SURVEY: Do you know you could swap reservations to any resort with another DVC member

[TenThousandVolts]

We have a very basic marketing problem... and as a director of marketing in one of the most successful companies on the planet... I feel that I have enough experience to comment on effective marketing programs

Let's assume that you own a butcher shop... with great products... and the sign above your store says "Dead Animals For Sale". You might wonder why your business is suffering... despite the fact that you have high quality meats, great personal butcher skills, and an advertising program (sign) that accurately descibes your business. I would suggest that bringing in a marketing consultant to analyze your biz issues might be a good investment... and people who would other walk right past your store might actually stand in line to give you their biz.

/Jim

SAT question:
Trade is to Home Resort Swap
as
dead animal is to steak

hmmmm- that sounds like a stretch. We will only know for sure if they make the changes requested. If there is enough demand it will happen eventually. If the demand is there someone will setup a device by which the need can be filled. My arguement is if the demand or need existed now- people would be utilizing the current system. It is not that hard to bump a thread or check the board every other day or scroll through 2 pages. As it is now the board does not move all that fast really.

Sorry I am being such a pest- but hey- I keep bumping your thread- giving this more exposure.

 

[FLYNZ4]

SAT question:
Trade is to Home Resort Swap
as
dead animal is to steak

And the question is (in a proper Jeopardy format):

What are two ineffective marketing strategies? ​

/Jim

 

[TenThousandVolts]

And the question is (in a proper Jeopardy format):

What are two ineffective marketing strategies? ​

/Jim

Here is a real question - not trying to be funny- and I am really asking this because you are a marketing professional- Can effective marketing actually create long-term success for a product that has no demand?

 

[Paging Tom Morrow]

I find it really frustrating that non-DVC owners are being given an advantage of trading into desired DVC reservations. I can understand the desire to want to minimize "speculative renting", but if only in-kind trades are permitted, then I don't see how it would affect such renting. I also am of the opinion that the DIS' 30-day rule is has nothing but a minute impact on speculative renting and that those renters simply find other avenues where to rent.

I think it's truly a shame that person a could be holding a ressie for a XBR at DVC1 and want the same at DVC2. Meanwhile someone else could have at DVC2 and want at DVC1. They are both waitlisted through DVC, but since both are going to go anyways, neither waitlist comes through. Neither family gets the vacation they truly want.

If only they owned at Mariott.....

 

[Paging Tom Morrow]

Can effective marketing actually create long-term success for a product that has no demand?

Chia-Pet anyone???

 

[TenThousandVolts]

Chia-Pet anyone???

That is exactly the product I was thinking of- which is why I included the qualifier "long-term".

 

[FLYNZ4]

Here is a real question - not trying to be funny- and I am really asking this because you are a marketing professional- Can effective marketing actually create long-term success for a product that has no demand?

Marketing is not important... Marketing is EVERYTHING.

Successful marketing programs create a need... and the person being influenced has no idea that they are buying as a result of marketing... they believe it was their own idea... and are acting of free will. None of us are immune... but I will be controversial and state something that none of us will want to hear -- I believe that those of us who are "into Disney"... are much more susceptible to marketing programs than most. Disney is an incredible marketing machine... and our desire to participate is a direct result, whether we realize it or not (and it is really irrelevant if we acknowledge it). Personally... I will often state that I go to Disney because I love their execution to excellence... I really do "believe" this... but as a marketing professional... I know better

Now regarding the 2nd part of your question: I believe you are trying to imply that in fact... there is no long term demand for "home resort swap". I do not believe this is necessarily true. You may be right... but I honestly do not think so. Possibly the "fear of the unknown" (IE: controlling your reservations, and all the other arguments here against the proposal) will overcome the basic desire for a home resort swap... but I somehow doubt it.

The best anecdotal evidence that makes me belive this is something that people really would want is the fact that people do in fact buy points at multiple resorts. Clearly there are several advantages to have all of your points consolidated into a single account, in a single resort... yet people continue to buy into multiple resorts. I will use my personal experience as an example:

My primary resort is also my favorite: BWV. I LOVE BCV (they are tied)... and I have thought of getting some points there to use SAB. I would also like some VWL points just to go every 2-3 years for a December 1BR getaway with DW. However... some day we may have grandkids... and a OKW GV will sure come in handy... so maybe would should add-on there as well. Maybe every 3-4 years it will be really nice to get a savanna view... so maybe we need some of those too. GCV will be a great add-on (I will probably really do this one)... because it will be great to stay there when we have invitations to Club 33. Do you see the pattern?

