Suggestions needed -- 1st DSLR

[MIDisFan]

I am looking for some suggestions on camera/lenses combinations.

I found a good deal on the EOS 30d older kit with the 18-55 lens for $1099 from a reputable dealer. I would prefer to get this camera over the Nikon D80 or the Xti, but this will limit my budget for lenses.

I would like to get nice shots of Spectro, Fantasmic, Castle at night and other low light situations for our upcoming trip as well as everyday shots of my children and such.

My dilemma is that I would like to stay under $1600 total. So excluding the kit lens and also a 50mm 1.8 what other lens or lenses would you suggest with a $500 budget.

Or would I be better off dropping down to the Xti and buying better lenses?

I know there are a lot of "Help me decide" threads but any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

 

[MarkBarbieri]

If it were me, I'd want to add something on the long end. For $500 in the Canon family, that's the 70-300 f/4-5.6 IS or the 70-200 f/4 L. I'd much rather have the latter for the extra aperture and the better image quality. Others prefer the longer reach and the IS of the former.

 

[MIDisFan]

Thank you Mark. I would prefer better image quality over reach. I'm not sure how much of factor not having the IS will hurt me. I have only used P&S so that has never been a factor.

So you think it would be better to stick with the 30D as opposed to going with the Xti and better lenses?

 

[Groucho]

I think a good question is, how did you come to consider those two? You've stated a budget - did you come up with this budget, then decide that this is the most camera you can get for that budget? Is there a reason that the XT (or 20D which is still being sold some places) wasn't considered and that? Is there a specific feature of the 30D that you want that is missing on the XTi? What is it that you don't like about the D80? Have you considered the Sony Alpha or Pentax K10D?

No one DSLR is perfect for anyone. I know that generally, most Canon fans much prefer the 30D over the XTi, but the XTi with a quality fast short-zoom lens will almost certainly take better photos than a 30D with the kit lens. The $350 you save may really help in the lens department.

You can also compare prices... if the dealer is local, you might save a decent pile of bucks buying online. Beach has the 30D alone for $1,043, which with free shipping and no tax, might be a better deal.

Ultimately, IMHO, I think it's better to decide what you need first, rather than starting with a budget and deciding to fill it. $1,600 is a lot of money to spend on a first DSLR, when you're never used an SLR before.

 

[MIDisFan]

I think a good question is, how did you come to consider those two? What is it that you don't like about the D80? Have you considered the Sony Alpha or Pentax K10D?

Groucho, I originally considered the D80, Xti, and 30D based on reviews on DPreview and also on CNet. DPreview also led me to look at the Sony and the Pentax. I am not a big fan of Sony cameras, but I love their camcorders. To be honest, I don't understand a lot of the features of the Cameras. I mostly used the comparison charts on DPreview. While other brands seem to have more features most of the reviews lean towards the Canons for picture quality and low light performance. So that is how I narrowed it down to the Xti and 30D.

No one DSLR is perfect for anyone. I know that generally, most Canon fans much prefer the 30D over the XTi, but the XTi with a quality fast short-zoom lens will almost certainly take better photos than a 30D with the kit lens. The $350 you save may really help in the lens department.

Thank you so much, this answers an important question. I wasn't sure which would be the better way to go. I think I would be better off getting the Xti and better lens. A have never had a problem with a Canon camera, so I wouldn't mind being tied into that brand in the future due to the lenses.

You can also compare prices... if the dealer is local, you might save a decent pile of bucks buying online. Beach has the 30D alone for $1,043, which with free shipping and no tax, might be a better deal.

The price of $1099 was from Newegg.com, whom i've been dealing with for several years and have a good relationship with. I know the kit 18-55 lens isn't that great but it is only about a $50 difference.

Ultimately, IMHO, I think it's better to decide what you need first, rather than starting with a budget and deciding to fill it. $1,600 is a lot of money to spend on a first DSLR, when you're never used an SLR before.

I completely agree. My budget was based on the price of the 30D($1100) plus $500 for a lens. Since this will be my first SLR, I don't know what I need. As I stated in my original post, I would like to be able to get nice shots in low light situations at Disney such as Spectro, and Fantasmic in addition to everyday activities of my children. Which lens or lenses would you recommend for these type of shots?

And thank you Groucho, your questions have actually given me a lot of answers!

 

[MarkBarbieri]

You might want to look at this thread. It's advice to a Canon user with a really nice set of lenses on which to use for what.

 

[MIDisFan]

You might want to look at this thread. It's advice to a Canon user with a really nice set of lenses on which to use for what.

I looked at this thread earlier today because these are the same shots I would like to get.

So do you think a 24-70, 70-200 and the 50 1.8 would get me started in the right direction if I bought a body only Xti? Does the 18-55 with the kit ever come in handy?

