SWAT raid on Missouri Family

It was in the warrant affidavit.
Again, I read the warrant affidavit. You should, also. Getting all of your info from youtube won't give you the full picture.

Two witnesses identified him as a drug dealer. He had previously been convicted of being a drug dealer. Drug paraphernalia and residue had been found in his trash.

I don't get all my facts from youtube. Where did you pick that up? Heck, I looked all over the internet looking for stuff, including the state of MO court system and provided links so why are you assuming that I'm only going off of you tube?


Thank you for the link. Made for some interesting reading. Why weren't any of these drug offenses listed in the link I showed? The ones that showed all his priors? Maybe they happened before they started putting stuff on the internet. The oldest one was from 2003 I believe.

I don't hold much stock in confidential informants either and apparently neither should the Columbus police department considering they were wrong on this case.
 
I still think that there are countless better ways to have handled this situation.

There are a ton of things they should have done differently, but I don't think the swat team, the chief of police and some other people will ever think that. Apparently it is fine and dandy to do these commando raids for penny anny crap like this.

My goodness, you would have thought they found Bin Laden with the way they stormed that house.
 
BTW-who recorded the video?

There are a ton of things they should have done differently, but I don't think the swat team, the chief of police and some other people will ever think that. Apparently it is fine and dandy to do these commando raids for penny anny crap like this.

My goodness, you would have thought they found Bin Laden with the way they stormed that house.



:thumbsup2
 
The reason SWAT storms a house the way they do is to catch the person by surprise and not give them time to flee. If they knock, many times they run out a door or hide. This way also prevents giving them time to get a weapon that may be inside. It is also MUCH safer for the SWAT officers and others in the house.

And yes, a big time drug dealer would throw stuff in their trash. You'd be surprised what all is found. Most often there is surveillance done all day on a house when there is a trash pull.

And another thing, what all occured PRIOR to this happening, will NOT be discussed by police right now as it's going to trial. Why would they put out there all the evidence they had on the guy so that his attorney can get a valid defense immediately? As it heads to trial, I'm sure we will hear more.
 

...I will say, however, that I don't care if the guy was Pablo Escobar, without full on surveilance and investigation that found out there were guns galore in the house and people who were actively ready to use them at any moment, the SWAT team should not have been sent in. I still think that there are countless better ways to have handled this situation.

Ways that ensured the safety of the police officers while also assuring that any evidence wouldn't be destroyed? These types of raid tactics are used for a reason - because they are very effective.

It is very sad that the dog(s) died. Maybe we should blame the drug manufacturing/dealing owner instead of the police officers that felt compelled to shoot the dog(s) for their own safety and the safety of their fellow officers. :confused3
 
Again - watch the video.

You're going to hear a normal barking dog - whom stops barking be shot.

You're going to hear an immediate shot, upon entering the house (the corgi)

I don't give a **** if The Drug Lord of the Universe was in there. There was also a child, a woman and 2 family pets.

And let's not forget they found..... a bowl with residue. Superb police work! **applause** His $300 fine didn't even pay for the SWAT team that night. :laughing:
 
Again - watch the video.

You're going to hear a normal barking dog - whom stops barking be shot.

You're going to hear an immediate shot, upon entering the house (the corgi)

I don't give a **** if The Drug Lord of the Universe was in there. There was also a child, a woman and 2 family pets.
Ever do a raid when you are afraid for your life walking through tht door? Try putting yourself in their shoes. The outcome was tragic, not criminal.[
 
The reason SWAT storms a house the way they do is to catch the person by surprise and not give them time to flee. If they knock, many times they run out a door or hide. This way also prevents giving them time to get a weapon that may be inside. It is also MUCH safer for the SWAT officers and others in the house.
But they did knock. According to the police report they knocked 3 times. So, their report actually contradicts what you are saying.

And yes, a big time drug dealer would throw stuff in their trash. You'd be surprised what all is found. Most often there is surveillance done all day on a house when there is a trash pull.

And another thing, what all occured PRIOR to this happening, will NOT be discussed by police right now as it's going to trial. Why would they put out there all the evidence they had on the guy so that his attorney can get a valid defense immediately? As it heads to trial, I'm sure we will hear more.
Yeah, we wouldn't want them to get a valid defense or anything. :rotfl:
Again - watch the video.