OTOH: If there was a vibrant and active "home swap exchange" program going on... I could state ~ 13 months in advance: Planning a 1BR BWV for F&W 2009... but looking to exchange for BCV. It would be ideal if we found someone who is going the same general time frame .. or even better the exact same timeframe (because there is much less risk)... and we could both book at the 11 month window. I would think that someone who goes to their same resort year after year... may be interested in an exchange just to try a new resort... without the hassle of day-by-day booking at 7 months... with the risk to switch nights mid-stay. Plus, if the reservation dates were identical... you could always check into your own unit if things got out of control.

This is just my humble opinion... but you asked

/Jim

 

[FLYNZ4]

I should also state that I do NOT think that a home resort swap will be useful at all resorts... and in all seasons. Some examples:

YES:
- OKW GVs almost anytime
- BWV/BCV during F/W
- BLT especially during the early years
- AKV Savanna views (but likely to wain as the resort grows)
- VWL during December
- VB/HHI during summer
- Polynesian Villas/GF Villas (if built)

NO:
- SSR just about anytime
- Non GV OKW
- Most "shoulder seasons" at all resorts (May, Sept, etc)

Maybe:
- Summer and school vacations for those wanting to "try" new WDW resorts


I also think that if WDW does indeed expand significantly beyond WDW (ex: Hawaii and others)... I think that it will put incredible pressue on all WDW properties at the 7 month mark. I base this on the fact that many people buy Hawaii expecting to travel every year (or more often)... yet often go much less than planned. Plus I think that guides will sell Hawaii et al as "points are points"... so you can always go to WDW.

/Jim

 

[Mini Sorcerer's Mom]

How can you say there is no interest for a 'swap' program when clearly the polls show there are?
Once again I will state that I tired to post an exchange and did not receive one offer. Why, most likely because those searching the rent boards either want to unload their points not gain more or are non-DVC looking to rent. How will we know there is no interest unless we try??? I will agree with Flynn, unless there is visable marketing how will anyone know it is available?

 

[ZekeKelso]

Can effective marketing actually create long-term success for a product that has no demand?

Coors Light is the third highest selling beer in the US. Never doubt the power of marketing.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

Marketing is not important... Marketing is EVERYTHING.

Successful marketing programs create a need... and the person being influenced has no idea that they are buying as a result of marketing... they believe it was their own idea... and are acting of free will. None of us are immune... but I will be controversial and state something that none of us will want to hear -- I believe that those of us who are "into Disney"... are much more susceptible to marketing programs than most. Disney is an incredible marketing machine... and our desire to participate is a direct result, whether we realize it or not (and it is really irrelevant if we acknowledge it). Personally... I will often state that I go to Disney because I love their execution to excellence... I really do "believe" this... but as a marketing professional... I know better

Now regarding the 2nd part of your question: I believe you are trying to imply that in fact... there is no long term demand for "home resort swap". I do not believe this is necessarily true. You may be right... but I honestly do not think so. Possibly the "fear of the unknown" (IE: controlling your reservations, and all the other arguments here against the proposal) will overcome the basic desire for a home resort swap... but I somehow doubt it.

The best anecdotal evidence that makes me belive this is something that people really would want is the fact that people do in fact buy points at multiple resorts. Clearly there are several advantages to have all of your points consolidated into a single account, in a single resort... yet people continue to buy into multiple resorts. I will use my personal experience as an example:

My primary resort is also my favorite: BWV. I LOVE BCV (they are tied)... and I have thought of getting some points there to use SAB. I would also like some VWL points just to go every 2-3 years for a December 1BR getaway with DW. However... some day we may have grandkids... and a OKW GV will sure come in handy... so maybe would should add-on there as well. Maybe every 3-4 years it will be really nice to get a savanna view... so maybe we need some of those too. GCV will be a great add-on (I will probably really do this one)... because it will be great to stay there when we have invitations to Club 33. Do you see the pattern?

