SURVEY: Do you know you could swap reservations to any resort with another DVC member

[Chuck S]

Dear CarolMN,

It's definitely fine to disagree with me and I'm the first to admit that some DVC members will have no interest in a reservation exchange at all. I'm not even suggesting a new forum because I agree that would be a lot more work for our beloved moderators (you included) who we are very grateful for!

All I'm suggesting is that we look at the possibility of a few simple marketing changes on the EXISTING FORUM so that more DISboard members find out that this facility that the poll shows the majority are interested in exists.

When only 7% of the poll respondents believe that the "Trade Offered" and "Trade Wanted" treads are fine the way they are, it think it's time for some simple marketing improvements.

Best wishes,
Dave

But even if the name had always been "Swap" or some other term besides "Trade Wanted", do you honestly believe the poll would read any differently?

If they didn't take the time to understand what "Rent/Trade" means, would they have taken the time to educate themselves on what "Rent/Swap" means? Many, it seems, are still unaware that there is no true "swap", that it is simply a mutual, two way, rental. That they'd have no actual control over their own reservations.

 

[TenThousandVolts]

I just mentioned this idea to DH. I'm interested, DH is concerned about fraud. We may just be taking our chances at 7 months.

I would like to see data on just what people went for at 7 months and didn't get.

If this idea takes off, could the non-Disboarder DVCer be hurt? Someone mentioned that TUG already has something in place. Is it well used?

We do own at 5 resorts, we do own where we usually want to stay.

Bobbi

I think if it really took off in a big way it would cause even more limited availability at 7 months for everyone- Disers, non-Disers... Unless someone came up with a really excellent system to match up owners I am not too worried about it though. The option exists now and even with all of the interest that people have shown in this thread- there still aren't many/any recent trade offered/wanted posts on the rental board.

There is even a trade/transfer option on those boards which seems like a great tool for those interested in this type of transaction- yet there is still little to no activity. People who are interested should use the rent/trade board OR rent/swap board or whatever it ends up being called.

I don't see any harm in changing some of the names of boards or threads but I don't see that much reason to make changes either. Maybe a new thread title category could help those trying to use this feature- if they were using trade threads alot and there was a need to segment general trades from home resort swap trades. As it is now there are so few trade threads- that I don't see the point in segmentataion.

So far (just 2 years) I have been extremely happy with availability at 7 months and with the waitlist. However I have not tried for anything that qualifies as an extremely difficult booking- I did get my 1st choice- not my home resort- for New Years Eve- using the waitlist- it was a 6 days all-or-nothing waitlist. I guess if I kept striking out at 7 months I would be more inclined to be interested in swapping. For now, I would prefer to keep total control over my points and my reservations and try my luck at 7 months.

 

[FLYNZ4]

IThe option exists now and even with all of the interest that people have shown in this thread- there still aren't many/any recent trade offered/wanted posts on the rental board.

There is even a trade/transfer option on those boards which seems like a great tool for those interested in this type of transaction- yet there is still little to no activity.

Your arguments strike to the very core of why this suggestion is being made. Members of this forum do not know the capability exists... and the Trade/Transfer naming of the forum does not make it clear. Changing it to "Home Resort Swap Wanted" makes it crystal clear.

/Jim

 

[FLYNZ4]

In this case you are bartering one reservation for another reservation. However, you are still trading something of value to get something of value. Some people (like the IRS) consider barter transfers to be the equilvent of cash transfers. Some people won't. I would consider a barter transaction for my points - whether that barter is "I'll give you other points" or if that barter is "I'll paint your house for your points" as a rental.

Crisi,

I have bee wondering about this reply... but I have not felt qualified to comment.

We happen to be spending the weekend with two IRS auditors. We are not in a grueling audit... instead they are a husband/wife who are friends of ours spending time at at our beach condo

I asked about this and other situations. THIS IS NOT SPECIFIC TAX ADVICE, I AM NOT A TAX ACCOUNTANT, A TAX ATTORNEY, NOR DO I PLAY ONE ON TV.