You're going to hear a normal barking dog - whom stops barking be shot.

You're going to hear an immediate shot, upon entering the house (the corgi)

I don't give a **** if The Drug Lord of the Universe was in there. There was also a child, a woman and 2 family pets.

And let's not forget they found..... a bowl with residue. Superb police work! **applause** His $300 fine didn't even pay for the SWAT team that night. :laughing:
I know, right? :headache:

They are in the hole with this one. No drugs off the streets, because they found none. Hundreds of dollars spent on the raid. One pet killed and one injured. One child traumatized, probably for life.
 
You can say whatever you want about why swat raids happen, in this case (and many many others) it is extremely shoddy police work.


There are a ton of things they should have done differently, but I don't think the swat team, the chief of police and some other people will ever think that. Apparently it is fine and dandy to do these commando raids for penny anny crap like this.

My goodness, you would have thought they found Bin Laden with the way they stormed that house.

That is 100% correct imo!
 
From a regular commenter on The Agitator

Report From the Meeting of Columbia’s Police Civilian Review Board
Friday, May 14th, 2010

Regular commenter “CTD” writes:

Last night I attended the monthly meeting of the Columbia Police Civilian Review Board. (The board itself is in its infancy, just having started up in January. The cops fought it’s formation every step of the way, of course.) The meeting had to be moved to the city council chamber because so many people showed up. Even then, it was standing room only. Not a single citizen who spoke attempted to defend the police. Not one. Several told similar stories about being victimized in raids, or having dogs killed. The local Libertarian Party chapter president spoke and quoted from Overkill, FYI. They quality of the citizen comments was surprisingly good, overall. Nobody made any point you haven’t a million times, but it was heartening to see so many agreeing that these paramilitary tactics are far too dangerous to be used for non-violent suspects. Thanks so much for getting the word out on this, we really appreciate it.

This was really my fondest hope for Overkill—that when one of these raids happens, citizens and policymakers would consult the paper. The idea for the SWAT transparency bill in Maryland came from Overkill. Maybe this episode will spur Missouri legislators to pass something similar.
 
A letter to Reason from a reader who did not want to be named due to military status as well as some notes from 2007->

More Militarized Than the Military

Radley Balko | May 14, 2010

A reader who asks his name not be used writes about the drug raid video from Columbia, Missouri:

I am a US Army officer, currently serving in Afghanistan. My first thought on reading this story is this: Most American police SWAT teams probably have fewer restrictions on conducting forced entry raids than do US forces in Afghanistan.

For our troops over here to conduct any kind of forced entry, day or night, they have to meet one of two conditions: have a bad guy (or guys) inside actively shooting at them; or obtain permission from a 2-star general, who must be convinced by available intelligence (evidence) that the person or persons they're after is present at the location, and that it's too dangerous to try less coercive methods. The general can be pretty tough to convince, too. (I'm a staff liason, and one of my jobs is to present these briefings to obtain the required permission.)

Generally, our troops, including the special ops guys, use what we call "cordon and knock": they set up a perimeter around the target location to keep people from moving in or out,and then announce their presence and give the target an opportunity to surrender. In the majority of cases, even if the perimeter is established at night, the call out or knock on the gate doesn't happen until after the sun comes up.

Oh, and all of the bad guys we're going after are closely tied to killing and maiming people.

What might be amazing to American cops is that the vast majority of our targets surrender when called out.

I don't have a clear picture of the resources available to most police departments, but even so, I don't see any reason why they can't use similar methods.

I've heard similar accounts from other members of the military. A couple of years ago after I'd given a speech on this issue, a retired military officer and former instructor at West Point specifically asked me to stop using the term "militarization," because he thought comparing SWAT teams to the military reflected poorly on the military.