OTOH: If there was a vibrant and active "home swap exchange" program going on... I could state ~ 13 months in advance: Planning a 1BR BWV for F&W 2009... but looking to exchange for BCV. It would be ideal if we found someone who is going the same general time frame .. or even better the exact same timeframe (because there is much less risk)... and we could both book at the 11 month window. I would think that someone who goes to their same resort year after year... may be interested in an exchange just to try a new resort... without the hassle of day-by-day booking at 7 months... with the risk to switch nights mid-stay. Plus, if the reservation dates were identical... you could always check into your own unit if things got out of control.

This is just my humble opinion... but you asked

/Jim

Thank you Jim for your professional and appreciated opinion!!!! Nothing like having an executive to give his valuable advice!! And we are getting it for free!

 

[ZekeKelso]

How can you say there is no interest for a 'swap' program when clearly the polls show there are?

Polls can be misleading. Ask a generic question like, "who's interested in getting ice cream" and you'll get tons of positive responses. Now ask, "who's interested in getting some ice cream, that's going to cost $7/cone, with a 45 minute wait, and there's no guarantee they will have any flavors you like." Different answer.

I'm guessing there is tremendous interest in the generic concept of swapping resorts. But much less interest in "using the DIS board to hook up with a stranger and negotiate a personal, non guaranteed agreement where each of you will make and control a reservation for the other."

How will we know there is no interest unless we try???

One thing to do is look at places where direct timeshare exchanges are well known. Anyone have any experience with TUG's direct exchange areas?

 

[Chuck S]

Actually, successful marketing programs do not create a need, they create the perception of a need. How many people really needed pet rocks or chia pets?

There is a difference between actual need, and the perception of a need.

 

[CarolMN]

I'm not so sure that marketing is the real issue in this situation.

To me, the bottom line is

"What's in it for the DIS?"

Will making the change result in increased (NEW) traffic (revenue) for the DIS? If so, will it be enough (or grow to be enough in a reasonable time frame) to justify the additional resources required to implement and maintain?

If yes to the above, how does it stack up with other requests for resources?

 

[TenThousandVolts]

Thanks flyer. Good point about multiple resort ownership. That certainly suggests that fact that folks want 11 month reservations at multiple resorts.

 

[FLYNZ4]

Actually, successful marketing programs do not create a need, they create the perception of a need...

...There is a difference between actual need, and the perception of a need.

Chuck,

I respectfully disagree. The end result is exactly the same... people believe they "need" something... and they act accordingly.

An analogy... Rough quote from the drill Sargent in the pre-show of Cranium Command:

"Real stress or perceived stress... your body cannot tell the difference"​

Same holds true for creating a need via marketing programs.

 

[SuzanneSLO]

If you really want to swap home resorts , you can already use the DISBoards to assist you, even if you don’t use the Rent/Trade board.

For example, we own a vacation rental in Hawaii and are not allowed to post its availability on the Rent/Trade boards because it is not a timeshare and we don’t only have a fixed week available.

Another member was asking for info about booking a CC down the street from our unit but was trying to find a way to get enough points. I PM'd him to see if he wanted to save points and stay in our vacation rental and we ended up doing a trade (my unit for a transfer of points) that worked well for both of us.

I don’t want to suggest anything that would violate Board rules, but if you are a member interested in doing a swap why not proactively contact other members posting here that seem like possible candidates? Many members include information about home resort in their signatures and from time to time there are posts such as: "We would love to visit DVC1 for Spring Break in 2010; what are our chances of booking at 7 months?" If you think a swap with that member would work, why not contact them directly by PM with the suggestion?

If you were the member receiving such an unsolicited PM, would you be uncomfortable about receiving such a contact? If such a contact a violation of DisBoard rules? If so, Moderators, please delete this post! -- Suzanne

--Suzanne

 

[RobDoc]

If you really want to swap home resorts , you can already use the DISBoards to assist you, even if you don’t use the Rent/Trade board.

For example, we own a vacation rental in Hawaii and are not allowed to post its availability on the Rent/Trade boards because it is not a timeshare and we don’t only have a fixed week available.

Another member was asking for info about booking a CC down the street from our unit but was trying to find a way to get enough points. I PM'd him to see if he wanted to save points and stay in our vacation rental and we ended up doing a trade (my unit for a transfer of points) that worked well for both of us.