I asked the following series of questions:

1) If I rented out my condo for cash, and then used the proceeds to rent-in a different condo... is the cash taxable - YES

2) If you and I did the same thing and we randomly rented each other's condo's are both of our cash transactions taxable - YES

3) If you and I did exchanged our condos... same day day, same condo type, same value etc.. simply a key swap is it a taxable transaction - NO (considered a "like exchange")

4) If you and I exchanged similar or dissimilar (within reason) condos... different time (ie:You use my 1BR in Dec, I take you 2BR in Nov) would this be a taxable event - NO (considered a "like exchange")

5) If we swapped condos as in item 4 above... but there was a cash transaction to compensate for different values... would it be a taxable transaction - YES.. the "boot" portion (ie: actual money transaction) would be taxable.

Finally... there is something called the Augusta rule... that gives an exclusion for up to a 14 day rental in certain circumstances... but alas our IRS auditor friends did not bring their tax books with them on vacation.

Once again: DO NOT USE THE ABOVE GENERAL GUIDANCE FOR YOUR SPECIFIC TAX PLANNING

/Jim

 

[Chuck S]

Crisi,

I have bee wondering about this reply... but I have not felt qualified to comment.

We happen to be spending the weekend with two IRS auditors. We are not in a grueling audit... instead they are a husband/wife who are friends of ours spending time at at our beach condo

I asked about this and other situations. THIS IS NOT SPECIFIC TAX ADVICE, I AM NOT A TAX ACCOUNTANT, A TAX ATTORNEY, NOR DO I PLAY ONE ON TV.

I asked the following series of questions:

1) If I rented out my condo for cash, and then used the proceeds to rent-in a different condo... is the cash taxable - YES

2) If you and I did the same thing and we randomly rented each other's condo's are both of our cash transactions taxable - YES

3) If you and I did exchanged our condos... same day day, same condo type, same value etc.. simply a key swap is it a taxable transaction - NO (considered a "like exchange")

4) If you and I exchanged similar or dissimilar (within reason) condos... different time (ie:You use my 1BR in Dec, I take you 2BR in Nov) would this be a taxable event - NO (considered a "like exchange")

5) If we swapped condos as in item 4 above... but there was a cash transaction to compensate for different values... would it be a taxable transaction - YES.. the "boot" portion (ie: actual money transaction) would be taxable.

Finally... there is something called the Augusta rule... that gives an exclusion for up to a 14 day rental in certain circumstances... but alas our IRS auditor friends did not bring their tax books with them on vacation.

Once again: DO NOT USE THE ABOVE GENERAL GUIDANCE FOR YOUR SPECIFIC TAX PLANNING

/Jim

Tax implications aside, the fact is it is still treated as a mutual rental by DVC, you do not have control of your reservation, the actual owner of the points maintains control.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

Tax implications aside, the fact is it is still treated as a mutual rental by DVC, you do not have control of your reservation, the actual owner of the points maintains control.

However, his post does give credence that Exchanges do in fact warrant their own posting catagory.

 

[Chuck S]

However, his post does give credence that Exchanges do in fact warrant their own posting catagory.

I don't understand your logic there, whether the IRS considers a transaction taxable or not has nothing to do with whether it needs its own forum/subforum.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

I don't understand your logic there, whether the IRS considers a transaction taxable or not has nothing to do with whether it needs its own forum/subforum.

Yes you are correct. But its only relationship to the group "rental" is DVC's reservation criteria. Exchanges are not the same as "rental"s. Just curious Chuck, it seems you have reservations about just simply moving the requests to another catagory. Can you give some reasons why this would not be a good idea?

 

[TenThousandVolts]

Your arguments strike to the very core of why this suggestion is being made. Members of this forum do not know the capability exists... and the Trade/Transfer naming of the forum does not make it clear. Changing it to "Home Resort Swap Wanted" makes it crystal clear.

/Jim

I don't think so. This thread has had over 2,000 views- Welcome Home has done a great job of enlightening people of the ability to do this on the Disboards. 80 people voted that they already knew the ability existed before this thread was created- still another 80 people didn't know about it and voted that they would like to do a swap now that they know they can trade on the Dis- so roughly just from this thread a minimum of 160 people know about this option- yet still- there seems to be no interest on the rent/trade board. Are you saying all these people are so hung up on terminology that this is why nobody is doing home resort swaps? It just doesn't make sense to me.

Again- I have nothing against creating the category and if it helps a majority of DVC owners I think it would be great. But everyone who wants to do this- can do it now- with or without a name change- so why isn't anyone doing it?

By the way- Welcome Home- can you clarify- what exactly is it that you would like to see changed- allowing a new type of thread title only? (such as home resort swap wanted: have bcv & vwl want: akv) Or renaming the whole board to rent/trade/swap board? or something else?