 

[MarkBarbieri]

I think that the Canon 24-70 f/2.8 and the Canon 70-200 f/4 make for a killer combination at WDW. Keep in mind that they are $1,100 and $560 respectively. That's a good chunk of change. If that doesn't scare you off, think about upgrading the 70-200 to an f/2.8 with IS. That boosts the price another $1,000.

 

[ukcatfan]

Groucho, I originally considered the D80, Xti, and 30D based on reviews on DPreview and also on CNet. DPreview also led me to look at the Sony and the Pentax. I am not a big fan of Sony cameras, but I love their camcorders. To be honest, I don't understand a lot of the features of the Cameras. I mostly used the comparison charts on DPreview. While other brands seem to have more features most of the reviews lean towards the Canons for picture quality and low light performance. So that is how I narrowed it down to the Xti and 30D.

Based on this, I believe that you should take a step back and learn a little more about the features and how to use them before deciding on a brand and model. Based just on picture quality and low light performance, pretty much any DSLR with a APS-C sensor will fit that bill as long as the right lenses are used. Just in the Canons alone, you will hardly see any differences in the image quality from the Rebel XT up through the 30D. The differences in the models are the features that you say that you do not understand. Also, you should not limit all your research to one website. I do redearch at DPReview, but I find some of their advice and opinions to be erratic sometimes. You should at least read a little DCResource, Steve's Digicams, and Imaging Resource before making such a large decision.

One last piece of advice, go out and actually handle them in person. I personally was sold on getting a Rebel XT before I actually went out and handled it and I hated it. My second choice was the Nikon D50, which felt much better in my hand, but then I came upon the Pentax and realized that I could get a very similar feel, more features, and it cost less so that is what I got. I was not even considering it in the beginning.

Kevin

 

[Anewman]

Groucho, I originally considered the D80, Xti, and 30D based on reviews on DPreview and also on CNet. DPreview also led me to look at the Sony and the Pentax. I am not a big fan of Sony cameras, but I love their camcorders. To be honest, I don't understand a lot of the features of the Cameras. I mostly used the comparison charts on DPreview. While other brands seem to have more features most of the reviews lean towards the Canons for picture quality and low light performance. So that is how I narrowed it down to the Xti and 30D.

Without being argumentative, I for one consider the Sony A100 to be a MINOLTA. I am a lifetime Canon shooter and if I had to start from scratch today it would be the camera for me, @ $616 out the door(no rebate hassle) from Circuit City DOTCOM it is IMO the best value around.

Plus it uses the existing library of Minolta AF lenses, some of which are great for sports(which is my need).

When it comes to low light performance, yes Canon is the brand to beat when comparing HIGH ISO noise levels. BUT the gap from best to worst is MINUTE, and the Canon does not have IS as the Sony which means in some cases you could be shooting at much cleaner ISOs with the Sony anyways.

But if not CANON is great too...

 

[photo_chick]

I second the "go feel it in your hands" approach. Specs and reviews are great, but if it feels off in your hands you will not like it. And what fits one person might not be right for you. For me the Rebel line is a great fit because I have freakishly small hands. THe 30D is really big to me. If I ever upgrade it will be a jump up to a full frame sensor because if I am going to be carrying a monster in my hands it better be a big step up! I played with my FIL's Nikon D50 and it just did not feel right in my hands.

So my point is I think feel is as important as the other features when you are spending this much on a camera.

 

[Groucho]

I would also suggest looking at multiple review sites. DPReview's reputation has been going downhill lately - it doesn't mean that his reviews shouldn't automatically be trusted, but he's only one guy, and it's good to get some extra opinions no matter what you're looking at, as everyone is going to have a slightly different opinion.

For high ISO performance, Canon may have the edge but it's very, very slight, the difference is not enough that it should sway anyone's opinion IMHO. (The exception being the Olympus, which is a little worse than the others due to its smaller sensor.) Picture quality is pretty much a wash - all DSLRs are extremely good in this regard. Choosing a DSLR is more about the small details, the feel of the camera, and the lens system than image quality or noise performance IMHO.

And NewEgg is certainly a reputable dealer, no question about that.

As far as the Sony, yes it's really more of an evolved Minolta, and it sounds like they may have a higher-end DSLR coming soon if you're concerned about upgradability. Similarly, Pentax has two new DSLRs coming (at least one of which will almost certainly slot above the K10D) later this year, also.

 

[photo_chick]

And NewEgg is certainly a reputable dealer, no question about that.

Gotta love Newegg. I have had great service from them.

 

[MarkBarbieri]

I second the "go feel it in your hands" approach.

I'll third that, especially with the Rebel. It's pretty small and people tend to either love or hate the way it feels in their hands.