I don’t want to suggest anything that would violate Board rules, but if you are a member interested in doing a swap why not proactively contact other members posting here that seem like possible candidates? Many members include information about home resort in their signatures and from time to time there are posts such as: "We would love to visit DVC1 for Spring Break in 2010; what are our chances of booking at 7 months?" If you think a swap with that member would work, why not contact them directly by PM with the suggestion?

If you were the member receiving such an unsolicited PM, would you be uncomfortable about receiving such a contact? If such a contact a violation of DisBoard rules? If so, Moderators, please delete this post! -- Suzanne

--Suzanne

First, you are suggesting something about the Rent/Trade Board which is NOT true. Condos can be offered for trade on the Rent/Trade Board. There is no policy preventing condo owners from offering their units in trade. We have had a number of owners who have offered their condos in trade.

Without more evidence that a "swap" board would have enough traffic to warrant it's creation, it's unlikely the DIS will create such a forum. As noted a number of times in this very thread, we are talking about a service already available on the Rent/Trade Board. Thus far, I've not seen any compelling stats to suggest that a separate board would have any traffic at all and I would personally be unable to push for the creation of any such board. The decision to add another board is not mine or the other R/T mods to make.

In this very thread, at this point in the 8th page, we have 90 posts by 8 posters and the balance by a few others ... and some of those have been against any changes in the current board. The remaining posts have been made by a handful of other posters. Hardly a mandate dictated by a large number of individuals.

The Rent/Trade Board already allows "swaps" and there have been very few of those over the 10+ years I've been moderating the Rent/Trade Board. The statistics offered by this poll provide no incentive or suggestion that adding another board would accomplish anything - since most admit they didn't even know it was already a possibility (... and that stat from the poll speaks volumes all by itself). In addition, there has been no sudden influx of new Trade ("Swap") posts submitted since this poll began inspite of the "new" realization that such transactions may be accomplished using the board as it presently exists.

The Rent/Trade Board moderators have been discussing this over the past week, but please don't expect any changes in the immediate future since implementing any change would require modification to the systems already in place for that board and those that would need to make such changes are not presently available.

As for the suggestion that creating a new board would be necessary because "swap" posts would be lost on the current boards - at this time the active threads are all found on pages 1 -5 of the board and the highest number of active pages has been 7 over the past 2 years. That would not really appear to be such an obstacle to find such offers to those interested.

For those expecting any change in "marketing" - please consider that the DIS provides the Rent/Trade Board as a "Classified Ad" service - for FREE. The DIS gets no income from the rentals accomplished on the board and really has no incentive to "market" anything. (Does ANYONE believe that "Chia-Pet" ads were provided on TV and in print media without charge?) The DIS Rent/Trade Board does appear on many search engines and gets referrals from a number of other Disney sites, but any real marketing needs to come from those who are using the service. Feel free to place ads for your "swaps" on TV - how about a super bowl ad directing DVC members to your ad on the DIS?

The points raised in this thread will be discussed and some change may be made as a result, but please have patience and if anyone is truly serious about using the service already in place regarding "swapping" or trading reservations, why not use the board right now since that is already allowed.

 

[Paging Tom Morrow]

Chia-Pet anyone???

That is exactly the product I was thinking of- which is why I included the qualifier "long-term".

Last I checked, Chia-Pet just celebrated it's 25 year anniversary. That's long term.

 

[Paging Tom Morrow]

I'm not so sure that marketing is the real issue in this situation.

To me, the bottom line is

"What's in it for the DIS?"

Will making the change result in increased (NEW) traffic (revenue) for the DIS? If so, will it be enough (or grow to be enough in a reasonable time frame) to justify the additional resources required to implement and maintain?

If yes to the above, how does it stack up with other requests for resources?

What some of us are asking for requires minimal resources - simply eliminate the 30-day window for DVCers to exchange with each other. Speculative renting doesn't come into play because both owners would need to have an existing reservation for the trade to be applicable.

I see no reason why someone owning at Marriot is permitted to offer a trade at 6 months, but because I own at DVC, I am forced to wait until 30 days. Both of us want the same reservation - the only difference is the form of "payment" we are offering. Why is my payment less valuable????