 

[BWV Dreamin]

I don't think so. This thread has had over 2,000 views- Welcome Home has done a great job of enlightening people of the ability to do this on the Disboards. 80 people voted that they already knew the ability existed before this thread was created- still another 80 people didn't know about it and voted that they would like to do a swap now that they know- so roughly just from this thread a minimum of 160 people know about this option- yet still- there seems to be no interest on the rent/trade board. Are you saying all these people are so hung up on terminology that this is why nobody is doing home resort swaps? It just doesn't make sense to me.

Again- I have nothing against creating the category and if it helps a majority of DVC owners I think it would be great. But everyone who wants to do this- can do it now- with or without a name change- so why isn't anyone doing it?

By the way- Welcome Home- can you clarify- what exactly is it that you would like to see changed- allowing a new type of thread title only? (such as home resort swap wanted: have bcv & vwl want: akv) Or renaming the whole board to rent/trade/swap board? or something else?

Hi there Cheapmom! Lets see if I can give any clarification...I no way am speaking for anyone else but myself. The reason this poll was started is that I orginally posted a thread about are we allowed to do home resort exchanges on Disboards, as I didn't see any requests over at the Rent/Trade boards. Several people posted that this does exist, and is posted on the Rent/Trade boards. I made the request to simply create some type of different catagories for exchanges/swaps, in that these requests are also intermingled with "rental" requests, and are not easily viewable. I would like to be able to see them all in one catagory, not with other requests. The terminology "trade" seems confusing in that it leads people to believe "trade points", "transfer points". Rental implies "pay me money for points or a reservation". Exchange, in my opinion, does not fit these catagories, and the rules for exchanges may also not completely fit the existing "rental" and "trade" rules. Having a separate catagory for all DVC owners to see, not having to sift thru the "other" requests, and having an area that you can easily reference, even with old requests. Anything else that would be integrated within the "sub-forum" is up to the mods. All the poll is asking is are people aware that this option exists, and if so, would you be interested inparticipating with it. I don't know any other way of explaining this, hopefully this answers some peoples questions.

 

[Chuck S]

Yes you are correct. But its only relationship to the group "rental" is DVC's reservation criteria. Exchanges are not the same as "rental"s. Just curious Chuck, it seems you have reservations about just simply moving the requests to another catagory. Can you give some reasons why this would not be a good idea?

I have my doubts that there would be enough successful trades to warrant a separate forum/subforum. And as Caskbill said, it would take moderator time, and a rewrite of automated rent/trade check program, when the ability to post trades already exists and isn't being used.

As far as the trade posts dropping off the front page, according to the rules, renters/traders have to bump their posts anyway...it wouldn't be any different on a new forum or sub-forum.

If people that want to trade/swap aren;t even trying the existing infrastructure, why would yo believe a new subforum would be? And how would you keep a swap forum from morphing into a cash rental forum? If someone sees a "swap wanted, wish 1 bedroom BCV Dec 8 to 14, will trade SSR (or whatever home resort)" type post, do you really believe people wouldn't say "I can get you BCV, but you'll need to pay cash, I don't want to trade to your home resort."

 

[BWV Dreamin]

I have my doubts that there would be enough successful trades to warrant a separate forum/subforum. And as Caskbill said, it would take moderator time, and a rewrite of automated rent/trade check program, when the ability to post trades already exists and isn't being used.
As far as the trade posts dropping off the front page, according to the rules, renters/traders have to bump their posts anyway...it wouldn't be any different on a new forum or sub-forum.

If people that want to trade/swap aren;t even trying the existing infrastructure, why would yo believe a new subforum would be? And how would you keep a swap forum from morphing into a cash rental forum? If someone sees a "swap wanted, wish 1 bedroom BCV Dec 8 to 14, will trade SSR type post, do you really believe people wouldn't say "I can get you BCV, but you'll need to pay cash, I don't want to trade to SSR."

Ok, your wearing me out Chuck! Let me try to address some of your comments:!) Doubts about enough successful trades with the new sub-forum.There are already posts that people can't find the requests, maybe why people aren't having any luck with their posts.2).A forum already exists, isn't being usesd.See answer #1. 3). If people aren't swapping with the existing forum, why would they with the new?"]COLOR="Blue"]Maybe there is a problem with the current exchange format. COLOR[]4). How can you keep a swap from becoming a cash rental forum?[/COLOR]Not sure what this means, but if they want to Rent, they would need to post on the other rent/trade forum.