Back in 2007 I wrote a bit more on this:

There's a telling scene related to all of this in Evan Wright's terrific book Generation Kill. Wright was embedded with an elite U.S. Marine unit in Iraq. Throughout his time with the unit, Wright documents the extraordinary precautions the unit takes to avoid unnecessary civilian casualties, and the real heartbreak the soldiers feel when they do inadvertently kill a civilian. About 3/4 through the book, Wright explains how the full-time Marines were getting increasingly irritated with a reserve unit traveling with them. The reserve unit was mostly made up people who in their civilians lives were law enforcement, "from LAPD cops to DEA agents to air marshalls," and were acting like idiot renegades. Wright quotes a gunnery sargeant who traveled with the reserve unit:

"Some of the cops in Delta started doing this cowboy stuff. They put cattle horns on their Humvees. They'd roll into these hamlets, doing shows of force—kicking down doors, doing sweeps—just for the **** of it. There was this little clique of them. Their ringleader was this beat cop...He's like five feet tall, talks like Joe Friday and everybody calls him 'Napoleon.'"

The unit ends up firebombing a village of Iraqis who'd been helping the Marines with intelligence about insurgents and Iraqi troops. Yes, it's just an anecdote. But it's a telling one. It suggests that to say some of our domestic police units are getting increasing militaristic probably does a disservice to the military.
 
One of the issues with the officer reports is that there seem to be various stories as to how many pit bulls there were (at least one officer claims that there were 2 pit bulls at the door), how many shots were fired, and how much of a threat the dog was. One of them mentions that when he got to the kitchen, the dog was seriously injured and then he shot it.
This is not exactly true.

  • Only one officers report mentioned two pit bulls. This is apparently a mistake as he simply stated that two pit bulls were in the doorway when it was one pit bull and one non-pit bull. I chalk this up to impercise writing.
  • There were seven shots fired. One at the door which missed the pit bull and struck the other dog (which was obviously also in the door). One in the kitchen when an officer was confronted by the pit bull. This bullet struck the animal, but did not limit it's mobility. Another officer fired a two-round burst from his MP5 while the OIC fired two rounds from his handgun as the now wounded and angry pit bull advanced on the officer. All seven shell casings were recoved by crime scene personnel in the locations described in the officers' reports.
  • Several officers reported that the dog was aggressive in the doorway. Multiple officer reports state that the lead officer in the stack fired 'at it'. No one reported the animal injured at that point. It was merely reported that it left the doorway, so they entered.

    The first officer to enter the kitchen reported encountering the dog postured in an aggressive manner and that he felt that the dog was about to attack him. He fired one round and reported that it did hit the dog, which yelped and ran to a different part of the kitchen. That officer did not persue and followed his prescribed route to the garage.

    Another officer and the OIC entered the kitchen from the other side. The officer with the MP5 reported that the dog was wounded. He further stated that it was barking and advancing on him. He fired at the dog with the intention of preventing the dog from biting him. The OIC stated that the dog was 'still in a mobile state and acting aggressive' and that it was 'moving towards officers rather than retreating away'. He fired at approximately the same time as the other officer.

    The perceived threat of the pit bull is consistent throughout the officers' reports.
... As for the trash pull, would a big time drug dealer really not know better than to throw out his stuff in the regular garbage? I would think they would burn it in a fireplace or go throw it in the woods or something that couldn't be easily traced back.
Unlike what we see on TV, criminals are often dumb.

Also, if you burn your doobage in the fireplace, the police actually come sooner.

Also, being that it was in the garbage, it can be argued that what was found does not belong to the defendant as the police had not performed surveilance to deem if it was actually his garbage. Also, there are no available records for the alleged trash pull so we don't know what was or wasn't found in it.
According to the affidavit, mail addressed to the family was also found in the trash.
The duffel bags, I have two sitting in my shed right now. It's luggage and so far there is no other mention about them except for one report.
If the DA were going for higher charges, it would make sense to test those duffles to see if they were used to transport ganja. Given that he didn't present those charges, I doubt that it happened.


How would someone who would normally have mounds of pot around the house only end up with "personal consumption" amounts?
That's really the problem with waiting several days to raid the house. He may have gotten a huge shipment of the stuff three weeks ago and sold completely out day before yesterday. If you don't raid the house until today, you miss it.

