. We have an Aussie and are constantly trying to come up with "jobs" for him to do so he's not bored. I'm sure there are good and bad sled dog operations, but I firmly believe a lot of dogs owners love these dogs like they are their children.

 

[pillow]

I'm not sure I can add anything that hasn't already been said here. But I think that if you have to think too hard about it and feel somewhat uncomfortable, then its a sign that you shouldn't be doing it. We don't do the dolphin swims for the reasons that folks have already pointed out. I have explained to my kids my reasoning, and they are in agreement. There are so many other wonderful things to do on your cruise! Its certainly not a necessity.

Jodie

 

[ColoradoDisneyFreaks]

I pretty much agree too. I've been following this thread and then yesterday my 6-year old son comes home with a little paper he wrote about how dolphins are his favorite animal. Would he have that love had he never met one or seen a real one? Probably not. We've done the dolphin interaction 3 times at Dolphin Quest at the Hilton Waikoloa Village (awesome place!) and they spend over half the time doing dolphin education. Very little time is spent in the water. I've read not-so-great things about the programs in Mexico and the Bahamas.

While I agree life at Sea World for orcas is not the best for them, I wonder if those specific creatures are making a sacrifice for the good of their species. I know it's not fair to them since they were not given a choice, but how many children grow to love orcas because of Sea World? I know I did. I was obsessed with seeing orcas in the wild because of my time at Sea World as a child (I did eventually see them on a trip to Victoria and then again from the Wonder in Alaska!)

We try to teach our son about conservation and we visit the Denver Zoo a lot. We read all the signs and he loves seeing where the animal lives naturally. He makes comments about how they don't live many places any more. We try to use the zoo to teach him about loving animals and helping them not become extinct. I know most people don't use it that way (obvious by the number of rug-rats who chase the geese at the zoo ), and that makes me sad.

It's a tricky problem with no easy answer (in my opinion anyway). Best of luck making your decision. Have a great cruise either way!

Edit - With respect to the sled dogs... We did a dog cart ride in Alaska and those dogs were super excited to pull the cart. There is a guy at work who does carting trials with his Rottweilers. They absolutely love it. Some dogs need a job to be happy. We have an Aussie and are constantly trying to come up with "jobs" for him to do so he's not bored. I'm sure there are good and bad sled dog operations, but I firmly believe a lot of dogs owners love these dogs like they are their children.

I agree with everything you've said.

Just as an aside, have you taken your DS to the Cheyenne Mountain Zoo in Colorado Springs? He'll get to feed the giraffes! They have one of the best giraffe breeding programs, something about the altitude is optimal for them, and some awesome habitats on the mountain.