This is not rocket science folks. This is just about a simple request for a location move. Plain and simple.

 

[Chuck S]

[/B]
There are already posts that people can't find the requests, maybe why people aren't having any luck with their posts. Maybe there is a problem with the current exchange format.

OK, if people would bump their post as they are supposed to (and they would need to do so in a new forum as well) why wouldn't people be able to find them?

Not sure what this means, but if they want to Rent, they would need to post on the other rent/trade forum.

It means exactly that. If there were a Swap Wanted post, say I posted I would like a BWV 1 bedroom Dec 8 to 15, I will trade a reservation at OKW (my home resort), how would you, other than moderator time, prevent someone from replying that they have the BWV points, and can make the my reservation, but they dont want OKW, they want cash. People wanting to rent their points for cash would likely be cruising both forums, wouldn't they? How would you maintain the new forum exclusively for swaps?

Now, if you locked all threads daily, it would prevent those unwanted replies, and people could contact each other by PM only. Sort of like a newspaper ad. That would work. But then you'd have the problem of an OP not being able to bump their post, or stating whether there was an agreement made. But that may actually work, with the posts simply being deleted at the 7 month window (since the trade would be pointless then.)

 

[crisi]

Crisi,

I have bee wondering about this reply... but I have not felt qualified to comment.

We happen to be spending the weekend with two IRS auditors. We are not in a grueling audit... instead they are a husband/wife who are friends of ours spending time at at our beach condo

I asked about this and other situations. THIS IS NOT SPECIFIC TAX ADVICE, I AM NOT A TAX ACCOUNTANT, A TAX ATTORNEY, NOR DO I PLAY ONE ON TV.

I asked the following series of questions:

1) If I rented out my condo for cash, and then used the proceeds to rent-in a different condo... is the cash taxable - YES

2) If you and I did the same thing and we randomly rented each other's condo's are both of our cash transactions taxable - YES

3) If you and I did exchanged our condos... same day day, same condo type, same value etc.. simply a key swap is it a taxable transaction - NO (considered a "like exchange")

4) If you and I exchanged similar or dissimilar (within reason) condos... different time (ie:You use my 1BR in Dec, I take you 2BR in Nov) would this be a taxable event - NO (considered a "like exchange")

5) If we swapped condos as in item 4 above... but there was a cash transaction to compensate for different values... would it be a taxable transaction - YES.. the "boot" portion (ie: actual money transaction) would be taxable.

Finally... there is something called the Augusta rule... that gives an exclusion for up to a 14 day rental in certain circumstances... but alas our IRS auditor friends did not bring their tax books with them on vacation.

Once again: DO NOT USE THE ABOVE GENERAL GUIDANCE FOR YOUR SPECIFIC TAX PLANNING

/Jim

From my understanding, that is right - a mutual exchange of equal valued goods would not be taxable - barter for services would be (if I give you a $100 bill and you give me two fifties, the IRS doesn't see that as a taxable exchange either). But the concept I was trying to get across is that barter situation are an exchange of value - it may not be money - but just because it isn't money doesn't keep it from being a rental.

 

[FLYNZ4]

Again- I have nothing against creating the category and if it helps a majority of DVC owners I think it would be great. But everyone who wants to do this- can do it now- with or without a name change- so why isn't anyone doing it?

We have a very basic marketing problem... and as a director of marketing in one of the most successful companies on the planet... I feel that I have enough experience to comment on effective marketing programs

Let's assume that you own a butcher shop... with great products... and the sign above your store says "Dead Animals For Sale". You might wonder why your business is suffering... despite the fact that you have high quality meats, great personal butcher skills, and an advertising program (sign) that accurately descibes your business. I would suggest that bringing in a marketing consultant to analyze your biz issues might be a good investment... and people who would other walk right past your store might actually stand in line to give you their biz.

/Jim

 

[FLYNZ4]

From my understanding, that is right - a mutual exchange of equal valued goods would not be taxable - barter for services would be (if I give you a $100 bill and you give me two fifties, the IRS doesn't see that as a taxable exchange either). But the concept I was trying to get across is that barter situation are an exchange of value - it may not be money - but just because it isn't money doesn't keep it from being a rental.