 

[Reminiscing_Cody]

I second the "go feel it in your hands" approach.

I'm also looking for my first DSLR before our September trip to WDW. I heard the "hands on" advice from more than one camera store employee, but I have ape hands and a limited budget. The ones that felt OK were all the "one step up" from entry level (Nikon D80, Pentax K10D, Canon 30D, etc) Compromises will have to be made, oh well.

I want image stabilization because I have seen the amazing low light & long zoom difference on the dpreview forums, but once again my budget will restrict me... much cheaper to get it in body than lens. This leaves me 3 options.. Pentax K100D, Sony A100, and the upcoming Olympus E-510. A friend told me a local shop got the Olympus E-510 today, going tomorrow in the hopes of a side by side by side comparison... anyone have experience to share with any of these? This will be my first DSLR, but I am fairly camera savvy. I took quite a few photo classes in high school, and every single feature of my P&S gets played with regularly.

 

[Master Mason]

The olympus has a smaller sensor than the others. Other than that I know little to nothing about them. The folks that have them seam to like them.

 

[ukcatfan]

I'm also looking for my first DSLR before our September trip to WDW. I heard the "hands on" advice from more than one camera store employee, but I have ape hands and a limited budget. The ones that felt OK were all the "one step up" from entry level (Nikon D80, Pentax K10D, Canon 30D, etc) Compromises will have to be made, oh well.

I want image stabilization because I have seen the amazing low light & long zoom difference on the dpreview forums, but once again my budget will restrict me... much cheaper to get it in body than lens. This leaves me 3 options.. Pentax K100D, Sony A100, and the upcoming Olympus E-510. A friend told me a local shop got the Olympus E-510 today, going tomorrow in the hopes of a side by side by side comparison... anyone have experience to share with any of these? This will be my first DSLR, but I am fairly camera savvy. I took quite a few photo classes in high school, and every single feature of my P&S gets played with regularly.

The olympus has a smaller sensor than the others. Other than that I know little to nothing about them. The folks that have them seam to like them.

It will have more noise due to the small sensor, but that small sensor also means that it is more difficult to blur the background. Also, it shoots in 4x3 ratio instead of 3x2, so you will have to crop for printing a 4x6. These are three of best things about a DSLR IMO, so I just do not understand why people like them.

As for the K100D vs. the A100, they are really different levels, so the A100 is better. It really is not that much better though, so you have to figure out if the extra features are worth the extra $$$. Image quality and noise should be too close to call between the two.

Kevin

 

[Groucho]

If the OP doesn't like some of the entry-level DSLRs due to their size, I would guess that the Olympus won't be a favorite - the reason they use a smaller sensor is to be able to have a smaller body.

The E510 is also brand new so it's likely to be expensive. The only price at Beach including the kit + a longer zoom lens for a cool $1,000 - almost $300 more than a K100D with the same setup. If they sell it with just the kit (as I'm sure they do), the price will probably still be higher than the K10D, which is definitely a higher-end camera. It'll probably take a few months for the E510 prices to fall in line with where they should be... heck, the E500 with two lenses costs less than $600!

The big "feature" of the Olympus cameras is the live view LCD, but there are compromises that you have to make (smaller and dimmer viewfinder, slow focusing when it's active, and of course, it'll chew up the batteries)... only you can decide if this is an important feature for you.

 

[MIDisFan]

Just wanted to thank everyone for their advice and suggestions. I did go into my local CC and was able to hold an Xti, D80, and 30D. They did not have the Pentax or Sony of which I have done more research on since my original post. I am leaning back towards the 30D. I prefer the feel and construction of the metal body.

Since my original post, I have been doing more research on the various lens offerings from each company. It seems as though Canon and Nikon have the better line of lenses.

I do agree with Ukcatfan about taking a step back to better understand all the features before I make a decision.

I'm sure I will have a lot more questions. Thanks again everyone.

 

[jann1033]

if i had it to do over, i would get the 30d( over the rebel xt that i got last June) since that is what i am upgrading to( depending on if and when the next model comes out)..i have the 70-200f4 which i love. so with $1600 or so in my pocket if it were me i'd get the kit you talked about( kit lens and 30d) and the 70-200f4 and the 50mm f1.8 for lower light ( under $100 last i looked)...the focus is better on the 30d, the speed is faster( 5fps vs 3), spot metering, iso up to 3200(it looks pretty good in tests i've seen and the 1600 is great imo which could help make up for the f4 vs f2.8) and probably some other things i am forgetting. then when and if i got the cash,get a better wider angle to replace the kit which is serviceable till then. that way you have a couple good lenses to start with, a good body and can add more lenses later on. while i agree somewhat about adding good lenses first before a better body, that's not 100% true imo. you really can use both and i notice most who say that already have the better body