Of course, the informants' information didn't indicate when shipments were made, so making the raid on any specific day would be just as likely to catch the guy with a huge amount or none at all. Which is the argument that the police should be using as to why waiting to raid wasn't a big deal.
I will say, however, that I don't care if the guy was Pablo Escobar, without full on surveilance and investigation that found out there were guns galore in the house and people who were actively ready to use them at any moment, the SWAT team should not have been sent in. I still think that there are countless better ways to have handled this situation.
Obviously, you don't believe that SWAT teams should exist. However, I think that this instance, with the evidence that the police had going in, was the perfect example of proper use of a SWAT team.
I don't hold much stock in confidential informants either and apparently neither should the Columbus police department considering they were wrong on this case.
According to the affidavit, the informants had provided good info in previous cases. Also, it should be noted that there is no evidence to believe that their information was bad this time, either. Just because there were wasn't large amounts of drugs found when the search was made does not mean that the individual doesn't often sell drugs. It only means that he didn'e have drugs to sell at that moment.

There are a ton of things they should have done differently, but I don't think the swat team, the chief of police and some other people will ever think that. Apparently it is fine and dandy to do these commando raids for penny anny crap like this.

My goodness, you would have thought they found Bin Laden with the way they stormed that house.
That's an easy position to take on Monday morning. However, when you are the police officer that has to knock on the drug dealer's door, I suspect that you think differently.

And let's not forget they found..... a bowl with residue. Superb police work! **applause** His $300 fine didn't even pay for the SWAT team that night. :laughing:
You realize that the SWAT team gets paid whether they are knocking down doors or writing parking tickets, right? Beyond the cost of the seven rounds fired (about five dollars retail, they pay less) and the opportunity cost of tickets not written, their was no cost related to this arrest.

You can say whatever you want about why swat raids happen, in this case (and many many others) it is extremely shoddy police work.
I disagree.

The warrant was issued based on appropriate police work with seemingly good evidence.

Given the evidence at hand, their was no good reason to rush the raid.

It was appropriate for the raid to be managed by the SWAT team. The individual in question had a list of priors including resisting arrest and drug sales and distribution. There was no telling how ugly that raid would become. It's better to be prepared than dead.

I can find no fault whatsoever with how the raid was managed. The team appears to have been well practiced and disciplined.

It's sad that the dog had to die, but that doesn't mean that the police were wrong.
 
Obviously, you don't believe that SWAT teams should exist.

That is quite untrue. I believe that there are plenty of instances where a SWAT team should be used. These would include hostage situations and bomb scares, and other extremely volatile situations. This is not one of those cases.
 
I did watch the video this weekend several times. I do not see how what SWAT did was what everyone on here is stating. Noone knows what the dog was doing, you never seen the pitbull in the other room. So all those jumping the caged animal bandwagon, need to jump back off.

The only thing I saw is the police were remaining calm, the guy was acting a lunatic and screaming about his dog...no concern about his child and how hearing his dad rant and rave and carry on is JUST as upsetting to the child. Sorry, in that same situation most parents would try to remain calm and calm their child.....NOT carry on the way he was...he had no concern other than to be a jerk.

And sorry, when you CHOOSE to break the law (even just using drugs is breaking the law), you put yourself and your family at a risk at what the repercussions may be. Thats part of life--we make a choice, we deal with the outcome...............but I can see how this is going on this thread.......make a bad choice and blame the cops for the outcome. :rolleyes1

I mean seriously.....if you make a choice to run that yellow light as its turning red....and someone t-bones you and someone is killed.....are you going to blame the other person when you shouldve not been breaking the law to begin with?

People just need to own up to what they do and deal with the outcome. Yes, you may "only be using drugs"..but that leaves the door open to being suspected of other things.......and don't be surprised if SWAT or FBI or whomever shadows your doorframe! If you don't want that to happen....DON'T BREAK THE LAW!
 
That is quite untrue. I believe that there are plenty of instances where a SWAT team should be used. These would include hostage situations and bomb scares, and other extremely volatile situations. This is not one of those cases.
It's easy to look back on history and tell the world how things should be. Unfortunately, teh police did not have this luxury. With the information they had, they were completely right to prepare for the wosrt case scenario.

It should also be noted that if two uniformed non-SWAT officers had arrived to handle this warrant, the home owner still wouldn't have answered the door, the officers would still have had to enter, the dog still would have acted aggressively, and the officers still would have had to shoot him.
 