But according to my friends... who have MUCH more experience in IRS auditing than I have... say that the situation described here (a home resort swap) would NOT be considered a rental... it would be a like exchange. Only the "boot" (their terminology, not mine) would be taxable... if in fact any actual funds were transfered to compensate for unlike values.

Again... the same disclaimer holds: DO NOT USE THIS ADVICE FOR YOUR SPECIFIC TAX PLANNING.

/Jim

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

I find the rent/trade board to be a little overwhelming whenever I've looked at it - it can have a lot of activity that is greatly directed at DVC owners/non-DVC owners who are looking to rent or rent from.

I could see myself thinking about staying at BCV for my VWL points and checking out the new thread now and then to see if anybody else had a reciprocal request.

Not getting into naming semantics, or even exactly how each individual would handle the final transaction (b/c as I see it even rentals aren't necessarily that straight forward and have some leeway between the two parties) I think a separate forum IS something that would be helpful to accomplish an exchange/swap or whatever you want to call it 'cuz I think we do all understand what is meant. It would give 1 place for a person to go who was interested that isn't cluttered by other transaction types. It probably will have less activity but does that really matter if it's serving a purpose? Wouldn't it make it easier to moderate?

The main reason I think it's important to separate out is b/c it's going to take a particular match - ie, VWL for BCV.....or OKW for either BWV or AKV and that will probably require more and easier viewing opportunities. Bumping up will only clutter the rent/trade boards more and IMO would end up reducing the likelyhood of a match. You can probably go to the rent/trade boards and on the front page find someone looking to rent points at every resort. Then you have to get into whether you want to or can work something out. The search engine could help w/a swap, but just isn't reliable thus a need to separate.

I also see a difference in doing a swap as opposed to renting points b/c it would be essentially wrapping 2 transactions into one.

 

[WelcomeHome]

By the way- Welcome Home- can you clarify- what exactly is it that you would like to see changed- allowing a new type of thread title only? (such as home resort swap wanted: have bcv & vwl want: akv) Or renaming the whole board to rent/trade/swap board? or something else?

There are 2 changes I'd like to see:

1) Better MARKETING of this facility so that all DISboard members know that there is an arena where they can exchange home reservations with other DVC members.

2) A simple LISTING of the home resort reservations people would like to exchange (very similar to the "Direct Exchange" listing on TUG). This could even be done in lieu of the existing "Trade Wanted" or Trade Offered" threads - whatever way our hard working moderators decide would be efficient and effective.

I would suggest that it would be the poster's responsibility to "close" their thread immediately after each successful match is found (just like on the present rental threads). I also think these "Home Resort Swap" threads should be kept separate from the fast-moving, high-volume rental threads via either a well marketed sub-forum OR whatever way would NOT create excessive or additional work for our beloved moderators.

I'll leave it up to our very wise moderators to make those decisions - I hope that answers your question of exactly what I'd like to see changed. I also believe that the poll results and the highly charged debate on this issue indicates these changes would be beneficial to many DISboard members.

Sincere best wishes,
Dave

 

[crisi]

But according to my friends... who have MUCH more experience in IRS auditing than I have... say that the situation described here (a home resort swap) would NOT be considered a rental... it would be a like exchange. Only the "boot" (their terminology, not mine) would be taxable... if in fact any actual funds were transfered to compensate for unlike values.

Again... the same disclaimer holds: DO NOT USE THIS ADVICE FOR YOUR SPECIFIC TAX PLANNING.

/Jim

We are cross talking - I was only bringing up the fact that money in an exchange is not the determination of if value has been exchanged. The IRS does not consider money the defining characteristic of value received. This is independent of the word "rental." The board itself is called the "rent/trade" board - in acknowledgment that these kinds of transactions may not be seen as rentals.

 

[TenThousandVolts]

We have a very basic marketing problem... and as a director of marketing in one of the most successful companies on the planet... I feel that I have enough experience to comment on effective marketing programs

Let's assume that you own a butcher shop... with great products... and the sign above your store says "Dead Animals For Sale". You might wonder why your business is suffering... despite the fact that you have high quality meats, great personal butcher skills, and an advertising program (sign) that accurately descibes your business. I would suggest that bringing in a marketing consultant to analyze your biz issues might be a good investment... and people who would other walk right past your store might actually stand in line to give you their biz.

/Jim

SAT question:
Trade is to Home Resort Swap
as
A. dead animal is to steak