I did watch the video this weekend several times. I do not see how what SWAT did was what everyone on here is stating. Noone knows what the dog was doing, you never seen the pitbull in the other room. So all those jumping the caged animal bandwagon, need to jump back off.

The only thing I saw is the police were remaining calm, the guy was acting a lunatic and screaming about his dog...no concern about his child and how hearing his dad rant and rave and carry on is JUST as upsetting to the child. Sorry, in that same situation most parents would try to remain calm and calm their child.....NOT carry on the way he was...he had no concern other than to be a jerk.

Whoa Nelly. :sad2:

AFTER he found out his dog was dead? You mean then??? Because you certainly can't mean before when he immediately was on the ground, hands behind his back, correct? And considering he had no idea why in the hell they were there - you know, the MISDEMEANOR charge - , I'd be a bit upset about having my dog shot, as well.

No one knows what the dog was doing? I know what the dog was NOT doing. Growling. Dogs have a tendency to do THAT when they're aggressive. Hell, they'll even bark - and they were not doing that either, for several seconds before being shot, anyways.

Whatever. :rolleyes:
 
According to the affidavit, the informants had provided good info in previous cases. Also, it should be noted that there is no evidence to believe that their information was bad this time, either. Just because there were wasn't large amounts of drugs found when the search was made does not mean that the individual doesn't often sell drugs. It only means that he didn'e have drugs to sell at that moment.
Or it could have meant that the informants where wrong and that he never was a supplier or dealer and that the weed that was found was a personal use amount.

There was also no mention of finding other things that would more then likely be found in a dealer's home, such as a scale or large supply of baggies.

That's an easy position to take on Monday morning. However, when you are the police officer that has to knock on the drug dealer's door, I suspect that you think differently.
It is during Monday morning quarterbacking that mistakes are brought to light. Where we can see ways to improve and correct.

I understand that as a police officer they never know what they are going to find behind that door and their main objective is to get their suspect and that nobody gets hurt.
I did watch the video this weekend several times. I do not see how what SWAT did was what everyone on here is stating. Noone knows what the dog was doing, you never seen the pitbull in the other room. So all those jumping the caged animal bandwagon, need to jump back off.
I stated earlier in the thread that the pitbull was not caged.
The only thing I saw is the police were remaining calm, the guy was acting a lunatic and screaming about his dog...no concern about his child and how hearing his dad rant and rave and carry on is JUST as upsetting to the child. Sorry, in that same situation most parents would try to remain calm and calm their child.....NOT carry on the way he was...he had no concern other than to be a jerk.
We must have been watching different videos. :rotfl: I saw a man who complied with all the orders the police gave him. He remained on the floor and he was handcuffed without a struggle or showing any type struggle.

He was visibly upset at hearing the news that his dog was shot. What loving pet owner would not be upset at hearing that news? It was a normal reaction. He did not yell, or throw a fit, or as you put it, "acting lunatic and screaming".:rolleyes:

My responses are in red.
 
The only thing I saw is the police were remaining calm, the guy was acting a lunatic and screaming about his dog...no concern about his child and how hearing his dad rant and rave and carry on is JUST as upsetting to the child. Sorry, in that same situation most parents would try to remain calm and calm their child.....NOT carry on the way he was...he had no concern other than to be a jerk.


I would have been screaming LOUDER than that guy if it were my dog!! "Lunatic" would be too soft a word to describe me in that situation.
 
It's really a shame that the guy chose a life of crime and brought this all upon his family. He is to blame.
 
It's easy to look back on history and tell the world how things should be. Unfortunately, teh police did not have this luxury. With the information they had, they were completely right to prepare for the wosrt case scenario.

It should also be noted that if two uniformed non-SWAT officers had arrived to handle this warrant, the home owner still wouldn't have answered the door, the officers would still have had to enter, the dog still would have acted aggressively, and the officers still would have had to shoot him.

The homeowner wasn't resisting arrest in this video. How do you know he wouldn't have answered the door? And as I said earlier, they could have served said warrant as he was getting ready to go to work and walked out his door to the car, or during a traffic stop, without it being SWAT.

As for the life of crime bit- this crime is the same as a speeding ticket. Would you consider someone who gets pulled over for speeding as being a criminal? Hardly.
 


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